Will McCain be a good President?

[goobear78]

In the honor of fairness, since we already have a much discussed topic on if Obama would be a good president, I thought we should start one about McCain.

So do you think McCain will be a good president? Why or why not?

I will post my opinion as well, but to get it started, I thought it best to leave it open first without me injecting right away.

And let''s remember to try and keep it friendly and not digress into name calling and the like. Unless it''s name calling McCain. Hee hee.

 

[movie zombie]

short and succinct: NO.

movie zombie

 

[ksinger]

Date: 10/20/2008 10:56:50 AM
Author: movie zombie
short and succinct: NO.

movie zombie

Allow me to weigh in with yet another incredibly-tired-of-this-whole-election-year-crap, terse answer.... No.

 

[Irishgrrrl]

Date: 10/20/2008 11:10:57 AM
Author: ksinger

Date: 10/20/2008 10:56:50 AM
Author: movie zombie
short and succinct: NO.

movie zombie

Allow me to weigh in with yet another incredibly-tired-of-this-whole-election-year-crap, terse answer.... No.

Thritto.

 

[sklingem]

If good means:
(a) diplomacy and caution instead of starting wars
(b) strong foreign alliances on equal footing
(c) inclusive and not divisive policies
(d) broad availability and more affordability of health care
(e) no more goodies for oil and insurance/drug companies
(f) emphasis on gender equality and no discrimination agains same-sex couples
(h) emphasis on reducing economic inequality and helping the lower/middle classes
(i) investment in education
(j) freedom of choice for women
(k) clear separation of church and state
(l) greater emphasis on environmental protection and energy saving
THEN, NO WAY!!!

 

[iheartscience]

Date: 10/20/2008 11:26:50 AM
Author: rob09
If good means:

(a) diplomacy and caution instead of starting wars
(b) strong foreign alliances on equal footing
(c) inclusive and not divisive policies
(d) broad availability and more affordability of health care
(e) no more goodies for oil and insurance/drug companies
(f) emphasis on gender equality and no discrimination agains same-sex couples
(h) emphasis on reducing economic inequality and helping the lower/middle classes
(i) investment in education
(j) freedom of choice for women
(k) clear separation of church and state
(l) greater emphasis on environmental protection and energy saving

THEN, NO WAY!!!

Let me just add:

(m) capable Vice President in case his health fails

And that about sums it up for me! Thanks, rob!

 

[decodelighted]

NO! ... But let McCain explain some of my reasons himself.

 

[E B]

Another resounding "NO" from me.

 

[mimzy]

Date: 10/20/2008 12:18:31 PM
Author: decodelighted
NO! ... But let McCain explain some of my reasons himself.

it''s kind of weird watching someone say "cold political calculation" with a smile.

 

[E B]

Date: 10/20/2008 12:44:15 PM
Author: mimzy

Date: 10/20/2008 12:18:31 PM

Author: decodelighted

NO! ... But let McCain explain some of my reasons himself.

it''s kind of weird watching someone say ''cold political calculation'' with a smile.

That was odd.

 

[decodelighted]

There's also a NY Times article today that posits, based on examination of McCain's old cancer files ... that his circa 2000 malignant cancer might have been worse than reported. Very likely was STAGE III, not STAGE II. Which would *significantly* impact his odds for survival 10 yrs out. Stage II = 60% chance of survival in 10 years. Stage III ... only 36%??? Ten years is 2010 people!! And even the mere *treatment* of new malignant cancer could involve giving over powers to the sitting VP *temporarily*.

SHUDDER.

p.s. -- did you know John McCain's own father passed away at 70? Of a heart attack.

 

[purrfectpear]

McCain won't win, so it's sort of moot now...but had he won I don't think he would have been so gawd-awful that I would have spent 4 years groaning. That said, his choice of running mate is the scariest thing about him IMO.

Initially I was Obama by default but lately I'm really warming to Obama on his own merits

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 10/20/2008 1:04:15 PM
Author: purrfectpear
his choice of running mate is the scariest thing about him IMO.

LOL ... Sort of agree! This election has brought out the worst out of him IMHO ... but was a telling preview of how the pressures of an administration would affect him. He'll always be a war hero & I respect him for his contributions to America that way. What I've learned about his *personality*, temperament and (for lack of a better word) "sportsmanship" .. yeesh.

 

[Linda W]

I was tired of hearing he was a prisoner of war. Runs and hides.

 

[ksinger]

OK... since this thread is in the interest of "fairness" I''m going to post the link here. I encourage all to read the first essay and then read some of the responses. It is not what you think, in spite of the title. No rolling of eyes and passing it by....Please don''t dismiss this just because perhaps you aren''t so fond of me personally or think you already know what this is about. This is fascinating stuff, I promise, thought-provoking rather than divisive, and much of it very true. A hard look in the mirror for us all, especially the liberals on the board....

What Makes People Vote Republican

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 10/20/2008 1:04:15 PM
Author: purrfectpear
McCain won''t win, so it''s sort of moot now...but had he won I don''t think he would have been so gawd-awful that I would have spent 4 years groaning. That said, his choice of running mate is the scariest thing about him IMO.

Initially I was Obama by default but lately I''m really warming to Obama on his own merits

should i pay the bookie now?

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 10/20/2008 3:07:11 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 10/20/2008 1:04:15 PM
Author: purrfectpear
McCain won't win,

should i pay the bookie now?

According to the biggest bookie in Ireland ... YES ya should (and you're a bit overdue already)!

 

[zhuzhu]

Date: 10/20/2008 1:57:41 PM
Author: ksinger
OK... since this thread is in the interest of 'fairness' I'm going to post the link here. I encourage all to read the first essay and then read some of the responses. It is not what you think, in spite of the title. No rolling of eyes and passing it by....Please don't dismiss this just because perhaps you aren't so fond of me personally or think you already know what this is about. This is fascinating stuff, I promise, thought-provoking rather than divisive, and much of it very true. A hard look in the mirror for us all, especially the liberals on the board....


What Makes People Vote Republican

First of all I want to thank you for sharing the article and and URL. I enjoyed reading them. However I must say while the author has presented an intellectually interesting view on the "goodness of Republican party", his rational is based on a number of assumptions that are simply biased and far removed from the real life. I like to present here a scholar's response to the original article.

Professor Schank's response to the long-winded article describing one's opinion on "American's need for mortality and how Republican party is better (?!) at providing that need".

ROGER SCHANK
Formerly Professor, Stanford, Yale, and Northwestern

Report From Florida

"The Haidt article is interesting, as are the responses to it, but these pieces are written by intellectuals who live in an environment where reasoned argument is prized. I live in Florida.

When I travel, I live the life of an intellectual. In Florida, I hang out with jocks and retirees. I try not to talk politics with them. When, it happens that I have no choice but to hear what they think about politics I take note of it. Here is what I have heard:

Obama is a Muslim. His pastor hates America. In fact nearly everyone outside of America hates America. If you travel outside of America, go on a cruise, so you won't have to eat whatever it is one eats in those places. You don't want to talk to the people either, but that’s not a problem because none of them speak English. And, anyway they all hate us for our freedoms. Obama will put Al Sharpton in the cabinet. Dick Cheney was the greatest Vice President in history. The Jews are running the country anyway.

I am not making this up. This is not a caricature. I wish I carried a tape recorder.

Why do these people vote Republican?

It is common to make the assumption that people are thinking when they vote and they are making reasoned choices. I harbor no such illusion. No argument I have ever gotten into with these people, (despite avoiding talking to them, I sometimes can't resist saying something true) has ever convinced anyone of anything. They are not reasoning, nor do they want to try. They simply believe what they believe. What do they believe?

1. They don't like blacks. Forget the rest. It isn't that they are racists. They will be polite if a black person ever appears. (This doesn't happen much, although I am sure they must live here too.) They just don't like them. They have no reason. If you ask them today, as a result of recent remarks by Michelle Obama and their pastor, they will say that blacks hate America. This is not the reason, but they sound more reasoned in their own minds if they say it that way.

2. They don't like wussies. The Democrats are always nominating wussies,—men who are not men. Obama looks like his wife runs the show at home. Kerry? Gore? Dukakis. Wussies. Not real men. Bad people are trying to kill us. We need to kill them first. Those guys wouldn't pull the trigger. (I am not making this up. I wish I were.)

3. They worry about money. Who wants to take their money away? Liberals of course. They want to give it to the blacks.

Where I live is not redneck country. There is a lot of church going but no talk about abortion or of being born again. There is a just a distaste and distrust for people not like us (which I am sure includes me.)

It is all very nice to come up with complex analyses of what is going on. As is often the case, the real answer is quite simple. Most people can't think very well. They were taught not to think by religion and by a school system that teaches that knowledge of state capitals and quadratic equations is what education is all about and that well reasoned argument and original ideas will not help on a multiple choice test.

We don't try to get the average child to think in this society so why, as adults would we expect that they actually would be thinking? They think about how the Yankees are doing, and who will win some reality show contest, and what restaurant to eat it, but they are not equipped to think about politics and, in my mind, they are not equipped to vote. The fact that we let them vote while failing to encourage them to think for themselves is a real problem for our society.

The scientific question here is how belief systems are acquired and changed. I worked on this problem with both Ken Colby and Bob Abelson for many years. Colby was a psychiatrist who modeled paranoid behavior on computers. The basis of his work was research on how neurotic thinking depends upon the attempt to make inconsistent beliefs work together when the core beliefs cannot change.

Abelson worked on modeling political belief systems. He built a very convincing model of Barry Goldwater that showed that once you adopted some simple beliefs about the cold war, every other position Goldwater took could be derived (and asserted by a computer) from those core beliefs. The idea of a set of unchanging core beliefs is not true of only politicians or psychiatric patients of course. Everyday average Joes behave the same way. Adult belief systems rest on childhood beliefs instilled by parents mostly and by assorted other authorities.

Republicans do not try to change voter's beliefs. They go with them. Democrats appeal to reason. Big mistake."

 

[E B]

This is funny.

McCain on Robocalls

McCain in 2000 (on robocalls against him): Calls them "hate calls," says "I promise you I have never and will never have anything to do with that kind of political tactic."

McCain in 2008 (on using robocalls as a political tactic): But...but...these are different! They''re true!

 

[goobear78]

Date: 10/20/2008 3:13:38 PM
Author: decodelighted

Date: 10/20/2008 3:07:11 PM

Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 10/20/2008 1:04:15 PM

Author: purrfectpear

McCain won''t win,

should i pay the bookie now?

According to the biggest bookie in Ireland ... YES ya should (and you''re a bit overdue already)!

You know, I''m not so sure. I really hope Obama wins, but I don''t think we can count it "game over" just yet.

It''s not over till the fat lady sings and the cable news media spends all night talking about it.

 

[luckystar112]

Date: 10/20/2008 3:20:21 PM
Author: zhuzhu

Date: 10/20/2008 1:57:41 PM
Author: ksinger
OK... since this thread is in the interest of ''fairness'' I''m going to post the link here. I encourage all to read the first essay and then read some of the responses. It is not what you think, in spite of the title. No rolling of eyes and passing it by....Please don''t dismiss this just because perhaps you aren''t so fond of me personally or think you already know what this is about. This is fascinating stuff, I promise, thought-provoking rather than divisive, and much of it very true. A hard look in the mirror for us all, especially the liberals on the board....


What Makes People Vote Republican

First of all I want to thank you for sharing the article and and URL. I enjoyed reading them. However I must say while the author has presented an intellectually interesting view on the ''goodness of Republican party'', his rational is based on a number of assumptions that are simply biased and far removed from the real life. I like to present here a scholar''s response to the original article.

Professor Schank''s response to the long-winded article describing one''s opinion on ''American''s need for mortality and how Republican party is better (?!) at providing that need''.

ROGER SCHANK
Formerly Professor, Stanford, Yale, and Northwestern

Report From Florida

''The Haidt article is interesting, as are the responses to it, but these pieces are written by intellectuals who live in an environment where reasoned argument is prized. I live in Florida.

When I travel, I live the life of an intellectual. In Florida, I hang out with jocks and retirees. I try not to talk politics with them. When, it happens that I have no choice but to hear what they think about politics I take note of it. Here is what I have heard:

Obama is a Muslim. His pastor hates America. In fact nearly everyone outside of America hates America. If you travel outside of America, go on a cruise, so you won''t have to eat whatever it is one eats in those places. You don''t want to talk to the people either, but that’s not a problem because none of them speak English. And, anyway they all hate us for our freedoms. Obama will put Al Sharpton in the cabinet. Dick Cheney was the greatest Vice President in history. The Jews are running the country anyway.

I am not making this up. This is not a caricature. I wish I carried a tape recorder.

Why do these people vote Republican?

It is common to make the assumption that people are thinking when they vote and they are making reasoned choices. I harbor no such illusion. No argument I have ever gotten into with these people, (despite avoiding talking to them, I sometimes can''t resist saying something true) has ever convinced anyone of anything. They are not reasoning, nor do they want to try. They simply believe what they believe. What do they believe?

1. They don''t like blacks. Forget the rest. It isn''t that they are racists. They will be polite if a black person ever appears. (This doesn''t happen much, although I am sure they must live here too.) They just don''t like them. They have no reason. If you ask them today, as a result of recent remarks by Michelle Obama and their pastor, they will say that blacks hate America. This is not the reason, but they sound more reasoned in their own minds if they say it that way.

2. They don''t like wussies. The Democrats are always nominating wussies,—men who are not men. Obama looks like his wife runs the show at home. Kerry? Gore? Dukakis. Wussies. Not real men. Bad people are trying to kill us. We need to kill them first. Those guys wouldn''t pull the trigger. (I am not making this up. I wish I were.)

3. They worry about money. Who wants to take their money away? Liberals of course. They want to give it to the blacks.

Where I live is not redneck country. There is a lot of church going but no talk about abortion or of being born again. There is a just a distaste and distrust for people not like us (which I am sure includes me.)

It is all very nice to come up with complex analyses of what is going on. As is often the case, the real answer is quite simple. Most people can''t think very well. They were taught not to think by religion and by a school system that teaches that knowledge of state capitals and quadratic equations is what education is all about and that well reasoned argument and original ideas will not help on a multiple choice test.

We don''t try to get the average child to think in this society so why, as adults would we expect that they actually would be thinking? They think about how the Yankees are doing, and who will win some reality show contest, and what restaurant to eat it, but they are not equipped to think about politics and, in my mind, they are not equipped to vote. The fact that we let them vote while failing to encourage them to think for themselves is a real problem for our society.

The scientific question here is how belief systems are acquired and changed. I worked on this problem with both Ken Colby and Bob Abelson for many years. Colby was a psychiatrist who modeled paranoid behavior on computers. The basis of his work was research on how neurotic thinking depends upon the attempt to make inconsistent beliefs work together when the core beliefs cannot change.

Abelson worked on modeling political belief systems. He built a very convincing model of Barry Goldwater that showed that once you adopted some simple beliefs about the cold war, every other position Goldwater took could be derived (and asserted by a computer) from those core beliefs. The idea of a set of unchanging core beliefs is not true of only politicians or psychiatric patients of course. Everyday average Joes behave the same way. Adult belief systems rest on childhood beliefs instilled by parents mostly and by assorted other authorities.

Republicans do not try to change voter''s beliefs. They go with them. Democrats appeal to reason. Big mistake.''

Wow. He''s really got us figured out.

 

[mrssalvo]

lucky..your response to zhuzhu''s post was MUCH less snarky than mine was going to be

 

[goobear78]

Date: 10/20/2008 3:43:54 PM
Author: mrssalvo
lucky..your response to zhuzhu''s post was MUCH less snarky than mine was going to be

Snark free zone, snark free zone!

Oh who am I kidding. Snark away. LOL.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 10/20/2008 3:13:38 PM
Author: decodelighted

Date: 10/20/2008 3:07:11 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 10/20/2008 1:04:15 PM
Author: purrfectpear
McCain won''t win,

should i pay the bookie now?

According to the biggest bookie in Ireland ... YES ya should (and you''re a bit overdue already)!

buttt....remember in 1948 when Truman shocked Dewey?.history will repeat itself

what if younger voters doesn''t show up and vote ?

 

[starsapphire]

I vote Republican because: I have certain religious beliefs that incline me to vote conservative. I am anti-abortion, pro-marriage between a man and a woman. I don''t believe in "wealth re-distribution", I also want the borders enforced. I want for our country to take care of itself, and get out of other countries. We should not be the big-handout for the world. I believe in preserving the environment, but not at the expense of protection of the country or our economy. I believe we should help the poor and those that can''t help themselves. I don''t believe in welfare for those that don''t need it. If you are able bodied, you should get a job, if you can.

PLEASE don''t attack me for my beliefs. I am simply stating WHY I tend to vote Republican.

 

[Irishgrrrl]

Date: 10/20/2008 3:57:02 PM
Author: starsapphire
I vote Republican because: I have certain religious beliefs that incline me to vote conservative. I am anti-abortion, pro-marriage between a man and a woman. I don''t believe in ''wealth re-distribution'', I also want the borders enforced. I want for our country to take care of itself, and get out of other countries. We should not be the big-handout for the world. I believe in preserving the environment, but not at the expense of protection of the country or our economy. I believe we should help the poor and those that can''t help themselves. I don''t believe in welfare for those that don''t need it. If you are able bodied, you should get a job, if you can.

PLEASE don''t attack me for my beliefs. I am simply stating WHY I tend to vote Republican.

Star, I''m an Independent with Democrat leanings, but I won''t attack you for your beliefs. In fact, I share the ones I''ve highlighted!

 

[zhuzhu]

Date: 10/20/2008 3:46:00 PM
Author: goobear78

Date: 10/20/2008 3:43:54 PM

Author: mrssalvo

lucky..your response to zhuzhu''s post was MUCH less snarky than mine was going to be

Snark free zone, snark free zone!


Oh who am I kidding. Snark away. LOL.

It is perfectly alright if people don''t like the opinions of those who holds opposing views. However it is in the interest of "fairness" that I suggest readers read both sides of scholarly views. I am glad to see that they certainly did!

 

[purrfectpear]

Well, I do know some redneck-type Republicans that fit the above description to a T. In fact I know some that are real conspiracy nutcases here in the midwest.

However, the majority of Republicans that I know from where I actually live in SoCal, are not the lower income Obama-hating redneck sort. They are the well-to-do "I got lots of money and I''m not giving YOU any" conservative Republicans. They vote Republican because they want closed borders, deported illegal aliens, less social services/welfare, and they DO NOT WANT TO HEAR ANYTHING ABOUT SPREADING THE WEALTH

It''s really a financial decision for the majority of my Repub friends. Nothing more, nothing less.

As I make over six figures, I''m all for a "little" spreading of the wealth. I see nothing wrong with my paying a slightly higher percentage of taxes than those who make less than $100K. Of course we know what that makes me....the "S" word

I would prefer to see a flat tax based on income. Under $50K pay 10%. Between $50K and $100K pay 13%, and above $100K pony up 15% and shut up already. Most people would love to make $100K/year. I really don''t get why those who make more are so unwilling to share a little. It''s not like it''s gonna kill us.

Think of the money the Govt. could save. Who needs the IRS, just total up the gross income and pay your percentage.

 

[princesss]

De-lurking to say:

Star, it''s nice to see somebody state, clearly and succinctly, why they vote the way they do. It''s also nice to see somebody that''s voting *for* something, rather than against. I know that''s not the trend here on ATW (to vote against something/someone) but the people I''ve talked to in my workplace and my area rarely seem to have thought out their positions.

While we disagree on many issues, I appreciate seeing somebody who knows their position on many issues, and votes based on them. I feel like that is truly what this process is supposed to be, instead of the mud-slinging three ring circus it is today.

*goes back to lurking*

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 10/20/2008 4:01:30 PM
Author: purrfectpear
Well, I do know some redneck-type Republicans that fit the above description to a T. In fact I know some that are real conspiracy nutcases here in the midwest.

However, the majority of Republicans that I know from where I actually live in SoCal, are not the lower income Obama-hating redneck sort. They are the well-to-do ''I got lots of money and I''m not giving YOU any'' conservative Republicans. They vote Republican because they want closed borders, deported illegal aliens, less social services/welfare, and they DO NOT WANT TO HEAR ANYTHING ABOUT SPREADING THE WEALTH

me too!!

think of all the taxpayer''s $$$ our country will save.