Would someone vet this for me please?

[yennyfire]

I think I'm going to keep my Martin Flyer setting and I've been looking at stones. I think I've found one, but being that I know zip about CS's, I was hoping some of you experts could take a look for me. I know that the stone will fit, but is this a nice example of a AAA baby pink tourmaline and is the price decent at $150? If not, what would be a reasonable offer? If this is a terrible stone, could someone explain why and help me understand what to look for in an emerald cut stone? Thanks so much for your help! For reference, I've also included a photo of the setting.

 

[chrono]

I take it it is a fairly large stone since it is to fit into your existing setting? What is the carat weight and mm measurements? This will give me some idea if the pricing is fair or not.

Firstly, tourmalines are not everyday wear stones. If you are aware of that and fine with it, let's more on.

Secondly, tourmalines are not high RI stones, so it will not sparkle much. Add to the fact that it is a step cut, you are likely to get window tilts pretty easily. In fact, you can already see through the stone in several places in the picture. This is normal, even for well cut stones such as this one. If you are aware of that, let's move on.

Thirdly, there is no standard grading/definition of what is A, AA, AAA, and etc. The intepretation of this grading system is based on whatever the vendor/store chooses. In short, who knows what each grade means. For now, throw that AAA grading out the window. What exactly are you looking for in a stone? Good cut? Good colour?

Fourthly, tourmalines are well known to colour shift, especially those in the pink/red family group. Some will deepen a little while others will become orangish / brown-out/ turn muddy under indoor lighting. How is this one indoors?

 

[yennyfire]

Hi Chrono,

Thanks you so much for taking the time to explain things to me point by point. It will not be a ring I wear everyday, so I'm OK with it needing to be babied.

I have not purchased the stone, so I haven't seen it in person. I can't say if I'll be ok that it doesn't sparkle much.

I had no idea that the "A" rating was somewhat subjective...that's good to know.

I really like this color stone...is there another type of stone I should be looking at that may meet my criteria? I am also in love with green tsavorite, but it looks like I'll need between $2-3K to get one in the size I need.

 

[chrono]

What is the mm size you are looking for?

Garnets are more sparkly. Yes, green is more expensive but some of the other hues are more affordable, especially in pale shades.

 

[yennyfire]

Hi Chrono,

The stone that was in the setting was 9.42 x 8.06 x 5.57mm so I guess I need something close to that....

 

[GemFever]

What about a baby pink spinel? Perhaps others can comment on this option, such as where to find good ones. I got a very pretty and sparkly spinel of a color similar to the pic you posted from one of the thai ebay sellers (thaigemstore). I could post a pic when I get home. But you'll probably want to get it from a different (higher quality) source for such a nice setting...

 

[movie zombie]

the window would bother me. the color isn't "vibrant" but its probably priced about right.
but then i'm a garnet woman.......

 

[Upgradable]

Cut is beautiful! I would personally not go for this color in a tourmaline. I have found that, partly because of the low RI, that tourmalines tend to wash out or blend in to my skin. They don't pop! And that beautiful setting may eclipse the stone. I'd prefer to look at garnets or spinels (that are available in similar colors) which will hold their own better when worn on the finger. Just my preference.

What about morganite?

 

[T L]

Cut is beautiful! I would personally not go for this color in a tourmaline. I have found that, partly because of the low RI, that tourmalines tend to wash out or blend in to my skin. They don't pop! And that beautiful setting may eclipse the stone. I'd prefer to look at garnets or spinels (that are available in similar colors) which will hold their own better when worn on the finger. Just my preference.

What about morganite?

Also pastel stones with a low RI (aquamarine for example) tend to get dirty and hazy very easily.

 

[yennyfire]

Thanks for all of the good advice. I hope you won't mind if I keep searching and running stones by you.

 

[stargurl78]

I would think good pink spinel at that size might be pricey too. Maybe upgradeable has a good suggestion with morganite though.

I have a pink tourmaline pear and TL, is right, I have to clean it a lot to keep it looking sparkly. I am obsessive about cleaning my jewelry though so it doesn't bother me and I just didn't have the money for a nice big pink spinel. I am very happy with my tourmaline.

I think the stone you posted is quite pretty but just keep in mind the points that have been made about the RI and the window. Does the vendor have a decent return policy?

 

[movie zombie]

Thanks for all of the good advice. I hope you won't mind if I keep searching and running stones by you.

we're color stone junkies....you're making our day!

 

[yennyfire]

I'm off to search for some of the types of stones suggested. I will not purchase a stone that doesn't come with a decent return policy. If I've learned nothing else from the CS forum, it's that color is hard to capture in photos, so what I see on my monitor may bot accurately represent what I'll see IRL...

One more question...when you all say "window", does that mean what it sounds like? A window is something you can see through, therefore a well cut stone doesn't have one and you can't see through it??

Thanks MZ, I'm glad I can provide some entertainment and I'm thrilled to receive an education! The world of colored stones has always been a bit daunting because there are so many different stones and each one has somewhat different things to look for...it's overwhelming to me!!

ETA: Just found a gorgeous emerald that would fit perfectly...now I just need an extra $15k!! Ouch!

 

[LD]

I'm pretty sure your stone doesn't have a window. It has a tilt window which is acceptable and you see it more with paler gemstones.

When you evaluate a coloured gemstone it's important to evaluate from straight on downwards with the stone facing you. If you can see a large hole in the centre where colour disappears, that's a window (see example below).

A tilt window is very different and is not something to worry about. You frequently see these and unless you know tons about coloured gemstones, most people wouldn't even notice it! A tilt window is when you see a lack of colour when viewing the stone from an angle. To illustrate it, here's my pink tourmaline showing a tilt window and when you look face on, you can see it's not there.

 

[GemFever]

Sorry for this mini-threadjack, but ... where is the smiley with the dropping jaw? TL, that cut is amazing! Can't imagine setting it, but... wooooow

 

[yennyfire]

Wow, LD that is a gorgeous tourmaline! What on earth is that cut called??? It's awesome! Thanks for the examples of stones with windows. Makes complete sense.

So far, I've seen a lot of stones that are way too large (i.e. 15+ ctw), too small, too expensive or too oval (why do there seem to be so many oval cut gemstones on eBay??? I guess I finally understand why my setting, while gorgeous, is tough to sell and how remarkable it was that my cushion fit perfectly in it even though I didn't buy the stone with that setting in mind (and in fact, just stumbled on it)...

 

[SB621]

Have you thought about contacting a cutter? I think Barry Bridgestock would do an awsome EC for you if he has the rough. I'm guessing it would be $500-$700.

 

[LD]

It's cut by brothers, Rudi and Ralph Wobito and this is the "Wobito" cut. They even cut diamonds in the same way! I have a Tanzanite in the same cut set into a pendant and the brothers were just wonderful to deal with. Photo of the pendant in it's box attached (that's not my cleavage I hasten to add)!!!

Here's a link to their website: http://www.wobito.com/

 

[yennyfire]

That's an interesting idea Sarah. Of course, that would require me to make a decision about what stone I want and I have no clue.

OMG, LD! That tanzanite is flippin gorgeous! A "wobito" cut, huh. I never would have stumbled on that one on my own!

How does Zircon rate on the hardness/suitable for wear scale? Are there any other green. pale peachy/pink, pale yellow/yellow stones I could consider? Danubrite???

What do you think of this one?

 

[LD]

Thank you Yenny!

Zircon - very soft and not durable. You will only find a few jewellers who will be brave enough / want to risk setting it. Personally I have zircon rings and ........... a bracelet ............ but I'm a risk taker and thankfully am very very very light on my rings!

Let's see if we can narrow down what you want otherwise the search may be a looooooooonnnnnnggggggg one!

1. You've mentioned pale pink but then you've mentioned Tsavorite which is usually a darker colour and vibrant green. These are at opposite ends of the scale in terms of "look" - so what colours do you wear generally? Pastels? Vibrant?

2. Do you have any coloured gemstones at the moment? If so, what do you think suits you?

3. Is the treatment level of a gemstone something that you will be concerned about? If yes, do you want (a) completely natural and untreated (typically the most expensive), (b) low levels of treatment (ie low level heat) or (c) don't care, nuke it, treat it any way you want!

4. What's your budget?

5. What size (in mm) do you need?


Edit: you've answered some of my questions above - we were cross posting!

Have you looked at Chrysoberyls? You can get pale lemon ones, pale green or very vibrant ones - they sparkle like mad and are durable! Here's a minty green version (ignore the cut, this is just so you can see the colour) http://www.ajsgem.com/chrysoberyl/chrysoberyls/chrysoberyl-2.05-carats.html

 

[Pandora II]

Pale pink topaz is very pretty and very sparkly.

 

[yennyfire]

Thanks LD...ixnay (however you spell it) on the zircon.

I have one pair of blue earrings (either aquamarine or blue topaz) that my parents gave me 25 years ago, other than that, nope...no colored gems (yet!). I know that my color preferences seem all over the lot. There are so many colors I like that I struggle to narrow it down. I can say that I don't care for "minty" green. Honestly (and I can't verbalize why), I prefer the green of a tsavorite to the green of an emerald, all things being equal). If I could have one stone in every color of the rainbow and budget were no object, this would be much easier, as I'd get a tanzanite, tsavorite, iolite, kunzite, etc.

All I know for sure is that I want an emerald/octagon cut with a reasonable amount of sparkle (i.e. not a dead stone). I love the color of the first stone I posted, as well as the 2nd stone. Would it help if I posted photos of the colors/shades I like?

I have no clue about treatment. I have a feeling that I need to be as open as possible since this is looking like a needle in a haystack kind of search.

As for budget, I don't have one. I never intended to keep this setting and wanted to use the funds for other projects. I think I can safely say that I need to stay under $1k, preferably much lower, as DH will croak when I tell him that not only am I not selling the setting, but that I'm putting more $$$ into this "little" project.

Pale pink topaz, check! Thanks Pandora!

 

[yennyfire]

How about yellow sapphire? Here's one that looks nice to me.

http://www.ajsgem.com/sapphire/yellow-sapphire/yellow-sapphire-3.31-carats.html

 

[minousbijoux]

I admittedly am biased as I love that soft blush pink, but I really like the tourmaline you've chosen. The problem with it, as others mentioned, is that it is not meant for everyday wear. But assuming that every stone you'll consider has some drawback or other, can you think about which ones are the deal breakers for you? You've talked about color a bit. To get a sapphire or spinel of that size will easily cost $1,000+ (unless you find one of the ebay special spinels, which seem to be desaturated colors like lavender or pink with large quantities of grey euphemistically called "platinum" or "silver," or one of the ebay sapphires with large amount of brown). If hardness is a concern, that leaves chrysoberyl as already mentioned which would likely be a neon yellow (full disclosure: I don't often see them cut in elongated emerald or radiant cuts). You could maybe find garnets, especially those in the claret/dark red family fairly inexpensively, but you probably wouldn't see the great faceting as easily with a dark color.

I can continue to ramble on, but instead I'll repeat what others have asked: what are your dealbreakers? Color? Durability? Price?

 

[minousbijoux]

Oh and one more question to ask - what treatments are acceptable to you? That sapphire that you posted, while pretty, is highly treated and has used foreign elements as coloring agents to make the stone more attractive. If that is okay for you, you'll have far more options.

 

[LD]

Pale pink topaz is very pretty and natural (don't confuse it with the highly treated topaz) but whether you'd find one in the size you're looking for is doubtful. You could probably easily find a Kunzite in the carat weight you want or maybe a Morganite (have a quick look at Ebay because there are usually a lot on there).

With Kunzite and Morganite they're not durable (not many gemstones are considered ok to wear every day) but Kunzite and Morganite CAN (not always) fade with sunlight. Kunzite is an "evening" gem, so it really sparkles and looks its best at night. I love it and I think you may too looking at your preferences.

Treatments play an important part (for collectors) when choosing coloured gemstones because it makes the difference between acceptable/not acceptable and also is vital when determining price points. I know you're not too worried about treatments now but do you think you may be in the future?

Tanzanite, you'll probably find in your budget.
Tsavorite, probably not - but you may find a less saturated one.
Iolite - can look grey and so appears "cool" rather than the warmth of Tanzanite. I suspect you wouldn't like this IRL.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/29-67cts-Massive-Hi-End-Lustrous-Rich-Pink-Kunzite-NR-/290580052724?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43a7ebbaf4 What a whopper!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12-35-Ct-Extream-Flawless-Emerald-Cut-Pink-KUNZITE-Pakistan-/261002620189?pt=Loose_Gemstones&hash=item3cc4f7ed1d I suspect this isn't a natural gemstone but it gives you an indication of the colour you may receive - ignore the purple looking ones as they're very rarely like that IRL!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HUGE-11-76-CT-AAA-TOP-LUSTER-QUALITY-PINK-NATURAL-KUNZITE-VS-/120853094318?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c2367dfae I like this one but doubt it will be this colour - it'll be much paler I think.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HUGE-12-90-CT-AAA-TOP-LUSTER-QUALITY-PINK-NATURAL-KUNZITE-VS-/110830394110?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19ce019afe Ditto

 

[minousbijoux]

LD: that is the coolest tanzanite pendant I have ever seen. I'd want two to make into earrings and I'd wear them always

 

[LD]

How about yellow sapphire? Here's one that looks nice to me.

http://www.ajsgem.com/sapphire/yellow-sapphire/yellow-sapphire-3.31-carats.html

Ok, this is why you need to understand about treatments! Whistle stop tour on it's way!

Sapphires are priced according to treatment levels, colour etc. So from the top:-

Natural - exactly as it says on the tin. Anything over about 1ct with a great (desirable) colour you'll begin to see the decimal point shifting in the wrong direction!

Heated - more affordable but can be expensive. Heating (and this is very basic) generally is where heat only is applied to a gemstone to make it more attractive i.e. lighten a colour to make it more attractive. I can tolerate this because my reasoning is that some gemstones are heated naturally in the earth and this is man's way of applying a similar heat to do a similar job - albeit we apply a much higher heat than would happen naturally.

BE/Lattice/ Diffusion - this is where a natural sapphire is generally an exceptionally poor colour (sometimes quality also). It's bombarded with chemical elements that penetrate the stone to change it's molecular composition so that it's now a (usually) very vibrant and attractive looking stone. Is it still a natural sapphire - well yes, but it's man-made or induced! So a bit like a designer fake piece! These are much much much much cheaper on the scale. They can be very pretty (ie the one in your link) but are really of no value and not a collectible piece. Once diffused, because the colour goes right through the gem, it's stable.

Filling/Dyeing - another treatment and basically again, treated to within of its life. Some treatments are not stable. This is not something that collectors will buy/tolerate generally.

BE/Lattice diffusion / Filling/ Dyeing all affect the value of the gemstone hugely. You'll find these typically on TV shopping channels and on Ebay in abundance. Sometimes the treatments are declared, sometimes not!

This is the difference between diamond and coloured gemstone world! We're less interested in cut and focus much more on colour and treatments (generally).

Phew, that was longer than I thought it would be - apologies.

 

[yennyfire]

Thanks for your input MB! I think the first dealbreaker is price. The second is cut (I really like some of the emerald/octagon cuts and really dislike others). I'll post examples since I have a hard time putting it into words. Third is color (though it's almost a tie with #2). I love that pale blush pink too.

LD, while the kunzite's you posted are lovely, they are too pink for me. I want something subtle-ish. OK, I read your lesson 101 about treatment and I'll admit that I need to read it again a couple more times to get it to sink in. I also need to get a notebook so that I can take some notes about which colored stones are off the list (i.e. too soft) and which remain on...

I want to be a purist, but I'm realistic that my budget won't allow for it. I'll have to ponder which treatments are acceptable to me (I'll also want to know which are most widely accepted for re-sale in case I do try to sell it in the future).

I have to run and get the kiddos from school, but I'll be back after I put them to bed (or later this afternoon if I can get them to play nicely on their own!).

Thanks to all of you for all of your kindess and help today. I am learning a lot (probably just enough to be dangerous!)!!

 

[minousbijoux]

I really like the kunzites LD posted.