Woman proposing to Man - Need some helps!!!

[WorkingHardforSmallRewards]

Date: 10/3/2007 1:19:48 AM
Author: musey
P.S. If that actually is how you interpreted my first post, I''m gonna need some clarification on yours! Because I could only understand yours if I assumed you''d misunderstood mine... sorry

well, right or wrong, i interpreted:

"if women and men are equals, why can''t the woman be the one to do the proposing..." but I don''t think society''s view on relationships has evolved quite that much yet."


to be that if society--or people--did develop to a point where men and women were equal, then female proposals would be as common or accepted as male proposals.

to which I was just saying that there are alot more obstacles to overcome in making that a reality, aside from just equality and that a man or woman can feel his fiance to be his equal and still hold on to certain traditions that might seem to imply otherwise.

 

[WorkingHardforSmallRewards]

Date: 10/3/2007 1:19:48 AM
Author: musey
P.S. If that actually is how you interpreted my first post, I''m gonna need some clarification on yours! Because I could only understand yours if I assumed you''d misunderstood mine... sorry

well, right or wrong, i interpreted:

"if women and men are equals, why can''t the woman be the one to do the proposing...but I don''t think society''s view on relationships has evolved quite that much yet."


to be that if society--or people--did develop to a point where men and women were equal, then female proposals would be as common or accepted as male proposals.

to which I was just saying that there are alot more obstacles to overcome in making that a reality, aside from just equality and that a man or woman can feel his fiance to be his equal and still hold on to certain traditions that might seem to imply otherwise.

 

[WorkingHardforSmallRewards]

Date: 10/3/2007 1:19:48 AM
Author: musey
P.S. If that actually is how you interpreted my first post, I''m gonna need some clarification on yours! Because I could only understand yours if I assumed you''d misunderstood mine... sorry

well, right or wrong, i interpreted:

"if women and men are equals, why can''t the woman be the one to do the proposing...but I don''t think society''s view on relationships has evolved quite that much yet."


to be that if society--or people--did develop to a point where men and women were equal, then female proposals would be as common or leas as accepted as male proposals.

to which I was just saying that there are alot more obstacles to overcome in making that a reality, aside from just equality and that a man or woman can feel his fiance to be his equal and still hold on to certain traditions that might seem to imply otherwise.

 

[stebbo]

Date: 10/3/2007 1:18:35 AM
Author: musey
Hmm, stebbo and WHFSR, I think you both entirely misunderstood my post!

No misunderstanding, my thoughts above were simply prompted by what you were saying, and weren't in support or opposition in any way.

Date: 10/3/2007 1:18:35 AM
Author: musey
Hmm, stebbo and WHFSR, I think you both entirely misunderstood my post!

And stebbo, no, the guy's not always 'just saving for the diamond'

But you're not supposed to know that....

We just have.... men's issues...

ETA: I just reread my post above and saw the ambiguity.

 

[musey]

Date: 10/3/2007 1:41:57 AM
Author: WorkingHardforSmallRewards

i interpreted:

'if women and men are equals, why can't the woman be the one to do the proposing...but I don't think society's view on relationships has evolved quite that much yet.'

to be that if society--or people--did develop to a point where men and women were equal, then female proposals would be as common or accepted as male proposals.

No, you interpreted it to mean almost the opposite of what I intended! I was stating that society (for the most part) has evolved to the point that men and women are equal, but that there is more standing in the way of the social acceptability of a woman proposing than social equality (particularly, the fact that women are commonly ready for marriage earlier than their partners ON TOP OF the fact that it is "against tradition").

If you read that first post with that understanding, hopefully it will make much more sense now.


Stebbo, what made me think you'd misunderstood my post was this:

if you're basing something on 'rules of equality' or generalizations, then you're not being true to yourselves and your unique relationship.

Should I assume you mean "you" as in "a person" as opposed to me? If so, then I understand where it came from (women/couples shouldn't base their decisions on rules of equality or generalizations?).

 

[stebbo]

Ok WHFSR, triple post. Is that how you knocked up 1000 posts in 3 months?

 

[stebbo]

Date: 10/3/2007 2:57:02 AM
Author: musey

Stebbo, what made me think you'd misunderstood my post was this:

Should I assume you mean 'you' as in 'a person' as opposed to me? If so, then I understand where it came from (women/couples shouldn't base their decisions on rules of equality or generalizations?).

Exactly - I should have used 'one' instead of 'you'. I didn't notice it until I reread after trying to understand your response.

 

[musey]

I get it then! And you''re absolutely right

 

[musey]

Date: 10/3/2007 2:57:02 AM
Author: musey

I was stating that society (for the most part) has evolved to the point that men and women are equal, but that there is more standing in the way of the social acceptability of a woman proposing than social equality (particularly, the fact that women are commonly ready for marriage earlier than their partners ON TOP OF the fact that it is ''against tradition'').

In other words, I was saying "society" hasn''t evolved to the point where equality is enough to make a woman proposing "normal" and "accepted," even though it should be. (That''s where the "I would like to say" and "society hasn''t evolved to that point" from my first post come in.)

Most of us ladies essentially propose by telling our sig. others that we want to marry them. I told my FI that many times before he proposed. His proposal was just the answer to my less formal one

(But does he think of it that way? Of course not!

)

 

[WorkingHardforSmallRewards]

Date: 10/3/2007 2:59:13 AM
Author: stebbo
Ok WHFSR, triple post. Is that how you knocked up 1000 posts in 3 months?

hahaha...no, If I had that problem all along I would be well ahead of 1k now. My 1k was rightfully earned via my diamond purchase obsession and then arguments

 

[stebbo]

Date: 10/3/2007 6:17:27 PM
Author: WorkingHardforSmallRewards

Date: 10/3/2007 2:59:13 AM

Author: stebbo

Ok WHFSR, triple post. Is that how you knocked up 1000 posts in 3 months?

hahaha...no, If I had that problem all along I would be well ahead of 1k now. My 1k was rightfully earned via my diamond purchase obsession and then arguments

You bet! And they're not one-line posts either! I do wish you weren't so verbose though as I enjoy your point of view and enthusiasm, but balk when see how looooongggg they can sometimes be!

 

[WorkingHardforSmallRewards]

You bet! And they're not one-line posts either! I do wish you weren't so verbose though as I enjoy your point of view and enthusiasm, but balk when see how looooongggg they can sometimes be!

EDIT: MY NEW RESPONSE,

Suffice it to say, good grades or bad, I never had a problem reaching my page limit minimums throughout school

_______________________



IF you want to read my original response, for the sake of entertainment and to make fun of myself, you can see that below:


lol, I know...I balk when I start to consider editing my posts sometimes....too much time involved in that....

(I can remember one instance, a long time ago now, where some teacher told me that my 20 line sentences were too verbose--but, she said that it was also a mark of intelligence. Now, I don't believe that myself, I think its more just a mark of...verbosity....lol, but I wonder if it is just my nature (when I am writing I just keep coming up with things to say and want to add--so perhaps it is a mark of my lack of organization and planning skills) or perhaps hearing her say that I developed poor habits, thinking that it was better to represent myself as intelligent at the cost of being wordy....suffice it to say though, good grades or bad, I never had a problem reaching my page limit minimums throughout school

)


Though I know enough now to fix that problem when I take the time to edit my papers or really structure them before hand

 

[Circe]

Date: 10/3/2007 11:27:44 AM
Author: musey

Date: 10/3/2007 2:57:02 AM

Author: musey


I was stating that society (for the most part) has evolved to the point that men and women are equal, but that there is more standing in the way of the social acceptability of a woman proposing than social equality (particularly, the fact that women are commonly ready for marriage earlier than their partners ON TOP OF the fact that it is 'against tradition').

In other words, I was saying 'society' hasn't evolved to the point where equality is enough to make a woman proposing 'normal' and 'accepted,' even though it should be. (That's where the 'I would like to say' and 'society hasn't evolved to that point' from my first post come in.)


Most of us ladies essentially propose by telling our sig. others that we want to marry them. I told my FI that many times before he proposed. His proposal was just the answer to my less formal one

(But does he think of it that way? Of course not!

)

Eloquently said, Musey! What I wonder about, though, is just *how* that paradigm will change .... (and this is not, btw, a "how" in the doubting sense, but my belief that it will, and my curiosity as to what form that change will take ... since we're being so delightfully specific in our choice of terminology (it's the English prof. in me)) ... especially because I think you're right about the growing frequency of talks-about-the-future that amount to de facto proposals from one side or the other. Makes me wonder about the formal proposal: whether it will stay fixed in the form that's familiar to us today, eventually develop into a gender-neutral ritual, or slowly devolve into a vestigial mannerism of sorts ....

Looking at terminology, just to pick out a few point of interest: Emelina, at one point you said that you thought it was "pushy" for women to propose, yes? You were going off of the assumption that it stemmed from impatience or possibly nagging on the woman's part, as I read it, but what about the cases in which that couldn't be further from the truth? In my own situation, I was definitely the commitmentphobe of the two of us, and it took me a good deal longer than my FI to come to terms with the whole "future" thing. Heck, my inadvertent proposal stemmed from our talking about the future and his confessing that he'd been trying to accomodate my commitmentphobia for a while now! Weird, but sweet ... and, yeah, us. I think it's an awfully damaging stereotype, and one that stems back to the idea of the shrew, as in taming of: after all, what's wrong with being pushy? In men, we tend to call that quality ambition, aggressiveness, drive, and a whole slew of other positive things. Why not in women?

WHfSR, some of your points make a lot of sense ... for you. But when you generalize out to how *all other* men are going to react, you're doing a disservice to your gender. The FI feels that any guy who worries a lot about emasculation falls into the category of protesting too much: that insecurity just doesn't make any sense to him (nor, I admit, to me personally). But that doesn't mean that I'm going to say that it might not be an important issue for individual guys out there ... or to go around saying that any guy who does worry about it is obviously trying to overcompensate for some inherent lack. It might be my belief, but it'd be pretty crass to apply that to everyone around me, no?

Different strokes for different folks, is all I'm sayin' ....

 

[WorkingHardforSmallRewards]

Date: 10/4/2007 12:25:35 AM
Author: Circe

Date: 10/3/2007 11:27:44 AM

Author: musey

Date: 10/3/2007 2:57:02 AM


Author: musey



I was stating that society (for the most part) has evolved to the point that men and women are equal, but that there is more standing in the way of the social acceptability of a woman proposing than social equality (particularly, the fact that women are commonly ready for marriage earlier than their partners ON TOP OF the fact that it is 'against tradition').

In other words, I was saying 'society' hasn't evolved to the point where equality is enough to make a woman proposing 'normal' and 'accepted,' even though it should be. (That's where the 'I would like to say' and 'society hasn't evolved to that point' from my first post come in.)


WHfSR, some of your points make a lot of sense ... for you. But when you generalize out to how *all other* men are going to react, you're doing a disservice to your gender. The FI feels that any guy who worries a lot about emasculation falls into the category of protesting too much: that insecurity just doesn't make any sense to him (nor, I admit, to me personally). But that doesn't mean that I'm going to say that it might not be an important issue for individual guys out there ... or to go around saying that any guy who does worry about it is obviously trying to overcompensate for some inherent lack. It might be my belief, but it'd be pretty crass to apply that to everyone around me, no?


Different strokes for different folks, is all I'm sayin' ....

I def. agree. You may have missed it amongst all of my verbosity, but in one of my earliest post on page 1 I said:

"...that isn't to say that other options don't work out. Just as some weddings are drastically different than cultural norms, so it is also some men have drastically different feelings and perceptions on engagements. And that is all part of you two choosing each other as a couple... So please don't take offense if you are one of those couples who like alternate routes"

then i went on to point out how I myself have some taken a route some what less than normal, and one that most people I know tell me is ridiculous (and/or sweet):

"having a girlfriend and now fiance in Japan for four years is not everyones cup of tea either, we are all different, but there are still cultural traditions and beliefs worth understanding."

those being beliefs and traditions that are held up by a significant group or % of a (our) population, but CERTAINLY not all encompassing.

 

[stebbo]

Date: 10/4/2007 12:09:03 AM
Author: WorkingHardforSmallRewards

(I can remember one instance, a long time ago now, where some teacher told me that my 20 line sentences were too verbose--but, she said that it was also a mark of intelligence. Now, I don''t believe that myself, I think its more just a mark of...verbosity....lol, but I wonder if it is just my nature (when I am writing I just keep coming up with things to say and want to add--so perhaps it is a mark of my lack of organization and planning skills) or perhaps hearing her say that I developed poor habits, thinking that it was better to represent myself as intelligent at the cost of being wordy....suffice it to say though, good grades or bad, I never had a problem reaching my page limit minimums throughout school

)

Though I know enough now to fix that problem when I take the time to edit my papers or really structure them before hand

Interesting teacher you had. I know if I''m at a party meeting lots of new people, the one who leaves me an imprint of intelligence is the quiet yet confident who mostly listens yet efficiently delivers an amazing part of themselves when they speak, not excerpts from a text book, news broadcast, gossip magazine, whatever.
That could easily be the drink waiter at a engineering convention.

I find it a great shame mainstream publishers insist books and movies must be padded to a marketable length.

You get hammered on Pricescope sometimes for misleading newbies by daring to suggest something different than the same repetitive viewpoints or exaggerating a non-issue, but I haven''t heard you say the words "HCA is useful for weeding" yet and I appreciate your individuality here in case you''ve been phased by some recent attacks.

 

[WorkingHardforSmallRewards]

thanks

but now I am sure somebody is going to pull up an instance where I said that exact quote

 

[navyvet2006]

Hey There,

I am not going to shower you with questions, seems like you''ve had more than enough, please take it as their concern an just experience in life. But it is an interesting point because I am proposing to my BF as well on his birthday this January. Yes I am getting him a band and no I''m no going to wear a ring because I am the one proposing, think of it the same, just in reverse.

Check out Limoges jewelry web-site really nice things

Take Care
Good Luck!