Why doesn't DEI include atheists?

[kenny]

Reportedly a third of America is atheist, or have no affiliation or participation in any religion, or however they word it.

But of course, in America good luck with counting us; it's like a 1955 poll in the bible belt asking all the homosexuals to raise their hands.
Shame has driven us into the closets, as gays and as atheists, shame that originated in religions and became the inherent social fabric of America.

DEI is the acronym for Diversity, Equality, and Inclusion.
Yet in 2023 America, atheists (a huge demographic) are not included in the inclusion acronym that names many smaller groups.
DEI still does not include atheists in all the non-discrimination policies of a zillion organizations.

I know many groups (who cannot be named) preach that atheists eat babies, etc.
Kinda like all homosexuals are child molesters - this preached from the altars of the PS-unnamable org.

 

[LilAlex]

DEI still does not include atheists in all the non-discrimination policies of a zillion organizations.

OK, I'll bite. Where I sit, no one hides their lack of faith. I assume that freedom from discrimination based on religion includes the absence of religion -- so I think atheists are covered, legally.

Also, there are lots of population subsets that are not targeted minorities -- lefties, union members, freemasons, Elks, butchers, bald people, tall people, etc., etc.

 

[missy]

Yup we are a MESS
Totally agree we are being manipulated
One of the main principles this country was founded on was a separation between church and state
What a farce
People don't think for themselves and allow themselves to be controlled by those who have less than their best interests at heart
We are doomed unless things start changing

The Supreme Court Benches the Separation of Church and State | ACLU

The court has adopted an approach that would see the lines between church and state hopelessly blurred, if not eliminated altogether.

www.aclu.org

Snip..
" in recent years, the court has adopted an approach that would see the lines between church and state hopelessly blurred, if not eliminated altogether."

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

Why do you need a group Kenny? As LilAlex said atheists are protected by law. I think your need to proclaim your atheism seems to be to put down other religions, particularly Christians and accuse them of being the root of all evil that you see in the world. We need some shame and guilt in this world.

Since I think you are aware that I am also an atheist, I will tell you I had one experience of "coming out" that taught me not to "come out". I only do so on Pricescope, where the tenticles of disapproval can't get me. It was a bad experience where people shunned me for being ungodly (about 20yrs ago). I find no need to announce how and what I believe, as it is my business.

As you have indicated atheism is growing , but don't mistake non- religious affiliation with atheism. They just don't go to church or places of worship but will tell you they believe.

Acceptance for people who are different gives people pause. Its a slow process. Believing has taken 2000 years, and seems to be receding. Parts of the society fight back even harder, to the point of irrationality. Crush changes seems the actions of today. I don't want to be crushed, so when I think it is wise to be silent I will be.

Ron Reagon r. has a organization for atheists. Look that up Kenny if you need to belong.

Annette

 

[Demon]

I have never had a problem with anyone due to my lack of belief, at least to my face. Dog knows what they might have said behind my back, but who cares?

It is nice to know that there are more of us, and I suspect with the younger generations, it may even be possible to run for office as an atheist, something that doesn't seem possible now.

 

[Matata]

t may even be possible to run for office as an atheist, something that doesn't seem possible now.

When we've had a devil in office, how much worse can an atheist be

 

[stracci2000]

I'm an agnostic.
I don't know, and I firmly believe that you don't know either.
But I kinda lean atheist.
Please don't tell my mom, she would flip her wig.

 

[jordyonbass]

I'm an agnostic.
I don't know, and I firmly believe that you don't know either.
But I kinda lean atheist.

Agnosticism/gnosticism more determines strength of a belief rather than what the actual belief is, therefore you can have both atheists and theists that fall under the Agnostic category.

I am an Agnostic atheist; I don't claim to have any knowledge of the topic and I also do not have an active belief.

 

[Matata]

I am indeterminately unlabeled,
mysterious,
cloaked in the mists of time immemorial,
and,
TBA. (frantically searching through the thesaurus for an artful way to end this )

 

[kenny]

I'm an agnostic.
I don't know, and I firmly believe that you don't know either.
But I kinda lean atheist.
Please don't tell my mom, she would flip her wig.

My 2¢.

I want to believe as many true things as possible, and as few false things as possible.
But, how does one determine what is true?
Answer: Evidence.

But theists say, you must have faith.
Really? Why can't I stick to reason?
Faith is the word people use for believing something when there is insufficient evidence to justify belief.
If there was evidence, they wouldn't need faith.

If faith was a good reason to believe someone could say, "I have faith that lightning means god is mad. etc.
Reason is a pathway to truth; faith is not.
You could have faith there is a purple elephant in your back yard.
The default position for someone hearing your claim is to not believe it until it is proven.
Same thing with god(s), another very extraordinary claim.

That's why the burden of proof if on the one making an extraordinary claim, the theist.
Many theists use this trick: "Well then, Mr. atheist, prove there is no god."
Of course the absence of a god is also as impossible to prove as the existence of god.

Then who has the burden of proof, the theist or the a-theist?

Not believing the claim that god exists does not mean one also believes there IS no god.
There are some atheist who claim there is no god, but all you need to be an atheist is to not accept the claim that god exists.

I'm not one of the atheists who believes there is no god..
When/if the burden of proof has been met I will believe there is a god.

Of course then I'd have to determine which god is real since we've invented so many throughout time and around the world.
And just because the existence of god gets proven doesn't mean the Bible or koran et. al are the word of god.
A bottomless can of worms.

Here's a detail often overlooked ...
When one does not accept the theist's god claim, people wrongly assume that the disbeliever also believes there is no god. Not so.
For me atheist means not accepting the claim that god exists; but I won't state that no god exists because I just don't know.
Two very different things but the difference is lost on many,

The gumboil analogy helps some understand why not believing in god is not the same as believing there is no god ...

theatheistexperience gumball analogy

 

[kenny]

I'm an agnostic.
I don't know, and I firmly believe that you don't know either.
But I kinda lean atheist.
Please don't tell my mom, she would flip her wig.

This feels so much like being gay and in the closet because we've been brainwashed that being gay is so shameful.

Let's be visible.
It is the honest thing to do.
As with the increasing acceptance of gays, the world will be a better place when everyone comes out of the closet on this atheism too.

Shame is bullsht, unless you've done something to be ashamed of.
You've done nothing to be ashamed of.

 

[stracci2000]

This feels so much like being gay and in the closet because we've been brainwashed that being gay is so shameful.

Let's be visible.
It is the honest thing to do.
As with the increasing acceptance of gays, the world will be a better place when everyone comes out of the closet on this atheism too.

Shame is bullsht, unless you've done something to be ashamed of.
You've done nothing to be ashamed of.

My mother watches religious TV all day long.
If I told her how I really feel, she would be very upset. So I avoid all religious discussions with her. I am very good at changing the subject.

So Kenny, you are exactly right. I guess I am in the closet. Its sad that I can't be honest with her. She would never understand. She's been brainwashed by the televangelists.

 

[YadaYadaYada]

@stracci2000, I hope she doesn’t send them any money! They can be very persuasive. Hey, I may be religious but I always found the basket in church obnoxious, especially because they send it around twice!

 

[stracci2000]

@stracci2000, I hope she doesn’t send them any money! They can be very persuasive. Hey, I may be religious but I always found the basket in church obnoxious, especially because they send it around twice!

She has! Years ago, she sent money to Jim and Tammy Bakker!
And I think she might have sent money to Jimmy Swaggert, but I'm afraid to ask.

 

[jordyonbass]

This feels so much like being gay and in the closet because we've been brainwashed that being gay is so shameful.

Let's be visible.
It is the honest thing to do.
As with the increasing acceptance of gays, the world will be a better place when everyone comes out of the closet on this atheism too.

Shame is bullsht, unless you've done something to be ashamed of.
You've done nothing to be ashamed of.

I think the reason that it doesn't really happen like that is because Atheism really only addresses a lack of a belief in any theistic deity; from there, the spectrum of people is almost endless and there is nothing else that really ties us together as a group - so we all remain as individuals.


Theism is different in that regard since there is very much a community that their church/chapel/whatever religious congregation you wish to name is the centre of, and a lot of those people tend to share similar interests as people find more in common for things they enjoy/believe in than things they don't within those communities.

Think of it like a community of people who reject Santa Claus, other than not believing in Santa Claus there probably isn't a whole lot that they all have in common and a non-belief is hardly something that ties people together.

 

[Demon]

My 2¢.

I want to believe as many true things as possible, and as few false things as possible.
But, how does one determine what is true?
Answer: Evidence.

But theists say, you must have faith.
Really? Why can't I stick to reason?
Faith is the word people use for believing something when there is insufficient evidence to justify belief.
If there was evidence, they wouldn't need faith.

If faith was a good reason to believe someone could say, "I have faith that lightning means god is mad. etc.
Reason is a pathway to truth; faith is not.
You could have faith there is a purple elephant in your back yard.
The default position for someone hearing your claim is to not believe it until it is proven.
Same thing with god(s), another very extraordinary claim.

That's why the burden of proof if on the one making an extraordinary claim, the theist.
Many theists use this trick: "Well then, Mr. atheist, prove there is no god."
Of course the absence of a god is also as impossible to prove as the existence of god.

Then who has the burden of proof, the theist or the a-theist?

Not believing the claim that god exists does not mean one also believes there IS no god.
There are some atheist who claim there is no god, but all you need to be an atheist is to not accept the claim that god exists.

I'm not one of the atheists who believes there is no god..
When/if the burden of proof has been met I will believe there is a god.

Of course then I'd have to determine which god is real since we've invented so many throughout time and around the world.
And just because the existence of god gets proven doesn't mean the Bible or koran et. al are the word of god.
A bottomless can of worms.

Here's a detail often overlooked ...
When one does not accept the theist's god claim, people wrongly assume that the disbeliever also believes there is no god. Not so.
For me atheist means not accepting the claim that god exists; but I won't state that no god exists because I just don't know.
Two very different things but the difference is lost on many,

The gumboil analogy helps some understand why not believing in god is not the same as believing there is no god ...

theatheistexperience gumball analogy

I don't remember just when I formed my disbelief, or maybe a better way to put it is that belief just never formed. But I remember when I was a kid pretending to believe, because I felt like I was supposed to. Because everyone around me did, even though my family wasn't particularly religious. I never hid my atheism once I grew up.

I need to add, the craziest thing I hear believers do is when they tell you ' isn't it better to be safe and believe, just in case there is a heaven?" As if I can choose to believe something.

 

[Matata]

' isn't it better to be safe and believe, just in case there is a heaven?"

Lol, fake it til you make it faith.

 

[Demon]

Lol, fake it til you make it faith.

It's bizarre. And I hear it, or mostly read it on forums all the time.

 

[seaurchin]

It's bizarre. And I hear it, or mostly read it on forums all the time.

Just have to comment here. It cracked me up to hear "Demon's" responses in this thread.

 

[PastryGirl]

Reportedly a third of America is atheist, or have no affiliation or participation in any religion, or however they word it.

But of course, in America good luck with counting us; it's like a 1955 poll in the bible belt asking all the homosexuals to raise their hands.
Shame has driven us into the closets, as gays and as atheists, shame that originated in religions and became the inherent social fabric of America.

DEI is the acronym for Diversity, Equality, and Inclusion.
Yet in 2023 America, atheists (a huge demographic) are not included in the inclusion acronym that names many smaller groups.
DEI still does not include atheists in all the non-discrimination policies of a zillion organizations.

I know many groups (who cannot be named) preach that atheists eat babies, etc.
Kinda like all homosexuals are child molesters - this preached from the altars of the PS-unnamable org.

I knew this clip was coming when I read the thread title. Thank you!

 

[kenny]

I knew this clip was coming when I read the thread title. Thank you!

Clip?
Are you referring to the link to the gumball analogy, which spellcheck changed to gumboil?

 

[PastryGirl]

Clip?
Are you referring to the link to the gumball analogy, which spellcheck changed to gumboil?

The Bill Maher clip! Someone told me about it but I hadn’t watched it, so when I saw the title of this thread I figured it would be in there. I think he’s correct and I’m glad he brought it up.

Kind of reminds me how in previous jobs people could take unlimited smoke breaks without being bothered BUT anyone else couldn’t (or still can’t) just walk out and take a break every hour. Lol

 

[Cinders]

I don't think it would be particularly difficult for an atheist to win a political race. But, I haven't known many people who would write off someone based solely on their religious beliefs/non-beliefs.

Parents, on the other hand, are a different story on both sides of the coin. Parents tend to want what's best for their children so belief/non-belief is often still something most parents want to instill in their own children. I'd say it's largely only when the parents don't have strong opinions either way that the children are left to figure it out on their own.

Obviously, these are just my opinions so take this for whatever it's worth to you.

Edited to add: I cannot watch the clip right now so I don't have that for context, if it is needed for this discussion.

 

[Ella]

Folks please remember to not vilinize entire religions, groups of people, ethnicities, etc. keep it general or the thread will be closed.

 

[Matata]

Just FYI -

I am a Christian and have family members and friends who are atheists. We have very different beliefs but have many interesting conversations and manage to be polite and kind to each other. Also I don’t play the blame game with them that everything bad is because of atheism.

Just a different perspective.

It's not what happens between friends that atheists are opposed to. It doesn't matter to me what an individual or a group believes. What matters to me if when the line is crossed and religious beliefs inform policy that affect not only those who aren't religious but those who are members of religions that are not christian -- Islam for example. Separation of church and state is eroded in the US and that is not ok.

 

[kenny]

Please stay on topic.

 

[MMtwo]

My mother watches religious TV all day long.
If I told her how I really feel, she would be very upset. So I avoid all religious discussions with her. I am very good at changing the subject.

So Kenny, you are exactly right. I guess I am in the closet. Its sad that I can't be honest with her. She would never understand. She's been brainwashed by the televangelists.

This! I have a mom like this. She was so strident and religious and whipped into a frenzy that each of us declined to follow in her belief system. I deflect and refuse to catch what she tosses my way. I certainly don't act religious for show, where I swear the church ladies work hard to "out Christian" each other. Jesus is not the father on one-ups.

It is very much a shame that this happens, and I find it toxic and exploitative.

/rant


Edit, on topic...because DEI can only do so many things at once. My employer is awesome and decided to make all holidays floating so you can do as you like, worship as you like, whatever. There needs to be room & welcome for everyone.