What's going on with DanielM?

[makemepretty]

Geez, and people say I'm too kind. You women are being practically saints! An artist accepts jobs they can't complete in a timely fashion and continues to accept new jobs and you guys are worried about them. If they have real health problems then why are they accepting new jobs? They shouldn't be, they should be finishing up all the back orders first and letting people know they are backed up. Yes, they have children but don't most people who work?

I only just sent out my diamonds but after not receiving an e-mail letting me know they arrived and then not getting a response back when I inquired about them, I searched on here(Pricescope). I shouldn't have had to and he shouldn't have even accepted yet another job when you poor ladies have been waiting MONTHS.

 

[FrekeChild]

Seriously?

"They" have a real health problem, a pretty serious one, and they are accepting new jobs because they don't want to disappoint anyone.

This isn't their main job - they both work full time jobs, they have two children under 5, and etsy is their side business - one that was started so that they could spend time together doing something creative.

I think for a vendor (one that is very small scale, with a great reputation, btw) to have these kinds of circumstances, understanding from clients is not out of bounds.

 

[eastjavaman]

I agree with Chrono and MMP, it does sound cold, but in all fairness e-mail nowadays are ubiquitous, not to mention can be programmed "Out of Office" automatic reply feature to explain what is happening is needed sans explanation on their website, think of the convenience.
Tell me, honestly who has not replied their e-mails while doing their business or while browsing PS? Oops, am I the only one doing that? I think not
Not to mention our PSers here are prone to get into real health issues too stemming from this: anxiety attack for one, after waiting for 5 whole months for any news, I know that I, myself could not even stand 5 days.
Anyways, case solved, I wished them speedy recovery.

 

[LoversKites]

I definitely wish whoever is sick there a speedy recovery as well.

 

[LD]

Irrespective of what is going on or whether this is a side business/hobby etc., if you have a business where you are taking money, the best thing to do is to have an announcement on your page that there are delays due to health issues (or something pertinent). Silence isn't the answer. By letting everybody know about delays they won't be bombarded with requests, people will understand and more importantly will be patient (or go elsewhere if there are no other options).

 

[makemepretty]

Seriously?

"They" have a real health problem, a pretty serious one, and they are accepting new jobs because they don't want to disappoint anyone.

This isn't their main job - they both work full time jobs, they have two children under 5, and etsy is their side business - one that was started so that they could spend time together doing something creative.

I think for a vendor (one that is very small scale, with a great reputation, btw) to have these kinds of circumstances, understanding from clients is not out of bounds.

Yes, seriously. They are accepting new jobs because they don't want to disappoint anyone? They are disappointing EVERYONE. I will not be a repeat customer, I will now no longer recommend them. I could have had anyone do a simple job, if they had told me they were having problems I would have had a choice, now I don't have a choice as many others don't have a choice because they have everyones gemstones and diamonds, we NO LONGER HAVE A CHOICE. They did. I got a few e-mails from them when I inquired about having something done, are you telling me they couldn't have e-mailed back the ladies that were waiting when they e-mailed me taking on a new job? That's ridiculous.

I didn't know this was a hobby for them. How was I supposed to know that? How was I supposed to know they had serious health problems going on? It would have taken them ONE sentence in any of the replies they sent me...but they left that sentence out. I think you're sticking up for a couple you consider friends and aren't looking at them as a business, which they are. A small business is still a business especially if you continue to accept jobs AND money.

 

[FrekeChild]

Seriously?

"They" have a real health problem, a pretty serious one, and they are accepting new jobs because they don't want to disappoint anyone.

This isn't their main job - they both work full time jobs, they have two children under 5, and etsy is their side business - one that was started so that they could spend time together doing something creative.

I think for a vendor (one that is very small scale, with a great reputation, btw) to have these kinds of circumstances, understanding from clients is not out of bounds.

Yes, seriously. They are accepting new jobs because they don't want to disappoint anyone? They are disappointing EVERYONE. I will not be a repeat customer, I will now no longer recommend them. I could have had anyone do a simple job, if they had told me they were having problems I would have had a choice, now I don't have a choice as many others don't have a choice because they have everyones gemstones and diamonds, we NO LONGER HAVE A CHOICE. They did. I got a few e-mails from them when I inquired about having something done, are you telling me they couldn't have e-mailed back the ladies that were waiting when they e-mailed me taking on a new job? That's ridiculous.

I didn't know this was a hobby for them. How was I supposed to know that? How was I supposed to know they had serious health problems going on? It would have taken them ONE sentence in any of the replies they sent me...but they left that sentence out. I think you're sticking up for a couple you consider friends and aren't looking at them as a business, which they are. A small business is still a business especially if you continue to accept jobs AND money.

You basically accused them of lying about their health problems, which is a in my book.

I haven't said anything about what I think THEY should do with their business, just expressed my concern and empathy for their situation, as well as wished them the best and a speedy recovery.

Also, if you'd done some research, you'd know it was a hobby. For example:
http://lillyella.blogspot.com/2010/06/spotlight-daniel-m-jewelry.html

 

[makemepretty]

Where did I accuse them of lying about having health problems?????? Don't put words in my mouth Freke.

It's not a hobby, they are a business, ask the IRS.

I stated I didn't know they had health problems(because they never said so) and it shouldn't be used as an excuse anyway. Neither should having kids be used as a business excuse(your words that they have kids, I don't know them and have no knowledge of them having kids). I did say ...and I stand 100% behind this fact, that they found the time to accept new jobs and e-mail NEW customers and place a listing for new jobs but didn't have the time to e-mail back the MANY customers still waiting since February-June!!!!! It's amazing that they will e-mail you back but not their customers. Defend them all you want but they are in the wrong.

 

[Andelain]

Seriously?

"They" have a real health problem, a pretty serious one, and they are accepting new jobs because they don't want to disappoint anyone.

This isn't their main job - they both work full time jobs, they have two children under 5, and etsy is their side business - one that was started so that they could spend time together doing something creative.

I think for a vendor (one that is very small scale, with a great reputation, btw) to have these kinds of circumstances, understanding from clients is not out of bounds.

Yes, seriously. They are accepting new jobs because they don't want to disappoint anyone? They are disappointing EVERYONE. I will not be a repeat customer, I will now no longer recommend them. I could have had anyone do a simple job, if they had told me they were having problems I would have had a choice, now I don't have a choice as many others don't have a choice because they have everyones gemstones and diamonds, we NO LONGER HAVE A CHOICE. They did. I got a few e-mails from them when I inquired about having something done, are you telling me they couldn't have e-mailed back the ladies that were waiting when they e-mailed me taking on a new job? That's ridiculous.

I didn't know this was a hobby for them. How was I supposed to know that? How was I supposed to know they had serious health problems going on? It would have taken them ONE sentence in any of the replies they sent me...but they left that sentence out. I think you're sticking up for a couple you consider friends and aren't looking at them as a business, which they are. A small business is still a business especially if you continue to accept jobs AND money.

I have to agree with you on this one. Not accusing DanielM of anything, but I've seen way too many scams start off exactly like this is happening. They fall behind on orders, claim health issues, then finally abscond with money and customer's property. Like I said, not accusing, but am not at all comfortable that they kept taking orders when not finishing existing ones.

 

[FrekeChild]

If they have real health problems then why are they accepting new jobs? They shouldn't be, they should be finishing up all the back orders first and letting people know they are backed up. Yes, they have children but don't most people who work?

The bold implies that they are lying, since they are still trying to maintain business as usual. Your post (even just the bit copied above) is full of logical fallacy. There is no direct relationship between either being sick and maintaining work habits, or most people who work having children. Pretty sure most adults work, in general, whether they have children or not.

 

[makemepretty]

I never implied they are lying and if you took it that way, there is nothing I can say to change your mind but I did not type or say that they are lying. Implying is your opinion, not a fact. You were making excuses for them, they have small children, they do this as a hobby while they work two full time jobs, they have health issues..... I was just pointing out that excuses don't cut it, their actions are what I'm going by and they have said NOTHING to me or posted on Etsy on their page about any excuses for the delays and non communication.

I don't understand why someone who is having health problems would take on new jobs without finishing the ones that they are so far behind on, that's all I meant. Just like if I have 5 kids, I'm not going to offer to babysit some more if I'm already stressed out, you don't add to stress.

I'm not accusing them of anything...other than having some very bad business practices. Plus, since I am a new customer, they have taken money and my item and I have not heard a peep from them since doing so, I can do that Seeing that another customer has been waiting 5 months, that worries me greatly.

 

[digdeep]

If someone is ill or in a caretaker role that affects their work-- it is reasonable for that person to say they will be unavailable for a period of time to an employer, business associates, or patrons. They do not need to disclose what they are dealing with, but they can disclose the changes to their work schedule and the potential impacts on patrons. This is a realistic expectation........... it is disappointing that this vendor has not done this.

 

[VirginiaZee]

As a repeat customer, this behavior (lack of communication, exceedingly long wait times) is highly, highly unusual. Not defending, not making any suppositions, not saying it's good or even acceptable, just saying it's very unusual. As a side note, they've also gotten very popular (possibly from the rave reviews on here) and are a very small shop. Sometimes when businesses grow this much this quickly there are some bumps in the road - and when the business is this small manpower-wise, sometimes those bumps are painfully obvious. Add in some extenuating circumstances, and sometimes those bumps snowball... just to state the obvious. And yes, there are lessons to be learned here (mostly in managing customers' expectations and communication). As luck would have it, the collective "we" here are all part of that learning process.

 

[marymm]

As a repeat customer, this behavior (lack of communication, exceedingly long wait times) is highly, highly unusual. Not defending, not making any suppositions, not saying it's good or even acceptable, just saying it's very unusual. As a side note, they've also gotten very popular (possibly from the rave reviews on here) and are a very small shop. Sometimes when businesses grow this much this quickly there are some bumps in the road - and when the business is this small manpower-wise, sometimes those bumps are painfully obvious. Add in some extenuating circumstances, and sometimes those bumps snowball... just to state the obvious. And yes, there are lessons to be learned here (mostly in managing customers' expectations and communication). As luck would have it, the collective "we" here are all part of that learning process.

Also a repeat customer (in the past), and my experience is that long wait times and poor communication is actually not unusual for this vendor - it is not their usual approach but it has happened in the past more than once and usually it turns out they've unofficially closed their business for a couple of weeks for whatever reason but did not post anything on their website. They are not a new vendor and their popularity is not new. They dropped the ball, plain and simple. And despite this thread having been brought to their attention, their website still has not been updated with an "Announcement" notifying current and potential customers of the slow-down in communication and in project turnaround time and providing options for those who cannot (or choose not to) wait longer for pending projects. For me this is not acceptable business practices in an experienced vendor; others may be okay with it.

 

[pregcurious]

If they have real health problems then why are they accepting new jobs? They shouldn't be, they should be finishing up all the back orders first and letting people know they are backed up. Yes, they have children but don't most people who work?

The bold implies that they are lying, since they are still trying to maintain business as usual. Your post (even just the bit copied above) is full of logical fallacy. There is no direct relationship between either being sick and maintaining work habits, or most people who work having children. Pretty sure most adults work, in general, whether they have children or not.

Freke, you're one of my favorite posters. I think makemepretty meant "If they have real health problems then why are the accepting new jobs?" as a rhetorical question, contrasting two things that logically do not make sense together. Kind of like saying, "I'm not hungry so why am I eating this candy bar?'

I interpret makemepretty's statement as saying, because they have health problems and that is getting in the way of their work, they should not take on more work.

Dust to Daniel and his family. Daniel, please take a break from projects if you need to. They'll still be work when you get back on your feet. Us PSers aren't going anywhere with our addiction to jewelry!

 

[makemepretty]

Exactly what I meant. I forget rhetorical can't always come across in typed word. I meant no harm or accusations. Just that I truly did not understand their reasoning.

 

[pregcurious]

They might be overwhelmed and may not be able to take a step back and think through things. Just a guess.

 

[FrekeChild]

If they have real health problems then why are they accepting new jobs? They shouldn't be, they should be finishing up all the back orders first and letting people know they are backed up. Yes, they have children but don't most people who work?

The bold implies that they are lying, since they are still trying to maintain business as usual. Your post (even just the bit copied above) is full of logical fallacy. There is no direct relationship between either being sick and maintaining work habits, or most people who work having children. Pretty sure most adults work, in general, whether they have children or not.

Freke, you're one of my favorite posters. I think makemepretty meant "If they have real health problems then why are the accepting new jobs?" as a rhetorical question, contrasting two things that logically do not make sense together. Kind of like saying, "I'm not hungry so why am I eating this candy bar?'

I interpret makemepretty's statement as saying, because they have health problems and that is getting in the way of their work, they should not take on more work.

Dust to Daniel and his family. Daniel, please take a break from projects if you need to. They'll still be work when you get back on your feet. Us PSers aren't going anywhere with our addiction to jewelry!

The problem I have with her question has nothing to do with the "rhetorical" bit - it has to do with the inclusion of the word "real". "If they have health problems then why are the accepting new jobs?" delivers the message being discussed; adding "real" to it makes it seem as though makemepretty thinks they are lying about the health issue.

Frankly, it's none of anyone's business and they shouldn't have to go into detail about it to their customers. I have defended them, and I will continue to do so because they are good people who are having a very difficult time and I want to see them succeed. This thread is awful. Andelain is wondering if they are going to scam people, makemepretty is ready to string them up by their toenails, and I'm pretty disgusted at the tone of this thread right now. When this thread first started I got emails about it, guessing it would get nasty, and it has. It's not in the helpful spirit of PS.

They ARE aware of the issues going on, they ARE aware of this thread, and they ARE doing their best to fix it. I suggest that instead of posting more nasty stuff in this thread that you address them directly if you have a current project with them and are concerned about timing.

Enough with the witchhunt. CS has a vitriolic reputation for a reason.

 

[Ella]

Ladies please. Tone is not always related well online, please give posters the benefit of the doubt. The word real has multiple definitions.

 

[the_mother_thing]

I truly wish those who are ill a speedy recovery, and offer my sincerest well wishes. But I don't think MMP was insinuating falsehood by the business.

I also do not view accepting gemstones AND one's hard earned money as payment for performing a service to really be a "hobby". When you hold others' (strangers) valuables in your possession with the intent to provide a service for a fee, you ARE a business, albeit perhaps a small one, but a business nonetheless. And when you are holding others' valuables and/or money as a deposit for that service and run into unexpected delays, businesses have a duty to keep their customers informed. Maybe you can't get daily or even weekly updates to them, but you can be general in nature without divulging too much personal info/detail, and you really ought to let them know something before you accept more/new work. Personal feelings/relationships aside, that really is just the right thing to do by your customers, if you wish to retain them and their respect.

I think most of us are reasonable enough to understand that most etsy businesses are small and usually 1-2 person shops, and therefore I (at least) wouldn't expect turn around guarantees to the likes of a Blue Nile or Tiffany. But if I am promised something in, say, a month, and three more months passes with no update while my valuables & cash is held in limbo, I think I would have a VERY valid reason to be upset, especially if I saw new job acceptances while I am unexplainably "benched".

Just my $0.02.

 

[airdancer]

This forum is really easy on etsy vendors.

 

[SB621]

Oh Liz I'm so sorry to hear Daniel's family is having health concerns. I really hope it is nothing too serious and the children are all right. We all have young toddlers so my heart dropped when I read this thread. If they are reading this then I'm thinking of you and wishing for a speedy recovery.

 

[chrono]

Airdancer,
This forum is easy on PS favourite vendors, not necessarily just Etsy vendors. If it were a new-ish vendor, they would not be given such leeway as seen here. It took a while for some old Etsy favourites to fall out of favour in the past once their lead times started to approach the 1 year mark and pricing went up due to popularity.

 

[MustangGal]

As a repeat customer, this behavior (lack of communication, exceedingly long wait times) is highly, highly unusual. Not defending, not making any suppositions, not saying it's good or even acceptable, just saying it's very unusual. As a side note, they've also gotten very popular (possibly from the rave reviews on here) and are a very small shop. Sometimes when businesses grow this much this quickly there are some bumps in the road - and when the business is this small manpower-wise, sometimes those bumps are painfully obvious. Add in some extenuating circumstances, and sometimes those bumps snowball... just to state the obvious. And yes, there are lessons to be learned here (mostly in managing customers' expectations and communication). As luck would have it, the collective "we" here are all part of that learning process.

Also a repeat customer (in the past), and my experience is that long wait times and poor communication is actually not unusual for this vendor - it is not their usual approach but it has happened in the past more than once and usually it turns out they've unofficially closed their business for a couple of weeks for whatever reason but did not post anything on their website. They are not a new vendor and their popularity is not new. They dropped the ball, plain and simple. And despite this thread having been brought to their attention, their website still has not been updated with an "Announcement" notifying current and potential customers of the slow-down in communication and in project turnaround time and providing options for those who cannot (or choose not to) wait longer for pending projects. For me this is not acceptable business practices in an experienced vendor; others may be okay with it.

I also experinced slow communication, long wait time and delays with the one project I had done last year. Months of no contact is not acceptable. My thoughts are with the family, but this could have been communicated much better.

 

[VirginiaZee]

I also experinced slow communication, long wait time and delays with the one project I had done last year. Months of no contact is not acceptable. My thoughts are with the family, but this could have been communicated much better.

I must have just gotten lucky last year then, but from what you ladies are saying, this trend has been going on for quite some time. Agreed that the lack of communication (including the complete lack of updating their Etsy page) is unacceptable. I also find it odd that despite this thread they've done nothing on the communication front.

 

[makemepretty]

Kelli, have you tried contacting Etsy about DanielM violating their policies? He is not providing great customer service, he is not responding to customer conversations in a timely manner and you can point Etsy to this thread as proof. I don't think Etsy can get your money back or your items but they can contact DanielM and shut down the storefront until he starts complying. You know from this thread that he or his wife is checking e-mails and responding to friends and inquiries about new listings.

I sent two e-mails since paying and mailing out my items and he didn't respond to either one. However, before that he did have time to make a new listing for me and it sounds like a few others. There isn't a phone number to call on the site to directly contact him though. I'm sure Etsy has a way. Or they can at least suspend him from accepting new jobs.

Please ladies, post feedback about your experience, that's what feedback is for. It sounds like this has been going on since even last year, according to the posts.

I also just wanted to clarify, I type as I think and maybe it's a northern thing or a Michigan thing but I use the word REAL as a describing word, in that case I used it to say "serious" or "very bad":
Real:
adverb
NORTH AMERICAN
informal
1.
really; very.
"my head hurts real bad"

So imagine my confusion when I was accused of saying someone was lying. I had no idea what the heck that was about.

 

[cm366]

Kelli, I'm sorry you've had this bad experience and I hope it'll get better - I know several posters who have Dan's contact info have reached out to him on your behalf. I'm not sure what health issues Dan and Caren have, but I wish them well and hope you get some resolution, quickly. I've been stuck waiting on vendors who turned into poor communicators after they got my deposit, and it's a nervewracking and frustrating experience.

As far as being 'soft on vendors' - this is a crowdsourced opinion forum and LOTS of people here have good experiences with DanielM - of course they want to share them! If you post about a vendor who's not well liked, you'll get posts running them down, or at least describing bad experiences and commiserating.

It's worth noting that both the poster and the reader are on the hook for avoiding 'tone', which can (as so many have said) be difficult to interpret from text. I don't think this is a witch hunt, but it's generally valuable to stick with calm and temperate messages when we're discussing someone's livelihood or reputation.

Makemepretty, I wonder if your perspective is slightly different than mine because of your own professional experience? I note your LT listing describes you as an eBay vendor with more than 2000 items for sale and thousands of feedbacks, which would make you a lot more experienced in the trade of retail jewelry sales than many of our posters. I generally haven't found etsy customer support to be particularly interested in policing their 'crafters', but then I found Regretsy hilarious too.

http://loupetroop.com/listings/earrings/turquoise-diamond-earrings-wow-obo

 

[makemepretty]

My loupe troop listing should list that I'm on ebay with over 1,000 positive feedbacks ( online shopping over a decade, check my feedback they are 90% from buying very little as a seller but I've never ever in a decade had someone unhappy. I've had a heck of a lot of buying experiences. That's why this is so shocking to me. I'm not sure where you got your numbers??? I've never had more than 2 things for sale at a time I only sell what I've changed my mind about. Anyone who looks up something I sell can find I bought it for MORE on ebay and sold it for LESS on diamond bistro or loupe troop. Usually hundreds less, sadly. I have actually bought the same purse 3 times because I can't decide if I like it or I've had to sell it when my shopping funds were low. I did sell my earrings for $650.

No, that has nothing to do with my opinion of Daniel M. We are a self employed family and if my husband took a job and money and 5 months later a client couldn't get a hold of him and the job wasn't finished...ooooh boy, we'd be in court! I'm not kidding. That's beyond unprofessional, that's borderline criminal. Too many self employed business go out of business quickly...that and taking new jobs before finishing an existing job. Add in the fact that I AM a customer, who he has not contacted one iota since receiving my diamonds and a deposit. I won't use him again, obviously.

 

[tina sparkle]

I'm always surprised when people defend the indefensible. This vendor is 100% in the wrong and should stop taking on new orders, and people's money and gemstones, and finish the jobs that are outstanding, beginning with the OP's project that has been languishing since January. That's it, period, then they can begin to repair they're deservedly damaged reputation.

 

[makemepretty]

Ooooh, I think you confused me with the person I bought the earrings from. The link at the bottom of my louptroop listing is the actual auction that I purchased them from so people could see what I paid and that I was losing money selling them. Could that be it?