What kind of stone might this be?

[ILoveGems14]

Could It be a Swiss Blue Topaz???

 

[Marlow]

In my opinion - NO!!!

Google some swiss blue topaz - not the color of this gem in the ring.

And I think lilmosun has enough experience - she knows how a swiss, sky or london blue topaz looks like ....

 

[lilmosun]

Laughing...I didn't realize how little I knew until I came here. Now I am questioning everything I own But no...it doesn't look remotely close to any blue topaz I've seen.

 

[lilmosun]

I don't think the stone is apatite. From the picture 2 distinct colors are shown along each axis. You won't see this this with apatite, not with the eye you would need a dichroscope, and then it would be week. Looks much more like tourmaline. For there record, both are DR not SR.

Hi PrecisionGem - are you referring to the ring in question with the larger stone?

My jeweler took the ring to one of his colleagues from Brazil - he told him it wasn't from Brazil (which we all deduced) but likely from Africa or Afghanistan. I told him that as long as it was a tourmaline, I was fine given the setting was 18K so I wasn't paying a lot (relatively speaking) for the stone. My jeweler agreed to a full refund if it wasn't a tourmaline. However, he didn't want to size it until I was sure I was going to keep it (since he does it for free).

If my only concern is verifying that it is tourmaline, not apatite - what should I do? I could purchase a chelsea filter but prefer someone who knows what they are looking for. Sending it AGL seems overkill given I don't care about country of origin. How do I find someone local who would definitely know the difference?

Here's a side view for what its worth.

 

[minousbijoux]

My vote is your suggestion of an AGL brief for $75. You will get a good sense of what it is and you will not need to unmount it. $75 is not a lot to pay for piece of mind.

 

[lilmosun]

My vote is your suggestion of an AGL brief for $75. You will get a good sense of what it is and you will not need to unmount it. $75 is not a lot to pay for piece of mind.

Thanks - I may do that. I just wish I knew a good gemologist who knows colored stones (I am in the suburbs west of Boston) to save the hassle and risk of mailing.

 

[Starzin]

So... did you find out anything further?

 

[lilmosun]

So... did you find out anything further?

Funny you should ask. I actually got a call from the AGL today (just got around to send my ring in 1 1/2 weeks ago). The guys asks "Do you know what this stone is?" I reply "I'm hoping its a Tourmaline". He said "Well, its a PARAIBA Tourmaline".

I was admittedly stunned because it doesn't glow like my smaller ones. But he said that while it wasn't windex-blue, its a nice stone and the color is definitely due to copper.

So that is the answer. I won't get the report for awhile as I had to upgrade to a Prestige report. He said that because paraiba's require more analysis/tests, the don't offer gem briefs for them.

While its not the valuable neon-type, I think the price was better than okay

I guess I owe my jeweler an apology for telling him it couldn't be a Paraiba

 

[Starzin]

See.... fairy stories do come true! Congratulations and wear it in good health. Now. What are you going to tell your poor seller?

 

[sparkleismyfavcolor]

Congratulations on a great find!

What a cool thread/story with a happy ending! Love when we get to hear how things turn out.

 

[lilmosun]

Thanks so much...admittedly it was a nice surprise.

I had actually convinced myself that buying the ring was crazy because even if it was a beautiful ring and a decent buy, the setting was too high so I'd be afraid to wear it without damaging the stone

The AGL guy who called me seemed so excited about telling me. Probably because I wrote "green/blue stone" in the description

Now I am guessing further testing might show its from Mozambique like Marlow suggested it could be...which still sounds like it went from being a good price to a deal of sorts.

 

[T L]

Thanks so much...admittedly it was a nice surprise.

I had actually convinced myself that buying the ring was crazy because even if it was a beautiful ring and a decent buy, the setting was too high so I'd be afraid to wear it without damaging the stone

The AGL guy who called me seemed so excited about telling me. Probably because I wrote "green/blue stone" in the description

Now I am guessing further testing might show its from Mozambique like Marlow suggested it could be...which still sounds like it went from being a good price to a deal of sorts.

That's a nice story, enjoy your ring.

 

[pregcurious]

Nice! Congratulations!

 

[Marlow]

WOW!!! Glad for you - a nice clarity and size for a cuprian tourmaline - top deal!!!

 

[minousbijoux]

Yay! That is awesome news. The one thing that strikes me as odd is that the AGL guy called it a "Paraiba." I mean, I know that some call all copper bearing tourmalines, no matter origin, paraibas, but AGL? I thought they would be more discriminating and keep the Paraiba term for the real deal Brazilian stones. Live and learn.

 

[Marlow]

Yay! That is awesome news. The one thing that strikes me as odd is that the AGL guy called it a "Paraiba." I mean, I know that some call all copper bearing tourmalines, no matter origin, paraibas, but AGL? I thought they would be more discriminating and keep the Paraiba term for the real deal Brazilian stones. Live and learn.

You are right in my opinion - same with russian ( real chromegreen) demantoid and chrome bearing andradite ( Russia produces both) from
Namibia or Madagascar ( grayish yellowgreen ). The difference is more extreme then in "Paraibas" and copper bearing elbaite....

Maybe another topic...

 

[lilmosun]

My apologies as I didn't post the whole conversation...just the beginning. He seemed confused by my assessment of "no neon" saying "well if you mean its not windex blue" and rattled off some number about the chrome which meant nothing to me. After I agreed to upgrade the service, he said they needed more testing and I had at least what they called "pariaba-type". I do think AGL will differentiate on the report. I also realized the first level of prestige doesn't give origin. I realize it's not a rare find that gets folks excites..but given my concerns about apatite and the price, I am more than happy I gave it a shot.

 

[lilmosun]

I meant copper, not chrome lol..

 

[digdeep]

This IS an adventure and I suspect that the ring would not have lasted 10 minutes online with the word 'paraiba' from AGL attached to it...........you've 'done good' and thanks for the vicarious adventure! Anything is possible and it is a beautiful ring!!

 

[minousbijoux]

My apologies as I didn't post the whole conversation...just the beginning. He seemed confused by my assessment of "no neon" saying "well if you mean its not windex blue" and rattled off some number about the chrome which meant nothing to me. After I agreed to upgrade the service, he said they needed more testing and I had at least what they called "pariaba-type". I do think AGL will differentiate on the report. I also realized the first level of prestige doesn't give origin. I realize it's not a rare find that gets folks excites..but given my concerns about apatite and the price, I am more than happy I gave it a shot.

Oh no, I'm sorry if I gave you the impression that this is not a great find because I think it is a great find! Many of us would like to find a beautiful copper bearing tourmaline in a beautiful setting for the price of an apatite! I love stories like this - you deserve your happy ending because clearly you have a good eye.

 

[chrono]

Congrats on the positive outcome! I think it can certainly be labeled a Paraiba-type but I would raise my eyebrows if AGL called it a Paraiba.

 

[Starzin]

After I agreed to upgrade the service, he said they needed more testing and I had at least what they called "pariaba-type". I do think AGL will differentiate on the report. I also realized the first level of prestige doesn't give origin. I realize it's not a rare find that gets folks excites..but given my concerns about apatite and the price, I am more than happy I gave it a shot.

It's my understanding that AGL now put the comment we've all seen "this type of stone may be called Paraiba by the trade" on any copper bearing tourmaline. There was a thread announcing it somewhere... that this was a new policy.

If you haven't asked for origin then that will be the game-changer - that it's Paraiba, Brazil. However I don't know if AGL specify Paraiba and not Brazil as origin. Anything that comes from Brazil and is copper bearing gets the P label these days so it would be nice if AGL actually made a differentiation. If they lump them all together, why shouldn't the vendors?

 

[lilmosun]

I am curious to see what more they will provide on the report given they said I had to upgrade and didn't have the option of a gem brief as more testing was required.

I hesitated approving the upgraded report because the only reason I sent it in was to make sure it was a tourmaline and not apatite. He already determined the color was due to copper and not iron - so I had all the information (and more than) I wanted and it's not like I wanted the paperwork so I could sell. I think heat treated is a given. I only paid $2K for the ring and it's obvious that it doesn't have the desirable neon-Paraiba - so the cost to determine country of origin doesn't make sense.

Been doing some reading...it seems like "paraiba type" refers to copper, color and saturation - so does the designation at least suggest its a better quality colored cuprian tourmaline? Also it seems like some labs consider country of origin testing automatic for a paraiba/type stone but may leave reporting it optional. So perhaps I will still find that out?

As an FYI I'm fine with the comments about it not being a "Paraiba" in the valuable sense...no offense taken and expected. I just didn't want anyone questioning AGL based on a verbal conversation. As I said, I think the guy was just excited about telling me that it wasn't just some ordinary "green" stone based on the description I wrote. I bet they are probably more used to giving folks bad news. He did mention "paraiba-type" at the end so I expect the report will include that clarification.

Finding an affordable (for me) paraiba has been a running joke between my local jeweler and I. He's a designer/bench person with decades experience but not a gemologist. He'd never even heard of Paraibas until I told him about them being my holy grail. He would always say he would one day find me a nice paraiba I could afford and I would just laugh him off. Before this, the closest he came was a small very included stone which lacked the color saturation. So when he found this ring, I hated telling him it wasn't a Paraiba because it didn't have the neon glow and was too clean/large. But it was beautiful and I kept going back to look at it. Eventually, I justified buying it figuring that the substantial 18k gold/diamond setting meant I wasn't paying much for it provided it wasn't an apatite (a possibility first raised by my neighbor from the pictures).

What had me second guessing that it was even a tourmaline was that he bought it off some unknown lady who randomly called saying she had a Paraiba ring to sell. She brought the ring in and wanted cash. She said her husband had bought it for her and showed him an invoice (from some jeweler he didn't recognize) but said she wanted to keep the paperwork for sentimental reasons. She ended up taking less than half her asking price (since it was all the cash he had) and let her pick out a gold bracelet. The one she picked was fairly inexpensive saying her granddaughter would like it. Other than the fact that he said he took a copy of her license, the whole story had too many alarms going off in my head. Hence my post.

So it is a happy ending indeed. My jeweler can say he finally found me a "paraiba" (even if only by trade name) that I could afford. I don't think he will be upset because he bought it with me in mind and I paid his asking price. I have a beautiful ring that I love and just wanted to make sure the price was fair for whatever the stone was - finding out it was any sort of deal is icing on the cake.

Thanks to all for your nice words, education and encouragement. I felt a little silly with the post and how long its gotten for what it is. The happy ending is because of the nice comments about the stone regardless and especially Marlow, who insisted that even if it was "just" a tourmaline, it was a good price.

 

[Marlow]

You have a laaarge copper bearing tourmaline or cuprian elbaite in a beautiful setting with an AGL cert. for 2K!!!!

You stone has a very good quality - maybe not neon but well cut and shaped with a VERY good color. The price step from this color to a neon in this size would be dramatic!!!

I am sooo happy with you!!!!

 

[chrono]

I think, given the information you now have (even if still not fully known), you did well. With cuprian prices as it is today, I doubt you can get both the stone and setting for $2K anywhere else.

 

[LD]

You have a laaarge copper bearing tourmaline or cuprian elbaite in a beautiful setting with an AGL cert. for 2K!!!!

You stone has a very good quality - maybe not neon but well cut and shaped with a VERY good color. The price step from this color to a neon in this size would be dramatic!!!

I am sooo happy with you!!!!

Plus 1

I'm late to this thread but I would have agreed that this is definitely not Apatite that has an altogether different "look" to it and your stone looks very much like a copper bearing tourmaline from Mozambique. I will be interested to learn if I'm right lol

 

[GregS]

Very nice stone and big too!