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What is the deal with Rolex waiting lists?

whitewave

whitewave

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
12,368
So DH dropped last Night that he would like a Rolex after years of me wanting to get him one.

He wants to get a steel submariner. Retails at $8100.

We do have a jeweler where he has bought his Raymond Weil and where he bought my Cartier tank, so that will be my first shot of getting on the waiting list.

From what I am reading, it’s going to be years to get this particular watch.

Any thoughts or ideas? How I wish @Dancing Fire :(( was here.

Are any of our trusted vendors a Rolex authorized dealer?
 
You ask what's with the waiting list.
Supply and demand are obvious.
But IMO there's one more thing.

Scarcity fuels the mystique, increasing demand and "justifying" even higher prices.
Rolex knows this.

I bet they could increase supply, but they won't.
If they did lack of scarcity would reduce demand and prices.

They probably hired Ph.D math weenies to run these numbers to find the productions numbers that support the highest price.

Oh, and $8100 for no precious metals? :-o :hand:
 
whitewave said:
@kenny yes, after reading about this I told DH “this is a scam”…..
Click to expand...

It's also good business, and it is common.
We, myself especially included, are all being manipulated as much as companies can get away with.
 
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I believe this is a reputable site. I do not know much about men’s Rolex watches. They appear to be above the price you mentioned.

Shop Submariner | Exclusive Prices

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www.chrono24.com www.chrono24.com
 
I believe watch scarcity this year in particular is an issue, more than in previous years, and not just for Rolex, though Rolex is definitely the worst. My mom wanted to buy a watch this year, she had about four or five on her list (across brands) that she would’ve been happy to buy but it was near impossible to find any of them (from ADs, and she didn’t want to buy them used, or grey because of the whackadoo premium). An AD told her that supply in general across brands this year is constrained because of the pandemic.
 
This is one of @LLJsmom’s areas of expertise!
 
Yes, this is such a scam. Family member really wanted one and can finally afford one -- at the "old" price. Now the mark-up is over 100%. It's like concert tickets :roll2:.

It is an artificial market (= a racket). Buy a bunch of crappy gold Rolexes from your local AD just so you can get the call when a cool steel one comes in?!? Sheesh. We were just in a tony ski resort town for TG to visit family and ducked into a jewelry store there -- it looked like they had been robbed. Not a Rolex in sight -- just hundreds of empty slots where one may have been -- except for the odd ladies' yellow-gold-plus-diamonds something or other. They happily showed me their Omi Prive colored-stone rings without a care in the world (killing time in an empty store) but when I walked toward those empty Rolex display cases, the security guy hopped off his stool and wouldn't take his eyes off of me... :lol-2:. Really? What's my play here...? I'm gonna put one back?
 
So here's the deal. Rolexes have been in very short supply, for a variety of reasons. People with money have not been traveling during the pandemic and have just accumulated funds, and have wanted to buy Rolexes. During the early stages of the pandemic, Rolex has not been at full staff (who has) and actual number of Rolexes being churned out has decreased. Thus with supply being down and demand being up, you can imagine the Econ 101 graph, right? Of course social media and YouTube don't help. There are a zillion videos of what is going on with Rolex and you can watch and hear a dozen different opinions. Rolex is a privately held company and they can supply as much as they want, and lots of people think they are restricting supply on purpose to keep the demand up. You will find many arguments for or against that theory. Personally, I don't think that Rolex is purposely supplying less than prior years to keep the demand artificially high. I think it's doing it's best given the pandemic restrictions on how many people are manufacturing the watches. However, I don't think they feel the pressure to purposely increase production to meet the increased demand. You can see how that would require long term capital investment by the company. You need equipment and skilled craftsman, which is not something you can snap your fingers and produce overnight. And, another reason I don't think Rolex is purposely supplying less than previous years, given that production is necessarily lower given the pandemic, is because Rolex does not allow it's authorized dealers (ADs) to sell above the MSRP. If they were trying to profit as much as possible, they would try to increase production or increase their prices. And Rolex does NOT want its dealers to sell to people who they (the dealer) knows will resell the watch to make a profit. Rolex is not increasing the MSRP the way Chanel and LV have. Their price increases per year are relatively modest. I think it's expected to go up by 6% in 2022 (I may be off a couple of points) but it's NOTHING like Chanel that is increasing their classic flap bags by $1,000 a couple of times a year. Talk to any Chanel aficionado and you will get an earful. The issue is that the ADs have the power to sell to whoever they want, and there is no way to make all ADs follow a consistent protocol to determine which customer gets what watch. And ADs don't technically have any control over what they get supplied by Rolex. They can request, but no guarantee. So if they have 20 people that want a blue/black sub (Batman) and Rolex sends the AD 3 a year, how do they decide who gets it? Go by a waitlist? Is there one? Does the big spender get it? Does the one person who the AD thinks will never resell? ADs can lose their Rolex license if Rolex finds out that the AD sold and shortly there after the watch shows up on the secondary market.

And there just are not enough out there to meet all the demand. And because people want them so badly, they are willing to pay a premium, and thus we have the gray market, people who buy and then immediately sell to make a profit.

There is a lot more to discuss, so I would look up a bunch of YouTube videos and see who you want to believe and how much.

So for me, I have purchased/help purchase (not mine) 5 watches from ADs, which means I bought them at MSRP. Most were not super highly sought after models, but honestly models that were purchased to wear, NOT resell. I bought two from the gray market, at a premium, and I had to decide how much above MSRP I was willing to go. I paid 17% above MSRP for my own watch, (in the luxury watch thread) and 31.7% above MSRP for one for my husband. I honestly am fine with what I paid because I have always loved Rolexes and it's the only watch I have worn in the past 25 years. I need to go up in size due to deteriorating vision :lol: and I was ready for a new model. I can say with honesty that I am perfectly fine with the prices I paid because I look at the absolute value of the what I am paying. They are going to be forever watches for me and my husband, and if these prices were what the ADs were charging, I would have been happy to pay them. They just weren't available. And I went gray because I did not want to wait until I could get the exact configuration for the datejust I wanted, and I did NOT want my husband to wait to MAYBE get an Explorer II in a few years. I wanted him to enjoy it now, and the premium I paid is worth it.

So the people that are so angry with the prices in the gray market definitely should not buy. (I actually wouldn't mind if Rolex increased the prices more. It would kill part of the gray market and decrease demand, which would make more models available at an AD. I feel this way only because I think they are worth higher prices. But I know this is a highly unpopular opinion.) And as an FYI, the prices in the gray market vary HUGELY. If you go to Chrono24, which is a market place for many resellers to sell, you will see a huge range of pricing for the exact same model. So options are there. Research and choose wisely, and communicate with those resellers. If you or anyone is interested in what I did to get comfortable with buying in the gray market, I posted about it in another thread.

Calling LLJsmom :)

I Stan this entire thread. PS at its best. So nice of you @mrs-b The Rolex world can be challenging to navigate. It’s nice to have peeps to share and gripe with. LOL! My experience with watch forums is quite different from PS. KWIM? Harder to get info from them, generally speaking.
www.pricescope.com
 
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I haven't tried to buy a Rolex recently, but my friend's hobby are those watches in the same vein that many Psers research ideal cut diamonds. Have talked about it with him a few times.

Prices have hiked and demand is higher than ever. However the European market it very different from the US and Asian markets (generally less cash around for discretionary spending, but higher overall social security network for everyone, frowning upon outward displays of wealth).

So, I've said it before: He's adamant one can get a many models that aren't available outside Europe from a Swiss or Euro AD.
Geographical proximity is the first reason.

I think FedEx secure overnight shipping is 150$ fully insured. You might get 18% VAT back in Europe and that largely sets off any duties you might have to pay in the US. Why don't you explore those routes more ? That's what I'd do instead of buying preloved for more than new prices... And yes, maybe one has to phone many stores etc etc, but there's a lot of research that goes into the internet hunt too.

If you have a Euro friend who's gut a relationship with a an AD: that will work even better.... (I don't know one, if I were to buy I'd use my friend's family jeweler).

What I've noticed as second reason is that in Europe people are more of the opinion: if I give you my hard earned cash, I'd like to be treated with respect. And running after certain "hyped" or LE edition items doesn't cause the same buying frenzy. LE make-up items, bags etc often don't sell out in a blink.
Hermès bags are absolutely out if reach/not a priority for the vast majority of people ( high RE prices, mandatory retirement fund and mandatory health insurance limit your "fun " funds a lot). So when one walks into Chanel or Hermes as a "local" they don't give you the: " oh, you need to buy 10000 things you don't need in order to be "offered" this and that bag. You get a sensible answer (I'm sorry I don't know, but my manager makes the orders for our boutique, I'll ask her what she has ordered in... Mmmh... We're getting deliveries next week's, I'll call you) and if you'd like you get on a wait list and then you get a call. Same has happened for friends who bought Rolexes.
 
Thank you, everyone.

Yes, I have read it’s easier to get one in the EU. No, I don’t know anyone in the EU.

I’m over this big time. My attitude is that I am a fully formed human adult and I don’t want to play the game.

DH, however, is excited by this game lol and sees it as proof of exclusivity and holding value.

I’d rather he switch to an Omega Seamaster planet Ocean, which he does like.

It’s his choice. He works hard for his money so he should get what he wants. The issue is, the AD is in the (high end) mall in greater New Orleans, and I would likely have to be the one to drive hours to get there and pick it up. I’m thinking how am I going to get out there and not get robbed the minute I pick it up. (Sadly, I’m serious).
 
whitewave said:
Thank you, everyone.

Yes, I have read it’s easier to get one in the EU. No, I don’t know anyone in the EU.

I’m over this big time. My attitude is that I am a fully formed human adult and I don’t want to play the game.

DH, however, is excited by this game lol and sees it as proof of exclusivity and holding value.

I’d rather he switch to an Omega Seamaster planet Ocean, which he does like.

It’s his choice. He works hard for his money so he should get what he wants. The issue is, the AD is in the (high end) mall in greater New Orleans, and I would likely have to be the one to drive hours to get there and pick it up. I’m thinking how am I going to get out there and not get robbed the minute I pick it up. (Sadly, I’m serious).
Click to expand...

I'm in the EU, if you want to contact me , I'll put up a LT listing...
 
kipari said:
I'm in the EU, if you want to contact me , I'll put up a LT listing...
Click to expand...

Thanks. Let me think about it (I truly appreciate it… I want to discuss with DH first and he just went to work).

I found a 2018 submariner back face no date (what he wants) in Frisco, Tx with box and papers for $12,700 lol

He is going to Nola today, so he is probably going to scope out the AD and see what’s what.

We have 2 sons, so he is also open to getting a more available model and then getting a submariner later and then he can leave each son a Rolex when he dies.
 
Actually, my friend is in Florence right now, so I sent her a FB message that if she goes into a jewelry store, to scope out the situation lol.
 
kipari said:
I haven't tried to buy a Rolex recently, but my friend's hobby are those watches in the same vein that many Psers research ideal cut diamonds. Have talked about it with him a few times.

Prices have hiked and demand is higher than ever. However the European market it very different from the US and Asian markets (generally less cash around for discretionary spending, but higher overall social security network for everyone, frowning upon outward displays of wealth).

So, I've said it before: He's adamant one can get a many models that aren't available outside Europe from a Swiss or Euro AD.
Geographical proximity is the first reason.

I think FedEx secure overnight shipping is 150$ fully insured. You might get 18% VAT back in Europe and that largely sets off any duties you might have to pay in the US. Why don't you explore those routes more ? That's what I'd do instead of buying preloved for more than new prices... And yes, maybe one has to phone many stores etc etc, but there's a lot of research that goes into the internet hunt too.

If you have a Euro friend who's gut a relationship with a an AD: that will work even better.... (I don't know one, if I were to buy I'd use my friend's family jeweler).

What I've noticed as second reason is that in Europe people are more of the opinion: if I give you my hard earned cash, I'd like to be treated with respect. And running after certain "hyped" or LE edition items doesn't cause the same buying frenzy. LE make-up items, bags etc often don't sell out in a blink.
Hermès bags are absolutely out if reach/not a priority for the vast majority of people ( high RE prices, mandatory retirement fund and mandatory health insurance limit your "fun " funds a lot). So when one walks into Chanel or Hermes as a "local" they don't give you the: " oh, you need to buy 10000 things you don't need in order to be "offered" this and that bag. You get a sensible answer (I'm sorry I don't know, but my manager makes the orders for our boutique, I'll ask her what she has ordered in... Mmmh... We're getting deliveries next week's, I'll call you) and if you'd like you get on a wait list and then you get a call. Same has happened for friends who bought Rolexes.
Click to expand...

I can believe that the EU is supplied more. When I look on chrono24 there are lots of sellers from European countries. But who knows. I don’t know anyone in the EU. I do know some people that have traveled recently and they did not have any luck but who knows the circumstances.
 
The thing is, DH is perfectly willing to wait a year or two on a AD list before he gets one.

This is his ideal one:

CD90A5BB-45A4-467A-9EF6-580D8B98718F.jpeg

He does want to go try on a few to make sure it’s what he wants.
 
whitewave said:
Thanks. Let me think about it (I truly appreciate it… I want to discuss with DH first and he just went to work).

I found a 2018 submariner back face no date (what he wants) in Frisco, Tx with box and papers for $12,700 lol

He is going to Nola today, so he is probably going to scope out the AD and see what’s what.

We have 2 sons, so he is also open to getting a more available model and then getting a submariner later and then he can leave each son a Rolex when he dies.
Click to expand...

That’s not a bad idea. Your sons may appreciate a Rolex from their father and datejusts or other less desired models are great classic watches that work in every scenario. I plan to get one for my son as well. It is a pain when ADs are not close by. Good luck to your DH and hope it works out with the AD. And yeah, most ADs now have exhibition pieces for people to try on at least. Hope the AD has this model.
 
LLJsmom said:
That’s not a bad idea. Your sons may appreciate a Rolex from their father and datejusts or other less desired models are great classic watches that work in every scenario. I plan to get one for my son as well. It is a pain when ADs are not close by. Good luck to your DH and hope it works out with the AD. And yeah, most ADs now have exhibition pieces for people to try on at least. Hope the AD has this model.
Click to expand...

I’m going to be in and out for the next month, so I’ll keep you all posted if I happen to go and I’ll take pics if I try any on.
 
kipari said:
I'm in the EU, if you want to contact me , I'll put up a LT listing...
Click to expand...

May I also contact you? I am after a Patek. Would be so grateful if you could help please. I am not in any rush. But it is so impossible to buy here.
 
whitewave said:
I’m going to be in and out for the next month, so I’ll keep you all posted if I happen to go and I’ll take pics if I try any on.
Click to expand...

Could I possibly ask you to have a look at Patek Nautilus please? Only if you have time. Thank you.
 
Phoenix said:
May I also contact you? I am after a Patek. Would be so grateful if you could help please. I am not in any rush. But it is so impossible to buy here.
Click to expand...

Of course! Do you still have my email somewhere?
 
I'll have a look in my email account, sometimes old emails get deleted, sometimes they don't.... I never know why:lol-2:
 
kipari said:
I'll have a look in my email account, sometimes old emails get deleted, sometimes they don't.... I never know why:lol-2:
Click to expand...

Thank you.:kiss2:
 
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