Wishing Well Wording

[hawaiianorangetree]

Date: 4/21/2010 1:04:49 PM
Author: Haven
HOT--I just came back to say that I didn't mean my earlier post to sound snarky, but I think it came off that way. I'm just curious about the differences in the way things are done in the US (where I'm located) and Australia. I don't see a distinction between a honeymoon registry and asking for cash, so if that's what you're talking about I find it pretty fascinating that there's a distinction. That's all!

Haven you didn't come off snarky at all

and I understand how people in the US find it a little odd how we do it in Australia.

We did ask for cash in lieu of gifts, i just didn't put it into a poem.

I don't see the diference in a honeymoon fund or cash either. We just wanted to let people know where their cash would be going. (In our case we had paid for flights and accommodation and since we paid for the wedding ourselves it left us with little cash to actually enjoy ourselves on our honeymoon, so that was how we would be spending our gifts, i also explained this to people in person as well). So the 'honeymoon fund' really is just cash, but i thought it would be nice for people to know what we were planning to do with it.

I think the main difference between the US and OZ (i think) is that it is standard to give cash at weddings in the US where in Australia, people (traditionally) give gifts (either from registries or choosing for themselves). Word of mouth works well in the US because cash is a normal gift, whereas since it is a fairly new thing here, word of mouth would probably be a little off putting for some guests.. hence the poems that are out there.

I don't like the poems at all, i find them extremely tacky and i feel that if you are going to ask for money in lieu of gifts, just ask for it because putting it into a poem certainly doesn't make it any better! (IMO).

I hope that has answered all of your questions!!

ETA: I just wanted to say that my take on things could be completely wrong but this was how i judged the situation between our two countries!

 

[kittybean]

Date: 4/21/2010 12:48:34 PM
Author: legallyspoiled
I read in an etiquette book somewhere that it is inappropriate to put ANY gift information in the formal wedding invitation...including registry information. Since every woman who is invited to the wedding is SUPPOSED to be invited to the bridal shower, registry information MAY be included in the shower invitation. The proper method is word of mouth.

I never knew this. I thought showers were for close friends and family? I''ve always attended smaller showers, and though I had a relatively big wedding, I only had about 20 women at my shower (invited maybe 30).

 

[JulieN]

Date: 4/21/2010 9:54:16 PM
Author: kittybean

Date: 4/21/2010 12:48:34 PM

Author: legallyspoiled

I read in an etiquette book somewhere that it is inappropriate to put ANY gift information in the formal wedding invitation...including registry information. Since every woman who is invited to the wedding is SUPPOSED to be invited to the bridal shower, registry information MAY be included in the shower invitation. The proper method is word of mouth.

I never knew this. I thought showers were for close friends and family? I''ve always attended smaller showers, and though I had a relatively big wedding, I only had about 20 women at my shower (invited maybe 30).

I believe it is the other way around--every person invited to the shower should be invited to the wedding.

 

[Lozza]

I think it''s so much ruder to return the gifts you requested, than to simply ask for cash.

Just my 2c.

 

[legallyspoiled]

Date: 4/22/2010 2:48:37 AM
Author: JulieN

Date: 4/21/2010 9:54:16 PM

Author: kittybean

Date: 4/21/2010 12:48:34 PM


Author: legallyspoiled


I read in an etiquette book somewhere that it is inappropriate to put ANY gift information in the formal wedding invitation...including registry information. Since every woman who is invited to the wedding is SUPPOSED to be invited to the bridal shower, registry information MAY be included in the shower invitation. The proper method is word of mouth.

I never knew this. I thought showers were for close friends and family? I''ve always attended smaller showers, and though I had a relatively big wedding, I only had about 20 women at my shower (invited maybe 30).

I believe it is the other way around--every person invited to the shower should be invited to the wedding.

It''s an old rule. But nope, thats the rule. I''ve seen it in two places. My big bible of etiquette rules and another book about weddings or showers. I think weddings have gotten so big that it just isn''t practical to invite every woman on your guestlist anymore.

Clearly this is a rule that I plan on breaking!

 

[KittyGolightly]

The rule really is the other way around - no one should be invited to a wedding shower who is not also invited to the wedding.

 

[Haven]

Date: 4/22/2010 10:32:23 AM
Author: legallyspoiled

Date: 4/22/2010 2:48:37 AM
Author: JulieN

Date: 4/21/2010 9:54:16 PM
Author: kittybean

Date: 4/21/2010 12:48:34 PM
Author: legallyspoiled
I read in an etiquette book somewhere that it is inappropriate to put ANY gift information in the formal wedding invitation...including registry information. Since every woman who is invited to the wedding is SUPPOSED to be invited to the bridal shower, registry information MAY be included in the shower invitation. The proper method is word of mouth.

I never knew this. I thought showers were for close friends and family? I've always attended smaller showers, and though I had a relatively big wedding, I only had about 20 women at my shower (invited maybe 30).

I believe it is the other way around--every person invited to the shower should be invited to the wedding.

It's an old rule. But nope, thats the rule. I've seen it in two places. My big bible of etiquette rules and another book about weddings or showers. I think weddings have gotten so big that it just isn't practical to invite every woman on your guestlist anymore.

Clearly this is a rule that I plan on breaking!

Out of curiosity, who wrote the etiquette book in which you found this "rule"? I own a copy of every (credible) etiquette book known to man, and find that the information regarding bridal shower invites is contrary to what you're sharing, here. (My Emily Post book is currently on loan, so I suppose that book could espouse this "rule" but I don't think it's likely.)

Amy Vanderbilt and Judith Martin (AKA Miss Manners) both state that you only invite the women closest to you to a bridal shower. Miss Manners also notes that it is bad form to invite out-of-town guests to a bridal shower, as well. I agree on that point, too, which of course is one more reason that you do *not* invite every woman to the shower.

There are a lot of very poorly informed books out there on etiquette*, so I'd choose my sources carefully. You can find a website purporting to give etiquette advice to support many rude behaviors out there, as well, so just be careful about whom you choose to believe.

The guideline that the credible etiquette mavens share is that you do not invite anyone to the shower who is not also invited to the wedding. Not the other way around. Just an FYI.

ETA:
*Example: Even that garish woman from that Real Housewives show published a book on etiquette--and she goes around *telling* people when they're behaving rudely! (Not to mention the host of other equally tasteless things she regularly does ON CAMERA!) See, anyone can claim to be an etiquette expert!

 

[Haven]

I forgot to add something I found that is actually pertinent to the topic of this thread!

Amy Vanderbilt addresses the "Wishing well gimmick" (as she calls it) and apparently, the original version of the wishing well is an actual model of a wishing well at the shower where guests are asked to place small gifts. People apparently wrote something along the lines of "Please bring a contribution to the couple''s wishing well" on an insert and included it with the invitation. She doesn''t support even this form of a wishing well because it is then asking guests to bring two gifts instead of one. I just thought that was interesting.

 

[Haven]

Date: 4/22/2010 5:58:20 AM
Author: Lozza
I think it''s so much ruder to return the gifts you requested, than to simply ask for cash.

Just my 2c.

I agree that it''s rude to return gifts for which you registered.
I think it''s rude to *ask* for cash as well, but I do not think it''s rude to honestly answer guests when they ask you what you''d like for the wedding or shower. I think to *reply* to the inquiry by saying "We''d really love anything, of course, but we''d prefer cash" isn''t nearly as bad as stating your preference in the actual invite or elsewhere. (To just come out and tell people that you want cash is being so presumptuous.)

 

[legallyspoiled]

All of my books are boxed up in storage. (When I moved in with FF, there wasn''t enough space for both of our stuff.)

I think that it is fairly obvious that you would never invite someone to your shower who you weren''t going to invite to your wedding.

You don''t have to take my word on the rule. It was just an aside anyway. And like I said, nobody does it anymore anyway and it wasn''t the topic of this thread. Therefore, it''s not worth debating because the answer doesn''t really matter anyway.

 

[Haven]

You misunderstand my post, legallyspoiled. I''m *genuinely* interested in hearing where you read about this because I have a genuine interest in these matters. I''m not trying to debate with you, and I''m sorry that it came across that way.

I suppose you could say that etiquette is my secondary research interest. If you ever do come across that book again, I''d love to check it out. That''s all.

 

[legallyspoiled]

Date: 4/22/2010 1:57:09 PM
Author: Haven
You misunderstand my post, legallyspoiled. I''m *genuinely* interested in hearing where you read about this because I have a genuine interest in these matters. I''m not trying to debate with you, and I''m sorry that it came across that way.


I suppose you could say that etiquette is my secondary research interest. If you ever do come across that book again, I''d love to check it out. That''s all.

My bad. We will blame it on the lawyer in me, lol. You''d be amazed how many people argue with me just for the sake of arguing with me. I don''t know if they are trying to see if they can win and brag...I don''t know. It has made me become more defensive than I would like. And it is so hard to "read between the lines" sometimes in posts, emails, texts etc. I''m sorry! Can we hug now? lol

If I am ever reunited with my babies (I love my books), I will be sure to pass along the name and title.

 

[caribqueen]

Maybe you guys could start a new thread about etiquette sources and books.

 

[Haven]

Haha--That's an interesting occupational hazard to have, legallyspoiled! (Your name makes more sense now, too.)

I'm an English teacher, so I suppose I tend to think people are looking to get into an involved conversation about everything, myself.

ETA: Sorry for the threadjack, all.

 

[hawaiianorangetree]

Date: 4/22/2010 12:08:50 PM
Author: Haven

Date: 4/22/2010 5:58:20 AM
Author: Lozza
I think it''s so much ruder to return the gifts you requested, than to simply ask for cash.

Just my 2c.

I agree that it''s rude to return gifts for which you registered.
I think it''s rude to *ask* for cash as well, but I do not think it''s rude to honestly answer guests when they ask you what you''d like for the wedding or shower. I think to *reply* to the inquiry by saying ''We''d really love anything, of course, but we''d prefer cash'' isn''t nearly as bad as stating your preference in the actual invite or elsewhere. (To just come out and tell people that you want cash is being so presumptuous.)

I just have to say that i think it is really unfair for you to make this comment again after it was explained to you that it is a normal custom in Australia.

 

[Haven]

????

Why does the fact that something is accepted in one culture make it unfair for anyone to have a different opinion of it? I will *always* stand up for my right to have my own beliefs and opinions, just as you have the right to yours.

I imagine that there are things that are accepted in American culture with which you disagree or don't understand. I would never presume to think that just because something is acceptable in my country *you* must accept it, too.

I tend to find it fascinating how different cultures (and even social circles) perceive different behaviors. If I reacted by thinking that people are being unfair by having a different opinion, well, then I'd never learn much or expand my realm of experience. I'd be too busy being offended to learn anything.

And FWIW, there are social circles here in the US where it is acceptable to ask for cash, as well. Yet, the practice still offends *my* sensibilities.

 

[hawaiianorangetree]

Date: 4/22/2010 7:13:20 PM
Author: hawaiianorangetree

Date: 4/22/2010 12:08:50 PM
Author: Haven

Date: 4/22/2010 5:58:20 AM
Author: Lozza
I think it''s so much ruder to return the gifts you requested, than to simply ask for cash.

Just my 2c.

I agree that it''s rude to return gifts for which you registered.
I think it''s rude to *ask* for cash as well, but I do not think it''s rude to honestly answer guests when they ask you what you''d like for the wedding or shower. I think to *reply* to the inquiry by saying ''We''d really love anything, of course, but we''d prefer cash'' isn''t nearly as bad as stating your preference in the actual invite or elsewhere. (To just come out and tell people that you want cash is being so presumptuous.)

I just have to say that i think it is really unfair for you to make this comment again after it was explained to you that it is a normal custom in Australia.

and for the record.. we didn''t *ask* for cash. We asked people to simply consider the idea of giving cash, and if they weren''t comfortable with that, then they were more than welcome to purchase a more traditional gift.

The couple who we knew didn''t like to give cash at weddings (they gave hubbys sister presents and stated that they declined to give to their honeymoon fund) gave us cash and a present from the registry, so we couldn''t possibly have been completely ''rude'' with the way we chose to inform our guests.

I felt that the way we chose to get the word out was a far more practical way than by word of mouth. I didn''t want our guests to have to be calling up and asking what we would like. And i honestly DONT see the difference between the two.. how is one so rude and the other completely acceptable when they are both still asking for cash!

 

[Haven]

HOT--I wasn't talking about you! I was responding to a general post about a general practice! Everything I've read from you on PS has been lovely, you seem like a lovely and intelligent individual, and was not talking about you when I responded to anything in this thread!

You asked what the difference is between stating what you want in writing and letting people know by word of mouth. This is how I see the difference:
When you state what you want in writing (on an enclosure in an invite, or on the invite itself, or on a wedding website, for example) then you are telling people what you'd like them to give to you *without* being asked by them what you'd like. This means you are presuming that they are going to give you a gift, AND that they would like for you to dictate what that gift is.
On the other hand, if you wait until people ask what you'd like and reply honestly by saying you'd like cash, then you are not presuming either of those things.
Does that make sense?

ALL THAT BEING SAID, if I ever have the good fortune of being invited to the wedding of an Australian friend, then I will NOT think it reflects poorly on her if she states that she'd prefer cash on an enclosure because *you* have taught me that this is a common thing in Australia. I will send her the cash she wants! And happily!

ETA: I wasn't using all those exclamation marks to express anger, just emphasis. Think Walt Whitman.

I write all of this from a happy place.

 

[hawaiianorangetree]

Date: 4/22/2010 8:40:32 PM
Author: Haven
HOT--I wasn''t talking about you!

Sorry Haven i did take it personally. You asked me about my first comment and i replied, after i read what you said to Lozza (another Aussie) i felt it was directed at me (as an australian) and for the way i chose to deal with it.

Sorry i snapped.. i think i must need more sleep!

 

[hawaiianorangetree]

Date: 4/22/2010 8:40:32 PM
Author: Haven
HOT--I wasn''t talking about you! I was responding to a general post about a general practice! Everything I''ve read from you on PS has been lovely, you seem like a lovely and intelligent individual, and was not talking about you when I responded to anything in this thread!

You asked what the difference is between stating what you want in writing and letting people know by word of mouth. This is how I see the difference:
When you state what you want in writing (on an enclosure in an invite, or on the invite itself, or on a wedding website, for example) then you are telling people what you''d like them to give to you *without* being asked by them what you''d like. This means you are presuming that they are going to give you a gift, AND that they would like for you to dictate what that gift is.
On the other hand, if you wait until people ask what you''d like and reply honestly by saying you''d like cash, then you are not presuming either of those things.
Does that make sense?

ALL THAT BEING SAID, if I ever have the good fortune of being invited to the wedding of an Australian friend, then I will NOT think it reflects poorly on her if she states that she''d prefer cash on an enclosure because *you* have taught me that this is a common thing in Australia. I will send her the cash she wants! And happily!

ETA: I wasn''t using all those exclamation marks to express anger, just emphasis. Think Walt Whitman.

I write all of this from a happy place.

Thats a very good point. Thank you for pointing that out Haven

 

[Haven]

In retrospect I shouldn't have continued to comment. I come back to threads like these because the one thing I've learned on PS is that there is so much to be learned about the way different cultures and circles perceive things, and I love to read all about it.

I think I got so into this thread because I had never heard of a wishing well, so it was especially interesting to me.

One thing I struggle with is how hard it is to share your opinions about a certain practice without offending or sounding judgmental of people who do it differently. It's a double-edged sword, because I like to hear everyone's differing opinions, but then people are so likely to be hurt by them, as well.

The funny part of it all? For as much as I love to discuss these issues of etiquette, I rarely think twice about the things people do IRL. My friends are so ethnically, socially, and culturally diverse that we're all over the place regarding how we do things, and I love it!

ETA: And re: the gift thing, as much as one part of me finds it presumptuous when people say they want cash, the rational part of me realizes that it is best to give people what they want if I'm going to give them a gift. After all--that's the point, right? To give people what they want. I come from such uptight stock, they did a good number on me when it comes to propriety, but I'm working on it.

 

[hawaiianorangetree]

Date: 4/22/2010 9:16:09 PM
Author: Haven
In retrospect I shouldn''t have continued to comment. I come back to threads like these because the one thing I''ve learned on PS is that there is so much to be learned about the way different cultures and circles perceive things, and I love to read all about it.

I think I got so into this thread because I had never heard of a wishing well, so it was especially interesting to me.

One thing I struggle with is how hard it is to share your opinions about a certain practice without offending or sounding judgmental of people who do it differently. It''s a double-edged sword, because I like to hear everyone''s differing opinions, but then people are so likely to be hurt by them, as well.

The funny part of it all? For as much as I love to discuss these issues of etiquette, I rarely think twice about the things people do IRL. My friends are so ethnically, socially, and culturally diverse that we''re all over the place regarding how we do things, and I love it!

ETA: And re: the gift thing, as much as one part of me finds it presumptuous when people say they want cash, the rational part of me realizes that it is best to give people what they want if I''m going to give them a gift. After all--that''s the point, right? To give people what they want. I come from such uptight stock, they did a good number on me when it comes to propriety, but I''m working on it.

Not at all Haven! You always provide a wealth of information and insight for everyone here on PS, and it is good to learn from others (myslef included).

 

[Cynd33]

Hi Danielle,

If it''s not too late here is what we used:

In our home we have many things
That living together always brings
Toasters and tumblers we have bought
And because of this we have thought
A honeymoon donation would be great
If any of our special guests wish to participate.
So we can travel overseas, far and wide
But never leave each other’s side
And when our honey moon is all done
We’ll have great memories and can thank you for all our fun.

I also created a online honeymoon registry on www.notanothertoaster.com.au for those who didn''t feel comfortable giving cash. Our guests really loved the idea as they were still able to select a ''gift'' in a sense.

My background is Asian, my husband is Australian. We have been to many weddings here in Australia and wishing wells are very common and I don''t feel it offensive at all. In asian culture money is always the traditional gift as well so every culture is different!

Hope that helps. Best of luck!

 

[Haven]

Thanks for saying that, HOT.

Cynd--I LOVE the name of your honeymoon registry, that''s hilarious!

 

[Cynd33]

Date: 4/22/2010 10:23:49 PM
Author: Haven
Thanks for saying that, HOT.

Cynd--I LOVE the name of your honeymoon registry, that''s hilarious!

Thanks Haven.

As a joke one of our guests (a close family friend) actually gave us a toaster after receiving the invite. The card read "not another toaster, this is THE toaster" - very tongue in cheek aussie humour

Ironically we really needed a new toaster!! It''s sitting in my kitchen now ha!

 

[geri]

It's funny how experience varies because I am Australian and I have never seen a wishing well at a wedding and have only once been asked for cash (with a tacky poem) but maybe that's because I am one of the last of my friend's to get married and I am probably a little older (mid thirties).

I also agree with Lozza that I would be uncomfortable exchanging gifts I had received for cash.