30yearsofdiamonds what is your deal with Fluorescence???

[ringbling17]

Now no one here helping people and giving their advice is learning newbies this.

Is this Yoda from Star Wars?


Sorry. I thought this thread needed an ice breaker!

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Not taking sides here (is that too pc?) but I would like to say that while there are quite a few knowledgeable trades people that participate on this forum with a great deal to offer, not many have the background that 30yrs apparently has in laboratory routines. I know that I am regularly learning new nuances of grading in the course of interacting with the labs, so it is very clear to me that the knowledge 30yrs brings to the forum is very valuable.

I also would like to say that the prosumers here are amazing. Some have different styles and approaches. Some blunt and to the point, some very tactful and polite. But all trying to be helpful, and to a very large extent they are successful in creating a much more educated consumer. A variety of styles is good because there are a variety of personality types coming to the forum for info and advice. Is there a certain "ditto factor"? Probably. Many of the issues have been discussed before and people have made up their own minds about certain things. Rather than re-hash it, they simply amplify a viewpoint stated by someone else. This has value as well.

So, rough and tumble is fine for many. But some people get turned off by too much drama. It's important to understand that when you post in a public forum you are talking to a lot more than the people actively participating in the thread. It is therefore a good practice to think about how your words will be perceived by all the people reading them. While a little controversy and colorful expression of passionately held views can be healthy for the discussion, taking a little extra time to make a few edits is not a bad thing either.

 

[WinkHPD]

Not taking sides here (is that too pc?) but I would like to say that while there are quite a few knowledgeable trades people that participate on this forum with a great deal to offer, not many have the background that 30yrs apparently has in laboratory routines. I know that I am regularly learning new nuances of grading in the course of interacting with the labs, so it is very clear to me that the knowledge 30yrs brings to the forum is very valuable.

I also would like to say that the prosumers here are amazing. Some have different styles and approaches. Some blunt and to the point, some very tactful and polite. But all trying to be helpful, and to a very large extent they are successful in creating a much more educated consumer. A variety of styles is good because there are a variety of personality types coming to the forum for info and advice. Is there a certain "ditto factor"? Probably. Many of the issues have been discussed before and people have made up their own minds about certain things. Rather than re-hash it, they simply amplify a viewpoint stated by someone else. This has value as well.

So, rough and tumble is fine for many. But some people get turned off by too much drama. It's important to understand that when you post in a public forum you are talking to a lot more than the people actively participating in the thread. It is therefore a good practice to think about how your words will be perceived by all the people reading them. While a little controversy and colorful expression of passionately held views can be healthy for the discussion, taking a little extra time to make a few edits is not a bad thing either.

What many tend to either not realize or forget is that there are three or four hundred thousand unique visitors to this site each month. What we may have explained a hundred times in the past is brand new to many of them and we owe them the courtesy of a good explanation. I believe it is Gypsy who has a detailed explanation of some basic facts that she can cut and paste in answer to some questions. (Working from memory here, please excuse me if I have named the wrong person.)

In many ways I think that is a brilliant choice. I tend to like writing things out each time to exactly fit the situation, but there are times when I wish I too had a few chapters of cut and pastes ready.

I certainly agree that the people here are VERY helpful and frankly, I miss the days when we had more animated disagreements about the importance of minute cutting details and welcome this discussion of fluorescence as a welcome retreat into the past where we discuss differing points of view.

Wink

 

[hathalove]

So, why are ACA's and AGS000 H&A often recommended?
I came here in a D/FL mindset and ended up comfortable & happy with G/VS1, but I thought a super ideal cut was what made top light performance, and even inside that designation there are even tighter parameters for maximum performance . My world is toppling

Hey... don't go start questioning the ACA's now! You are freaking me out. HA!

 

[hathalove]

Now no one here helping people and giving their advice is learning newbies this.

Is this Yoda from Star Wars?


Sorry. I thought this thread needed an ice breaker!

This made me laugh so hard!!!! Oh My Goodness...

**edited because I am reminded in the previous posts that several THOUSANDS come to look at ps and I don't want anyone that knows my writing style to know I spend so much time on this site lol

 

[MarionC]

So, why are ACA's and AGS000 H&A often recommended?
I came here in a D/FL mindset and ended up comfortable & happy with G/VS1, but I thought a super ideal cut was what made top light performance, and even inside that designation there are even tighter parameters for maximum performance . My world is toppling

Hey... don't go start questioning the ACA's now! You are freaking me out. HA!

sorry
No fear, still an OCD cut nerd here!

 

[Gypsy]

What many tend to either not realize or forget is that there are three or four hundred thousand unique visitors to this site each month. What we may have explained a hundred times in the past is brand new to many of them and we owe them the courtesy of a good explanation. I believe it is Gypsy who has a detailed explanation of some basic facts that she can cut and paste in answer to some questions. (Working from memory here, please excuse me if I have named the wrong person.)

In many ways I think that is a brilliant choice. I tend to like writing things out each time to exactly fit the situation, but there are times when I wish I too had a few chapters of cut and pastes ready.

I certainly agree that the people here are VERY helpful and frankly, I miss the days when we had more animated disagreements about the importance of minute cutting details and welcome this discussion of fluorescence as a welcome retreat into the past where we discuss differing points of view.

Wink

Thank you Wink for this post. It is me, yes, that cuts and pastes "blurbs" from previous posts, there are a ton of posters looking for pretty much the same thing: the best balance of cut, clarity, color, and budget on round brilliants. In all my years here I can count the people looking for "museum quality stones" on my fingers and once we explain the problem with museum quality (shouldn't be worn often) many of those have decided against them to boot! So cutting and pasting saves time, sanity, and ensures that my words are consistent (cause my memory sucks and if I don't do this I often find I have to do multiple posts to remember everything).

I'd be happy to cut and paste the 'blurbs' for your guys here in this thread and you all can edit/advise on how to optimize and revise those words so that they can be the most effective/accurate needed. I have no issue with that.

Different strokes for different folks. I don't do this to make the Emily Posts of the world happy (I don't do anything for that reason). We have moderators. And their definition of "mean" (what are we in kindergarten?) or "inappropriate" is thankfully more sane than that of the self appointed net nannies on these boards. And since this post, and the large majority of my others, are still standing I suspect that they are fine with how I go about what I do. Which is helping people make informed decisions in their jewelry purchases. And ultimately, that's what matters.

 

[Gypsy]

Argh. Going to respect the moderators and not respond to the crazy poster who was banned years ago by the moderators, and yet still stalks these boards. Goodness only knows why.

 

[yssie]

Already reported, thank goodness!

 

[Laila619]

Gypsy, my original POINT was that instead of calling him out, you could glean a lot from 30yearsofdiamonds, and consider other people's valuable advice and opinions besides your own. But I see that won't be the case obviously.

Very strong blue fluor is not for everyone. It is sometimes considered undesirable. It will lower the value of a stone. And it can have a negative effect on the stone's appearance.

 

[Gypsy]

Gypsy, my original POINT was that instead of calling him out, you could glean a lot from 30yearsofdiamonds, and consider other people's valuable advice and opinions besides your own. But I see that won't be the case obviously.

Laila, I was TRYING to ignore you. But my point, since you called me out again is: we disagree fundamentally. Do you know why? I asked 30years to explain his point of view and criticized his tone and word choice in putting down fluorescence they way he did in repeated posts (and he was breaking forum rules while doing so to boot). You had a problem with that (when I was NOT breaking forum rules) and with MY tone of voice and word choice. So it's okay if YOU criticize ME based on their tone and word choice, but I can't do the same of 30 years? And to top it off you complain because I mention post count, saying that in your opinion that is irrelevant. But then it's okay for YOU to place vendors on a pedestal and tell me that in YOUR opinion vendor's posts are more valuable than those of the prosumers on the boards? Well I disagree with that. SO you are criticizing me for something YOU ARE DOING YOURSELF. Do you even see that you are the pot calling the kettle black?

I don't know if you noticed this but try my best to ignore you 99% of the time. So how about you do us both a favor and do the same for me? PERMANENTLY. You are not, and to my knowledge, will never BE, one of the moderators. So your opinion? It holds no more weight than mine.

And also regarding this:

Very strong blue fluor is not for everyone. It is sometimes considered undesirable. It will lower the value of a stone. And it can have a negative effect on the stone's appearance.

I never disagreed with this. In fact I have talked posters OUT of buying strong blue as gifts to others for a reason. But you don't get that, because you didn't bother to read what MY POINT was, too concerned about your own.

My point? All those words I underlined in your post? Those were what I did not see in 30years' posts. He didn't use words like "not for everyone" or "sometimes considered" or "can have" instead he stated unequivocally that ALL strong blue is an auto reject. And all I wanted, as you can see from my responses to Karl and David's posts is that when 30years posts he considers that he is stating an opinion, not a fact. And that strong blue MAY be a rejection factor. But that it is not IN FACT, an automatic rejection factor for EVERYONE as he was stating (in threads that per forum rules he shouldn't have been responding to in the first place), though it may indeed be for him.

But god forbid you take the time to understand my point, and maybe consider that "I" may have a have a valid point. Because all YOU care about is your own point. No, you just want to declare me a "big meanie" (does that come with a foot stomp when you say it?) and criticize me from your glass house.

 

[Gem Queen]

30 years, I love you! You are awesome. I agree with everything you have said. I love this website, but if you give and opinion, professional or otherwise, you MUST be prepared for backlash. I pick and choose my battles. When your opinion differs from the clique's opinion, they pretty much gang up on you. It's not funny (ha ha), it funny (peculiar) because I thought we were here for one reason..... Our mutual love for beautiful Jewelry and stones. You stand your ground..... I know you will. I'm sure I'll be black balled for my opinion. Oh, well!
I'm going to push "send" now. Pray for my soul. Lol

 

[MarionC]

When I first read OP's posts that started this bruhaha I felt disturbed by the tone.
OP did not tactfully advise...the way "experts" on this forum steer the newbies to a higher knowledge. The posts were more of an assault.
Whether you agree or disagree with the content of the OP's initial posts, I felt they lacked a professional tone.

edit: I meant 30, not Gypsy!

 

[teobdl]

My take as a man-on-the-street fan and infrequent poster: referencing post count was ad hominem and wholly irrelevant given the available information, even before he briefly put his name in his signature. He's been a member since 2009, and despite the low post count, a quick look at his posts dating back to that period showed fruitful contributions--some comprehensive, others brief, but always helpful and welcomed by the likes of Garry, Paul, Oldminer, Rhino, etc, as well as one-and-done PSers. Post count <> knowledge about diamonds. Though it can be an indicator, clearly more information is needed.

My feeling is that yes, posts should be made with the understanding that they're here for perpetuity. This has two consequences: 1) be careful with one's words and education advice 2) one need not re-write the book of cut, HCA, and 4C's. I think Gypsy does these very well. That said, as a regular reader and sometime contributor, I have zero problem with the brevity of 30years' posts. And brevity should not be confused with being rudely terse. JulieN is brief. Garry is brief. 30years was also brief. When further clarification is warranted, ask a question nicely.

 

[30yearsofdiamonds]

Thank you Teobdl. Since reading the recent posts, I was slightly hesitant to share my own grading experiences on the laser drill hole thread, for future readers that might see stones with LDH's.

 

[Ella]

Ladies, enough. If we see one more veiled rude post towards one another you will be on the other side of a time out. Keep the tone polite even if you disagree.

PS was founded on disagreements as I am told, and everyone enjoys the discussions and deep conversations. But not if attacks follow. Keep it civil and if you cannot, keep out of it.

 

[Andelain]

Thank you Teobdl. Since reading the recent posts, I was slightly hesitant to share my own grading experiences on the laser drill hole thread, for future readers that might see stones with LDH's.

If you're referring to my thread, go right ahead. My stone is bought and paid for, but we can all learn for future purchases.

 

[SB621]

ETA: I went to report the post, and see that someone had beat me to it.

I got you A! I just hit report vs. responding. It makes me sad that this is the tone PS has taken recently. You can no longer disagree with a poster without them making it personal. I'm all for disagreeing or argueing points but why attack someone's character or try to lower their self worth publically??? Sorry I'm a broken record lately on this topic as it has been more apparent in the last 2-3 weeks across a few boards on PS.

 

[MarionC]

ETA: I went to report the post, and see that someone had beat me to it.

I got you A! I just hit report vs. responding. It makes me sad that this is the tone PS has taken recently. You can no longer disagree with a poster without them making it personal. I'm all for disagreeing or argueing points but why attack someone's character or try to lower their self worth publically??? Sorry I'm a broken record lately on this topic as it has been more apparent in the last 2-3 weeks across a few boards on PS.

chalk it up to Spring Fever Maybe everyone needs to buy a new Spring Diamond & meet at Wink's campfire sing-a-long!

 

[aljdewey]

So, let's pass around a little pie and perhaps steer this thread back on topic.

We all have our preferences, and they are based on what's important to each of us individually. Because of that, there is no right or wrong answer as to the order of priority for the four Cs; some may prioritize cut above all else, and others may prioritize color, clarity or size.

I think the key thing PS has to offer is insight on how each of those elements affect the market value and possibly the appearance of the diamond and how it might impact the individual based on their preferences. That's where the real value is - not to tell people what they should think is 'right', but how to arm them with enough information to confidently choose what's right for each of them.

I agree with Karl's (?) earlier point in the thread that I'd rather see people (and trade members in particular) express those preferences as exactly that - preferences and not facts, and even more valued if it includes insights to why. I can respect that Dan doesn't prefer very strong blues as he doesn't care for the effect, just as I respected that my good friend (long absent here) Fire & Ice used to actually prefer stones with fluorescence. There's room for all preferences.

 

[missymoo]

The personal attack I just saw at 1am is completely out of line. I'm glad it's been reported.

 

[aljdewey]

For those of you lamenting about how threads always turn personal and wondering why, please consider your own role in it - it continues to happen in part because of the attention you give it. At the risk of oversimplifying - stop feeding the bear, right?

In another effort to return to topic.......

I do own a smallish (.56) very strong blue diamond; it was one of the two stones I used for studs. The other wasn't fluor at all. Most of the time, I couldn't appreciate much difference between them, and I didn't feel the VSB stone was milky, cloudy, or diminished the appearance of the stone. The potential does exist, so it's good to be mindful that VSB may have some effect on a stone's appearance and look for that when you visually inspect the stone.

 

[Rockdiamond]

While we are on the topic of Fluorescence.....I have a question for 30 years, and other professionals about their feelings on this subject.
Do you feel that the grading of Fluorescence is reasonably consistent at GIA?.
My experience is that some diamonds graded Faint Fluorescence exhibit a fair amount, and others graded Medium may be quite faint.
Basically, it seems that grading for clarity, or color is far more linear, and consistent.
If you think about it, assessing the degree of fluorescence in a diamond is far more subjective than color and clarity on some ways.
What do y'all find......

 

[30yearsofdiamonds]

Heading to Basel for the watch and jewelry show. Good luck to all that are searching for the right diamond. BTW, blue UVF for studs is perfectly fine by me, as well as a spread stone. Most people are not going to scrutinize studs the way some might ER's.

 

[30yearsofdiamonds]

During my years at GIA we had master sets of UVF stones. Now they use a machine that they "invented" for their own use. It was calibrated to their original masters. The graders put the stone in the machine and get a number and that correlates to a level of UVF, with no interpretation. Mistakes can be made if the stone is not placed properly or the UVF is uneven. Sometimes the UVF is around the girdle and sometimes it could be zoned. I have seen stones that had none on the GIA and were clearly medium blue. That occurs when graders are not paying attention.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

During my years at GIA we had master sets of UVF stones. Now they use a machine that they "invented" for their own use. It was calibrated to their original masters. The graders put the stone in the machine and get a number and that correlates to a level of UVF, with no interpretation. Mistakes can be made if the stone is not placed properly or the UVF is uneven. Sometimes the UVF is around the girdle and sometimes it could be zoned. I have seen stones that had none on the GIA and were clearly medium blue. That occurs when graders are not paying attention.

That is very interesting. It is a shame that the technology cannot be used in a manner to be more accurate rather than less!

Have a wonderful trip!