Women who have unrealistic expectations

[Natylad]

I have thought long and hard before starting this thread. I really have no intention of insulting anybody and in general I don't like to criticize other people. But for some reason, I feel that it's one of those times, when I can't keep my mouth shut any more and I have to talk about this.
I have been a PS member for many years now. During all those years I have enjoyed reading the Rocky Talky threads. I especially enjoy reading about people, who come here with a modest budget and the wonderful people of the forum help them make the best out of it and end up with the most amazing ring their money could buy!!
But occasionally, I see threads of people, who are struggling with meeting their SO's unrealistic expectations, when in fact their budget doesn't allow it. And I read about ladies, who want a specific size of diamond, in a specific (very elaborate and expensive) type of setting, made of this and not the other metal, etc. Now don't get me wrong. I totally support the idea of discussing your wishes and ideas with your future fiancé, because the ring should please the person who is going to wear it for the rest of her life. It is a very important, expensive and sentimental purchase and having feedback from the person who will be wearing the piece is extremely important.
But whenever I read a thread of a poor guy, who is trying to accommodate all the unrealistic demands of his lady, with a budget that really doesn't allow it, I can't help but put myself in his position and feel frustrated. I wonder, are some ladies so young and immature and have no idea how much diamonds and elaborate settings cost? Are they not aware of what the real financial status of their future fiancé is and they have the illusion that he can afford what they are asking for when in fact he can't (at least not without getting in debt)? Or are they just selfish and self centered and expect to get exactly what they wish for, without worrying about the cost?
Very frustrating...

 

[Dancing Fire]

Yup, nowadays many young gals are getting too greedy, used to expect a 1ct but now most gals are expecting a 2ct Ering.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Or are they just selfish and self centered and expect to get exactly what they wish for, without worrying about the cost?

If my future wife was a Lawyer then I'd expect a 2ct Ering from her...

 

[arkieb1]

I think a lot of young women expect a decent sized diamond and a costly wedding as well. It's a pity a lot of these weddings and things cost so much because the debt they get themselves into in some cases lasts longer than the marriages. Celebrities have a lot to answer for too.

Reading the posts on RT I would add some women have unreal expectations and some guys are idiots they have no idea what a decent diamond will cost either. And don't get me started about the people that think they can outsmart the system by buying a EGL or a diamond from a friend of a friend or cousins x's friend. They all usually end in tears too....

 

[Gypsy]

Listen, I do think there are some unreasonable women out there. But I also think two other things are coming into play.

1. Women not knowing how much quality diamonds and settings cost. They see these Shane Company ads or go to a maul jeweler where 1000 bucks buys you a carat and, they think they are being completely reasonable asking for what they want, because they don't do the research. That's not their job. That's the guys job.

2. Lack of communication. Look. If you don't have the budget to get your woman what she wants, TELL HER. Many guys are too prideful or they just suck at communication to the extent that they don't tell their partner: Look, I want to make you happy, but this is the what we can afford, let's come up with something you will love, in budget together.


All the marketing of bad jewelers not to mention the 'perfect surprise engagement' BS is partially to blame.

I wanted a 2 carat Lucida. That's what I wanted. Then I actually went to Tiffany. And a ONE carat Lucida was over 12k. And I was like, HOLY CROW! And I got motivated to find out what I could get for a much more reasonable budget. So I did the research. And I realized that we could afford a carat. But it wouldn't be a Lucida or from Tiffany. And the brand wasn't that important to me at all. So... I came up with something that would work for us and our budget. It was good practice for marriage.

 

[Snowdrop13]

I agree with Gypsy, I'd like to think it is mostly ignorance that drives this. Although I also believe that if you are the one who is going to wear this ring, potentially for decades then you should get involved in the research and the buying and possibly even contribute to the budget!

Women also seem to pick out settings from Internet pictures, some of them are so elaborate, are they really robust enough for daily wear? Or do they end up in a drawer eventually because they are damaged or require too much maintenance?

 

[Rhea]

Another who agrees with Gypsy.

DH told me the budget he had in mind but he was a bit embarrassed by it. If we'd had different personalities that conversion could have turned out differently.

The men need to be realistic too. They need to set a budget, discuss that budget with their girlfriends, and be honest if the budget doesn't stretch to meet what the woman had in mind.

An acquaintance recently was wearing an upgraded ring, an old cut probably around 1.75 to 2 carats, with a very visible flaw. People need to be honest about things like that as well. If size matters to you, then speak up but be willing to compromise elsewhere.

 

[Polished]

This is one of the reasons why I'm glad men reach out for help here. There are men who understandably just want to please their girlfriend meaning they try to get her what she's indicated she wants. Once they get here they get their ideas expanded by the suggestions of others. For instance, put the budget into a good diamond for now in a simple setting thus deferring an expensive setting for later. They'd never thought of that. They take their thoughts and alternative setting suggestions away and share the thoughts with their girlfriend. It turns out she wasn't as sold on a particular setting or brand as he had thought. It becomes a process where people with experience of diamonds and jewelry, don't tell people they shouldn't have what they want, but they are able to show that exploring alternatives might might mean ending up with an even better result.

 

[missy]

I think both are to blame if they are not communicating fully about this issue. As Gypsy wrote many of the newly engaged have no idea how much diamonds cost and even if they do if they don't know their partner's budget how are they supposed to know what is in the realm of possibility?

This is a good platform with which to build the rest of their relationship going forward. That is, can they communicate well with each other and learn to be realistic in their expectations, compromise and still be happy? So while there may be a few bumps in the road to start it's not the beginning that matters rather it's how they work it out and make it right for the both of them as a couple that will determine their future successes IMO.

 

[Madam Bijoux]

Salespeople in stores also put a lot of pressure on customers. A friend of mine who wanted to trade up to a larger diamond went into a store with her husband, and the salesperson said to him "I would have turned your proposal down if you had offered me that little diamond."
My friends were disgusted and walked out of the store.

 

[Mayk]

Listen, I do think there are some unreasonable women out there. But I also think two other things are coming into play.

1. Women not knowing how much quality diamonds and settings cost. They see these Shane Company ads or go to a maul jeweler where 1000 bucks buys you a carat and, they think they are being completely reasonable asking for what they want, because they don't do the research. That's not their job. That's the guys job.

2. Lack of communication. Look. If you don't have the budget to get your woman what she wants, TELL HER. Many guys are too prideful or they just suck at communication to the extent that they don't tell their partner: Look, I want to make you happy, but this is the what we can afford, let's come up with something you will love, in budget together.


All the marketing of bad jewelers not to mention the 'perfect surprise engagement' BS is partially to blame.

I wanted a 2 carat Lucida. That's what I wanted. Then I actually went to Tiffany. And a ONE carat Lucida was over 12k. And I was like, HOLY CROW! And I got motivated to find out what I could get for a much more reasonable budget. So I did the research. And I realized that we could afford a carat. But it wouldn't be a Lucida or from Tiffany. And the brand wasn't that important to me at all. So... I came up with something that would work for us and our budget. It was good practice for marriage.

All of this!! Well said!

 

[kenny]

It's a pity a lot of these weddings and things cost so much because the debt they get themselves into in some cases lasts longer than the marriages. Celebrities have a lot to answer for too.

I disagree strongly.

The ones at fault are the people who give a crap about, and a desire to emulate, celebs.

 

[tyty333]

I gotta agree with Gypsy. I think the guy needs to talk with the girl and let her know that everything she wants isnt going to fit in
his budget. Find out what her priorities are. I feel for these guys who think they have to get everything their GF wants when it
doesn't fit. I dont have a problem when the girl expresses what she wants but the guy needs to express his opinion also...like I dont
know if I'm going to be able to do all. What's your priority?

 

[wordie89]

Good question and good answers. Discuss wants and fit it into budget. Its important first step in what's hopefully a lifelong partnership. Congrats on getting to know each other better!

 

[kmarla]

When my husband and I got engaged 32 years ago neither one of us knew a thing about diamonds. All most of us had as a general frame of reference was what our friends were wearing. Since we all had similar jobs with similar incomes, we figured that we'd end up with something similar in size. No one was going into huge debt. I suspect that things haven't changed that much today. Most people expect to end up with something that is reasonably close to what their peer group has. There's always someone who inherits a large diamond, or someone who's family has money. But for the most part there's a norm. When I got married .5 carat was very good. Today my adult daughter and friends have about 1 carat on average. This probably varies by region or culture.
People vary though. There are always the dreamers who have completely unrealistic expectations. Their budget is always smaller than their taste. This isn't just about diamonds and settings. It's the same for houses, cars, vacations etc. Then there's the flip side. People who are so frugal that they could certainly increase their budget with zero hardship but instead take huge pride in spending as little as possible. These people always live way below their means. Again, there are people who see sentimentality in an engagement ring and want to chose something in their partner's taste to last forever, and others who don't have this concept, seeing it more as an object that can be exchanged or replaced over time. These are just different perspectives.
It's sometimes easy to make generalizations, for example the assumption that if a partner wants a ring that exceeds the budget, then they are greedy or naive. That may well be true. It may also be true that the budget is unnecessarily tight and restrictive. We just don't know. We usually don't know anything about people's backgrounds, especially on a forum. It's probably fair to say that most young couples starting out can't afford to look at 2 carat diamonds. But there will be exceptions. No one should be forced into large debt for a ring. At the end, I feel that we should be cautious in making assumptions and generalizations without knowing all the facts. We usually only see one side here.

 

[HollyS]

It's a pity a lot of these weddings and things cost so much because the debt they get themselves into in some cases lasts longer than the marriages. Celebrities have a lot to answer for too.

I disagree strongly.

The ones at fault are the people who give a crap about, and a desire to emulate, celebs.

Actually, I have to agree with both viewpoints.

There is no good reason why a woman of modest means, with a fiancé of modest means should think they can have everything they want . . . whether that is a big ring, a huge wedding, or a perfectly put-together house (just watch House Hunters to see all the "Me, me, me" in house buying). Anyone old enough and adult enough to think about marriage should have better sense and a decent grasp of reality. But adulting is hard for so many.

However, the one-upping among celebrities has gotten out of hand, too. Who has the biggest ring, the most dress changes at their wedding, the most expensive wedding, blah, blah, blah. It's especially ridiculous when we know their marriages will last an average of maybe 2 years. Clearly, these people are not role models, yet quite a few see themselves as exactly that. Obviously, Kim Kardashian needs the fan adoration to actually BE Kim Kardashian, so . . .

 

[ame]

This is precisely why I strongly oppose surprise proposals, or at least surprise rings. Both parties should be 100% involved in the ring. You can surprise her with when you give it to her, but don't surprise her with the ring itself. This is a big purchase, this is a joining of finances and families. Make sure you're both on the same page from the start.

 

[lambskin]

This is precisely why I strongly oppose surprise proposals, or at least surprise rings. Both parties should be 100% involved in the ring. You can surprise her with when you give it to her, but don't surprise her with the ring itself. This is a big purchase, this is a joining of finances and families. Make sure you're both on the same page from the start.

Ditto. If they can't do a ring on the same page, wait till they look for a house or family car....

 

[azstonie]

Expectations are the building blocks of disappointment.

I married my sweetheart with no ER. Being in love was enough and we eloped because we were in our early 30s and wanted no family involvement, input or EXPECTATIONS

 

[missy]

Expectations are the building blocks of disappointment.

I married my sweetheart with no ER. Being in love was enough and we eloped because we were in our early 30s and wanted no family involvement, input or EXPECTATIONS

This is precisely why I strongly oppose surprise proposals, or at least surprise rings. Both parties should be 100% involved in the ring. You can surprise her with when you give it to her, but don't surprise her with the ring itself. This is a big purchase, this is a joining of finances and families. Make sure you're both on the same page from the start.

Ditto. If they can't do a ring on the same page, wait till they look for a house or family car....

That's sort of a leap I think. Proposing as a surprise (including the ER) is not exactly the same thing as purchasing a house together...some men have the romantic notion that is the only way to do a surprise proposal so I wouldn't be that quick to judge. My dh proposed to me as a COMPLETE surprise and we have never had an issue with anything else re purchases of a big nature.

At the time it was the best way for my dh to propose but I won't bore you with the long story. Suffice it to say he knew best in that situation. The ring was easy enough to change (and we did change it a few times so there you go even if I had input I still wouldn't have gotten the first iteration of the ring right anyway haha) but the dh would have been much more difficult to switch out. You cannot always extrapolate from the ring to every other big important purchase. The ring is a different situation and not directly comparable to other big purchases IMO. Just saying.

Having said that I too oppose surprise proposals (with the ring) for the issue of the ring purchase. If one wants a complete surprise proposal do it without the real ring. Use a gum ball ring or whatever you want instead of the actual expensive ring and then after the proposal pick the ring out together.

 

[Laila619]

I think some women still have the "I am a princess!" mentality from their childhood and never quite get over it. Grown women shouldn't be demanding and bratty. I feel bad for the nice guys who come in here and say their girlfriend is demanding this or that or "at least two carats."

 

[missy]

I think some women still have the "I am a princess!" mentality from their childhood and never quite get over it. Grown women shouldn't be demanding and bratty. I feel bad for the nice guys who come in here and say their girlfriend is demanding this or that or "at least two carats."

I agree with this Laila. The thing is, and maybe it is true for each generation IDK, it seems as if (in general) the millenials think they are entitled to everything. I watch the House Hunter shows (as but one example) and am amazed at what they think they deserve in their first home. I mean like really? HA, I was thrilled when I bought my first home in my budget that it was a 2 bedroom 2 bathroom home even though it desperately needed renovations. It seems the younger generations think they "deserve" to have it all and right away too. Again just an observation that obviously does not pertain to all even perhaps not the majority but just from my POV from what I see these days. And it does not just limited to the young women. The young men I observe are no better in this regard. They want it all and they want it all right now.

 

[lyra]

I think it should be the norm that the woman helps pay for the ring. I think that lowers expectations, or else it enables them while not putting all the pressure on the man. I also think, since it's usually a large purchase relative to disposable income, that both partners should participate in choosing the ring. I don't like surprise rings. If I'm going to wear something daily for many years, I want input. My viewpoint comes from talking to my daughters. The one who loves jewelry like I do absolutely wants to help pay for her eventual ring, and pick it out. The other doesn't care at all.

 

[jaysonsmom]

When I was in my early 20s I had a friend who only wanted to date a doctor or a lawyer, and said she would only get engaged to someone who proposed with a 3+ carat diamond. She was a classic gold digger. Fast forward 20 years, all of the gals in that particular group are married with kids in their teens, and that girl is 42, overweight and alone......

 

[kenny]

When I was in my early 20s I had a friend who only wanted to date a doctor or a lawyer, and said she would only get engaged to someone who proposed with a 3+ carat diamond. She was a classic gold digger. Fast forward 20 years, all of the gals in that particular group are married with kids in their teens, and that girl is 42, overweight and alone......

Overweight?
Really?
That belongs on a list of failures?

Dang.

 

[marymm]

When I was in my early 20s I had a friend who only wanted to date a doctor or a lawyer, and said she would only get engaged to someone who proposed with a 3+ carat diamond. She was a classic gold digger. Fast forward 20 years, all of the gals in that particular group are married with kids in their teens, and that girl is 42, overweight and alone......

While I think I understand the take-away of this post, I also am confused with how it fits into this thread... if anything, it sounds like your "friend" (who I think must have been an acquaintance if you really considered her a gold digger?) stuck to her "must have" list -- I'm not sure there is anything wrong with someone knowing the status and income they associate with doctors/lawyers (and a 3+ carat diamond ring) are what would be required in order for them to consider marriage. It may be she was entirely realistic with her own self; whether she ever found anyone who met them and/or was interested in her is an entirely separate issue.

And, not that jaysonsmom explicitly made this connection, I wouldn't say being married and/or having children necessarily equates to happiness -- it may well be the 42-year old single woman is more content with her chosen life than some/all of the married gals from that circle. And being alone doesn't mean lonely/discontented anymore than being married equates to fulfilling relationships/contentment.

[I'll leave the "overweight" descriptor alone, though it hit me wrong too.]

 

[Laila619]

When I was in my early 20s I had a friend who only wanted to date a doctor or a lawyer, and said she would only get engaged to someone who proposed with a 3+ carat diamond. She was a classic gold digger. Fast forward 20 years, all of the gals in that particular group are married with kids in their teens, and that girl is 42, overweight and alone......

Not surprised she's alone, because she either couldn't meet someone who could fulfill those demands, or the guy saw the writing on the wall and ran!

 

[telephone89]

I am usually the first to say that she shouldn't be demanding a certain gift. An engagement ring really is a gift - if your boyfriend was giving you a car for your birthday, most people wouldn't demand that he spend more. Maybe suggesting that you like a 4 door vs a 2 door, or that red is your favourite colour, sure. But saying you won't accept it because it isn't a Mercedes is not ok. And that's what is happening now a days.

I remember reading on another forum that there was a girl who wouldn't accept smaller than a carat. But her boyfriend said he couldn't afford more than 0.3, and that he would rather spend the $ on a house down payment. She was so pissy about it, and thought that he shouldn't spend his $ on a house. Like a) she gets any say in it and b) what a brat!

People honestly disgust me. IDK if it is society or what, but everything seems so transactional. He wants to spend the REST OF HIS LIFE with you, and all you want is a certain $ amt on your hand? They aren't and shouldn't even be related. A ring is pretty, and I love me some diamonds, but marriage should not be contingent on that.

I also 100% support women pitching in. Especially if she wants something bigger/blingier/etc than what her partner can afford or wants to spend at the time.

 

[PintoBean]

When I was in my early 20s I had a friend who only wanted to date a doctor or a lawyer, and said she would only get engaged to someone who proposed with a 3+ carat diamond. She was a classic gold digger. Fast forward 20 years, all of the gals in that particular group are married with kids in their teens, and that girl is 42, overweight and alone......

Overweight?
Really?
That belongs on a list of failures?

Dang.

According to my parents, it is. I think it's a combo of culture + generation that my parents were raised in. (speaking as a gal who is overweight)

 

[Ariadne_Theia]

I do have to say, I have seen a few posters in some wedding forums/advice columns where the women want a certain ering and the man doesn't want to spend over x amount even though he has just spent many times over that money on his hobbies because diamonds are useless and xboxes/4runners/cars have function. So I think sometimes we don't see the other side of the equation. If a guy comes on and says, my gf wants a 2 carat ring but my budget is 7k, maybe she didn't get 2 carats from nowhere. Maybe that's what he could afford, if he spent the same on the e ring as on his new fishing equipment and he just doesn't see the point.

Obviously, this is not true in most of the cases of budget mismatch we see, but I think we forget that this is the other side. I know I have friend who had this problem, on a much smaller scale.