When do you certify?

[MakingTheGrade]

I'm waffling a little on sending my new sapphire to the AGL. It's the perfect color for me, clearly natural via the inclusions, and bought from a well respected PS gem vendor who I've ordered from before. It was sold as heat treated, which I'm fine with, my only concern was with Beryllium.

So I'm waffling because for the price paid for the stone, I'm wondering if it's worth getting the report since I don't plan on insuring it or selling it, and it wasn't being passed as unheated, nor is it one of the pink/oranges that seem to be more popular targets of beryllium treatment. It was also bought back in 2006. The report could potentially be almost 1/3 the cost of the stone since it might be an extra 100$ to test for beryllium is it isn't immediately obvious via traditional tests the do for the gem brief.

I was wondering how you guys decide when to send something for testing?

 

[1001smiles]

I might have misunderstood, but I think GIA offers a BE test for $30. So if that's the only thing you are concerned about, it may be not too expensive. But I could be wrong about this. If you do decide to look into it, please let us know what you find out.

 

[T L]

I'm waffling a little on sending my new sapphire to the AGL. It's the perfect color for me, clearly natural via the inclusions, and bought from a well respected PS gem vendor who I've ordered from before. It was sold as heat treated, which I'm fine with, my only concern was with Beryllium.

So I'm waffling because for the price paid for the stone, I'm wondering if it's worth getting the report since I don't plan on insuring it or selling it, and it wasn't being passed as unheated, nor is it one of the pink/oranges that seem to be more popular targets of beryllium treatment. It was also bought back in 2006. The report could potentially be almost 1/3 the cost of the stone since it might be an extra 100$ to test for beryllium is it isn't immediately obvious via traditional tests the do for the gem brief.

I was wondering how you guys decide when to send something for testing?

I would send a sapphire to AGL based on one or more of the following conditions

1) It was an expensive stone
2) You need peace of mind
3) If they ever figure out a way to treat a stone and it's not detectable, then the lab report is insurance that you bought it at a time when such treatments did not exist - if this is something you're concerned about. As far as I know, at this time, all corundum treatments are detectable, even if some tests are more expensive than others. Who knows about the future, and the fact that you bought it from a reputable seller is not the same guarantee as having that AGL report.
4) It's a stone you feel is worth a lab report, as who knows, as time and circumstances change, you may want to part with it, or your heirs.

My gemologist friend who studies and informs about gem treatment said that blue sapphires are treated with beryllium in great abundance in Thailand, and now in Sri Lanka (the Sri Lankans are doing it without having to send them to Thailand first). It's not just the orange or pink sapphires anymore, so buyer beware.

ETA: BTW, the various labs do not "certify" anything, they give an opinion based on the findings of a gemologist, so it is a report, not a certification. There are some labs that don't even use a gemologist, but a "gemologist in training" so beware of those. Therefore, it is important to send corundum to the labs with the highest reputations for colored stones, and honestly, I only trust AGL for corundum.

 

[Pandora II]

I'm waffling a little on sending my new sapphire to the AGL. It's the perfect color for me, clearly natural via the inclusions, and bought from a well respected PS gem vendor who I've ordered from before. It was sold as heat treated, which I'm fine with, my only concern was with Beryllium.

So I'm waffling because for the price paid for the stone, I'm wondering if it's worth getting the report since I don't plan on insuring it or selling it, and it wasn't being passed as unheated, nor is it one of the pink/oranges that seem to be more popular targets of beryllium treatment. It was also bought back in 2006. The report could potentially be almost 1/3 the cost of the stone since it might be an extra 100$ to test for beryllium is it isn't immediately obvious via traditional tests the do for the gem brief.

I was wondering how you guys decide when to send something for testing?

If there are inclusions that signify natural and the vendor is experiences and states heat-only then I would be completely happy. The temperatures needed for Be diffusion involve heating the stone to just below melting point and the typical inclusions are majorly altered by this.

I wouldn't spend the extra money.

I'd be amazed if GIA do Be testing for that cheap a price. The test is time consuming and the machines are many hundreds of thousands of dollars and so they have to charge enough to cover overheads.

 

[T L]

I'm waffling a little on sending my new sapphire to the AGL. It's the perfect color for me, clearly natural via the inclusions, and bought from a well respected PS gem vendor who I've ordered from before. It was sold as heat treated, which I'm fine with, my only concern was with Beryllium.

So I'm waffling because for the price paid for the stone, I'm wondering if it's worth getting the report since I don't plan on insuring it or selling it, and it wasn't being passed as unheated, nor is it one of the pink/oranges that seem to be more popular targets of beryllium treatment. It was also bought back in 2006. The report could potentially be almost 1/3 the cost of the stone since it might be an extra 100$ to test for beryllium is it isn't immediately obvious via traditional tests the do for the gem brief.

I was wondering how you guys decide when to send something for testing?

If there are inclusions that signify natural and the vendor is experiences and states heat-only then I would be completely happy. The temperatures needed for Be diffusion involve heating the stone to just below melting point and the typical inclusions are majorly altered by this.

I wouldn't spend the extra money.

I'd be amazed if GIA do Be testing for that cheap a price. The test is time consuming and the machines are many hundreds of thousands of dollars and so they have to charge enough to cover overheads.

It could still be fracture filled or irradiated, even with inclusions that show only low heat, or no heat. They're coating, irradiating, filling sapphires these days.

 

[MakingTheGrade]

Thanks for the opinions, of course I'm aware that there are many treatments out there, but at the same time, I don't feel inclined to send in every sapphire I might buy, so I'm still figuring out where that tipping point for me is in terms of emotional/financial investment in a stone before I feel like getting it graded. Even paying 50$ every time I buy a 300$ stone could add up in the long run. This isn't a stone for an ering, or an heirloom, nor was it claimed to be unheated or of rare origin/color. And I trust Brad as an experienced and honor vendor, but then again, there's the age old "trust but verify". I asked him what precautions he takes when sourcing these stones, and he says it's a mix between in house equipment and testing, and buying from reliable sources that he's worked with for a long time. Haha, the stone certainly has natural inclusions. Yeah, I'd be more concerned if it was a "too good to be true" kind of circumstance, but the stone definitely has a beauty mark or two that I can discern.

 

[T L]

Thanks for the opinions, of course I'm aware that there are many treatments out there, but at the same time, I don't feel inclined to send in every sapphire I might buy, so I'm still figuring out where that tipping point for me is in terms of emotional/financial investment in a stone before I feel like getting it graded. Even paying 50$ every time I buy a 300$ stone could add up in the long run. This isn't a stone for an ering, or an heirloom, nor was it claimed to be unheated or of rare origin/color. And I trust Brad as an experienced and honor vendor, but then again, there's the age old "trust but verify". I asked him what precautions he takes when sourcing these stones, and he says it's a mix between in house equipment and testing, and buying from reliable sources that he's worked with for a long time. Haha, the stone certainly has natural inclusions. Yeah, I'd be more concerned if it was a "too good to be true" kind of circumstance, but the stone definitely has a beauty mark or two that I can discern.

Diffused stones can have natural inclusions as well. If it has silk, or intact rutile needles, it probably isn't diffused, although it could still be heated (low heat), or undergo irradiation, coating, filling.

I think you're leaning against sending it. While I don't send out certain stones like spinels, chrysoberyls, tourmalines (which I stopped buying), and others, I do make the exception for corundum as they are some of the most treated stones there are. If you plan on buying lots of sapphires and rubies in the future, it can definitely add up, but if you only buy one every great once in a while, then it's not as much of a financial sacrifice. I do not think everyone needs to send every single stone to a lab, especially when some have natural inclusions, and aren't heavily treated (like spinel). I also don't think it's necessary to send out inexpensive sapphires either. What is inexpensive is subjective to the person who has bought it. I sent a $120 sapphire to AGL for $200 worth of testing and S&H, but I thought it was worth it. While some people may think I was nuts, I thought the stone was way too inexpensive for what it was, and I wanted to make sure it was "kosher" so to speak.

 

[chrono]

Will knowing the result of the test make you love the stone any more or less? Do you need it for your peace of mind? You have no intention of selling it or insuring it. It was purcased back in 2006 so the return period is clearly expired. If it is for the peace of mind, the $25 brief could well suffice if there are inclusions that show a "low" heat only treatment because diffusion requires greater temperatures which changes the appearance of its internal structure.

 

[pregcurious]

I agree with Chrono. It also comes down to piece of mind.

 

[ChrisA222]

A question just popped into my head....the OP mentioned buying the stone in 2006. I have a few sapphires that I bought recently that have certs "natural sapphire" that are dated in 1999.

At what point was BE being diffused into Sapphires? Before 2006? Before 1999? I know heating has been done to sapphires since..well, forever...but when did the rest of this crap begin?

 

[MakingTheGrade]

Sorry, just to clarify. I bought the stone last week, Brad bought it back in 2006.

 

[Pandora II]

A question just popped into my head....the OP mentioned buying the stone in 2006. I have a few sapphires that I bought recently that have certs "natural sapphire" that are dated in 1999.

At what point was BE being diffused into Sapphires? Before 2006? Before 1999? I know heating has been done to sapphires since..well, forever...but when did the rest of this crap begin?

It first hit the market in around 2001 - a load of orange and padmaraga sapphires hit the market in quantities that were just impossible. I remember attending a lecture at the Jan 2002 Vicenza gold fair on the subject and it was big news at the time.

Initially it was only surface diffusion and pretty easy to detect with relatively simple tests. However they got better at it and now whole stones are diffused right through. In a way this is good as the treatment is permanent and stable - with the surface diffused stones there were problems when stones were repolished or recut and the colour literally vanished.

ETA. AFAIK only yellow, brown an grey sapphires are ever irradiated. Fracture filling is extremely easy to spot using reflected light and a loupe. So I wouldn't worry about either of those.

 

[T L]

A question just popped into my head....the OP mentioned buying the stone in 2006. I have a few sapphires that I bought recently that have certs "natural sapphire" that are dated in 1999.

At what point was BE being diffused into Sapphires? Before 2006? Before 1999? I know heating has been done to sapphires since..well, forever...but when did the rest of this crap begin?

It first hit the market in around 2001 - a load of orange and padmaraga sapphires hit the market in quantities that were just impossible. I remember attending a lecture at the Jan 2002 Vicenza gold fair on the subject and it was big news at the time.

Initially it was only surface diffusion and pretty easy to detect with relatively simple tests. However they got better at it and now whole stones are diffused right through. In a way this is good as the treatment is permanent and stable - with the surface diffused stones there were problems when stones were repolished or recut and the colour literally vanished.

ETA. AFAIK only yellow, brown an grey sapphires are ever irradiated. Fracture filling is extremely easy to spot using reflected light and a loupe. So I wouldn't worry about either of those.

Pandora,
Do you know what is the outcome of the irradiation, does it change the color entirely to something else, make it clear, etc. . . . ?
Thanks

 

[jstarfireb]

I'm no expert, but I don't think I'd have it tested. You bought it from a very trusted and well-respected vendor, which I think is the most important fact here. It's also not going into a particularly sentimental piece like an engagement ring. You're not planning to sell it (i.e. use the lab report to command a higher price). If it wasn't that expensive to begin with, and the testing isn't cheap, I'd save the extra money and accept the vendor's description.

 

[T L]

I'm no expert, but I don't think I'd have it tested. You bought it from a very trusted and well-respected vendor, which I think is the most important fact here. It's also not going into a particularly sentimental piece like an engagement ring. You're not planning to sell it (i.e. use the lab report to command a higher price). If it wasn't that expensive to begin with, and the testing isn't cheap, I'd save the extra money and accept the vendor's description.

While I see it has some natural inclusions, I wouldn't trust that a stone is natural or untreated simply because the vendor is trusted. Vendors can be duped by their own sources, especially with corundum. I'm not talking Brad specifically but ANY trusted vendor. This is why many trusted vendors still offer to supply lab reports. They're not only protecting the consumer, but themselves as well.