Why do you prefer an IF or VVS diamond?

[oldminer]

I think there are certain profiles that fit buyers of differenly shaped diamonds, just as there are profiles which fit buyers of fine color, fine cut, or high clarity stones. The most mysterious of these profile, personality types, is the dedicated buyer of high clarity diamonds. I know there is a cultural bias in many Asian buyers toward perfection, but I have increasingly found non-Asian buyers who also want high clarity for their own unique reasons.

Maybe those folks who really have a need for best clarity stones might like to help us all understand a little more about why this is their personal choice. I''d sure love to know more on this subject, too.

 

[belle]

it is (was!) equated to quality.
before ps, like mostly everyone else on the planet, all i knew of diamonds was that they had to be high color/clarity to be good. of course, now i know that it is the CUT that makes a diamond clear and beautiful and sparkly and not the color/clarity.

 

[Madam Bijoux]

My clarity standards depend on the shape of the stone. Inclusions are easier to see in step-cuts - so - when I got my emerald cut and my Royal Asscher, I wanted the best clarity I could get. (My emerald cut is D/VS2 and my Royal Asscher is D/VVS2.) Clarity isn't a big issue for me with round brilliants or other fancy cuts.

 

[ladyciel]

Slightly off topic, but Madam B got me thinking. Since inclusions are easier to see in step-cuts, is this factored in during the grading process for clarity? If you had two stones, one round brilliant and another emerald, with comparably sized and placed inclusions, would the clarity grades be different based on eye-cleanliness?

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 7/24/2007 9:22:10 AM
Author:oldminer
I think there are certain profiles that fit buyers of differenly shaped diamonds, just as there are profiles which fit buyers of fine color, fine cut, or high clarity stones. The most mysterious of these profile, personality types, is the dedicated buyer of high clarity diamonds. I know there is a cultural bias in many Asian buyers toward perfection, but I have increasingly found non-Asian buyers who also want high clarity for their own unique reasons.

Maybe those folks who really have a need for best clarity stones might like to help us all understand a little more about why this is their personal choice. I''d sure love to know more on this subject, too.

By fine I''m assuming you mean a D - and I''m not sure I agree with that being more fine but rather just "higher". JMO.

As for the other question, I have a friend who has an IF stone and she loves being able to say it is "flawless" (I doubt she understands IF vs F) and when she was proposed to her husband told her it was flawless just like her blah blah blah LOL She has a D Flawless 1 carat and the cut is horrible but to her the "D Flawless" is all she needs. I cannot tell you how many times I''ve heard her say something about it being flawless (she rarely brings up color). So my guess in this case the reason for getting it would be to be able to SAY it was flawless both to her in his engagement speech and for her forevermore.

 

[Hest88]

Diamonds are luxury items, thus their value lies mainly in their emotional worth. Although I don''t think, even if I could afford it, I would choose an IF diamond, I can certainly understand the appeal of not only saying you have a gorgeous stone, but the added thrill of being able to say it''s flawless. It may not be something visible, but, like hand-stitching in a fine suit, just *knowing* you have something rather singular has its definite appeal.

 

[decodelighted]

Well ... I hope not to be "profiled"

but my Asscher is VVS1 ... and I do get a certain thrill from it''s secret "near-perfection" (in terms of clarity). I would have been careful with clarity in such an open cut ... but def would have considered VS2, or prongable SIs ... but it was like just a happy accident that the stone I loved & was affordable just happened to have that *bonus*.

For me it''s like my doggie ... she has a secret too. Her great-great-grandfather won Best in Show at Westminster. I didn''t choose her *because* of this. Again: happy accident. And, because she''s fixed ... it''s not like I''m crankin'' out "designer" pups over here! I have to say it''s very fun though when people remind me of the dog of her breed that won at Westminster. I just nod & say "Yup! I remember that!" == I *never*, *never* tell them she''s related. It''s a SECRET thrill. Not a SHOWY one.

 

[belle]

deco, i was just going to say that i love your new avatar and then i read about her little secret

how special!
i was missing seeing her cute ears but i like this pic because i can see her precious face!

adorable!

 

[junior35]

Date: 7/24/2007 9:22:10 AM
Author:oldminer
I think there are certain profiles that fit buyers of differenly shaped diamonds, just as there are profiles which fit buyers of fine color, fine cut, or high clarity stones. The most mysterious of these profile, personality types, is the dedicated buyer of high clarity diamonds. I know there is a cultural bias in many Asian buyers toward perfection, but I have increasingly found non-Asian buyers who also want high clarity for their own unique reasons.

Maybe those folks who really have a need for best clarity stones might like to help us all understand a little more about why this is their personal choice. I''d sure love to know more on this subject, too.

Dave, like in many businesses today the diamond market is getting polarized.I will explain. As the stones get larger (for the sake of argument 2 ct and up)the demand for better purities and colors increases and the cultural divide becomes blurred. Even though it''s an elite market,there is good demand for really exceptional stones e.g. 3 ct and up D/E IF/VVS1. In that category there are sometimes huge premiums paid by buyers regardless of culture.

 

[Regular Guy]

I just wanted to add my support to this being a potentially helpful, and/or interesting question

I might like to think that Pricescope, overall, is about providing sand paper to the phenomenology of experience.

Your discussion earlier, Dave, here, where you say: "You need to look at diamonds rather than think you can just order one blindly," seems to give away your bias, and I''m guessing motivated this thread altogether.

It''s reasonable to mix in symbolism to the decision to buy a diamond...but indeed, why ever buy VVS1 or 2? Can the same be said for the color E?

 

[oldminer]

Well, I don''t want anyone to think of today''s poor conotation of profiling, like in racial or ethnic profiling. This is definitely not my intent. I admit to bringing my own opinions to bear quite often during discussions in other threads, but didn''t want to influence the conversation here by voicing my personal opinions or personl taste on the subject. What I might like, would absolutely not make other folks happy in some cases. Other people seeking guidance might choose exactly what I would personally suggest, but I make every effort to discover what makes the consumer tick and what would please them the best before making any suggestions. I believe in informed choice, not in guidance totally provided by "experts" when making the buying decision.

By getting responses to this thread, we all learn more about "why" people might prefer better clarity diamonds. I have seen the financial and cultural divide widen in the past decades with many folks buying big rocks of fine quality in our steamy market. Regular consumers are swept around in the torrent by ever higher prices for fuel and necessities. Compromises are much the order of the day for a lot of consumers. There is a divide which is not getting smaller.

All I was thinking of when I opened this topic is to allow people to respond on a subje4ct that is fresh and possibly enlightening. Pricescope is indeed putting out very fine level of diamond knowledge for people to examine. Its all beneficial and will help sellers to meet the needs of consumers better. It also allows consumers to know better wheat they really want BEFORE they buy. Mistake prevention is a high priority with me.

 

[jstarfireb]

Date: 7/24/2007 12:26:42 PM
Author: decodelighted
Well ... I hope not to be ''profiled''

but my Asscher is VVS1 ... and I do get a certain thrill from it''s secret ''near-perfection'' (in terms of clarity). I would have been careful with clarity in such an open cut ... but def would have considered VS2, or prongable SIs ... but it was like just a happy accident that the stone I loved & was affordable just happened to have that *bonus*.

I agree with deco. My princess is a VVS2. Anything VS2 or above would have been my preference, although I would have gone to SI1 if necessary. It certainly didn''t need to be a VVS2 in order for me to be satisfied, but given that there was a VVS2 and a VS2 in my price range of the same size, cut quality (both ACAs), and color, I figured why not go for the higher clarity? I do get a bit of a thrill in knowing that not only is it eye-clean, but the inclusions are pretty difficult to see with a loupe.

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 7/24/2007 3:52:51 PM
Author: oldminer

By getting responses to this thread, we all learn more about 'why' people might prefer better clarity diamonds.

I'd consider adding the word 'some' before people, even if the sum of the some is greater than the few who aren't the some (Ira, did I say that right?).

We do have customers who express a preference for extremely high clarity, whether for value, the 'mind-clean' aspect or as part of a cultural belief. Others (the majority in our market) seek a diamond that is clean to the naked eye but like to stay in the VS-SI range for the price advantage. We also have customers who don't mind side-visible, prongable or tiny eye-visible inclusions if they can get more size and top cut - and once in a while a client voices a preference for an inclusion or two, considering them 'birthmarks' in the stone which make it special and identifiable.

I'd estimate 80% of our clients over the years are seeking clean VS-SI stones, but markets vary and the inventory of retailers varies accordingly.

 

[strmrdr]

One person I know who only buys D/IF for his wife does so because it is easy.
Why bother learning the difference with something you don''t care much about when you can just buy the "best".
Now that the cut grades are out his criteria is D/IF/EX/EX/EX and only GIA will do.
What does she care most about? That it came from him.

 

[diagem]

IMO... Human nature aims towards the Rare.

 

[msterling21]

Well, I purchased a D VVS1 1.18 EX/EX RB in June. Since then, I've questioned my decision numerous times and find myself occassionally searching for "what I could've gotten for the same $$$", like a nice 1.3-1.5 well cut RB. On the otherhand, I don't regret it too much. I know I have a nice stone and that it's as perfect as I can afford over 1ct. It was a personal choice even after reading some negative comments about it being a waste of money. Even jewelers have commented how overpriced it was. This happend when I went looking for a setting to mount it on. They kept asking me, why? Why not just get an F VS1? You can't even tell... blah blah. Okay, I know. To me, it's too common, most retailers carry them. An ACA or eye-clean version doesn't make it any better (spec-wise).

I think it's part of my personality. I like things when I buy them to be new and perfect. For instance, I collected high-end sports cards for about a year. I wanted to own nothing but MINT. I couldn't deal with having a small ding on the corners or off-centered. Of course I paid a premium for these too (about 30-50% more). To me, an SI diamond is like a near-mint card. The rarity part of it has something to do with it as well. It's certainly nice to know that I have something considered "rare". When I had my diamond appraised by an independent appraiser (found on PS). I told her I might have overkilled my purchase. She said to me "you should not regret paying for quality".

Well, it's good for sellers and bad for buyers like me. We overpay for these things. What can I say? I'm not even close to "rich" or considered a high-end consumer. This diamond that I purchased for my future fiancee will have great sentimental value. I know for a fact she will not look to upgrade in the future. She will keep it for the rest of our lives (or marriage . At least that's what she's told me. You know women, once they see something nicer - it's out with the old and in with the new.
That being said, if I had a choice now. I may and would have dropped the requirements down a notch for something slightly bigger. Probably a E/VVS2 but no less. By the way, I'm asian!

I'd like to add one last thing. On future purchases, let's say we were to ever buy a second diamond ring, pendant, earrings - you know, something less sentimental, I would definitely go for an ACA F VS or SI. Just not for this one.

 

[stebbo]

Date: 7/24/2007 5:08:31 PM
Author: JohnQuixote

...even if the sum of the some is greater than the few who aren''t the some (Ira, did I say that right?).

Now that hit my funny bone...

The FL/IF = flawless = perfection bit never sits well with me.

Sara''s friend running around saying her diamond is flawless, give her a microscope and she will cry. I could equally run around with my wife''s VS1 and say it''s flawless, afterall, I can''t see any flaws.

FL/IF - they''re just levels defined by a company that chose to grade under 10x magnification. Give them 20x and most FL/IF''s would hold up the white hanky. They''re not perfection, just closer than VVS. Just like Sara was saying about D color.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

I have a very down to earth ''Bloke'' client who buys D IF because it suits his romantic beliefs.
When we first met he was devastated to discover his other D IF''s were not well cut. We since repolished some bigger stones.

And that leads me to the large number of badly cut high color clarity ice. When D IF is the main selling point, and the prmium is about +40% over D VVS1, it stands to reason cutters will compromise cut to work around inclusions and still achieve magic weights.

There are few well cut 1ct D IF''s compared to say 1ct F-G VS2-SI1''s where there is much better demand for better cut these days.

Interestingly I suspect there is a growing number of D IF''s for reasons of the rich getting richer and more of them, and the technology - OctoNus MBox and Helium / Oxygen make achieving high clarity much more achieveable then before. And as a growing number of cutters find they can make money using the technology and get really fast pay backs it will become interesting to see what happens to supply and demand?

 

[Lord Summerisle]

I post quite a bit on another forum... and the question of diamonds often comes up (its a motoring forum, and quite male dominated... and often they''re very lost when it comes to diamonds... bit like most of us when we stubble accross pricescope)

and the range of advice you get from other posters, who very often are as clueless as the origonal poster...

in most cases the advice they give boils down to get the most colourless/flawless diamond you can...because that means its ''better''

one person says
"See a Colour = D; Clarity = Flawless diamond in the flesh and then decide. Okay it might be small, but you opted for quality rather than size. There is something special about buying a girl the most perfect diamond there is. The standard against which all her friends will (secretly) judge theirs.

"

indeed one thread had a couple of folks saying ''get D or better'' ''erm you cant get better than D...?'' ''yes you can theres D+, my friend is a jeweller, he says you can''