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What say you: Better Color (F vs. J) or Clarity (VVS2 v. SI2)

E

eidrunner247

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 5, 2009
Messages
12
My Mutually Exclusive Decision
So, I just wanted to get a couple (few?) (lots?) of opinions regarding the trade-offs between cut and clarity. The two diamonds I am looking at are 3/4 ct. stones. I can post the actual details/specifications of the diamond, but on face value I did want to hear what other people had to say.

The first diamond is a 3/4 ct VVS2 J.

The second diamond is a 3/4 ct. SI2 F.

I guess what I am looking for is a few general opinions between the two diamonds. The SI2 stone is eye-clean (both stones are from reputable PS dealers).

My thoughts: I like the idea of a VVS2 stone, though I hesitate only because of the J color. I can obviously notice a J compared to a D/E/F (sometimes H), but even then it is still almost colorless and I have a hard time picking a J out if the lighting isn't optimal (or the stone is not against a white background). With it being a VVS2, I have no doubt it will be eye clean and it is relatively difficult to pick out any flaws unless it is under a microscope.

I also like the idea of a F stone. F is practically colorless and it is pretty tough for me to discern between a D and an F, but I can tell the difference between an F and a J. (I can notice a difference - I don't think it's a big difference, but I don't know. Is it a big difference for other people?). But, I hesitate with this one because it's an SI2. I know it is SI2, but as I haven't seen it, I am always a bit wary. Maybe I'm a bit finicky, but I'd rather not have any flaws noticeable by other people either. How often are SI2s eye clean?

Anyway, these are just the thoughts that have been going through my mind - stream of consciousness?

Please, any thoughts, suggestions, comments, criticism is welcome.
 
I wouldn't buy either.
I'd keep shopping for something with more balanced specs, like G VS2.

That's my opinion.
 
Date: 6/15/2010 1:52:03 AM
Author: kenny
I wouldn''t buy either.
I''d keep shopping for something with more balanced specs like G VS2.

That''s my opinion.
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Ditto.

Or I would get a bigger J SI1.
 
There are so many people around here who know much more than me about diamonds, but i will give you my opinion anyway...
If i really had to choose between those two stones, i''d take the F, SI2... If the stone comes indeed from a very reputable PS vendor who has the stone in house and he has confirmed that it is eye-clean, then most probably it is...Plus, as far as i know inclusions are more visible on bigger diamonds and not so much on the 3/4 ct stones. If the diamond is eye clean as confirmed, then the F color is - in my opinion - a very big privilege of the stone...To me the bright, crispy white appearence of the D, E, F color diamonds is extremely important... But of course, to each their own...
 
personally, i''d go for color over clarity
 
Going from F to J to get from SI2 to VVS2 would be my choice, without a doubt.
 
Other factors being equal (cut, size), and eye-clean to my standards, I''d go for the F. I have an F, eye-clean I2 on my hand right now and the pure whiteness jumps out at me. I wouldn''t scoff at the J-VVS2 though. My fave of all my diamonds happens to be an I-VVS1. Of course the fact that it''s my largest helps in that area.
9.gif
 
I''d keep looking. I think that you can find something more balanced....like a G SI 1 or G VS2....jmo...happy shopping!
 
This should be an easy decision. Go with the SI2 F. Sinse they''re both eye clean the clarity rating goes out of the window and you pick the stone with the more desirable color.
 
Unless you prefer the softer and more changeable color of the J (and many people do), I'd go for the higher color, lower clarity F SI2 as long as it is eye clean to your standards. I'm saying this because in the size of stone you are looking at, I think the color will be more noticeable than the clarity. And the F stone will look crisp and white.

That said, here's a more detailed description of my personal experience with different color and clarity grades:

D, E, F color diamonds look white from all angles and under all lighting conditions (I owned a D). I and J color diamonds (which I've owned) have a changeable nature -- sometimes white and sometimes off-white, depending on the lighting. You may also be able to see the body color of the stone from the side (mostly a consideration in an open solitaire setting; not so much of a consideration in a bezel setting where the bottom of the stone is covered by the setting).

High clarity, as you mentioned, is a mind-clean thing -- knowing that your stone is "clean" under a microscope is important to some people. I've owned two VS2 stones, one SI2 stone (primary inclusion -- tiny cavity); one I1 stone (primary inclusion -- many small, clear crystals).

Yeah, I know, I was sort of like Goldilocks and the Three Bears -- this diamond is too white; this diamond is not white enough -- but through the experience I learned (along with the importance of upgrade policies) that *I* prefer a diamond in the nearly colorless range (G, H, I, J) and I am completely okay with lower clarity grades because if I can't see the inclusions with my naked eye, I don't care if they are visible under a 10x loupe or microscope. Diamonds are rocks. Rocks are from the earth -- it's okay if rocks have inclusions. ETA: However, just like I mentioned above, inclusions may be a factor depending on where they are located in the stone and how you set the stone. Clarity is graded by viewing the stone from the top down. If you are someone who likes to view diamonds from the side in an open solitaire setting -- you may see the inclusions in diamonds with VS2 (rare, but possible) and lower clarity grades. But if the stone is set in a bezel setting, a halo setting, or other setting that does not allow a clear view of the bottom and sides of the stone, you may never notice the inclusions.

But that's me, and those are my preferences, developed over about a year's time and several upgrades to get the right stone. So all we can really do is give you our opinions and describe our preferences, and encourage you to see as many well cut stones in person (and/or buy from a vendor with a return policy) to determine your own preferences.

If you can afford it, you could always order both stones and then view them in person and compare them side by side in different lighting conditions, and keep the one you prefer and return the other.
 
I would go for the F...
 
Date: 6/15/2010 1:29:39 AM
Author:eidrunner247
My Mutually Exclusive Decision

So, I just wanted to get a couple (few?) (lots?) of opinions regarding the trade-offs between cut and clarity. The two diamonds I am looking at are 3/4 ct. stones. I can post the actual details/specifications of the diamond, but on face value I did want to hear what other people had to say.


The first diamond is a 3/4 ct VVS2 J.


The second diamond is a 3/4 ct. SI2 F.


I guess what I am looking for is a few general opinions between the two diamonds. The SI2 stone is eye-clean (both stones are from reputable PS dealers).


My thoughts: I like the idea of a VVS2 stone, though I hesitate only because of the J color. I can obviously notice a J compared to a D/E/F (sometimes H), but even then it is still almost colorless and I have a hard time picking a J out if the lighting isn''t optimal (or the stone is not against a white background). With it being a VVS2, I have no doubt it will be eye clean and it is relatively difficult to pick out any flaws unless it is under a microscope.


I also like the idea of a F stone. F is practically colorless and it is pretty tough for me to discern between a D and an F, but I can tell the difference between an F and a J. (I can notice a difference - I don''t think it''s a big difference, but I don''t know. Is it a big difference for other people?). But, I hesitate with this one because it''s an SI2. I know it is SI2, but as I haven''t seen it, I am always a bit wary. Maybe I''m a bit finicky, but I''d rather not have any flaws noticeable by other people either. How often are SI2s eye clean?


Anyway, these are just the thoughts that have been going through my mind - stream of consciousness?


Please, any thoughts, suggestions, comments, criticism is welcome.
Click to expand...
I would prefer a more balanced choice.
F - VS1
or
G - VS1
 
The first diamond is a 3/4 ct VVS2 J.

The second diamond is a 3/4 ct. SI2 F.
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I didn't take time to look up approximate price ranges for those two options. Assuming that price is what's keeping the lid on, I'd take the F SI2 over the J VVS, provided the cuts are equal performers and the SI2 does not have potential structural problems like a huge feather. Whether or not feathers are acceptable is a constant debate, and you have to consider each situation individually. I agree with the others who said that clarity is a better trade-off than color.

I have a J RB that's .81ct and 6mm. It might be a low J, closer to K. It's not white. It's a pale yellow, to me. I dropped that stone into white gold and then into yellow gold, and it was obvious that it's a J that looks better in yellow or rose gold than in any of the white metals. The pale yellow tint of that particular stone is complimented by the yellow gold, and it looks "sallow" in white gold, let alone platinum.

F and G color in that diameter and depth of RB will look very bright white, regardless of what you set them in. To my eye, the brighter white, at a glance, always appears to be a larger diamond than a J or lower of the same diameter. That's how my eyes see them. Whiter = bigger.

I have an I with strong blue fluor, and I can see the tint in it from the side. The fluor makes it have about a G-color white appearance face up in most lighting, particularly office lighting. I have owned that diamond since 1994 or 1995, and I honestly never noticed tint in it until 2006 when I became a Pricescoper and learned to look for tint. I looked at a Hearts On Fire 1.5ct Princess in I color, and to be quite honest, the first thing I noticed about it was the tint from the side. I see the tint in the .81ct J that I have, both face up and from the side. If I wear my F diamond a while, then look at H color, H looks just slightly off-white.

So, if you want low-risk of someone being eventually annoyed by tint, the F/G/H range might be a safer bet, if you don't really know for sure that the wearer likes warmer diamonds.

That's my opinion. Your mileage may vary. ;-)
 
Date: 6/15/2010 7:36:52 AM
Author: m_kluch
This should be an easy decision. Go with the SI2 F. Sinse they''re both eye clean the clarity rating goes out of the window and you pick the stone with the more desirable color.
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I would generally agree with this mentality. The clarity doesn''t matter to me as long as it''s eye-clean and the clarity doesn''t affect performance. I bought a 2.14ct G - SI2 for my GF''s engagement ring, though I was considering an H - SI1 just because I was doubting whether the SI-2 would actually be eye-clean.
 
Something to keep in mind is that technical eye clean and real life every day eye clean can be very different things. A *true* eye clean close up from every angles SI2 is very rare. Possible, but rare. For me personally, I like to inspect my diamonds up close and I am near sighted, so inclusions that are visible in any lighting really bug me. I prefer VS2 and above for this reason.
 
if it''s between these two only...I would go with the F SI2, as long as you have verified that it is eye-clean to your definition. But you might want to look for a G/H VS2-SI1 in your budget?
 
Just reach down and touch yourself.. Take a deep breath and ask what your heart tells you..
 
Date: 6/15/2010 4:39:23 PM
Author: Bartholomew
Just reach down and touch yourself.. Take a deep breath and ask what your heart tells you..
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Sir! This is a family forum. If you would him to touch himself, there are plenty of other places on the intertubes he can go!!!

38.gif
 
Date: 6/15/2010 4:41:51 PM
Author: missydebby


Sir! This is a family forum. If you would him to touch himself, there are plenty of other places on the intertubes he can go!!!


38.gif
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I am simply trying to help. Please keep the personal attacks to yourself, even if you disagree with my opinion.
 
I believe the intention was light-hearted humor.
 
Bart, I was totally joking! (Hence the reference to the intertubes.... gah!) Did it come off as serious?

Here's my apology:

*head is bowed down, hat in hands*

It has come to my attention that I have inadvertently caused distress to my fellow beloved PS'er, by making fun of what I considered a double entendre. I am a childish child, and literally cannot help myself when seeing said double entendre and wanting to make a joke. I blame fervent watching of Beavis and Butthead in my youth. Please accept my apologies if I for one moment caused distress or anger, for that was not my intention.

Let us speak of this travesty no more, and return our attention to OP's original concerns.
 
Personally I would try for either an F SI1 that is truly eye clean (and I have an SI1 that is) or go for a G VS2. I can''t tolerate Js and I need my stone to be absolutely eye clean for a ring. I look at them at all angles and up close so I need it to be visually perfect or it drives me batty.
 
Date: 6/15/2010 5:08:15 PM
Author: missydebby
Bart, I was totally joking! (Hence the reference to the intertubes.... gah!) Did it come off as serious?


Here''s my apology:


*head is bowed down, hat in hands*


It has come to my attention that I have inadvertently caused distress to my fellow beloved PS''er, by making fun of what I considered a double entendre. I am a childish child, and literally cannot help myself when seeing said double entendre and wanting to make a joke. I blame fervent watching of Beavis and Butthead in my youth. Please accept my apologies if I for one moment caused distress or anger, for that was not my intention.


Let us speak of this travesty no more, and return our attention to OP''s original concerns.
Click to expand...

I can go poo poo in the toilet all by myself. :D
 
Date: 6/15/2010 5:08:15 PM
Author: missydebby
Bart, I was totally joking! (Hence the reference to the intertubes.... gah!) Did it come off as serious?


Here''s my apology:


*head is bowed down, hat in hands*


It has come to my attention that I have inadvertently caused distress to my fellow beloved PS''er, by making fun of what I considered a double entendre. I am a childish child, and literally cannot help myself when seeing said double entendre and wanting to make a joke. I blame fervent watching of Beavis and Butthead in my youth. Please accept my apologies if I for one moment caused distress or anger, for that was not my intention.


Let us speak of this travesty no more, and return our attention to OP''s original concerns.
Click to expand...

BTW, send some those intertube places my way please.
 
I would go for the F.
 
I would go for color over clarity, but those options seem to both be on the extreme ends of color and clarity. I LOVE high color and do not worry about clarity (as long as it is eye clean), but why the jump from VVS2 to SI2? What about something in the VS range or SI1? I love an eye-clean SI2, but they are rare. I personally would stick with the F color. But, again, I am color sensitive.
 
If I wanted a colourless stone, I found I need a H or above. I saw an "I" colour that I absolutely loved, but it drove me batty to see the tint. A J would take me over the edge (unless that's what I was looking for).

Inclusions on the other hand don't bother me at all, unless it's super visible or distracting. Ask the vendor to look over the F Si2 and ensure it meets your eye clean standards. If it does, there is no doubt that the F Si2 should be the one. I personally think VVS's are a waste of money but I understand if it's a cultural/pureness or mind clean thing.


ETA: I had to point out the tint in the I to my bf. He's not looking at it as closely as I am. He saw it, but in the end, whether it's a tint or a slight inclusion, make sure the person wearing it doesn't mind.
 
Date: 6/15/2010 5:57:45 AM
Author: agatha.nl
personally, i''d go for color over clarity
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and I would go for clarity over color

Ultimately there isn''t a right answer and you have to decide what YOUR priorities are.
 
Date: 6/15/2010 4:39:23 PM
Author: Bartholomew
Just reach down and touch yourself.. Take a deep breath and ask what your heart tells you..
Click to expand...

Sounds like an answer right there. He needs to go F himself :)
 
I''m a bit surprised to see the variety of different opinions offered on this topic. Most of them were on topic too (thank you). My decision isn''t necessarily any easier, but it''s nice to hear that there isn''t any one right answer.

I deliberately left off Option 3 - a compromise between the two stones. Not having Option 3 was my dilemma from the beginning. I had actually been wondering if anyone would choose Option 3 (and a few of you did). The problem is that I have been waiting and waiting for the "right" stone, but I have been contemplated that, when the time comes and I have to make a decision, how do I choose between two equally comparable stones? Without a time pressure, I can afford to wait for the balance.

That being said, this thread has also been helpful to measure the level of priority between color and clarity.

HVVS - you''re right in assuming that pricing constraints "kept the lid on." In fact, both stones are close in value. Obviously, with a larger budget finding an appropriate stone would be easier. Still, there is a certain amount of challenge in waiting patiently for the right stone (must like waiting for the right man/woman right?).

So, in the meantime I do plan on waiting a bit more to see if I can''t find that balance between color and clarity. But when push comes to shove, this thread has given me a lot to consider. (So, thank you all).
 
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