Which round diamond should I buy? $9-10k price ~ Size 8

[yssie]

I really like the diamond you posted. Found a couple more that seem nice as well. Tell me if you think the one you mentioned earlier is still the best value for the money. I've been told 10k isn't set in stone but I don't want to get too crazy either.

1.78 J VS1 $12,090
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1307891.asp?b=16&a=12&c=77&cid=131 nice IS, would request hearts retake

1.8 I VS2 $12,139
https://www.idjewelryonline.com/diamond_more1.php?id=27184511
IMO AGS' performance-based cut grading makes it worthy of further investigation if you are interested, but it is not sold as a H&A stone if that is important to you.

2.01 J SI1 $10,832
http://idjewelryonline.com/diamond_details1.php?id=24262597
AGS dqr, not dqd, so different set of requirements for the 0 cut grade. DQR is proportions-based standard like GIA, no light performance ray tracing simulation, treat it like a GIA document. Could be nice by the numbers, need more info from a full scan or pictures.

I'm learning A LOT! Thank you! (You're right - I am a bit perplexed but THRILLED I didn't buy a darn EGL graded stone!)

 

[kybridetobe]

I've made inquiries into a couple of the online stones and made a trip to the B&M today to look at the H VS1 1.5 carat Ideal cut diamond again. I hadn't inquired about larger stones last time so I wanted to see what they had close to 2 carats and they showed me a diamond that I hadn't even considered as far as the cut (just learned of it today) yet it has really grown on me today also. This stone is a 2.46 carat K SI1 European transition cut and just a beautiful diamond as well. I don't have much information other than these iphone photos but am looking for input on this cut versus the ideal one. The facets are larger on the larger stone and it is just a beautifully clear stone with a minimal clear bubble on the edge that I could barely see with the loupe. The larger diamond would be about $1500 higher than the 1.5 carat.

Thoughts on either?

This is the H VS1 ideal cut 1.5 carat GIA cert


And the 2.46 carat K SI1 European transition cut


Then a side-by-side comparison


I know I'm going outside the grading parameters with emotion and visual appeal at this point but I think my fiance will want to buy locally and so I'm trying to look at what options lie at the B&M while investigating online diamond options as well.

 

[kybridetobe]

Update on our engagement ring diamond search. We went to look at the b&M and my honey did not like the darker tint of the larger transition cut diamond. We determined that purchasing that ring may cause me to be explaining the color each time someone asks about my diamond - which I definitely don't want. I initially wanted an ideal cut round and that is what I still want.

On the other diamond I'd mentioned previously - the 1.5 carat "ideal" cut round GIA cert - the B&M did not have the cert and had to order it. I was able to obtain the order number and access the report online; however, I wanted to run the diamond through the Holloway Cut Advisor but do not see the crown angle/% and pavilion angle/% on this report.

The web address for the GIA online report is: http://www2.gia.edu/reportcheck.. Report number is 13644087 and the carat weight is 1.51.

Finally got the stats on the 1.6 carat EGL USA diamond I've been viewing also. It came up a .9 on the Holloway Cut Advisor (if I'm putting the data in correctly) which seems great as well.

H VS2 7.5x7.47x4.6 Ideal plus with hearts and arrows
Table is 58%
Depth 61.5%
Crown angle 15.1%
Pavilion depth is 42.7%
No flor Ex Polish and symmetry

This B&M has found an 1.52 carat I SI1 AGS Triple O diamond that she is going to bring into the store for me as well. I've heard great things about the AGS 000 stones as well. Does anyone have opinions on which of these diamonds to choose?

 

[kybridetobe]

The AGS certed diamond is a Triple 000 1.523 I SI1 with the following stats:

Table 57.3%
Depth 61.4%
Crown 35 degrees
Pavilion 40.9 degrees

I show it to be a 2 on the Holloway Cut Advisor using the crown and pavilion angles rather than the %s. It is showing Very Good on those stats on the HCA.

Is MissGotRocks or anyone available to look at these with me to see which one looks best - or if I'd do better online.

All of these are right at $10,000.

Thanks!

 

[yssie]

QUestions and comments:

1. Are they selling the 1.51 GIA as a used stone? If they are selling it as "new" and asking a "new stone" price you should require that they send it in for re-cert. Cert is old - re-2005 reports don't have cut info, but more importantly IMO this stone is likely a trade-in and the report tells you of the condition of the stone when it was purchased back in '04, not the condition now. A poorly maintained stone may have acquired some scratches or chips that might lower the clarity grade for example, or need to be buffed out before the stone is worthy of a "new stone price".

Alternatively if you love the stone and you cannot negotiate a re-certing deal with the vendor you could make the sale contingent on an independent appraisal (appraiser of your choosing) confirming no red flags.

2. It can be hard to remember, but a stone is the same stone whether it is sent to GIA, AGS, EGL, IGI, or no lab at all.. there is nothing automatically inherently wrong with a stone with an EGL report - it is the EGL report that is the issue.
-Some vendors have different upgrade/buyback/return/trade-in policies for stones w/ EGL reports, something to investigate prior to purchase
-EGL-USA has a reputation for rather inflated colour grading compared to AGS or GIA. EGL-I has a reputation for being worse than EGL-USA. We can't say that an EGL-USA G would be a GIA H - it could be a GIA G, it could be a GIA H, but the uncertainty means that you should not be paying a GIA G price for this stone, all else equal.

3. AGS stone - do you have the report number? What report from AGS does it come with - there are several, I think two more popular are the diamond quality document and the diamond quality report, both will grade cut starting with 0 for best but the requirements and specifications for "best" are different. How old is the report? An AGS0 w/ the DQD report with 3-D light performance analysis goes straight into my "interested to pursue" box, so long as report was issued after last ownership (and so represents the condition that you will buy the stone in).
-numbers look fine, if the report is a DQD with the ASET simulation post that picture

 

[kybridetobe]

Hi yssie! Thanks for the input!

The AGS report # is 104048692010 as shown in the top right corner. The local jeweler emailed me a copy of the cert. They should have the diamond in house tomorrow. Is this report you mentioned something that should come with the diamond? If so, I will ask to see it.

This one is AGS rated I SI1 Triple 0 for $10,900 and the EGL USA diamond is a 1.6 carat H VS2 ideal cut for $9500. If EGL USA is off one grade on color and clarity, then the diamonds are quite similar and the EGL diamond came out with a 0.9 rating on the Holloway Cut Advisor with 3 Excellents and the last as Very Good, while the AGS diamond was a 2.0 with all Very Good ratings. Based on the HCA data, and the price the EGL diamond seems the better deal at this point. Am I missing anything? Of course I will want to make sure they are eye clean and look at them this week.

When I saw the GIA report today dated 2004, my thought was that the diamond had to be used as well. My other thought was that I don't see "Ideal" cut on the report at all - and that is what I was told about the diamond and it wasn't even graded for the cut. I think that it will be an issue to get it sent to GIA and a re-cert requested because we don't want to wait forever on it. I thought this was a bargain at $10,000 if it was an ideal cut. What are your thoughts on buying an 1.51 carat H VS1 based on the old cert for $10,000 as a used price? That seems high if used and we don't know the cut which concerns me a great deal as well.

 

[yssie]

Hi yssie! Thanks for the input!

The AGS report # is 104048692010 as shown in the top right corner. The local jeweler emailed me a copy of the cert. They should have the diamond in house tomorrow. Is this report you mentioned something that should come with the diamond? If so, I will ask to see it.

Definitely ask to see the report - even take your camera and take a colour photo of it. I can't get the AGS report check to work, you might try here: http://agslab.com/verify_diamond_granding_report.php You mention you have an emailed copy of the report, if you can post that we can tell you more.

This one is AGS rated I SI1 Triple 0 for $10,900 and the EGL USA diamond is a 1.6 carat H VS2 ideal cut for $9500. If EGL USA is off one grade on color and clarity, then the diamonds are quite similar and the EGL diamond came out with a 0.9 rating on the Holloway Cut Advisor with 3 Excellents and the last as Very Good, while the AGS diamond was a 2.0 with all Very Good ratings. Based on the HCA data, and the price the EGL diamond seems the better deal at this point. Am I missing anything? Of course I will want to make sure they are eye clean and look at them this week.

HCA is designed only as a blunt weeding tool - "likely worthy of further investigation" or "not likely worthy of further investigation". You can't use it to help you select one stone over another - a score of 0.9 is not better than a score of 2. You have two stones that are both "likely worthy of further investigation", so let's investigate them

When I saw the GIA report today dated 2004, my thought was that the diamond had to be used as well. My other thought was that I don't see "Ideal" cut on the report at all - and that is what I was told about the diamond and it wasn't even graded for the cut. I think that it will be an issue to get it sent to GIA and a re-cert requested because we don't want to wait forever on it. I thought this was a bargain at $10,000 if it was an ideal cut. What are your thoughts on buying an 1.51 carat H VS1 based on the old cert for $10,000 as a used price? That seems high if used and we don't know the cut which concerns me a great deal as well.

Would not go there without making sale contingent on a re-cert or an independent appraisal unless you adore the rock and would continue to adore it if it later turned out to be worth quite a bit less than what you paid (I'm not saying it's a fair price or not, I'm saying we don't have enough info to make a good guess) If you go this route make sure you have all agreements, policies, etc. in writing, signed and dated.



You are truly in the best position to make a choice you are happy with because you have the opportunity to look at and compare these stones in-person. Do lots of comparing - compare them to each other, to 'certed well-cut and poorly-cut stones, and at the end of the day - buy the stone, not the report! The report is very, very helpful when buying blind over the internet, and very, very helpful should you ever need to sell or trade-in the stone, but it affords you no more or less enjoyment of your stone when it's sitting on your finger..

 

[kybridetobe]

Hopefully you can see the AGS cert now:

 

[yssie]

ASET looks v nice.

You have a serious contender in this stone "by the numbers", but all comes down to which you like best in-person!

 

[jsb15]

I was intrigued by your GIA "ideal" stone H VS1 1.5 carats for $10,000 since I just bought a stone with similar specs and that price is too low. I then saw your GIA report being so old as to not provide much information for cut analysis so that stone is being priced as a non triple ex stone. Why would the vendor not want to have it re-certed to command $1000+ extra dollars if he thought it had excellent cut? If you bought that stone and had it re-certed and got lucky, you might get yourself a good deal.

While waiting for my AGS 000 stone, I was in the mall today and went to a high end B&M store just to look around at settings. I told the salesman that I was waiting on a stone but he of course wanted to show me how competitive he was. He pulled out an EGL-USA "super ideal" stone that was three color grades higher and one clarity grade lower than I was expecting to purchase (E SI1). I looked at the label on the tissue paper and told the salesman that there was a mistake on the label because there was no way this stone had the dimensions of 7.44 x 6.41 x 4.55 (roughly correct). I said the middle number probably was 7.41 since the stone looked nice and round to me. He agreed that it was a typo and pulled the original report from his files and that certificate had the exact same numbers. How they missed this if a newbie diamond shopper like me found it immediately is surprising. Hopefully they have better quality control on the grading but it just confirmed to me to stick with GIA/AGS since there is no other way to compare apples to apples without an independent appraisal.

 

[kybridetobe]

Hi jsb15. I think if my sweetheart knows that the GIA diamond is likely a used diamond and they didn't have the cut information but told us it was "ideal" cut, he'll likely be turned off by that store in general but I'll discuss it with him and see. Yes it's possible it is still a good deal and we would benefit from recertification or price negotiation - however, I don't know that I want to buy it based on the lack of cut information on the current cert. Decisions decisions!

That is a good point on the EGL cert issue! If they are off on a very important measurement like that, then how careless are they being on other things. That is my concern as well that EGL is not off by one grade on color and possibly clarity but perhaps several grades. As a newbie, I want to make sure that I'm getting what is considered to be a quality diamond even if I don't ever plan to sell the diamond or upgrade because it can be difficult for me to judge the color and clarity when I'm looking at a couple similar stones side by side.

 

[yssie]

A basic set of calipers can resolve a question like that quickly and simply. If there remains doubt they should send it back to the lab - EGL is a very successful enterprise, by volumetric and monetary considerations, they did not get where they are now by routinely mis-stating something as objective and easily measured as dimensions and/or carat weight.

Definitely agree re. apples/apples for colour comparisons.

 

[jsb15]

Yssie - I didn't need calipers to see it was a round stone (although the salesman did pull a set out). This was clearly a careless error and yet I am surprised that neither EGL picked it up nor did the diamond buyer for a very high end retail store. It just makes you wonder if they could hit the "D" key on a keyboard instead of the adjacent "F" key since that is an equally likely mistake as a "6" instead of a "7" and yet the latter error is more glaringly obvious.

 

[yssie]

Yssie - I didn't need calipers to see it was a round stone (although the salesman did pull a set out). This was clearly a careless error and yet I am surprised that neither EGL picked it up nor did the diamond buyer for a very high end retail store. It just makes you wonder if they could hit the "D" key on a keyboard instead of the adjacent "F" key since that is an equally likely mistake as a "6" instead of a "7" and yet the latter error is more glaringly obvious.

hehe now that might just be the routine for oh-so-many "labs"!

 

[kybridetobe]

Surprisingly, my sweetie is still ok with the GIA 1.51 H VS1 diamond with the old cert. Would you advise that we request to have it recerted at a price of $10k with no cut information and/or barter for a lower "used" price? The owner of the store is an appraiser and said he would appraise it but I think an independent appraisal is definitely wise since it seems to be a used stone. I assume that GIA or another lab would be the only ones who could grade the cut. Anyone know how much this costs or the time involved?

 

[kybridetobe]

I'm going to look at one more B&M store today and then go check out the 1.523 carat AGS Triple 0 I SI1 certified diamond today. This one is $10,900 but I like the fact that it is ideal and Triple 0. Not so keen on the one that isn't cut graded now, but I know it is all about which one strikes my fancy at the time!

 

[yssie]

Surprisingly, my sweetie is still ok with the GIA 1.51 H VS1 diamond with the old cert. Would you advise that we request to have it recerted at a price of $10k with no cut information and/or barter for a lower "used" price? The owner of the store is an appraiser and said he would appraise it but I think an independent appraisal is definitely wise since it seems to be a used stone. I assume that GIA or another lab would be the only ones who could grade the cut. Anyone know how much this costs or the time involved?

Yes, have the vendor send it back to GIA.
If I'm spending 10k I want to know *exactly* what I'm spending it on.
Alternatively you could have it professionally appraised, but the appraisers I would recommend would charge 150-250/hr so there is no pricing advantage.

Actually I would do both. $400 checking on a 10k stone is worth it to me.