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What to do with this Ruby Ring

lilmosun

lilmosun

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 30, 2014
Messages
2,421
I wasn't looking for but bought this ruby ring about 6 months ago. I was told the rubies were Burmese heat only. I asked if there was flux and told "I guarantee, no flux" I mentioned most heated rubies had flux residue so he wrote on the receipt "Heat only - no flux/residue".

While I know and trust the vendor, I was confident he didn't know that most rubies out of Burma are heated in flux and have been for decades. Many don't. So I sent the ring to GIA and was not surprised but disappointed when it came back with minor residue.

I contacted the vendor who was upset and immediately sent a copy of the report to his overseas office who bought the stones. They called GIA and were told that minor residue was common/acceptable in the industry. He asked his office to find heat only no flux rubies and remake the ring. His office told him they could not find no residue unless we went unheated. So he has offered me a full refund.

To be clear, unlike some here, I think minor reside is acceptable if it is a good price. However, this ring is near the top of my limit on what I will spend on a piece of jewelry. If the stones were heat only with no residue, I would be dancing on the table and thought I got a great deal.

However, I do love everything else about the ring. It has the finger coverage, is well made and I love the color of the stones in all lights. But I bought it as heat only/no residue and don't want to overpay. I have no idea on prices as I've pretty buying rubies is just too expensive without the risk of treatments for. My sense is I won't find a nicer Burmese ruby ring in my budget (unless I got lucky on a preloved piece - but most in my budget probably don't have lab reports). Given the cost of everything, I don't think I got totally ripped off.

So would love your thoughts on what to do.:
- Keep the ring
- Return it for a full refund (I assume I would eat the report although he might pay for it if I asked)
- Another option, which I started leaning towards, is to see if he will me a partial refund to keep. If so, what would make it a good price but fair? I was thinking 20%?

Pictures/links of other rings/stones to compare are welcome as well.

Here are the details:
- Paid $2600 (plus the lab report)
- 18K YG
- 1.15 ctw diamonds
- 2.5 ctw Burmese rubies heat minor residue (1/2 ct each)

Indoor shot

20220707_140909.jpg

- The ring is beautifully made and substantial (can't find my scale but it has some weight to it)

thumbnail_20220411_193804 (1).jpg

Just found this quick pic I took outdoors when I was contemplating buying

Resized_20211219_162014.jpeg
 
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So you love the ring, you don't think you'd find another like it for a better price and you more or less expected this anyway?

Also, you feel confident that the dealer was simply mistaken, rather than deceptive. That might make a difference to me because I may just not want to let someone get away with deliberately cheating me. (Also, since he didn't offer a discount, it seems likely he gave the ring the mark up that he wanted from it, regardless).

If I understood all that correctly, I'd just keep it and enjoy it, personally. With items that are hard to find and just for your own pleasure, to me, paying a bit more or less doesn't really matter. JMHO :)
 
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seaurchin said:
So you love the ring, you don't think you'd find another like it for a better price and you more or less expected this anyway?

Also, you feel confident that the dealer was simply mistaken, rather than deceptive. That might make a difference to me because I may not want to let someone get away with deliberately cheating me. (Also, since he didn't offer a discount, it seems likely he gave the ring the mark up that he wanted from it, regardless).

If I understood all that correctly, I'd just keep it and enjoy it, personally. With items that are hard to find and just for your own pleasure, to me, paying a bit more or less doesn't really matter. JMHO :)
Click to expand...

Thanks @seaurchin and you make some valid points.

I am confident that the vendor was simply mistaken, rather than deceptive.

It was an impulse buy and if he told me the ring had minor residue, I probably would not have bought it because I don't make a habit of spending that much on a single piece. It was the guarantee of no residue my confidence that he would let me return it if it wasn't that made it a no brainer.

He didn't offer a discount but he did offer to remake the ring if he could find heated rubies with no residue. I made such a big deal about "no residue" when buying, he probably just assumes it was important to me and I would accept nothing less.

But the idea of owning a nice Burmese ruby ring has grown on me. I do own African rubies and red spinel rings - but mostly smaller/simper pieces where I love rings with finger coverage...sometimes hard to find on my budget.

They ring is completely my style BUT it isn't irreplaceable. I have too many rings to say that about any of them. I don't know the price of rubies at all (other than unheated is out of my budget, lol) so am just guessing (or asking) that I can't get something similar (in terms of finger coverage/color/treatment...not necessarily style) at that price. Is it still a good price? Or is it just a fair price? Or have I overpaid?
 
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GIA identified it as heat with minor residue ... not what you wanted at all, and you even double-checked with vendor. I'm thinking if you'd known the rubies had minor residues you probably wouldn't have purchased the ring at all.

My take is, the vendor priced the ruby ring as, and guaranteed it to be, Burma heat only, no flux/residues.

You paid for GIA report because you wanted scientific confirmation of the rubies' treatment status. So it's important to you.

I wonder, if you keep the ring, will you still be looking/saving for a ruby without residue? If so, then return for full refund and also ask for reimbursement of the GIA report (and of course send original GIA report with the ring back to the vendor).

If you now realize you don't have or want to spend the money required to get an untreated ruby or heat/no-residue ruby, and you find you'd rather not give up the ruby ring, then perhaps ask the vendor for a 15% refund of what you paid and/or reimbursement of GIA fees and costs.

Personally I would not be okay with buying and keeping something that turns out to not be what it was represented/guaranteed/ priced to be, without some kind of a price adjustment.

Question: did GIA confirm Burma origin?

FWIW I do think the ring is lovely and well-made; I can see why it caught your eye and why you bought it. Even with minor residue I think the $2600 price is reasonable -- particularly if GIA confirmed Burma origin -- but I'd at least want my out-of-pocket GIA fees (service + postage) reimbursed.
 
I think it's a fair price, a somewhat plausible story -- with an offer to make it right, and a lovely ring. If you were to start from scratch and try to re-create the ring with comparable color/clarity untreated Burma material, you would go way over budget.

We have a pretty ring with a similar story and it's a "don't-ask-don't-tell" situation -- we chose to think the best and never sought a report. :cool2:

My vote is to enjoy the ring. If you know you will never be able to enjoy it now, then return it.
 
PrecisionGem said:
The most popular price guide in the trade, shows Flux heated ruby in Good quality with slight to moderate effect decreasing price over heated alone by 0 to 5% and moderate to extensive healing 10 to 20%.
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The above is a quote from here: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/are-flux-healed-rubies-fragile.273375/post-5126294
Based on that, you probably didn't overpay, or if you did, it wasn't by much. That is, assuming the ring was priced fairly for heat only, and with the prices I've seen being thrown around for rubies, that does seem to be the case.

I'd say first of all you need to figure out whether you still want the ring, regardless of what you paid for it. If minor residue is a big no-no, you probably wouldn't wear it even if it was a gift.

If you decide you want it (it's a beautiful ring!), then you could notify the vendor that because you like it so much you've decided to compromise on the level of treatment, but you would like it to be priced fairly according to that treatment. And then negotiate on the size of the partial refund.
 
For what it's worth, I talked to Inken about this issue when we were working on my ruby eternity project. I knew going in that to get a full matched set of burmese rubies with the color, glow, and size I wanted, that I'd likely wind up with heated stones (and I bought the 4 spares that Inken's supplier had because I knew they would be nearly impossible to find a match for down the road if I needed to replace any of them). I wanted to make sure, though, that the stones were heat only. What Inken told me was that part of the Burmese heating process is that they are *always* heated with a flux, so there's no way to 100% exclude that there are some residues from the heating process that a lab could pick up on. She said that frankly, no sane jeweler or gem dealer would guarantee that "heat only" burmese rubies will wind up being found to have "no residues whatsoever" by a lab -- the only guarantee is that they won't have anything that shows up aside from that.
 
Thank you...your comments align with what's going on in my head. I will respond directly tonight when I get to a computer. Appreciate your time and thoughtful responses!
 
So, first, I think you paid a very reasonable price. Second, the ring is lovely. Third, you clearly love it. Fourth, you mentioned that you feel minor residue is acceptable. My gut tells me the best way to move forward in this particular case is to ask for a partial refund. You'll feel better about the value and you get to keep a ring you really seem to enjoy. Please keep us posted! I'm a big floral design lover, BTW!
 
I have no sage advice other than it’s a beautiful ring that looks amazing on. The color is your desired red shade, the coverage ticks the box for you too.
If it’s not going to be mind clean then I guess you should return but, Idk, I love it!!
Perhaps a small discount would make you feel whole and satisfied with the transaction?
 
I agree with all of the comments that this is a nice ring and the price is very reasonable even with slightly treated rubies because the cost of a setting is very high these days. I would definitely try asking for a discount though considering you didn’t get what you paid for. As others have said, if you can’t get past the treatment part and won’t enjoy the ring because of that then you should return it. But I do think the price is totally in the ballpark.
 
I would keep it if I liked it and it wasn't overpriced. I once returned an item that wasn't what it was supposed to be (untreated ruby turned out to be oiled) but really liked the look of. Had I kept it, I would have really overpaid for it, but that doesn't change the fact that I miss it.
 
So now I'm wondering what comes next if you request a partial refund and he says no. Just feel good that you tried and keep it, return it or ?
 
Again, thank you all for your comments. It really helped me to organize my thoughts.

@LilAlex @Daisys and Diamonds @Avondale Since it is common/acceptable in the industry, it isn't a mind clean things. As I've mentioned on other threads (and some have disagreed with), I think minor residue is fine as long as the buyer is aware. More than minor would not be acceptable for me under any circumstances.

CircularBrilliant said:
What Inken told me was that part of the Burmese heating process is that they are *always* heated with a flux, so there's no way to 100% exclude that there are some residues from the heating process that a lab could pick up on.
Click to expand...

I have read this is true with rubies from Mong Hsu not Mogok. But 95% of Burmese rubies now come from Mong Hsu. This ring was made from an older parcel so I thought there might be a possibility of it not having flux.

@marymm I did not ask for a certificate of origin because I didn't have an real concerns about stated Origin and wanted to keep the cost of the certificate low (in fact I only asked GIA to test 3 stones at random, not all 5). Although US based, the vendor has extended family in Myanmar and primarily sells Burmese jade (years ago, I got a certificate for 1 piece just to double check). When he learned that the stones had residue, he contacted his buying office, which I learned was in Thailand - another indicator as the flux heating of rubies from Mong Hsu started in Thailand which is right over the border.

@LilAlex I agree his ignorance IS plausible as he specializes in Burmese jade, not rubies. Plus he tried to make things right. Unlike oiling of Columbian emeralds, I believe that it is not widespread knowledge about how most Burmese rubies are heated with flux. Flux is generally considered an unorthodox treatment for most stones and why he was so horrified and confident it wouldn't be there.

@JewelledEscalators As others pointed out, I don't think it is overpriced but it isn't the great price that was in part the motivator for making what was, for me, a large purchase.

@Autumn in New England @Slickk @CaseyLouLou and others. Thanks for your nice comments about the ring and confirming that it would not be unreasonable to ask for a discount.

Again, thanks for all of the thoughtful comments. I read them many times today as I contemplated what to do....
 
I decided that in keeping the ring, the minor residue wouldn't bother me so much as it would be a reminder that I didn't get what I paid for. I am someone who has no qualms about wearing costume jewelry if I like it.

While it was a fair market price and I love the ring, I would not have bought it, at this price, if I knew it was heated in flux which to me makes it common. As I mentioned, it was on the expensive side of what I buy.

I don't really have any "must haves" when it comes to jewelry...it's more about the fun of collecting and wearing a variety of different pieces (hence the need for a firm limit on what I will spend on any given piece). For those who asked- because of that limit, there is no possibility of me being able to put the money towards an unheated ruby :)

seaurchin said:
So now I'm wondering what comes next if you request a partial refund and he says no. Just feel good that you tried and keep it, return it or ?
Click to expand...

So yes, as most of you suggested, I am going to ask for a partial refund. If he says no, I am going to return it. Final answer :)

Again, thanks to everyone for helping me validate and organize what's been going on in my head. It was very helpful!
 
Great news (that was fast!)

I sent a text asking him if rather than the agreed upon return, would he be willing to pay for the certificate and also offer a discount since it wasn't what I paid for?

I immediately got a "Yes" :appl:

I asked him what would be fair and he asked if he could get back to me next week when he can look at his records. Admittedly, in my mind I am hoping for 10% but let's see what he says.

Again, thank you all for helping me rationalize. Originally I was going to return the ring and it's been sitting sealed in the GIA box finding a good time for both of us to meet up to return it. This week it occurred to me that I should make sure it was in the box :eek-2: and upon opening it, realized I really did like the ring. So your thoughts about price, what you would do, etc...were so very helpful and hopefully this resolution is one that works for both myself and the vendor.
 
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lilmosun said:
Great news (that was fast!)

I sent a text asking him if rather than the agreed upon return, would he be willing to pay for the certificate and also offer a discount since it wasn't what I paid for?

I immediately got a "Yes" :appl:

I asked him what would be fair and he asked if he could get back to me next week when he can look at his records. Admittedly, in my mind I am hoping for 10% but let's see what he says.

Again, thank you all for helping me rationalize. Originally I was going to return the ring and it's been sitting sealed in the GIA box finding a good time for both of us for me to send it back. This week it occurred to me that I should make sure it was in the box :eek-2: and upon opening it, realized I really did like the ring. So your thoughts about price, what you would do, etc...were so very helpful and hopefully this resolution is one that works for both myself and the vendor.
Click to expand...

this sounds so promising
im very happy for you its working out
it is a very lovelly ring
 
Sounds like you’re dealing with an honest and ethical vendor. Fingers crossed you get a good discount on it. In the end, can one have too many beautiful rings? I think not!
 
The vendor got back to me today and offered me a $600 refund which I immediately accepted. His cost to make the ring was $2250 but took into consideration that I also paid for the lab fee. Thankful that this was so straight forward - making my decision to keep the ring an easy one. He's relieved and happy as am I.

As others pointed out, the setting alone would cost quite a bit in today's market making it easy to overlook the minor residue. I can pretend I bought the ring for the beautiful/substantial setting, not the rubies :lol:

Again, many thanks to all who posted their support. At first, I was just going to return the ring and be done. But talking me into keeping it with a discount gave me the confidence to ask!
 
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lilmosun said:
The vendor got back to me today and offered me a $600 refund which I immediately accepted. His cost to make the ring was $2250 but took into consideration that I also paid for the lab fee. Thankful that this was so straight forward - making my decision to keep the ring an easy one. He's relieved and happy as am I.

As others pointed out, the setting alone would cost quite a bit in today's market making it easy to overlook the minor residue. I can pretend I bought the ring for the beautiful/substantial setting, not the rubies :lol:

Again, many thanks to all who posted their support. At first, I was just going to return the ring and be done. But talking me into keeping it with a discount gave me the confidence to ask!
Click to expand...

Woohoo! What a great outcome! Now you can freely enjoy your beautiful new ring. Plus, there's the added bonus of having a vendor who sounds pretty trustworthy and worth considering next time you have a project. Win-win.
 
lilmosun said:
The vendor got back to me today and offered me a $600 refund which I immediately accepted. His cost to make the ring was $2250 but took into consideration that I also paid for the lab fee. Thankful that this was so straight forward - making my decision to keep the ring an easy one. He's relieved and happy as am I.

As others pointed out, the setting alone would cost quite a bit in today's market making it easy to overlook the minor residue. I can pretend I bought the ring for the beautiful/substantial setting, not the rubies :lol:

Again, many thanks to all who posted their support. At first, I was just going to return the ring and be done. But talking me into keeping it with a discount gave me the confidence to ask!
Click to expand...

I'm so thrilled you got some relief, and have renewed excitement for the piece. Congrats again!!
 
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