Why, oh, why, this quality?

[Pinkmartini87]

It's OK to love your windowed stones, everybody needs love, but as long as gems are bought for color and luster, windows will be counter-beauty.

@Anne111 I think it's a little harsh to call them counter beauty: I understand they may not be trade standard, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder and I think for the Bvlgari piece you shared, the windowed stone has a color and luster of its own and fits better with the aesthetic of the piece than say, a precision cut stone, at least in my humble opinion. All I'm saying is that trade standard is not everyone's preference, and while one can certainly say windowed stones are not trade standard, it's a bit closeminded to say they are simply "counter" aka "against" beauty. That's simply your opinion.

Of course, this is only my opinion also and at the end of the day we all have our own opinions and preferences. All I'm trying to say is that perhaps not every windowed stone hideous, just like not every windowless stone is beautiful either. This must be made on a case by case basis, with an open mind.

Thanks for sharing the Bvlgari piece, I enjoyed it very much!

 

[Pinkmartini87]

You and anyone else that is interested might find this interesting;

https://www.gemsociety.org/article/the-history-of-lapidary/

@arkieb1 Thanks very much for sharing! Will read it now!

 

[Shijitake]

What they say makes sense, but it's still not a good explanation to why they charge a bazillion dollars for low quality items. Companies will give you a good explanation for something even if it's partial truth to save face. They'll never tell you the "bad" side. It's sales tactics.

I have to agree with Pinkmartini that that stone isn't really that bad. Even with the window there's still color. My new pigeon blood has a bit of a window like that but the red shines through so well and prevents it from getting too dark.

 

[Pinkmartini87]

What they say makes sense, but it's still not a good explanation to why they charge a bazillion dollars for low quality items. Companies will give you a good explanation for something even if it's partial truth to save face. They'll never tell you the "bad" side. It's sales tactics.

I have to agree with Pinkmartini that that stone isn't really that bad. Even with the window there's still color. My new pigeon blood has a bit of a window like that but the red shines through so well and prevents it from getting too dark.

@Shijitake Definitely agree with you in that I've never been much of a big brand name person, but simply buy what I love (whether it happens to be a great brand or not).

Not to hijack this thread but are you referring to the 1 carat emerald cut ruby you recently posted? I love that stone from the photos you've kindly shared. You know how folks always talk about the 4Cs when it comes to diamonds? Well, for me for besides "color, clarity, cut, carat", I think there should be a 5th C for all stones, colored or not colored, and that 5th C should stand for "character". And your stone has a lot of character! As does the Bvlgari piece, it certainly has character!

 

[Seaglow]

What they say makes sense, but it's still not a good explanation to why they charge a bazillion dollars for low quality items. Companies will give you a good explanation for something even if it's partial truth to save face. They'll never tell you the "bad" side. It's sales tactics.

I have to agree with Pinkmartini that that stone isn't really that bad. Even with the window there's still color. My new pigeon blood has a bit of a window like that but the red shines through so well and prevents it from getting too dark.

So you’ve received your stone? Would be interesting to see a photo of it. I guess now you get me why the shallow cut in pigeon blood can be advantageous for the color.

On the local vs. precision cut, the local cutters can be really good cutters but just prioritize weight in many cases. Remember, they are able to cut good melees that most precision cutters wouldn’t even touch because time, effort, and money ratio so the “native” cutters can be very skilled. And despite them being able to do windowless stones, weight is chosen...this because in the West, buyers maybe particular about the cut but those that are rich in gemstone history are more tolerant of cut, like say the US is more tolerant of heat treatment while the Burmese shy away from it.

I like precision cut and windowless stones in general but I’ve talked to a lot of people who do not prefer precision cuts because they look generic with no character....I guess this stems out from many synthetics that are machine cut and they look that way to them.

 

[Seaglow]

@Shijitake Definitely agree with you in that I've never been much of a big brand name person, but simply buy what I love (whether it happens to be a great brand or not).

Not to hijack this thread but are you referring to the 1 carat emerald cut ruby you recently posted? I love that stone from the photos you've kindly shared. You know how folks always talk about the 4Cs when it comes to diamonds? Well, for me for besides "color, clarity, cut, carat", I think there should be a 5th C for all stones, colored or not colored, and that 5th C should stand for "character". And your stone has a lot of character! As does the Bvlgari piece, it certainly has character!

Funny we posted at the same time about “character”. Lol.

 

[Pinkmartini87]

Funny we posted at the same time about “character”. Lol.

Indeed!!! I was just about to say also but you beat me to it!

 

[Seaglow]

....And requesting to see the ruby. Lol.

 

[Shijitake]

Agreed about character! I've bought some not so "perfect" stones because some of their "imperfections" looked appealing. One such was a sapphire that had so much inclusions, but looking at it close up, it looked like a galaxy inside it.

"I like precision cut and windowless stones in general but I’ve talked to a lot of people who do not prefer precision cuts because they look generic with no character....I guess this stems out from many synthetics that are machine cut and they look that way to them."

I'm so glad you brought that up because I'm one of those! I didn't know how to express it, especially here. I like precision cut and perfect color too but sometimes I'd like to see something that has a little more.

About the ruby, it's actually a different one I bought https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/can-i-get-some-opinions-on-this-ruby.244442/

Sorry about the wait, Seaglow! I'm having a hard time catching a day in the sun with my SLR to capture the best photos I can get. As you know it's difficult to capture the colors of a ruby and I didn't want to spam the threads with bad pictures, lol.

 

[Bluegemz]

This is my opinion.... take what you want leave the rest. I 100% disagree with the counter beauty statement, even when one is looking for color. Precision gemstones have a place, but they are NOT the end all...such blanket statements are never, ever true. If beauty were so narrowly defined, heaven help us.

Beauty is both collective and personal. Beauty ideals are changing constantly. Just look at Western body ideals when compared with the baroque figures. There is no such thing as an agreed upon beauty, and even popular standards are constantly evolving. We all may have differing standards, but no one’s aesthetic is more ‘true’ than another person’s.

Personally, I really appreciate that necklace. I think it shows cohesion of design, which is VERY rare. The stones are clearly not suppose to blast the eye and be the star of the show. They are restful, with the variations in hue which one sees in a beautiful pool of water. The necklace is a conversation between stones and design, to evoke a feeling and sentiment. What can be ugly about that? I also think that it shows innovation, and the boldness (rather than tiresome timidity ) to take risks.

People want inherently to make things like value and superiority static, but they aren’t. And all of the high aesthetics which people take for granted now came from shocking risks that people took before.

Colors can be used in many ways, like painters do. Sometimes they are used as an echo, a whisper, a seduction, to enhance other colors or to emphasize composition.. and sometimes they are used to command the eye. All of the uses are equally valid, and a softer color is no less beautiful than a saturated one. To say that precision gemstones have the most beautiful color is like saying that only pure color hues are beautiful.

Precision stones have the most enhancement of the stones natural color. If one is basing a design on color focus alone then it’s a perfect fit. But a meshing of many elements, such as in complex pieces, such strength in color may be overpowering, too bling etc, and subtlety of color may be much more fitting.

 

[Shijitake]

That puts together everything I felt about this necklace! It makes you look at the necklace as a whole, not just one or a few stand out stones. I love its soft effect rather than in-your-face.

I have to compare it to today's dancing competitions. Everyone wants that "WOW" moment, where someone does some crazy stunt, and neglecting real dancing and choreography. I appreciate slow dancing with emotion, or small, well coordinated, timed, and synched movements to mellow songs just as much as the high-powered energetic sets.

 

[Pinkmartini87]

@Bluegemz @Shijitake @Seaglow
Annnnd...this is why I love this forum. For this thread, what started off as a question by the OP regarding a necklace she felt looked inferior to her, has ironically gained favor with others that found the necklace beautiful as a whole. Maybe in a way this answers the OP's original question: the reason why certain pieces of jewelry such as this Bvlgari necklace sell, and sell for more than what some people believe it should, is because there's usually someone else out there who's in love with it. Large businesses like Bvlgari cater to a wide range of clientele and many varied tastes.

The "counter beauty" comment simply rubbed me the wrong way. I would never call precision cut gems "counter beauty" because that's applying my own opinion to make generalizations about a whole method of lapidary and its end results, and in some way indirectly insulting all those who love precision cut gems. We are free to speak our minds and share our opinions on this forum, of course, but hopefully in a open-minded, productive, and respective way. Blanket statements about all windowed stones, aka generalized stone-shaming, or rather window-shaming hehe , like body-shaming, should have no place on this forum. Each piece/stone must be given the chance to be evaluated for its own merit.

In the end, there's really no right and wrong with liking or not liking this necklace, only the marvelous individuality that is each of us. And that is what I come to this forum to celebrate.

 

[Pinkmartini87]

@Anne111 I just want to say that I do relate to you in some way; the topic of windows was one that intrigued me from the beginning also and I too am stubborn perhaps. In fact, if you see one of my earliest posts I asked about why so many of the esteemed specimens at the Smithsonian have large windows (the Logan sapphire for instance). At that time I had just learned about windows and really wanted to put it in a black and white perspective: I felt I had to make up my mind whether windows were bad or good, with no in between. I was especially torn later when I fell in love with my engagement ring which has a quite large window and debated for the longest time whether or not to get it.

But I think since then I've grown more open minded with the help of more expericenced folks on this forum, that one does not have to choose definitively between windowed and nonwindowed. Maybe windows aren't always a pane (sorry for the pun hehe), and although I certainly don't find all windows attractive, there are some windowed stones can be beautiful also, at least to me.

I think it's ok for folks to agree to disagree. That is something I love about jewelry also, that it has the power to evoke such strong and different reactions in different people, that we can be strangers across the world and yet feel compelled to converse with one another over a single Bvlgari jewelry piece.