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Would Love Some Help Searching for a Round Diamond

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DutchC

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 19, 2012
Messages
12
Hi Everyone,

I was wondering if you guys would be willing to lend me a hand in my search for an engagement diamond. After spending time researching diamonds at my local jewelry store and online, I think I've got a beginner's grasp on the topic... just enough to be dangerous. My budget is around $5k and I'm looking for a .9 - 1 ct round ideal cut diamond, color H+, SI1+. My local jeweler has come up with these stones:

0.9 ct, F, SI1, VG - X cut (don't have exact info from them for cut) - $5200
1.0 ct, F, SI1, VG - X cut (ditto from above) - $6700

They are both eye clean and look great as far as fire / sparkle goes (from what my untrained eye can tell). 10x loop I can see the inclusions on both. My hope is that I can do better online and stay closer to my $5k budget than the bottom one.

Based on searches I've done one PS, I get a variety of stones for a large range of prices. I've noticed that the in-house pricescope search (whiteflash, etc) yield high quality, expensive stones. Are the other dealers reliable? They seem cheaper, but perhaps I'm overlooking the difference in cut quality.

And then, what's more important the cut quality (is GIA VG acceptable, or should I aim higher?) vs HCA rating (should I opt for EX here?)

Above all, I'm looking for a stone that's at least eye-clean, white color, shows max. sparkle and brilliance. For example, one of the stones I found was this one below:

1.01 G SI1 64.3% 55% GIA Very Good VG VG F N 1.6-EX $5099 $5150 (B2C)

Any tips for searching or diamond suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks
 
The one thing you don't want to skimp on is cut quality. I think you may find yourself needing to drop to I. If you look for fluorescence in a stone, it is often a little less expensive. Brian Gavin has a line devoted to fluorescence and the slight discount associated with it. The bonus on sites like BGD and Whiteflash and Good Old Gold is most of the legwork has been done for you and you've got lots of info to make a good choice.

Other sites, you are going to have to do more work on your own, though they may be less expensive.

There isn't a whole lot out there right now in BGD and Whiteflash and some of that may be because it's right after the holidays and some of it may be because that size range doesn't get cut often from what I've been told. The cutters try to push it past a carat rather than cut in the .90 range so you don't see as many of them out there.


I'll see if this WF search comes up right:

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/search.aspx

If you want to search through James Allen, just be aware that you get 3 idealscopes and diamond reviews, so I would post candidates here first after weeding out the less desirables with the HCA tool. HCA <2 means it's worth investigation, over 2 is more sketchy. If you do this, I'd personally use the general ideal cut parameters to find some candidates (do a little education here or on GOGs website), use the HCA tool, put a couple on hold and ask here for advice on them or better possibilites. Then when that's arranged, ask for idealscopes and gemologist reviews so you don't waste your 3 chances.

Here's one that gets a 1.4 on the HCA and is in your budget and size range. VS2 means it ought to be clean to and it's an H!

http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/Round-cut/0.90-carat-H-color-VS2-clarity-Excellent-cut-sku-127542
 
Are the 2 stones your jeweler came up with graded stones? If so by who?
If the jeweler is evaluating them, they have a tendency to inflate the report and tell you what you want to hear.
Best way is to have the stones graded by GIA or AGS, then you can compare apples to apples. You will find these grading reports with PS vendors. Then you can post them on the forum and the experts will give you some advice. Best of luck.
 
Okay, here's a quick bit of help!

Choose GIA Excellent cut or AGS Ideal cut ONLY. Don't consider anything else. Some GIA EX's are better than others.

Always look at diameter. One of the stones above is too deep and may face up smaller than it should.

Stay close to these measurement ranges:

Table: 54-58

Depth: 60.0-62.3

Crown angle: 34-35

Pavilion angle: 40.6-41.0

girdle: thin, medium, slightly thick (or combo of two of those)

The higher priced diamonds are generally in-house, some may be super-ideal cut hearts and arrows (top cut quality), better trade-in policies in case you ever want to upgrade the diamond, photos and idealscope images provided, etc.

I can see that Good Old Gold and WhiteFlash have several .90 range G-H VS2-SI1 stones worth considering.
 
Thanks for the help! The stones I looked at in the store are EGL USA graded. I'm trying to get a hold of the report #s, but she mentioned to me that to keep in mind that if I were looking for GIA graded stones that they are more expensive. So, I'm starting to think I should just stick with the AGS or GIA graded stones available online ;)

As far as James Allen goes, I notices the PS search for JA and JA website is missing the HCA information for many stones. So, do I just have to look at the attached GIA report for all those of interest and enter them manually?

I appreciate all the help. I'll continue searching and post some candidates here as I go along.

Thanks.
 
The first important C is CUT CUT CUT.....you can compromise slightly with color and clarity however if it is not excellent or ideal cut there will be no fire. Be sure that the stones are CERTIFIED....
 
EGL USA graded diamonds can be two grades too high in color, compared to how they'd be graded if you'd send the same stone to GIA or even AGS. Also, the best cut stones get sent to AGS or GIA, and the ones sent to EGL usually are older cuts and/or diamonds with shallow cut and larger tables, like tables in the 60%-64% range. EGL might also be a little "soft" on clarity, too. These things are why the EGL graded diamonds appear to be less expensive: If you consider that a EGL G SI1 might actually be an I Si2 or something, then it should be priced lower.

There are lots of threads on GIA and AGS vs. EGL grading differences and issues. Essentially, cutters, jewelers, and owners all shop the grading labs and send a diamond to whichever lab is most likely to give it the most favorable-sounding rating.
 
DutchC|1358358999|3356968 said:
Thanks for the help! The stones I looked at in the store are EGL USA graded. I'm trying to get a hold of the report #s, but she mentioned to me that to keep in mind that if I were looking for GIA graded stones that they are more expensive. So, I'm starting to think I should just stick with the AGS or GIA graded stones available online ;)

As far as James Allen goes, I notices the PS search for JA and JA website is missing the HCA information for many stones. So, do I just have to look at the attached GIA report for all those of interest and enter them manually?

I appreciate all the help. I'll continue searching and post some candidates here as I go along.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

Yes, all the information that you need for the HCA is listed on the report. Under 2 is worth further investigation. Keep in mind that the HCA is not a selection tool, it's simply used to help you weed through a huge online inventory. A .08 does not mean that it's a better performer than a 2, it's all pass/fail essentially. If you happen to come across a particular stone that you like that scores over 2, post it's specs and we can help you determine if there are any red flags. It's possible for the HCA to pass a dog and fail a beauty, but it's a fantastic tool for narrowing your search.
 
DutchC|1358358999|3356968 said:
Thanks for the help! The stones I looked at in the store are EGL USA graded. I'm trying to get a hold of the report #s, but she mentioned to me that to keep in mind that if I were looking for GIA graded stones that they are more expensive. So, I'm starting to think I should just stick with the AGS or GIA graded stones available online ;)

As far as James Allen goes, I notices the PS search for JA and JA website is missing the HCA information for many stones. So, do I just have to look at the attached GIA report for all those of interest and enter them manually?

I appreciate all the help. I'll continue searching and post some candidates here as I go along.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

Yes- enter them manually from the report.

Here is one I looked up earlier with a 1.4 HCA score to start you out. Perhaps others can post their thoughts on it of you like the look:

http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/Round-cut/0.90-carat-H-color-VS2-clarity-Excellent-cut-sku-127542
 
Christina...|1358372943|3357183 said:
I would confirm that it's eye clean to your standards but this looks like a nice stone..
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2805421.htm
Click to expand...

The angles all look good but the AGS report says clarity based on clouds not shown, so I'd definitely ask if the cloud inclusions inhibit the stone performance. (I ran in to something like that with a stone. The stone had a platinum report from AGS but a gemolgist said the inclusions inhibited the performance). If they don't, could be good!
 
bastetcat|1358375466|3357225 said:
Christina...|1358372943|3357183 said:
I would confirm that it's eye clean to your standards but this looks like a nice stone..
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2805421.htm
Click to expand...

The angles all look good but the AGS report says clarity based on clouds not shown, so I'd definitely ask if the cloud inclusions inhibit the stone performance. (I ran in to something like that with a stone. The stone had a platinum report from AGS but a gemolgist said the inclusions inhibited the performance). If they don't, could be good!
Click to expand...

Good catch! I completely missed that! OP when this is written into the report it does typically mean that there is an issue. I'll take a look at some other options for you.
 
Hi Guys,

Thanks again for all the help! I spent time searching the past couple of days and came up with the following stones. I tried to stay at a color H+ and clarity VS2 or better (for piece of mind). Bastatcat, the stone you found I did like a lot, but it looks like it's gone now... at least the price is no longer visible.

I found the following one's on James Allen, all with an HCA < 2.0. I put a hold on those 3... prices are around $5000

http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/Round-cut/0.90-carat-G-color-VS2-clarity-Excellent-cut-sku-156564
http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/Round-cut/0.90-carat-G-color-VS2-clarity-sku-185390
http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/Round-cut/0.90-carat-F-color-VS2-clarity-Excellent-cut-sku-163382


And 2 on White Flash: ($5500, $5700)
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2782653.htm
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2829739.htm

Are these any good? Do you have suggestions for a better one?

I found one more that had an HCA score of exactly 2. Will that stone be automatically inferior to anything that scores below 2?

And then, if these are good ones... how do I narrow it down and where to go from here. I'm guessing IS on the JA ones?

Thanks again!
 
I like all the ones from JA and the .93 from WF. The other one from WF is too deep. You need to request the IS images for the ones from JA and that's really how you'll be able to tell which one's better out of those three. Personally, I'm not a fan of the 60/60 diamonds, I prefer smaller tables like 55 or 56. Anyways, hope they can get the IS images to you quickly!
 
I think the 2 G's from J are worth asking about, and the second one draws me more.

The .93 from Whiteflash has a mistake in the listing. For the weight and the proportions listed, I would expect a diameter of about 6.25, where it reads more like a full carat at 6.45. When you look at the actual AGS report, you'll see the correct dimensions. Other than that, I like that one better than the other because of the depth.
 
Thanks! I'll get IS images for those. Any other ones that you guys think I should consider?
 
DutchC|1358521751|3358667 said:
Thanks! I'll get IS images for those. Any other ones that you guys think I should consider?
Click to expand...

Hold the phone on that one from WF. If you are interested, I'd say call them, because the numbers listed do not match the numbers in the report. I ran the numbers on the report and came up with 2.3 HCA so I'd ask about the stone and the correct numbers for it if you like it.

The .9 size range is hard to find.

If you can do mid $5K then I know of a couple on Brian Gavins website that are right at a carat, but I color with fluorescence (helps it face up whiter).

Here's one that gets a .8 HCA EX EX EX VG, but you are definitely going to have to ask about inclusions and whether or not this is eyeclean.

http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/Round-cut/0.90-carat-G-color-SI2-clarity-Excellent-cut-sku-159824
 
Thanks again! Nice catch on the WF one. I'm waiting on the IS for the 2 G's from JA. What about the F, not as good? I'd love to go to 1 carat, but I'm worried that I'd have to give in too much on the clarity / color. $5500 is fine for the budget. If you guys see anything else interesting, let me know... hope that I'm heading in the right direction.
 
DutchC|1358628598|3359802 said:
Thanks again! Nice catch on the WF one. I'm waiting on the IS for the 2 G's from JA. What about the F, not as good? I'd love to go to 1 carat, but I'm worried that I'd have to give in too much on the clarity / color. $5500 is fine for the budget. If you guys see anything else interesting, let me know... hope that I'm heading in the right direction.
Click to expand...

As DS said in your other thread- the pic of the F just didn't look like it was good enough to explore further. It looked disorganized to me and the 32 crown bothered me (well, so did the depth and table size too...).
 
I see what you mean now. The IS image verified it. Slowly starting to understand the ideal range for the dimensions...

Thanks again!
 
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