What would you do if you were swindled?

[Shijitake]

I bought a "red sapphire" from a jeweler a few years back. He said it was very rare, and the reason it's not a ruby is because it doesn't contain chromium. Well, of course, the naive, un-gemstone-educated me wanted it. I paid $200 for the stone. I can't whip it out right now but I think it's about 4mm, about .75 carat. Years later I was curious. How could a sapphire be red? Then I found out about beryllium heating. I remember him saying something about heat. Did he swindle me? Or was the price fair? I have his number. I'm not very confrontational though. What would you do?

 

[Rfisher]

http://www.multicolour.com/gallery/index.html?-562090437


I would do nothing.

 

[Shijitake]

Why not? According to that site, the sapphire shouldn't have been more than $24.

 

[tkyasx78]

I wouldnt bother with a 200$ purchase that was more than a year ago. Not worth the time or energy.

Just never buy from
Them again.

 

[Shijitake]

I had it set in a ring, so with the ring it was $400. The stone alone was $200.

 

[MollyMalone]

I'm hoping that you have had 4 cents/day worth of pleasure from the ring over the course of the past few years: $400 divided by 1000 days (less than 3 years) = 4 pennies/day.

 

[tkyasx78]

Seriously let it go.

Your time to do due diligence ended a longtime ago.

While it is terrible they misled you, they can simply claim you switched the stone. You have had it way way way too long.
If you hate the stone now, replace it with a new one!
A gorgeous pariba... or whatever!!

 

[kindred]

I am really sorry if you were misled (or worse, outright lied to), but I would let it go. It was years ago and I think that you got what you paid for. It does look like a nice ring.

ETA- Red/pinkish sapphires are called rubies. Sapphire comes in many colors and often undergoes lots of treatments. You would pay much more than $200 for an untreated and unheated ruby of good color and there are only a handful of labs that could even conduct the tests necessary to prove that.

 

[qubitasaurus]

It would be extremely hard to find anything in that price range with a nice redish colour that was not diffused or lead glass filled. You payed a fair price for what you got (which is the main reason for wanting to understand whether something is treated. To ensure that you are not overpaying. You didnt overpay. A untreated ruby should have been multiple times what you payed.), so I would just enjoy it. If it offers any solace stuff is sometimes labeled reddish sapphire cause it contains too much pink or orange seccondary colour to be called a ruby. So you may find it was untreated either way. I would not try to find out. It will be a decent fraction of the price of the stone just to work it out.

 

[Shijitake]

It would be extremely hard to find anything in that price range with a nice redish colour that was not diffused or lead glass filled. You payed a fair price for what you got (which is the main reason for wanting to understand whether something is treated. To ensure that you are not overpaying. You didnt overpay. A untreated ruby should have been multiple times what you payed.), so I would just enjoy it. If it offers any solace stuff is sometimes labeled reddish sapphire cause it contains too much pink or orange seccondary colour to be called a ruby. So you may find it was untreated either way. I would not try to find out. It will be a decent fraction of the price of the stone just to work it out.

Thank you, that's helpful. If I had known at the time though, I would've just saved it for an actual ruby, even if it's not the best color ruby. I'm glad I was suspicious that he had a "red sapphire" that wasn't a ruby though. Maybe I should at least leave him a bad review fo the lie so others don't get swindled.

 

[PrecisionGem]

How do you figure your stone should have only been $24? The stone for $24 was 1/3 the size of your stone. The price of stones vs size is not always linear, especially in sapphire.

A ruby, is a red sapphire, both are corundum, just when it’s red its called ruby and the price goes up. There is often much debate on if a stone is ruby or pink sapphire, or red/purple sapphire etc. To the seller it’s ruby, to the buyer it’s sapphire. The fact that your dealer sold it as a sapphire rather than a ruby, tells you something positive.
At this point, you don’t know anything about any possible treatments on the stone. It’s quit possible there are none, or it could be glass filled, you don’t know at this point. It makes no sense to mail it to a lab to find out, as the lab cost and shipping both ways will end up being $100. I think $200 for the stone is a very fair price.

 

[marymm]

Unless you had the stone tested by AGL or GIA you still don't know what it is or level/type of treatment/enhancement. It's been two years. As a consumer you decided it was acceptable to buy something you knew nothing about based on words out of the seller's mouth. That's on you. I don't mean that in a harsh way, just that if a purchaser chooses to buy something based on nothing more than sales talk, and then waits two years, and still is making assumptions about what the item is, I don't see you have any recourse to do anything. Even if you had an AGL or GIA report, it has been too long, plus add in the fact you bought it loose and since have set it.

Take from this experience the lesson that consumers should do homework before important purchases, and consumers should buy items that come with independent reputable reports and/or warranties. If you have questions or concerns about an item, ask your questions and get your answers in writing pre-purchase. For post-purchase questions, have a third party expert examine the item *while* still in return or warranty period.

 

[Shijitake]

How do you figure your stone should have only been $24? The stone for $24 was 1/3 the size of your stone. The price of stones vs size is not always linear, especially in sapphire.

A ruby, is a red sapphire, both are corundum, just when it’s red its called ruby and the price goes up. There is often much debate on if a stone is ruby or pink sapphire, or red/purple sapphire etc. To the seller it’s ruby, to the buyer it’s sapphire. The fact that your dealer sold it as a sapphire rather than a ruby, tells you something positive.
At this point, you don’t know anything about any possible treatments on the stone. It’s quit possible there are none, or it could be glass filled, you don’t know at this point. It makes no sense to mail it to a lab to find out, as the lab cost and shipping both ways will end up being $100. I think $200 for the stone is a very fair price.

I don't know the stone's actual size/carat, and definitely don't know its worth. But if it is 3x the size of the one on that site then it should be less than $100. Either way, I just felt really unhappy to find out it wasn't really a rare sapphire. I was a year or two out of college, just got a job, and was really excited about having something very rare. I loved it to death (just a tad less than the jewelry my aunt who's a second mother gave me). I wore it to weddings and showed it to my friends. It's the most I ever spent on anything at the time (even more than limited edition video game collector's set!). Then I find out it's not real. You can't imagine the disappointment. I thought I could trust that guy for more shiny things. He even told a sort of sob story about how he hated his job and switched over to jewelry making after he was gifted a moldavite that changed his life and almost started to tear up. So "just let it go" isn't so easy. I'm just glad I was stingy with money and never caught him while he was in my area and never spent another penny on him.

 

[Shijitake]

Unless you had the stone tested by AGL or GIA you still don't know what it is or level/type of treatment/enhancement. It's been two years. As a consumer you decided it was acceptable to buy something you knew nothing about based on words out of the seller's mouth. That's on you. I don't mean that in a harsh way, just that if a purchaser chooses to buy something based on nothing more than sales talk, and then waits two years, and still is making assumptions about what the item is, I don't see you have any recourse to do anything. Even if you had an AGL or GIA report, it has been too long, plus add in the fact you bought it loose and since have set it.

Take from this experience the lesson that consumers should do homework before important purchases, and consumers should buy items that come with independent reputable reports and/or warranties. If you have questions or concerns about an item, ask your questions and get your answers in writing pre-purchase. For post-purchase questions, have a third party expert examine the item *while* still in return or warranty period.

Marymm, you misunderstand. I had suspicions from the beginning. I even researched red sapphires, rubies with no chromium, etc. I couldn't find any information. I never heard of beryllium treatment and nothing was coming up on my searches. I did my homework. It was about 6 years ago. I did it again about 4 years later, then again recently, when finally BE treatment came up. He had only two and I didn't want to miss out on something good. He also traveled, so I wasn't sure if I'd see him again. It was my first jewelry purchase. I don't feel like you need to reprimand me for not knowing better. I'm sure we all had our mistakes in purchases.

I realize it was a long time ago, but I wanted to see what everyone else would do.

 

[digdeep]

Everyone's first jewelry experience has lessons............ As stated by others it indeed could be any number of things............including untreated. Colored gems are an ongoing educational process as treatments change and popular gems change..........everyone has at least one story like this to share---some have more than one! Always look for an AGL brief or return policy that allows you to verify the gem with them...............that's the best safety net available.

 

[Shijitake]

Everyone's first jewelry experience has lessons............ As stated by others it indeed could be any number of things............including untreated. Colored gems are an ongoing educational process as treatments change and popular gems change..........everyone has at least one story like this to share---some have more than one! Always look for an AGL brief or return policy that allows you to verify the gem with them...............that's the best safety net available.

I thought about backing out but I was young and timid. When I got the ring and saw how pretty it was I just threw it all out the window lol. Lesson learned now.

I didn't know about GIA or AGL at the time. I'm glad I found out before buying my pad though.

 

[PrecisionGem]

What makes you think it’s not real? There are many natural, untreated sapphires in that color, actually I just one that is a similar color, a bit more purple, that is a natural unheated or treated stone.
As far as price goes,you can not take a 0.27 ct stone and figure that a stone 3 times the size should only be 3 times the price. It doesn’t work that way, pricing is not linear. A 0.25 ct stone may sell for $200 per ct, but the exact same material in a 1 ct stone could be $600 per ct. You can not assume that all 1 ct stones should be the same price. Subtle changes in color could take the same stone from $200 per ct to $1000 per ct. Clarity and cut also can dramatically alter the price.
$200 may seem like a lot of money if you are comparing it to a video game, but in the gem world, a $200 sapphire is really cheap, an no one would bother sending it into a lab to be tested. I wouldn’t think of a lab report on anything under $1500.
If your seller was the swindler you think he is, he would have told you the stone is a ruby. Many people call any sapphire that is close to being red a ruby and charge more for it.

 

[Shijitake]

What makes you think it’s not real? There are many natural, untreated sapphires in that color, actually I just one that is a similar color, a bit more purple, that is a natural unheated or treated stone.
As far as price goes,you can not take a 0.27 ct stone and figure that a stone 3 times the size should only be 3 times the price. It doesn’t work that way, pricing is not linear. A 0.25 ct stone may sell for $200 per ct, but the exact same material in a 1 ct stone could be $600 per ct. You can not assume that all 1 ct stones should be the same price. Subtle changes in color could take the same stone from $200 per ct to $1000 per ct. Clarity and cut also can dramatically alter the price.
$200 may seem like a lot of money if you are comparing it to a video game, but in the gem world, a $200 sapphire is really cheap, an no one would bother sending it into a lab to be tested. I wouldn’t think of a lab report on anything under $1500.
If your seller was the swindler you think he is, he would have told you the stone is a ruby. Many people call any sapphire that is close to being red a ruby and charge more for it.

What's not real is his lies. To make it clear, he said it was rare, natural, and didn't mention anything about beryllium and/or lattice diffusion.

What I meant about prices was that since it was BE/lattice diffusion, I didn't think it should cost so much. But it's true I don't know how much BE treated sapphires cost. Maybe he didn't swindle me, I don't know. But when I wrote this post, it seemed that way. From reading about BE treated sapphires, they "aren't worth much". I don't know how "much" the worth is.

It bothers me that he lied about it being rare and natural. That to me is part of the swindle.

 

[PrecisionGem]

How do you know now that it is BE treated?

If you look at that same page that made you think your stone was only worth $24, there is another sapphire of the same color that is 2.16 ct with a price of $2025 or $938 per ct. So if you base your stone on that, it is worth $703 and you got a great deal.

 

[cmd2014]

I bought a "red sapphire" from a jeweler a few years back. He said it was very rare, and the reason it's not a ruby is because it doesn't contain chromium. Well, of course, the naive, un-gemstone-educated me wanted it. I paid $200 for the stone. I can't whip it out right now but I think it's about 4mm, about .75 carat. Years later I was curious. How could a sapphire be red? Then I found out about beryllium heating. I remember him saying something about heat. Did he swindle me? Or was the price fair? I have his number. I'm not very confrontational though. What would you do?

If it makes you feel any better, I think it’s a beautiful ring, and I would have gladly paid $400 for it. Think about what you pay in retail jewelry stores for much less attractive pieces (where the raw stone worth would be virtually nothing). Plus you’ve enjoyed it all these years.

 

[Shijitake]

How do you know now that it is BE treated?

If you look at that same page that made you think your stone was only worth $24, there is another sapphire of the same color that is 2.16 ct with a price of $2025 or $938 per ct. So if you base your stone on that, it is worth $703 and you got a great deal.

He said it was red because of how it was heated, rather than because of chromium. If there's another way of heating to turn sapphires red, then I guess it wasn't BE treatment.

I e-mailed him asking when he'll be in town and he answered. But then I asked him about the red sapphire and BE treatment and I got no answer.

 

[Shijitake]

If it makes you feel any better, I think it’s a beautiful ring, and I would have gladly paid $400 for it. Think about what you pay in retail jewelry stores for much less attractive pieces (where the raw stone worth would be virtually nothing). Plus you’ve enjoyed it all these years.

I agree. But from personal preference, if I had known, I would've saved my money for an untreated blue sapphire. The enjoyment felt like a "lie" after I thought it might be BE treatment. Imagine someone going out with you and treating you like a princess and you think he's the perfect guy only to find out it's because they like your beach house. Something like that.

But anyway the general consensus is to do nothing, which I will. Except maybe an honest review on his business.

 

[lilmosun]

I am not sure how you have jumped to the decision that it's been subjected to BE/lattice diffusion. You said he mentioned "heat" but that could also mean low heat, which is considered acceptable by most, even here. Since your memory is vague, he may have even said "no heat" (as I don't understand the "no chromium" without a lab report as I thought the red color is due to chromium) Even if BE treated etc, most are unaware of those treatments and rubies/sapphires with such treatments are sold all the time as natural.

Generally speaking, gemstones and jewelry are not investments. As one becomes more educated, it is natural to start questioning previous purchases. But you have to remember that you bought it because it was beautiful for a price that was worth your enjoyment factor...and that hasn't changed...so as others have said - you've bought it and need to stop questioning.

I've seen your other threads and it's easy to want to start building your collection aggressively as you learn more. But if you go too fast, you will miss the learning that happens with each piece - not just what PSers have to say but your own tastes, preferences and priorities. It's easy to get caught up but one thing I've learned is that with very few exceptions if patient, there will always be future opportunities to buy that make me forget the one(s) I missed or let go of. You mention that your jewelry budget is limited so it's even more important to take your time. I remember someone gave me the same advice when I joined here and it's true.

 

[Shijitake]

I am not sure how you have jumped to the decision that it's been subjected to BE/lattice diffusion. You said he mentioned "heat" but that could also mean low heat, which is considered acceptable by most, even here. Since your memory is vague, he may have even said "no heat" (as I don't understand the "no chromium" without a lab report as I thought the red color is due to chromium) Even if BE treated etc, most are unaware of those treatments and rubies/sapphires with such treatments are sold all the time as natural.

Generally speaking, gemstones and jewelry are not investments. As one becomes more educated, it is natural to start questioning previous purchases. But you have to remember that you bought it because it was beautiful for a price that was worth your enjoyment factor...and that hasn't changed...so as others have said - you've bought it and need to stop questioning.

I've seen your other threads and it's easy to want to start building your collection aggressively as you learn more. But if you go too fast, you will miss the learning that happens with each piece - not just what PSers have to say but your own tastes, preferences and priorities. It's easy to get caught up but one thing I've learned is that with very few exceptions if patient, there will always be future opportunities to buy that make me forget the one(s) I missed or let go of. I remember someone gave me the same advice when I joined here and it's true.

I jumped to that decision because it's the only information I found on how a sapphire could be red without chromium. You jumped to a few conclusions, though. My memory of it is not vague. I very well remember him saying that it was red without chromium, and that's why it's not a ruby. He said it was a true red sapphires. And then I remembered he said it was red because of the way it was heated (and I remember thinking, yes, you would not find that in a sapphire like you would chromium).

I did not choose it solely because it was beautiful. I asked him for sapphires. I wanted a blue or green one, and he showed me this red one claiming it was a rarely occurring natural phenomenon. When he told me the price, I was hesitant, but didn't want to miss out. The fact that I just got a job, I decided I'd be able to afford it and decided to go ahead.

I already stated I'm not doing anything.

 

[lovedogs]

I jumped to that decision because it's the only information I found on how a sapphire could be red without chromium. You jumped to a few conclusions, though. My memory of it is not vague. I very well remember him saying that it was red without chromium, and that's why it's not a ruby. He said it was a true red sapphires. And then I remembered he said it was red because of the way it was heated (and I remember thinking, yes, you would not find that in a sapphire like you would chromium).

I did not choose it solely because it was beautiful. I asked him for sapphires. I wanted a blue or green one, and he showed me this red one claiming it was a rarely occurring natural phenomenon. When he told me the price, I was hesitant, but didn't want to miss out. The fact that I just got a job, I decided I'd be able to afford it and decided to go ahead.

I already stated I'm not doing anything.

If you aren't going to do anything, but you also are going to ignore everyone's advice, then close this thread. It's pointless to continue going in circles.

 

[Shijitake]

If you aren't going to do anything, but you also are going to ignore everyone's advice, then close this thread. It's pointless to continue going in circles.

I'm not sure how I'm not following anyone's advice. Their advice is to do nothing, which is what I'm doing? I'm keeping the ring and enjoy it for whatever it's worth, I'm not going to call the guy, etc. Just answering their responses.

 

[cmd2014]

I agree. But from personal preference, if I had known, I would've saved my money for an untreated blue sapphire. The enjoyment felt like a "lie" after I thought it might be BE treatment. Imagine someone going out with you and treating you like a princess and you think he's the perfect guy only to find out it's because they like your beach house. Something like that.

But anyway the general consensus is to do nothing, which I will. Except maybe an honest review on his business.

I don’t think you can do an honest review of his business, because at this point you don’t know what you have or if what he told you was untrue. I’m seeing a lot of assumptions, and you’d want to be cautious about posting something potentially defamatory (for all sorts of reasons, not the least being that it’s an ugly thing to harm someone’s livelihood unless you know with certainty that you were actually swindled). Plus, if you are upset, the fair thing might be to give him the chance to address your concerns before doing anything else.

 

[YadaYadaYada]

I think it's great that you plan on enjoying the ring despite your questions about its possible treatment or authenticity.

Thought this was interesting, just goes to show you why a lab authentication is the only way to go to know for sure what you have. Obviously sometimes it doesn't make financial sense to do that and in those cases it's best to just appreciate it for its aesthetic.

 

[Lisa Loves Shiny]

It is a very pretty ring. I think most of us have bought something at one time believing it was valuable, then learning later that perhaps it was not monetarily worth the price we paid. It's a learning curve.

The good aspect of the gem is that you have worn it for years and it is in good shape. Many a beautiful gemstone cannot stand up to that type of wear, and are delegated to "occasional" wear to prevent damage. Also- there are many stories on these forums about jewelers who know very little about the gemstones they sell. So it is possible that your jeweler told you exactly what he believed the stone to be.

I hope you still enjoy the ring. There seems to be a lot of good memories associated with it and that is important.

 

[Shijitake]

I don’t think you can do an honest review of his business, because at this point you don’t know what you have or if what he told you was untrue. I’m seeing a lot of assumptions, and you’d want to be cautious about posting something potentially defamatory (for all sorts of reasons, not the least being that it’s an ugly thing to harm someone’s livelihood unless you know with certainty that you were actually swindled). Plus, if you are upset, the fair thing might be to give him the chance to address your concerns before doing anything else.

I don’t think you can do an honest review of his business, because at this point you don’t know what you have or if what he told you was untrue. I’m seeing a lot of assumptions, and you’d want to be cautious about posting something potentially defamatory (for all sorts of reasons, not the least being that it’s an ugly thing to harm someone’s livelihood unless you know with certainty that you were actually swindled). Plus, if you are upset, the fair thing might be to give him the chance to address your concerns before doing anything else.

Good point. However, I do believe he knew- he said that he mined and cut his stock himself. If he knew it was actually really rare he probably would've given it a higher price. But yeah, he possibly could've bought that stock. I could at least let buyers know to do a bit of search before they buy pricey items from him. Also, I did e-mail him asking about the red sapphire and BE treatment, and got no response. He did respond fairly quickly to e-mails about wanting to buy more from him though.

StephanieLynn- yeah, what's done is done. I just thought if I really was swindled, should I do something about it? Interesting pics.

Lisa RN- It's only in good condition because I only wear it at special events, about 1-3 times per year. None as of the last 2 though. So probably a total of 6-10 times? It's also set in 14k (I think). So, just me being paranoid that I'll lose it