What's with all the firearms here?

[nala]

I am as always looking at this from an outside perspective.
- trying to understand analyze and learn.

It's very hard to understand for an onlooker why the Covid 19 measures are a partisan issue in the US. The importance of reopening of the economy is maybe a bit more stressed by conservative politicians in Europe. The quarantine measures, however, are not questioned. My in laws are as conservative as they come, my DHs beat friend is very right leaning (hunts, so also armed, which is exceptional over here) my sils friend is a Marxist (you read that right..they still exist) - nobody questions that it's their duty to stay at home for others' health. People who question the necessity are conspiracy theorists at the very fringe of society.

I like to learn too. So, is your government subsidizing all small business owners or providing economic relief to everyone so that they are not afraid to lose their house, health insurance and food? Because that is not the case for us here. How do you reconcile that some people’s lives are more valuable than others? I’m not even referring to health care workers only. I mean. Supermarket employees, for example. They are risking their lives as the rest of us privileged workers have the luxury of being compliant by staying home. How does that make you feel? Because I don’t know how your country is compensating these essentials. Have you resorted to growing your own food? Is there a public outrage in your country demanding that at stay at home privileged start growing their own crops to eliminate the need of risking an enormous amount of unnecessary deaths by keeping stores open? Or does your country also, you know, look the other way when we “ put ourselves at risk” to go grocery shopping for a few minutes while they are there for hours and days. Why are their lives expendable? What do your compliant friends say about that. They get paid such low wages as it is. Factory workers are another example. They can’t quit or they will lose their pay and not qualify for unemployment in the US. Many factory workers are deemed essential.

 

[eapj]

Because everything in the USA becomes a partisan issue. The press has a large part in this but still it is truth. Everything here becomes a partisan issue.

Sad but oh so true.

 

[MaisOuiMadame]

@nala yes, our governments do have a plan in place to help businesses and employees alike.

I am very very surprised at your upset about people staying at home if they are not deemed essential.

Where do you get that some people's lives are more valuable than other's?

You are not staying at home to protect yourself.

You are staying at home to protect others.

You need to stay at home to protect the courageous worker in the supermarket.

If you find not go there every day for a snickers and lingering the aisles you DO protect THEM.

My husband is not a healthcare worker. He is essential still. He is working in his office and different plants every day.

But he's not moving an inch out of his car / office /house otherwise. More traffic = more people in one place = more spread.

I don't understand your lOgic on this.

Just because some need to work out side their homes, everyone who could wfh should not, so everyone is at risk even more?

 

[Tekate]

Obese here so I can speak of obese peeps.

I think obesity puts a strain on one's heart, and the virus makes the heart work VERY hard and obese people already have this overworked heart and bingo, off I go (whoops I mean we go )

So when we get to the nitty gritty Alex, do skinny people get to live and fat people die? As a fat person (altho NO ONE would have the guts in my family to say that I'm fat ) I believe the right doesn't think so, they think I should sacrifice my life for my grandchildren (cause I'm fat of course).. I find these people abhorrent personally.

your Sunday must be getting close to dark so have a great evening!

Our Deputy Chief Medical Officer also made reference on tonight's live broadcast from Downing Street about obesity. Obviously all of these things are only coming to light with time due to it being a brand new disease, but obesity is now on their risk list. Also they're thinking the black & ethnic minorities might be more vulnerable (in the UK this group only make up 17% of hospitalised cases, but 34% of total deaths) because they are unable to absorb as much Vitamin D3 through their skin, and Vit D3 seems to offer some protection?

It's all very unknown right now & that's the worrying thing. Everybody needs to do their absolute BEST to stop this killer from spreading, as most people don't even know they're carrying it until it's too late for them or somebody they love. Keep washing those hands!

 

[Ally T]

Obese here so I can speak of obese peeps.

I think obesity puts a strain on one's heart, and the virus makes the heart work VERY hard and obese people already have this overworked heart and bingo, off I go (whoops I mean we go )

So when we get to the nitty gritty Alex, do skinny people get to live and fat people die? As a fat person (altho NO ONE would have the guts in my family to say that I'm fat ) I believe the right doesn't think so, they think I should sacrifice my life for my grandchildren (cause I'm fat of course).. I find these people abhorrent personally.

your Sunday must be getting close to dark so have a great evening!

I'm not familiar with the US politics of right & left, despite all the references in this thread, but I completely agree with you - anybody who says a certain person should live & another should die, is quite frankly, disgusting. Nobody ever has the right to make statements such as those. And I would be horribly upset if you even THOUGHT I would be insinuating any such thing, as that's what I'm picking up from your post.

I was merely reporting a new risk factor identified in the UK due to many of those who have sadly died. I think it's just vile, whether a victim is slim or fat, whatever their skin colour, underlying health conditions, social situations - these are ALL somebody's family & a lot of people are grieving.

 

[nala]

@nala yes, our governments do have a plan in place to help businesses and employees alike.

I am very very surprised at your upset about people staying at home if they are not deemed essential.

Where do you get that some people's lives are more valuable than other's?

You are not staying at home to protect yourself.

You are staying at home to protect others.

You need to stay at home to protect the courageous worker in the supermarket.

If you find not go there every day for a snickers and lingering the aisles you DO protect THEM.

My husband is not a healthcare worker. He is essential still. He is working in his office and different plants every day.

But he's not moving an inch out of his car / office /house otherwise. More traffic = more people in one place = more spread.

I don't understand your lOgic on this.

Just because some need to work out side their homes, everyone who could wfh should not, so everyone is at risk even more?

No. Don’t misinterpret my words. I am not upset bc we have to stay home. I am upset because as usual, the poor are paying the price because they are forced to work so that they can keep a roof over their heads. The fact that you or I stay home doesn’t mean that we don’t use toilet paper, soap, etc. We are consuming what essentials are risking their lives to produce. I dont understand how you missed that point. I’m trying to learn. How is your country providing for all of the essentials so that they can stay home? Are they mandating that essentials work less hours? Hiring more essentials so that their exposure is less?

 

[Queenie60]

Obese here so I can speak of obese peeps.

I think obesity puts a strain on one's heart, and the virus makes the heart work VERY hard and obese people already have this overworked heart and bingo, off I go (whoops I mean we go )

So when we get to the nitty gritty Alex, do skinny people get to live and fat people die? As a fat person (altho NO ONE would have the guts in my family to say that I'm fat ) I believe the right doesn't think so, they think I should sacrifice my life for my grandchildren (cause I'm fat of course).. I find these people abhorrent personally.

your Sunday must be getting close to dark so have a great evening!

I don't understand why you state that the right feels you should sacrifice your life because you're fat? Come on.......??? I'm not going to argue with you however that's a bit far fetched. I'm sure you'll come up with some sort of fact to prove me wrong. And I don't feel that Alex was singling you out at all, simply quoting the Medical Officer. Geeze.

 

[Ally T]

No. Don’t misinterpret my words. I am not upset bc we have to stay home. I am upset because as usual, the poor are paying the price because they are forced to work so that they can keep a roof over their heads. The fact that you or I stay home doesn’t mean that we don’t use toilet paper, soap, etc. We are consuming what essentials are risking their lives to produce. I dont understand how you missed that point. I’m trying to learn. How is your country providing for all of the essentials so that they can stay home? I’m trying to learn.

Here there have been over 3000 people recruited in the last few weeks to help keep supermarkets stocked, food deliveries being delivered, taking peoples medicines from the pharmacies to their homes & services running. Another 7000 have gone into voluntary unpaid roles for the NHS whilst they are furloughed from their day jobs, catering for hospital staff, acting as porters or disinfecting. These are all people who were deemed none essential, but who wanted to help in any way they could, actually putting themselves on the front line of risk to help others more vulnerable.

 

[redwood66]

Obese here so I can speak of obese peeps.

I think obesity puts a strain on one's heart, and the virus makes the heart work VERY hard and obese people already have this overworked heart and bingo, off I go (whoops I mean we go )

So when we get to the nitty gritty Alex, do skinny people get to live and fat people die? As a fat person (altho NO ONE would have the guts in my family to say that I'm fat ) I believe the right doesn't think so, they think I should sacrifice my life for my grandchildren (cause I'm fat of course).. I find these people abhorrent personally.

your Sunday must be getting close to dark so have a great evening!

I don't represent the right but I couldn't care less if you are fat. Your weight is none of my business.

 

[MaisOuiMadame]

Dear @nala please read my above post.

Essential workers are working. That's the definition.

Factory workers are getting protective gear and may only work is they can keep the required distance.
Amazon did not take adequate measures for their employees and is CLOSED now.

Essential has NOTHING to do with social status at all.

Neither in Europe nor in the US.

People who stay at home to work protect those who cannot do their work from home.

I have said this above: my husband is working. His whole company of engineers is working.
My cleaning lady is not. She gets her salary from me and I will get 80 % of that back with my taxes. This was decided within about three days by the French government. Similar programs are in place for different models of employment - in many countries.

I'm a bit surprised about your aggression towards me.
I clearly triggered you with my sentence that I'm "trying to learn". Sorry that's something that ticked you off so badly.

 

[nala]

Dear @nala please read my above post.

Essential workers are working. That's the definition.

Factory workers are getting protective gear and may only work is they can keep the required distance.
Amazon did not take adequate measures for their employees and is CLOSED now.

Essential has NOTHING to do with social status at all.

Neither in Europe nor in the US.

People who stay at home to work protect those who cannot do their work from home.

I have said this above: my husband is working. His whole company of engineers is working.
My cleaning lady is not. She gets her salary from me and I will get 80 % of that back with my taxes. This was decided within about three days by the French government. Similar programs are in place in many countries.

I'm a bit surprised about your aggression towards me.
I clearly triggered you with my sentence that I'm "trying to learn". Sorry that's something that ticked you off so badly.

You like to assume. Never mind. Have a great day.

 

[MaisOuiMadame]

Great that you don't assume anything @nala !

 

[nala]

Latinos disproportionately dying, losing jobs because of the coronavirus: 'Something has to change'

Latinos are disproportionately suffering from the coronavirus because of a combination of factors, including working in low-paying front-line jobs.

news.yahoo.com

This. Poverty is another risk factor that many don’t want to acknowledge from the comfort of their compliance with stay at home. And no—That doesn’t mean that I’m advocating for an end to the quarantine. I’m trying to share a different perspective that isn’t as privileged and can’t afford to stay home. Ask yourself, would you keep your quarantine if these essentials stopped working and you no longer had access to basic needs? Would preventing infection still be your priority? For those of you can’t follow my logic- I will spell it out. Get off your high horse and stop judging people. If these protests are organized by some Republican Party, as some have theorized, my heart goes out to the pawns that they are utilizing or recruiting because maybe, just maybe, they are the ones who don’t have the luxury of staying home and still feeding themselves. They probably rationalize—Why not take a risk if their outlook is just as bleak? Where is the empathy as people ridicule these misguided souls with memes and basically condemn them for taking a different approach to yours, but probably not so different for them in their circumstances?

 

[Queenie60]

We hear your opinions, and we prefer to point out the factual inaccuracies. Do I think facts are superior to uninformed opinions? Certainly.

The facts as you see them

 

[redwood66]

Dear God the hubris. Astounding. Don't bother @Queenie60.

 

[kenny]

A person could state, "IMO it's okay to murder babies and eat them."

So much for all opinions being equal.
There is right, and there is wrong.

 

[arkieb1]

@nala - if you can be bothered to read my post in a non confrontational way (because I am intentionally not writing anything here that is aimed at you or anyone else in this post)...

The US government is one of the worst at supporting the poor and the elderly in general, European nations tax everyone in their societies at much higher rates than the US does, Australia taxes it's citizens at much higher rates than the US does.

What that means is that we have welfare systems that pay people more money to maintain a higher and better standard of living if they are poor, sick and cannot work, than the US does before this crisis hit us.

When the virus happened, the Australian Government followed by the New Zealand Government put in place some of the earliest, toughest economic measures. Per population I think Australia has more people out of work than the US does because of the Virus. So the government here has made extra payments to anyone that lost their jobs, they set up programs for workers that lost jobs in the airline industry to apply for and get jobs in supermarkets. They gave financial aid to struggling businesses.

When that still wasn't enough they did another round of financial packages to help everyone in society, and then another, they worked out companies had to fire staff, so they gave businesses (rather than their employees) payments for wages for people that are not working at all, to be retained or to stay as employees on their books ie keep being paid AND keep their jobs.

The government put pressure on all banks here to suspend loan payments on things like houses and small businesses, meaning that everyone here that chooses not to make those payments doesn't have to and will not be penalised in any way for not doing so for a period of 6 months.

Our society will eventually start loosening it's strict quarantine measures in the next month or two because compared to the rest of the world we have low death rates and contained infection numbers.

As soon as those numbers start to rise again, I think they will put stricter measures back in place and when they get down to being nearly nil infection rates per day for a sustained period of time, ease them again and so on until a vaccine is widely available to everyone.

The herd immunity response has been studied in other places, it works when you have a very young population, a very healthy, fit population, and you can effectively quarantine the sick, elderly and people deemed "at risk." The US however has none of those things. It means that elderly should be locked down, the sick and any "at risk" people will need to follow strict lockdown measures at least initially, to avoid dying.

This disease loves overweight people, it loves unhealthy people, it kills the obese, the overweight, and anyone over 50+ to varying degrees. If people are under 50 and do not have issues such as obesity, diabetes, heart disease, asthma, and issues with diseases that impact their immune systems then their chances of dying are much lower, not zero, but way lower than people who do have these things.

For poor people that means the virus might be a double whammy in the US, not only do those people need to go to work to be able to afford basic necessities that your state and federal governments should be providing for these people, they are statistically more likely to have undiagnosed heath issues that could be impacted by this virus. This is why I think, some poorer communities will be impacted at higher % levels than people that can afford to stay at home or that know about their health issues.

So if you adopt a herd immunity response, the poor, the elderly and the sick will be the most impacted by that response.

 

[JPie]

The facts as you see them

Well, here’s what I saw. Callie asked you a question during Holy Week. You responded by saying you felt that you were being shamed.

These are the responses to your post. Your response to their kindness has been to return and continue to complain that the liberals here won’t listen to you.

So the fact of the matter as I see it is that regardless of how kindly you’re treated by liberals here, you will only choose to interpret any response as a personal attack on your opinions.

Please do not feel that everyone who is "on the other side of the aisle" somehow holds you in contempt! My political views often differ from yours, but my views of human situations are often very similar. I never viewed you as an adversary!

When Demon posted her photo, I saw nothing disrespectful in it. I did not see anything in it that was directed at Holy Week. I think that her intent was humanistic.

When you posted, however, I understood your point of view. It is Holy Week (although it doesn't feel like it to me). I will not be able to see my family at Easter as I always do. And I certainly understand that you could be affected by sights seen by you as a person of faith.

I just hope that we can give each other the benefit of the doubt. In general, most Pricescopers are caring people.

@Queenie60 I just want you to know I don't think of you as that at all. I think of you as a caring and lovely PSer and it is OK we don't all share all the same views.

I agree it is a lot of sad and depressing stuff right now. And we all process and handle stress differently. There is no one right or wrong way. And fwiw I hope you know many of us care about you here.




I should have just dittoed @AGBF and her wise post.

Hi,

Its a funny thing how we tend to lean toward some people over others. I too, think of Callie and Tekate often; Callie for her straightforward writing and Tekate for her humility. Very few people would give credit to NYC for giving them/her a chance at an education. NYC did the same for me.

As Deb has said most PSers are nice people, decent people, even those with opposing opinions.. I believe DT is a bad man, you do not see it that way. While it is hard to defend oneself when you are in the minority, as you are on here,you must learn not to take this personally. Being a Republican or a Democrat is not the core of life for most of us. These are the worst of times, at least in my lifetime.
I learned that I post what I think and try not to engage in back and forth. I just want to express myself. On occasion when someone wants to argue, I just don't reply. If others want to discuss and argue, they do. But you don't have to engage either. State your thoughts and leave it at that if you want.

It is Holy Week and I wish we could all be like that man on the cross. I am an atheist, but recognize goodness and love. Those are the fundamentals of life. Its what I can see in others when I look. But everyone on here ought to be able to state their views. You are not our whipping boy. Just don't engage back when you feel you can't.

Happy Easter

Annette

I wasn’t shaming you or calling you a money hungry republican @Queenie60. This administration had months to prepare and didn’t. Our country will lose so many people due to the president and his administration‘s incompetence. That is shameful. It would be equally shameful if Trump were a Democrat.

Most of us are concerned for our loved ones and our friends. There are going to be so many people that need help when this is over. I hope we are all there helping each other.

 

[JPie]

A person could state, "IMO it's okay to murder babies and eat them."

So much for all opinions being equal.
There is right, and there is wrong.

Well, it would help with overpopulation and reduce carbon emissions.

Evil liberal JPie wants to eat your babies!

 

[House Cat]

Protest coordination is a bad thing now? Better tell those pink hat groups.

What I have been noticing around my parts, and it makes my skin crawl...my governor tells us what a great job we are doing at flattening the curve while converting old stadiums into hospitals. He’s preparing for us to open, while preparing for us to get sick and die. People are protesting not being able to get their hair done but they aren’t protesting this? They aren’t protesting opening too early? They aren’t protesting being viewed as disposable for the sake of propping up the economy? If anything is worth putting one’s life on the line for a protest it is our safety, not the right to buy seeds.

 

[Dancing Fire]

I don't understand why you state that the right feels you should sacrifice your life because you're fat? Come on.......??? I'm not going to argue with you however that's a bit far fetched. I'm sure you'll come up with some sort of fact to prove me wrong.

I hope not!. Think I gained at least 5 lbs since the lockdown.

 

[redwood66]

What I have been noticing around my parts, and it makes my skin crawl...my governor tells us what a great job we are doing at flattening the curve while converting old stadiums into hospitals. He’s preparing for us to open, while preparing for us to get sick and die. People are protesting not being able to get their hair done but they aren’t protesting this? They aren’t protesting opening too early? They aren’t protesting being viewed as disposable for the sake of propping up the economy? If anything is worth putting one’s life on the line for a protest it is our safety, not the right to buy seeds.

Well good luck with your opening. Grandma is staying in her house thank goodness, Sis and BIL both essential so they are driving from EG to Solano every day. The positive is the commute doesn't suck like usual.

 

[Queenie60]

Well, here’s what I saw. Callie asked you a question during Holy Week. You responded by saying you felt that you were being shamed.

These are the responses to your post. Your response to their kindness has been to return and continue to complain that the liberals here won’t listen to you.

So the fact of the matter as I see it is that regardless of how kindly you’re treated by liberals here, you will only choose to interpret any response as a personal attack on your opinions.

I'm glad you find me to be so interesting. Took a lot of time to pull those out. I was not complaining about the liberals, just answering a post and making a statement based on my opinion.

 

[JPie]

I'm glad you find me to be so interesting. Took a lot of time to pull those out. I was not complaining about the liberals, just answering a post and making a statement based on my opinion.

That’s a liberal for you - we like to take the time to back up our statements with facts.

 

[Demon]

Well, it would help with overpopulation and reduce carbon emissions.

Evil liberal JPie wants to eat your babies!

I hear they're yummy. Especially deep fried.

 

[kenny]

Well, it would help with overpopulation and reduce carbon emissions.

Evil liberal JPie wants to eat your babies!

Actually, that's a good point.

So what are we left with?
I think there are no absolutes.
Every opinion, instead of being right or wrong, is complex and multifaceted.

Just seems to me ... this whole opinion-defense has lots of holes in it when arguing.

 

[kenny]

I think it's okay to point out the downsides of somone's opinion.
But I think it's not okay to defend one's opinion by saying, "I'm entitled to my opinion." or "We just have different opinions."

I think it's superduper legit to point out when, and how exactly, someone is using their opinion as if it were a fact.

I think it is easy for all of us to form strong passionate opinions that somehow, in our brains, morph into what we see as facts.

 

[mary poppins]

Protest coordination is a bad thing now? Better tell those pink hat groups.

Nobody in this thread said protest coordination is a bad thing (at least after my posts, haven't ready earlier yet but feel free to show me where it exists if it does). In addition, the example you cite is not comparable.

Who is coordinating the current protects, and who is hiding behind the astroturfing?

Coordinators of the pink pussy hat were very transparent, and their actions did not harm or potentially harm others. https://www.pussyhatproject.com/our-story

 

[redwood66]

Nobody in this thread said protest coordination is a bad thing (at least after my posts, haven't ready earlier yet but feel free to show me where it exists if it does). In addition, the example you cite is not comparable.

Who is coordinating the current protects, and who is hiding behind the astroturfing?

Coordinators of the pink pussy hat were very transparent, and their actions did not harm or potentially harm others. https://www.pussyhatproject.com/our-story

Why do you care so much about who is doing it? I could not care less who coordinates the pink hatters or these protesters. So some dude in a basement designs websites.

ETA - they are both protests so one is not more valid or altruistic than the other. Harm is in the eye of the beholder. FTR I think they are stupid for not adhering to social distancing but maybe that is their point as well, I don't know or try to ascribe motive like others do.

 

[OreoRosies86]

That’s a liberal for you - we like to take the time to back up our statements with facts.

You brought the receipts