Why are these diamonds so inexpensive?

[Thomperchik]

I’m new to this so please bare with me. My boyfriend and I are looking for the perfect diamond, but we are on a $2K budget. Originally we thought the only diamond we could afford with the specs that he would like to give me is a .50 princess cut. Of course, I rely on Pricescope and come to find out we can get a bigger diamond, with similar specs for a little under $2K.

I reviewed the specs and it seems that the two diamonds listed below are ideal cut, which is the most important factor for me. Are these diamonds too good to be true? Are they really good diamonds for the price that they are being sold for, or did I miss something?

Any advice/information will help! Thanks!

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-VVS2-Ideal-Cut-Princess-Diamond-1196668.asp?b=16&a=12&c=77&cid=131

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-VVS2-Ideal-Cut-Princess-Diamond-1113509.asp?b=16&a=12&c=77&cid=131

 

[stone-cold11]

No idea.

But choosing Princess, I would try and find a AGS0 cut graded stone, they are a safer bet. GIA do not grade princess and any cut grade on the stones are by the vendor.

Found 2 stones from WF that you might be interested in.

http://www.whiteflash.com/aca_princess/A-Cut-Above-Princess-cut-diamond-159851.htm#

http://www.whiteflash.com/aca_princess/A-Cut-Above-Princess-cut-diamond-114353.htm#

 

[hoofbeats95]

I haven''t shopped on the James Allen site. But if 2K is your range for the stone witout the setting, then I encourage you to look at Whiteflash. They also offer a pricescope discount if you wire the money. You can contact Lesley and talk to her. I just got an ACA princess and have never seen a princess like it before! It''s AMAZING! Nothing in the stores compare to that sparkle. Mine is a .728 F VS1 and was just $500 over your budget. I encourage you to consider looking at a lower clarity. WF will tell you if it''s eyeclean. And you can probably save money by not going with a VVS. Unless you need a "mind clean" stone. I don''t know what color/clarity you are looking for or what is most important to you. But the cut of the ACA princess is AMAZING!

 

[neatfreak]

I also would prefer Whiteflash for a princess, but you are right in that you can get a LOT more for your money than you were expecting if you shop online with a great vendor.

 

[Thomperchik]

Thank you so much! I''ll encourage the SO to look at WF!!

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

Date: 12/3/2008 8:37:45 AM
Author:Thomperchik

I’m new to this so please bare with me. My boyfriend and I are looking for the perfect diamond, but we are on a $2K budget. Originally we thought the only diamond we could afford with the specs that he would like to give me is a .50 princess cut. Of course, I rely on Pricescope and come to find out we can get a bigger diamond, with similar specs for a little under $2K.

I reviewed the specs and it seems that the two diamonds listed below are ideal cut, which is the most important factor for me. Are these diamonds too good to be true? Are they really good diamonds for the price that they are being sold for, or did I miss something?

Any advice/information will help! Thanks!

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-VVS2-Ideal-Cut-Princess-Diamond-1196668.asp?b=16&a=12&c=77&cid=131

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-VVS2-Ideal-Cut-Princess-Diamond-1113509.asp?b=16&a=12&c=77&cid=131

Some vendors have their very own definition of ''ideal''.

 

[strmrdr]

looking at the pics the first JA stone is very well cut.

 

[strmrdr]

The second not as well but still near the top for a princess.

 

[strmrdr]

Contrary to popular perception some very nice princess cuts are being sent to GIA for grading.
Finding them is a little harder but they are out there.

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

I agree with Karl that the first stone could well be a VG-cut in AGS-grading.

 

[Thomperchik]

How can I tell if the diamond truly is an ideal cut for princess aside from AGS? Should facets matter or does that only apply for other shapes? thanks!

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

Trust me. It is not an ideal according to AGS-criteria. Not by far.

 

[pyramid]

Thomperchik

Paul of course can't tell you, but I CAN as I am a consumer. If you are looking for an Ideal Cut Princess, Paul Antwerp of Infinity Diamonds above is where to shop. You can also purchase his diamonds through various venders including Wink who is a vendor who writes on this forum here and can be contacted at www.winkjones.com (Wink is an oldtimer who has been a vendor on here for years and has his own jewellery store Winfields in Boise, Idaho). As I am in the UK I don't know how far away that may be but there are other vendors I believe in USA who sell Paul's diamonds. The other thing about buying from Paul is he was the first cutter to obtain AGS0 ideal for Princess Cut Diamonds. See the link above for Infinity Diamonds beneath Paul's name to see a list of diamonds available.

 

[honey22]

I would suggest you drop you clarity to at least the VS range, and even colour to a G maybe - VVS clarity is overkill, especially with a tight budget. You can get more bang for your buck - or should I say, more bling for your buck!

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 12/3/2008 7:39:40 PM
Author: honey22
I would suggest you drop you clarity to at least the VS range, and even colour to a G maybe - VVS clarity is overkill, especially with a tight budget. You can get more bang for your buck - or should I say, more bling for your buck!

Agreed. And you can easily drop to a G or even an H in an ideal cut princess.

 

[Miss Fortune]

Date: 12/3/2008 10:41:29 AM
Author: strmrdr
looking at the pics the first JA stone is very well cut.

wow! this one is pretty!

 

[Fly Girl]

Wink currently has a 0.74 F I1 Crafted by Infinity princess =274&src=loupe:2o8h065d]Link for $2,042.

I''ve seen Crafted by Infinity diamonds, (and even got to meet Paul Slegers and listen to his story about how he achieved the Princess AGS 0 rating!) and his Princesses are the best of the best. I''d definitely call Wink about this stone, or see what else he might be able to find for you in your price range. You get a perfectly cut diamond like this, and it will sparkle such that you will never notice any inclusions.

 

[stone-cold11]

Date: 12/3/2008 7:54:42 PM
Author: Fly Girl
Wink currently has a 0.74 F I1 Crafted by Infinity princess =274&src=loupe:2o8h065d]Link for $2,042.


I've seen Crafted by Infinity diamonds, (and even got to meet Paul Slegers and listen to his story about how he achieved the Princess AGS 0 rating!) and his Princesses are the best of the best. I'd definitely call Wink about this stone, or see what else he might be able to find for you in your price range. You get a perfectly cut diamond like this, and it will sparkle such that you will never notice any inclusions.

Wink has this posted in his gallery. It also has a link of a video of the diamond under some magnification, here.

 

[Thomperchik]

Than you everyone! I really didn''t know as much as I thought I did!

I appreciate all the help!

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

Date: 12/3/2008 7:29:50 PM
Author: Pyramid
Thomperchik

Paul of course can''t tell you, but I CAN as I am a consumer. If you are looking for an Ideal Cut Princess, Paul Antwerp of Infinity Diamonds above is where to shop. You can also purchase his diamonds through various venders including Wink who is a vendor who writes on this forum here and can be contacted at www.winkjones.com (Wink is an oldtimer who has been a vendor on here for years and has his own jewellery store Winfields in Boise, Idaho). As I am in the UK I don''t know how far away that may be but there are other vendors I believe in USA who sell Paul''s diamonds. The other thing about buying from Paul is he was the first cutter to obtain AGS0 ideal for Princess Cut Diamonds. See the link above for Infinity Diamonds beneath Paul''s name to see a list of diamonds available.

Thank you, Piramid, for the extremely nice words and the vote of confidence.

In this case, looking at a 0.53 princess-cut, it is not even the matter of choosing an Infinity over another princess-cut, as we do not produce this size of princess-cuts. It is my personal experience that it is extremely difficult to produce extremely good light performance in a smaller-size princess-cut.

In any case, in these smaller sizes, one needs to minimize the number of facets, and the 4 chevron-lines on this particular stone are way too many. Blown up to the size of the pic, like Karl did, the stone looks fine, and seems to have a very decent symmetry. Reduced to real size, the extra facets produce a shattered-glass-look. It is a challenge to avoid that, even when using only 2 chevron-lines.

Live long,

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 12/3/2008 8:16:16 PM
Author: Stone-cold11

Date: 12/3/2008 7:54:42 PM
Author: Fly Girl
Wink currently has a 0.74 F I1 Crafted by Infinity princess =274&src=loupe:2o8h065d]Link for $2,042.


I've seen Crafted by Infinity diamonds, (and even got to meet Paul Slegers and listen to his story about how he achieved the Princess AGS 0 rating!) and his Princesses are the best of the best. I'd definitely call Wink about this stone, or see what else he might be able to find for you in your price range. You get a perfectly cut diamond like this, and it will sparkle such that you will never notice any inclusions.

Wink has this posted in his gallery. It also has a link of a video of the diamond under some magnification, here.

I would like to thank Pyramid, Stone Cold and Fly Girl for their very kind words and recommendations. These kinds of comments are the very lifeblood of any Pricescope vendor's reputation and business here and it always makes me appreciate the people here so much when they are made. (For any vendor, it is seeing that the work the vendors do to provide useful and high quality information is appreciated that makes us all want to do more!)

I was going to post the information that AGS is the only major lab to have created a cut grading system with the use of the term Ideal in it and also the only one that I am aware of so far to set standards for the princess cut. GIA does have a cut grade system for rounds, but not yet for the princess cut, so I would be in total disagreement with James Allen's use of that terminology on his site with GIA graded diamonds.

I was going to, really, but Paul said it so much better that I find it not meaningful for me to post it so I will leave his answers to represent that part of this discussion...

Wink

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 12/4/2008 8:59:06 AM
Author: Thomperchik
Than you everyone! I really didn''t know as much as I thought I did!

I appreciate all the help!

Trust me, it is not easy!

Even those of us in the business rarely know as much as we think we do, and we work at it constantly. The nature of what we know about light performance and cutting is in a constant stage of flux as real scientists have joined the fray and forced us to learn entirely new information than we had to know only five or six years ago. I truly think that for consumers the best time ever to be buying a diamond for beauty is now.

The more we learn about light performance and how it pleases the eye, the more unique and unusual shapes we will be able to provide that will be magnificent for those who want the unique, and the better and more pleasing the traditional shapes will be for those who love those shapes.

The princess of today is MUCH more beautiful than the princess of only a few years ago. Lucky for YOU!!!

Wink

 

[swingirl]

Just threw these together so you could compare the .51 JA cut (left) and the .74 Infinity cut (right).

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 12/4/2008 9:53:13 AM
Author: Paul-Antwerp
In any case, in these smaller sizes, one needs to minimize the number of facets, and the 4 chevron-lines on this particular stone are way too many. Blown up to the size of the pic, like Karl did, the stone looks fine, and seems to have a very decent symmetry. Reduced to real size, the extra facets produce a shattered-glass-look. It is a challenge to avoid that, even when using only 2 chevron-lines.

Im not about to try and predict a AGS grade for a princess from a picture but a few points....
Yes the shattered glass look is not the very best in diffused lighting but some people do love the look.
I don''t like that look at all(to be honest I don''t like princess cuts) but I get yelled at for projecting my preferences in that area.
Would you explain the difference in appearance a lot of small facets brings over one with larger facets rather than just saying they are bad?

 

[pyramid]

To me I was say that the facets look less well defined or even the virtual facets, because they mirror into each other and create a jumble of light which is too fuzzy/blurred or maybe show glare which covers up the line edges of the internal x shape. Maybe a bit like the exra facet rounds marketed by some stores.

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

Date: 12/4/2008 1:41:56 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 12/4/2008 9:53:13 AM
Author: Paul-Antwerp
In any case, in these smaller sizes, one needs to minimize the number of facets, and the 4 chevron-lines on this particular stone are way too many. Blown up to the size of the pic, like Karl did, the stone looks fine, and seems to have a very decent symmetry. Reduced to real size, the extra facets produce a shattered-glass-look. It is a challenge to avoid that, even when using only 2 chevron-lines.

Im not about to try and predict a AGS grade for a princess from a picture but a few points....
Yes the shattered glass look is not the very best in diffused lighting but some people do love the look.
I don''t like that look at all(to be honest I don''t like princess cuts) but I get yelled at for projecting my preferences in that area.
Would you explain the difference in appearance a lot of small facets brings over one with larger facets rather than just saying they are bad?

Hey Karl,

I may have misunderstood the highlighted above, but I do not think that anyone yelled at you in this thread.

You just blew up one pic, and said that the stone apparently was well cut. I agree with that, this stone seems well cut in the way that a house can be well-built, but with a bad architect.

As for the second pic, where you say that the stone is less good, but still a top-princess, I totally disagree. The stone had a bad architect and it was built badly, and the result is a lot of blurry facets.

Now, I do not understand why you do not like princess-cuts. I understand that step-cuts are your favorites, but you do not dislike round brilliants, do you? Now, if one can produce princess-cuts with similar light performance as the best possible round, why would you not like it? Because you get less total surface area for the same weight? But what if this is compensated by the optical trick in which the very bright longer point-to-point diameter of the princess makes you think the princess is bigger than a round? I assure you that you cannot only like princess-cuts, you can love them.

As for the benefits of less facets, this is highly size-dependent. That is why you see extra-facet-brands often promoted with huge pictures or even huge CZ- or glass-models. More facets result in more, but smaller virtual facets. The result is a higher difficulty to maintain symmetry, which results in even more smaller virtual facets or in outright fuzziness. Also, smaller virtual facets produce less strong scintillation. And the fire actually coming out of such a facet stands a greater chance of being not observable as fire for human eyes.

And all this is relative to the actual size of a stone. It might be interesting to try out a 0.50Ct-princess with just one line of chevrons.

Live long,

 

[strmrdr]

Hey Paul,
Not in this thread I haven't got yelled at for not explaining stuff, others I have.
The second pic is out of focus its not the stone that is that blurry.
But that is another topic.

I was looking for you to explain the specific effect of small facets in princess cuts.
I can explain them in general but you would be better to do so in reference to princess cuts and small ones in particular.
The reference to me not not liking them was to explain why I wasn't going to explain it because my personal preference may come in.
So in a round about way my post makes sense but I see why you didn't get it.

 

[strmrdr]

Paul, this is OT, but the reason I don't like them is they look to busy to me, A RB is about as busy a cut as I can tolerate in the under 2ct range.
In 2-3ct+ range some of the extra facet rounds are ok.
That is my personal preference.

While I haven't seen your princess cuts I have seen a few AGS0 princess cuts and while the light return is better they are still to busy for me.

 

[diagem]

Date: 12/4/2008 5:08:17 PM
Author: Paul-Antwerp

Date: 12/4/2008 1:41:56 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 12/4/2008 9:53:13 AM
Author: Paul-Antwerp
In any case, in these smaller sizes, one needs to minimize the number of facets, and the 4 chevron-lines on this particular stone are way too many. Blown up to the size of the pic, like Karl did, the stone looks fine, and seems to have a very decent symmetry. Reduced to real size, the extra facets produce a shattered-glass-look. It is a challenge to avoid that, even when using only 2 chevron-lines.

Im not about to try and predict a AGS grade for a princess from a picture but a few points....
Yes the shattered glass look is not the very best in diffused lighting but some people do love the look.
I don''t like that look at all(to be honest I don''t like princess cuts) but I get yelled at for projecting my preferences in that area.
Would you explain the difference in appearance a lot of small facets brings over one with larger facets rather than just saying they are bad?

Hey Karl,

I may have misunderstood the highlighted above, but I do not think that anyone yelled at you in this thread.

You just blew up one pic, and said that the stone apparently was well cut. I agree with that, this stone seems well cut in the way that a house can be well-built, but with a bad architect.

As for the second pic, where you say that the stone is less good, but still a top-princess, I totally disagree. The stone had a bad architect and it was built badly, and the result is a lot of blurry facets.

Now, I do not understand why you do not like princess-cuts. I understand that step-cuts are your favorites, but you do not dislike round brilliants, do you? Now, if one can produce princess-cuts with similar light performance as the best possible round, why would you not like it? Because you get less total surface area for the same weight? But what if this is compensated by the optical trick in which the very bright longer point-to-point diameter of the princess makes you think the princess is bigger than a round? I assure you that you cannot only like princess-cuts, you can love them.

As for the benefits of less facets, this is highly size-dependent. That is why you see extra-facet-brands often promoted with huge pictures or even huge CZ- or glass-models. More facets result in more, but smaller virtual facets. The result is a higher difficulty to maintain symmetry, which results in even more smaller virtual facets or in outright fuzziness. Also, smaller virtual facets produce less strong scintillation. And the fire actually coming out of such a facet stands a greater chance of being not observable as fire for human eyes.

And all this is relative to the actual size of a stone. It might be interesting to try out a 0.50Ct-princess with just one line of chevrons.

Live long,

Wow..., run that by me one more time??

 

[glitterata]

I second the recommendation of that .74 ct F I1 Infinity princess. I have one of Paul''s Infinity rounds from Wink, and it''s gorgeous. It''s also an I1, but the sparkle completely hides the inclusions. That stone will be a beautiful princess, and for the money, it''s much bigger than anything else half as pretty.

Plus, you get the pleasure of working with Wink, who''s one of the all-time nicest guys around.