You''ve got to help me with this HORRIBLE dog!!!

[soocool]

Rereading these posts reminded me of one of my neighbors who is a realtor. She has a doggy door from her house into the garage so that her 3 dachsunds (Eenie, Meenie, MiniMo- I kid you not! This is how she picked them from the litter of puppies) can get to their own litter box She said when she lived in the city and had a cat, her new puppy would go in the litter box as well, mimicking the cat. I thought that was cute and would never have believed it if I did not see it myself.

 

[AmberGretchen]

Date: 2/3/2009 11:15:11 AM
Author: luvthemstrawberries

Date: 2/3/2009 11:08:49 AM

Author: AmberGretchen

I really agree with a lot of the suggestions you are getting here - positive reinforcements for good behavior like pottying outside, not using the crate as punishment, trying to tire the dog out mentally and physically as much as possible.


However, as someone who trains dogs myself, I can''t recommend strongly enough AGAINST Cesar Milan - many of his techniques are outdated and can be dangerous to you and/or the dog, especially if applied by a less experienced dog trainer. MUCH better, check out any of the following trainers, who use safer and more effective methods based on current understanding of animal behavior, not stuff that is at least two decades old: Ian Dunbar, Jean Donaldson, or if you want someone with a TV show, Victoria Stillwell is miles better than the Dog Whisperer - her techniques will be so much more effective and easy for you as an owner to implement.

Not to threadjack, b/c maybe this will help towards the post. AmberGretchen, just out of curiosity, what sort of techniques does Cesar Milan use that are outdated? I''m honestly just wondering. I love any extra knowledge I can get, so I promise I won''t argue in any way!

I''m really just curious what sort of things he does that are different or older than what some other people use. Or what things he teaches that are hard for owners to implement (or maybe a better question would be what techniques the others teach that are easier to implement). Anything I can learn about doggies makes me happy!

I''d work with dogs every day if I could.

Well, I don''t work with dogs *quite* every day, but several times a week. I think its great that you are so eager to learn, and so open to other ideas. I really commend you for that.

Kaleigh answered part of the question really well - a lot of the reason Cesar''s methods are not sound has to do with the potential for them to backfire, but its also about the fact that they simply aren''t effective because they are based on a faulty understanding of dog behavior and learning.

Basically, dogs learn by forming associations with certain things. So most dogs get really excited when they see a leash, because they''ve learned to associate it with walks, which are fun for the dog. When you create a negative association for your dog, the risk is you can''t precisely control what you are punishing. So to take the example of the "leash pop" (jerking on the leash when you are walking and your dog does something you don''t like) - you might be effectively punishing the behavior you intend to punish, but you could also (more likely) be creating a negative association with all kinds of things - the leash, yourself, the other dog your dog sees just before that, a loud noise, etc...you get the idea. As you can imagine, this is highly risky, and can create all kinds of stress and neuroses in your dog.

The other issue is a misunderstanding of dog dominance theory and practice in the wild. I don''t have as complete an understand of this as I would like, but basically, as I understand it, using physicality (such as "alpha rolls") to demonstrate dominance is misguided because its not actually what dogs (or wolves) do in the wild 95% of the time, and can lead to aggressive responses.

Anyway, I''m sure I can find some good websites with information on this, although the ones I linked above for Jean Donaldson and Ian Dunbar would be great places to start.

 

[elrohwen]

AmberGretchen, that was me, not Kaleigh, that I think you're referring to

 

[Kelli]

Hi guys! Just checking back in. I talked to the vet today about the tests we got done on her and he said there are crystals in her urine which could mean a lot of things, but he did say that if she''s holding it in her crate that her problems are probably behavioral, not because of the crystals. I have another appointment on Friday to discuss what to do on that matter. Right now she is laying in her open crate, which she does a lot lately. She does seem to like it as long as you don''t shut the door! My fiance and I decided that we''re going to get another crate of the same size so she has one in the living room AND one in our bedroom so she doesn''t have to be alone all night. (The other two dogs sleep in our bedroom and stay out in the living room during the day). I figured we''d get her the same size crate and put the same bedding in it so hopefully she still feels at home. It''s kind of a larger crate and is a complete pain to transfer to the bedroom every night, so that''s why we''re thinking two separate ones. Does that sound ok to you guys? I tried keeping her out in the living room last night and you could hear her from every room in the house. A few months back when we tried to crate her in the room, she did calm down sooner than she did last night. I think she really does just have separation issues so keeping her in our room seems better to me.

 

[AmberGretchen]

Date: 2/3/2009 9:03:45 PM
Author: elrohwen
AmberGretchen, that was me, not Kaleigh, that I think you''re referring to

Sorry! My bad

 

[Dreamer_D]

Kelli you really need to get Ian Dunbar''s book about crate training to house train, the one I mentioned earlier. Works a charm. Basically, the dog is in the crate, taken out to potty. If the dog potties outside, she get freedom for a few hours before going back in the crate until it is potty time again. If no potty outside when you take her out, then right back in the crate for 30 minutes to an hour, then outside to try again. Repeat as required until successful potty outside, at which time she gets sweet blessed freedom! Feed and water throughout. The crate isn''t punishment, but a tool to allow you to keep the dog confined to an area where she will not potty. She will figure it out REALLY fast that she gets freedom when she potties outside. Anyways, buy the book! Is works miracles and the method will change your life with your dog!

 

[movie zombie]

i realize cats are different than dogs, but when my lahonda girl kitty has crystals in her urine, we have pee problems in the house.......perhaps its harder on cats or her crystals are larger.

mz

 

[Kelli]

Thanks dreamer! I''ll look for it next time I''m out. I actually have a Barnes and Noble gift card too, so that''s convenient

Sorry to hear about your kitty''s crystals movie zombie. Is she on medication for them? I might have to put my dog on something to make her pee EVEN MORE!!

Won''t that be fun.

 

[lyra]

Date: 2/3/2009 10:32:37 PM
Author: Kelli
Hi guys! Just checking back in. I talked to the vet today about the tests we got done on her and he said there are crystals in her urine which could mean a lot of things, but he did say that if she''s holding it in her crate that her problems are probably behavioral, not because of the crystals. I have another appointment on Friday to discuss what to do on that matter. Right now she is laying in her open crate, which she does a lot lately. She does seem to like it as long as you don''t shut the door! My fiance and I decided that we''re going to get another crate of the same size so she has one in the living room AND one in our bedroom so she doesn''t have to be alone all night. (The other two dogs sleep in our bedroom and stay out in the living room during the day). I figured we''d get her the same size crate and put the same bedding in it so hopefully she still feels at home. It''s kind of a larger crate and is a complete pain to transfer to the bedroom every night, so that''s why we''re thinking two separate ones. Does that sound ok to you guys? I tried keeping her out in the living room last night and you could hear her from every room in the house. A few months back when we tried to crate her in the room, she did calm down sooner than she did last night. I think she really does just have separation issues so keeping her in our room seems better to me.

Sounds like a great idea. We have 2 crates for Lola too, for now. One in the family room where the dogs live during the day, that we put her in when we are going out or if we can''t supervise for whatever reason. The other is in our bedroom, which is where she sleeps at night. I think it''s great that your girl (what''s her name?) is willingly going in her crate during the day. That''s going to make it much easier for you! I totally agree with finding similar bedding. You could put the "old" bedding in the new crate to start with, so she''s familiar with her own smell. That might help too.

Sorry to hear about the crystals, hope you can get that resolved soon. It''s wonderful that you''re being so patient and are willing to explore options. Give her lots of love!

 

[movie zombie]

lahonda gets subcutaneous fluids every other day which i administer here at home....and yes she has other meds. good luck with your puppy/dog.

mz

 

[NewEnglandLady]

Are the crystals struvite crystals?

Our dog also gets crystals when his Ph levels are off--sorry to hear you''re going through that.

Did the vet prescribe a specific food (usually Hills or Royal Canin)? We control it by giving our dog Vitamin C every day.

I think a crate in the main living area and the bedroom is a good idea--we''re buying a second crate ourselves this weekend so we''ll have the exact same arrangement.

 

[trillionaire]

You can probably do a smaller crate in your room, if its only to sleep in. Sometimes it''s more cozy for them.

 

[Kelli]

Thanks again everyone. We actually did try a smaller crate for the bedroom, since the living room one is quite large for her. She hates it though and won''t go in at all, so we''re going to get the bigger one this weekend. I don''t know much about her crystals yet, but I''ll find out more on Friday when I take her back to the vet. She actually had a great day today (KNOCK ON WOOD, IT''S NOT OVER YET!!) with no accidents, and she wee weed and woo wooed outside tonight!

Her name is a little complicated. My fiance is completely convinced she is partly Jack Russell, and she has those big gross droopy nipple things from previously having puppies. While we were driving around looking for her owners we called her "mama dog." Then we decided to call her "Jack Mama" which is an old school Beavis and Butthead joke from an episode we both loved. We decided we couldn''t put that on her name tag so we "officially" named her Jackie, but we never call her that. The vet knows her as Jack, but we call her Jack-Jack, Jackers, Jack in the box, and MANY MANY times, Jack@$$! She really has been trouble, but we love her nonetheless. She doesn''t listen much and is EXTREMELY hard to potty train (duh), but she is sweet and affectionate and cute, and provides our other younger dog with a great playmate. It doesn''t seem like she was treated very well before, because she''s really skittish and shakes violently when scared, but she did warm up to us right away. Anyway, I know I''ve posted these pictures of her before, but I don''t have any new ones so here she is.

 

[Kelli]

On my old bare mattress

 

[Kelli]

And again

 

[Kelli]

One of my favorite pics. Her and her best friend sleeping with my fiance. He seems to have this crazy incredible bond with any dog he meets. They can never get enough of him.

 

[Gypsy]

Okay that was just too cute. How does the larger dog get cuddled like that?

You fiance is a hottie BTW

.

 

[luvthemstrawberries]

Ahhh Kelly haha now I see why it''s so hard to not give in to her. She''s so cute.

I love all the pictures. It''s so great you guys are giving her a home and not leaving her out to fend for herself. Thank you so much for doing that.

My FI has a thing with dogs too! I think it''s just his personality and the good vibes he always gives off, but ALL dogs (and babies) LOVE him! Haha babies will stare at him in restaurants and the grocery store, and dogs whose owners say they bark at everyone NEVER bark at him - they walk right up to him and he can crouch right down and pet them. Hehe makes me smile.

 

[Kelli]

Date: 2/5/2009 5:32:03 AM
Author: Gypsy
Okay that was just too cute. How does the larger dog get cuddled like that?


You fiance is a hottie BTW

.

LOL thanks gypsy!!

The larger one will crawl up under the covers and nudge her way in until he''s holding her like a teddy bear. He''s a really cuddly sleeper anyhow, and they''ll both go to sleep like that and wake up eight hours later in the same postiton. I''ve even seen him put his big old leg up on her is his sleep and I don''t know how she doesn''t feel crushed. His legs are HEAVY! But she was another dog that was found as a puppy, the vet said she was about seven weeks old when we got her. One of my dance students found her in their yard and knew I''d take her. She was so tiny she tried to suckle at our finger tips My fiance would hold a bone in his hand at night and she would lay on his pillow chewing it until she feel asleep. I''m serious when I say he babies our dogs!

 

[Kelli]

Date: 2/5/2009 8:24:02 AM
Author: luvthemstrawberries
Ahhh Kelly haha now I see why it''s so hard to not give in to her. She''s so cute.

I love all the pictures. It''s so great you guys are giving her a home and not leaving her out to fend for herself. Thank you so much for doing that.


My FI has a thing with dogs too! I think it''s just his personality and the good vibes he always gives off, but ALL dogs (and babies) LOVE him! Haha babies will stare at him in restaurants and the grocery store, and dogs whose owners say they bark at everyone NEVER bark at him - they walk right up to him and he can crouch right down and pet them. Hehe makes me smile.

That''s so weird!! He is the same way with babies too! And we''ve experienced that same thing before. Babies in restaurants will just stare and smile, this one family had the most adorable little toddler girl and I swear she was flirting with him! She would stare with these big eyes and the cutest little smile and when he''d smile back she''d giggle really loud and turn her head away real fast. Some of our friends with kids will just hand their babies over to him, because somehow they''re always happy when he''s holding them, and lots of times they''ll just fall asleep. I''ve heard that kids and dogs are really good judges of character. It seems that we''re pretty lucky to have our guys.

 

[Kelli]

OK UPDATE! This dog is still wreaking havoc on my life! I haven't gotten Ian Dunbar's book yet. I plan on getting it, but I won't have time for shopping until Friday. Actually, I've been to Petco and didn't think to look for it there. Would they have it there?

ANYWAY, I finally bought another crate and have been putting my dog in there at night. She's got everything she could need in there, a Kong toy chock full of peanut butter, a hamster cage water bottle that she does actually drink out of a little, two blankets that I put in the dryer for a few minutes before bed if it's cold, a dog bed and a regular pillow. And she's still got plenty of room. She does fine at night but when my fiance leaves at 6 or so in the morning, he lets her outside with the other dogs and then puts her back in her crate. This morning when he put her back in, she screamed for OVER AN HOUR!!

I know I'm not supposed to let her out when she whines, so I went to the guest bedroom because I just COULD NOT bear the noise anymore. (I work later at night so I sleep in later in the mornings.) I could still hear her from accross the house and after an hour, I just gave up and got up. I took her outside, of course, she wouldn't go. Yesterday, she did go back in her crate, but apparently wasn't happy about it because when I let her out later she sat there and peed on my bed while I was in the room. I had JUST brought her in from outside not even five minutes prior to that. I feel absolutely hopeless about this dog.

 

[AmberGretchen]

Kelli - I''m so sorry you are still having difficulty, it sounds like a tough situation for sure.

I''d really strongly encourage getting Ian Dunbar''s book (or something by Patricia McConnell or Jean Donaldson), and in the meantime, check out their websites - they will have some training tips on there that maybe you can try.

One thing that immediately strikes me about the crate and your doggie is it might be too big? I''ve always heard the crate should be just large enough for them to stand up and turn around in but no more, to discourage soiling and make them feel more secure.

Another thing you may need to try with this dog is a technique called "satellite" training - whenever the doggie is in the house and out of her crate, her leash is clipped to someone''s belt. Literally, all the time. That way, if she starts to potty, you can catch her in the act, interrupt, and take her outside for immediate correction.

 

[Kelli]

Thanks AmberGretchen. I am planning on getting that book tomorrow. As far as the crate goes, we actually have one that is a perfect size for her, but she absolutely can''t stand it. She will NEVER sit quietly in it. The bigger ones she seems to like, as long as she isn''t locked in. She''ll go in there and lay down whenever she wants to be alone, and she''s never gone to the bathroom in it either. The little one makes her freak out even worse, so we crammed a bunch of bedding in the big one and she seems to enjoy it for the most part, only on her own terms though.