5.01radiant center stone, should I upgrade?

[radiantbeauty]

Hi Everyone!

I recently became a member and I am very excited to have found this site! I have been lurking on here for awhile and I must say I am so excited to see everyone’s beautiful collections!

I wanted to run this pass the PS community and see if you think I should upgrade my existing 5.01 H/SI2 radiant stone in my e-ring.
I am a Newbie so I hope I post all the pictures and info correctly. If I did not for some reason, let me know and I will be sure to correct it pronto!

First, a little diamond info for you:

Center Stone (egl) - Radiant
5.01 ct (9.46 x 9.17 x 6.32)
H
SI2


Middle Row - 11 Princess Cut Stones
G/H
VS2/SI


Front, Sides, and Back Rows - Over 100 Round cut stones (even in the prongs!
G/H
VS2/SI


What I looooove about my e- ring:
• The setting – Custom made to similar settings I like. My fav! My FI did an outstanding job understanding what I really wanted in my ring set.
• The floating diamond – I loooove how high it sits. This was actually his favorite part of the ring; he thinks it looks great. I know for some, the high setting of the stone may present a security concern, but I absolutely love it! I am very careful where and how I wear it.
• It sparkles like craaaaazy!
• The total carat weight – Almost 9.5 carats (and this does not include my two bands
• The center stone carat weight – I love being able to say I have a 5 carat!
• The crushed ice effect – loooove it! It really does give off insane amounts of sparkle…O..M…G! It’s like looking into an endless bucket of sparkle
• Little to no metal showing – I really wanted a ring that would show more sparkle than metal
• Love the width of the ring – I’m want to show as little ring finger as possible

I get compliments ALL THE TIME on my ring. I literally have crowds of people gasping at how lovely they think the ring is. I have even been asked if I am sort of celebrity or married to a pro athlete. I have even been stopped by a few gentlemen asking to see the ring and asking about the details of the ring too. The local jewelers are amazed and tell me they’ve never seen a 5 carat stone in person and that it is a very pretty setting. I asked my family if they thought I should trade it in and they told me “absolutely not, it’s gorgeous and you should keep it!” My fiancé loves the ring and constantly says “the ring is on fire!”

So here is where I need your help PSers. My center stone has a few inclusions that can be visible to the naked eye (a feather line, a white cloud and a black carbon spec) in certain lighting and angles. It can also show hints of yellow in certain lighting. I am wondering if you think if it would be worth it to upgrade the diamond to a different grade and clarity. If I do this, it may mean I would have to go down in carat weight because my FI and I have other things we need to focus monies to in order to prepare for our lives together. He is willing, however, to spend up to $5,000 for an upgrade. I have thought about a different diamond shape such as a round that has big dimensions but would likely mean getting a smaller carat size. I am a radiant lover but would consider a round center. I would also try to get a stone with the same size and dimensions so the setting would not have to be remade (FI said it took quite an effort to get to the design as it is now and does not want to go through the process of remaking it). I am not opposed to a grading between an I-J as long as it shows off more white than yellow. I understand fluorescence can make the diamond face up whiter than what it actually is. I have seen pictures on this site with fluorescence and the stones are absolutely beautiful.

Now, on with the (many) questions. With the warmth and inclusions, do you think it’s worth it for me to upgrade the stone in color and clarity?

I have seen many comments when it comes to GIA vs EGL certified stones and I see the GIA stones are the preferred choice of stone selection. Although I have read that an EGL cert is unreliable, I have been told by a GIA gemologist that EGL USA is not a bad alternative to GIA. What about staying with a diamond graded D-G with this certifier? I have also seen where some Js posted on this site that look just as a bright as a G and are breath taking. If you think I should trade it in, what about an even trade, like trying to get another stone under a GIA certificate with like a J/SI 2 (eye clean) stone – perhaps with fluorescence?

I really do love the way my ring shows in places such as bright sunlight, in the office area where I work, in restaurants, and in grocery stores (the sparkle is insane, the color looks so great with my setting and most times I can’t see the inclusions). The stone can appear to be white – especially in bright sunlight.

What I’m not so crazy about is when the sun is not shining brightly and the stone gives off a very, very warm color and you can easily see the inclusions. The stone color transitions in different lighting which is not a bad thing at all, it’s just that there are times that the stone can appear to very warm (which is actually kinda growing on me because it sparkles so well) and the inclusion can be visible. You can typically see the inclusions within 6 inches - 12 inches of looking at the ring when the lighting is hitting it at the right angles.
I’m a little confused about whether or not I should trade in the stone because in the right light, it’s gorgeous and I absolutely love it! I’m really wondering if this process is worth the trade in.

If you were to see me wearing the ring and looked at it for a moment, you would not see it. You really do have to look for the inclusions (and look for it at certain angles) to see it. If you examined it closely, a sharp eyed person could see it. Or if the light hits it just right, you may be able to easily see it.

Sooooo, do you think it’s worth the trade even if it means going down in carat weight (preferably no lower than a 4 carat stone to get the same dimensions and to not have to remake the setting)or should I just leave it as is?

From the research I have seen online, if the EGL certified stone I have now that is graded as an H is graded as a J/SI2 in GIA, what do you think is a fair value for my stone if I were to trade it in? If I decide to trade it in, any recommendations on a vendor who would accept my stone as a trade in for a new one? And what type of stone and carat weight would you prefer?

All of your insights and suggestions are much appreciated. Thank you!

BTW, for all the Psers who would like to know the details of my other bands you will see with my e-ring

Band One:
G/H
VS2/SI bead set stones
.43tcw


Band Two (Eternity):
F/G
VS2/SI1 stones
16-17 pointers all the way around


2.55 tcw
Tcw (approximate) with all three bands worn together: A whopping 12.50!!


My DD and I tried to capture the ring as best as we could in the different lighting. We couldn't quite capture exactly as it appears IRL, but these pics should give you an idea. We also tried to capture the inclusion as best as we could, but I think they were hiding from the camera You can really see it in one shot out of the bunch.

When I get some extra time, I will look at posting a video of it IRL as well (the ony I initially did was so bright, all you see is a rainbow of colors and it's hard to see the ring).

Ok...uploading the pics.....

 

[radiantbeauty]

Wearing the ring in the bright sun....

 

[radiantbeauty]

More bright sunlight photos and natural daylight photos...

 

[radiantbeauty]

Here is where you see the warmth (the top picture is where you see it the most).....

 

[radiantbeauty]

Let me know if you think I should upload bigger pictures...

Thanks everyone for looking!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Welcome! Wow, you have a a very BLINGY ring!!! It is set very high so be sure you have it fully insured!

As you have already gathered, your EGL H color is likely J or K color in GIA grading, so that is why you are seeing tint. You'd need probably GIA H or maybe a high I to not see tint, and I wouldn't fool with EGL if you look for a replacement stone. Since there are visible inclusions, it is probably I1 clarity. The bad news is that I doubt $5k is going to get you a better color and clarity stone.

Ironically, we have another member here with a gorgeous 5 ct. radiant, I believe. I'll attach a picture but I'd have to look to see what color it is. It belongs to canuk-gal. Your main problem will be that you have a very elaborate setting and finding another 5 carat radiant that will fit that setting may be a challenge. I probably can't find online comps for a stone that large, but I'll take a quick look.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Okay, I actually found a few, but even though they are 5 cts., you'd have to know the exact dimensions of your current stone in order to get one as close as possible to the same size.

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-VS2-Very-Good-Cut-Radiant-Diamond-1512900.asp

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Radiant-Diamond-1493201.asp

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Radiant-Diamond-1363015.asp

 

[JulieN]

I'm sorry, I don't think you can upgrade for $5000. Not changing the setting locks you into a VERY large stone, and upgrading to from a J to H probably already costs about 5000 in the 2 ct range. For a radiant of this size, I think going up to a G would be a minimum, and this would already be 10s of thousands.

Here is an I VS2 to give you an idea of prices: http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-VS2-Good-Cut-Radiant-Diamond-1383289.asp and then a G VS2 http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-VS2-Good-Cut-Radiant-Diamond-1383289.asp it is already 70% more. Going from a J to a G could very easily cost double what your stone retails for today.

 

[distracts]

It will be really, really hard to get a stone that will fit in your setting. I don't know that it is even possible to change the stone out with prongs like that.

If you like almost everything about your ring, I would keep it until some milestone anniversary when you can get a new one. If you don't like it, and your original vendor doesn't have a trade-in policy (and even if they do, many have that you have to spend twice the price to get something), I think your best bet is to consign the whole ring and use the money from the eventual sale (which may take quite a while) to get a new one. This is probably the best way to go even if you decide to keep it for now and get a new one in the future.

 

[kenny]

Upgrading a 5-carat diamond on a $5,000 budget?
It sounds like you want a 5 ct eye clean diamond that shows no body color ... $5,000 may not even pay for the sales tax of such a new stone.
Also, if you can even find a vendor who accepts an EGL diamond as a trade he/she isn't going to give you much for it.
This means, even with your $5,000 contribution you will be shopping for diamond of a lower price than the one you sold.
That's not an upgrade; it's a downgrade.

Diamonds are NOT investments.
We have to buy at retail, but sell at wholesale.
Diamonds are not like an ounce of gold that you can buy and sell at a very similar and universally agreed-to price.

Next, did the business you bought it from have a trade in policy that gives you 100% credit towards the new diamond?
If so that is where you have to shop for the new diamond.
If not and you have to sell it yourself you may lose near half your money, especially since it was graded by EGL.
Even with an unlimited budget it would not be easy to find another diamond that just happens to fit your setting and happens to cost $5,000 more.

Diamonds graded by AGS and GIA are easier to sell because you can believe their grades.
An EGL may be 1, 2, 3, 4, grades or more "optimistic" on color and clarity, and everyone in the industry knows it.

It sounds like you are impressing the sox off of everyone who sees it now, and already took the path that leads to the largest rock for the money, it so I'd just keep it.

Another path is to consign the entire set at a jeweler or sell it on diamond bistro.
Then read PS for a long time and learn lots and lots before shopping.

If you decide to sell it I'd have the stone removed and send it to GIA for a report that will make it easier to sell, even though the grades will be lower.
At least you and the buyer will be sure of what the clarity and color grades are, which helps support a price.
Another approach is to sell it as is with EGL paper to an uninformed buyer (there are zillions of them who think all H SI2s are the same regardless of which lab graded it) for the highest price you can get.

 

[Dreamer_D]

You won't be able to increase the color or clarity at that carat weight for $5k. Perhaps you can find a diamond with less obvious inclusions also with an EGL report, or perhaps lower color and better clarity.

FWIW most slightly tinted diamonds look sort of brownish or umber in strong direct sublight when the sun catches crushed ice style virtual facets. I have noticed this in my own stones. So that effect may not totally go away with higher color.

 

[radiantbeauty]

Thanks to everyone who has provided input so far! As you can see, this is a challenge. You’ve given me some things to think about, so I am really glad for the suggestions.

Diamondseeker2006 – thanks for welcoming me aboard Yeah, the ring is very blingy..heheh. I was thinking that perhaps I did need to go a G or no lower than an H to see more of a white color. Thanks for the suggestions on the alternate stones.

My ring dimensions are 9.46 x 9.17.


JulieN, distracts– Yeah, I think you are right, it will cost $10s of thousands more for a G color stone in the same carat weight. Because we have so many other things to do, we have to focus monies elsewhere for the time being. Waiting for a milestone to upgrade is one great idea. I think he wanted to give me a ring I would never have to upgrade. He always wanted me to have a “rock.” Consignment does sound like a very lengthy process, but may be worth the trade in. Something to think about…..
Kenny – Thanks so much for the info. To answer your question about the trade in policy, yes the store does offer a trade in policy at 100% of purchase price PLUS appreciated value. There is no requirement as to how much is required to spend, as long as the new stone costs at least $1.00 more. It seems I can trade it in for any stone. I will look into what the appreciated value is and how much they are willing to credit me for the stone.

The $5,000.00 additional money is for if they credit $15,000 for the existing stone, but the new stone I am purchasing is $20,000, then the $5,000 would go towards that stone (I know these numbers are not real).

What’s diamond bistro?

Another good idea to have the stone graded as a GIA

Dreamer D – Interesting point you make about the color of the crushed ice styles with a higher color. I really did not know that and I will consider that when looking at higher graded stones.

 

[milton333]

Diamond bistro is kind of like ebay for jewelry. Individuals selling, some small cutters selling colored stones. Google and you'll find it.

On radiants and the "crushed ice" effect - that cut does tend to show more body color than other diamond cuts. It's why fancy yellow diamonds are frequently cut in a crushed ice radiant style, to enhance the color. In white diamonds, it can be a cut that tends to show more body color than, say, a well-cut round.

IMO, you're unlikely to be able to swap out the stone in your existing ring, and certainly unlikely to be able to upgrade both color and clarity within any reasonable price point. I'd personally learn to love the ring for its personality, because it sounds like your hubby is pretty invested in the "rock" and the setting, and it's just going to be a needle in a haystack to replace this stone with something that will fit and be visually pleasing in your budget.

 

[kenny]

The $5,000.00 additional money is for if they credit $15,000 for the existing stone, but the new stone I am purchasing is $20,000, then the $5,000 would go towards that stone (I know these numbers are not real).

100% trade in, plus appreciation, plus needing to spend only one dollar more?
Wow, that sounds too good to be true.

You expect your 5-ct diamond to have a retail value of $15,000, including appreciation?
That's way too low for a 5 ct H SI2, even from EGL.
If I may ask, when did you buy it and what was the center diamond's price?

Bluenile has the largest online virtual selection I know of: http://www.bluenile.com/diamond-search?track=head

I just did a search that returned 211 radiants that range from 5.00 ct to 5.15 ct, in their entire range of color and clarity, D - J and FL to SI2, and all cut qualities from Fair to Signature Ideal.

Their price range was from $40,697 to $779,775.

Granted, they all have GIA reports ... but still ... $15K for a 5 ct radiant in a retail store is suspiciously low.
Please check your EGL report to see if your diamond was clarity enhanced.
That is the only explanation I can image for getting such a large diamond for such a low price.

 

[radiantbeauty]

milton33 - thanks for that response . That was quite nice. I have also read that about color being more apparent with the "fancy" stones. And yes, it does have personality! I will check out the diamond bistro site too.

kenny - Yeah, I know the $15,000 is not an accurate number. They were fictitious numbers. I only used those numbers as an example so you could see what I was talking about in terms of the additional $5k. My FI did not pay $15k for the diamond.

I think if my stone were regraded by GIA to a J, it may be list closer to the $40k you referenced. It is definitely not clarity enhanced and does not show it on the cert.

 

[kenny]

kenny - Yeah, I know the $15,000 is not an accurate number. They were fictitious numbers. I only used those numbers as an example so you could see what I was talking about in terms of the additional $5k. My FI did not pay $15k for the diamond.

Thank you for the clarification.

 

[Rosebloom]

Hi Love2Sparkle!

I think you have a super fun, awesomely blingy ring. You've gotten some great advice here and it sounds like it would be cost prohibitive to upgrade now. So, love that amazing, blinding set for what it is!! If I saw you wearing it I would love to see it sparkle and wouldn't notice the inclusions or occassional warmth.

But... You could totally use that $5k on a pendant and get a 1 carat GIA H/VS radiant and see how you like that color and clarity combo. Then at a future time if you're ready to upgrade you'll know what you like (although a 5 carat stone will show more color than a one carat of the same grade).

Here's a radiant solitaire pendant I've always loved:
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-mothers-whiteflash-birthday-present.59658/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-mothers-whiteflash-birthday-present.59658/[/URL]

Let us know what you decide to do!

 

[radiantbeauty]

Hi Rosebloom!

Thanks for the kind words about my setting What a fun idea about the radiant stone purchase. I loooove diamonds so this would be a great reason for me to get another stone

I will definitely keep in mind that in larger stones you will see more color.

Nice pic of the pendant. Thanks for sharing..It shows really well....

 

[Dreamer_D]

Our point about the $5k not getting you an upgrade is that as a % of the cost of your diamond it is too low to make a marked increase in clarity or color. At that carat weight one clarity grade or one color grade is likely to cost an *additional* $10k+. So you would need to add at least $10k++ to what you already spent to make a difference. We are suggesting that is not doable.

There are no stores I have heard of that offer appreciation on upgrades. If they do, then I guarantee they are making a bigger profit at the other end of the deal -- a higher cost for the replacement than you would spend if you bought the replacement with cash that day. Sounds like a feel good policy to me. I know, you are going to tell me its the best jewler in the world the most honest, you are so lucky I am telling you to do your homework before going forward because when it sounds too good to be true, it is. Full stop. The diamond industry is cut throat.

 

[radiantbeauty]

Dreamer D - thanks again for the info...

I have started the process of contacting the vendor to see what other options are available as a center stone. I have been told this process could be very lengthy and could take months to find something similar within budget.

I will definitely post possible stone options on this site and get all of your input BEFORE trading it. Everyone has been great with advice

**************

What does everyone think of the possibility of replacing it with a round stone? I see there are similar round stones in my dimensions but would mean going down in carat weight in that size. It looks like between 3-4 carats - maybe closer to 3.

Do you think it would be worth going higher in color and clarity while loosing the carat weight?

 

[distracts]

What does everyone think of the possibility of replacing it with a round stone? I see there are similar round stones in my dimensions but would mean going down in carat weight in that size. It looks like between 3-4 carats - maybe closer to 3.

Do you think it would be worth going higher in color and clarity while loosing the carat weight?

You'd have to ask your jeweler or whoever made the setting if that would even be possible to do.

And only you can say whether you'd be happy with a smaller round cut diamond.

 

[UberClaire]

A round will face up larger than a radiant, so if you're comparing size for size, a smaller round will probably be of similar size. If you want to keep the setting though, it will be difficult if not impossible to switch out the center stone, especially going from radiant to round.

Also keep in mind that EGL can be more than one grade off in color -- there was a fairly recent thread here where an EGL stone was 5 color grades below what GIA graded it, I believe. Not that that is the norm, but I think two color grade differences is average.

 

[blingbunny10]

That is some major bling!

If if were me and the sentimentality aspect didn't bother me, I'd go down in size and up in color to a G if I could. Then I'd put the rest of the trade-in / additional funds into upping the clarity to SI1 (or VS2 if I had enough $$). You're right to not want to go too small with your setting style. I think your setting needs a larger diamond in it!

 

[VRBeauty]

What does everyone think of the possibility of replacing it with a round stone? I see there are similar round stones in my dimensions but would mean going down in carat weight in that size. It looks like between 3-4 carats - maybe closer to 3.

Do you think it would be worth going higher in color and clarity while loosing the carat weight?

My reasoning may be off here. If so, please feel free to correct me!

Because your square stone is corner-set, you'd need find a round that has the same diameter as the diagonal of your current stone, rather than a round with the same diameter as one of the sides. I calculate the diagonal of your stone to be over 13mm, which means that you would need a 7-plus carat round to fit your setting as it is now.

 

[distracts]

What does everyone think of the possibility of replacing it with a round stone? I see there are similar round stones in my dimensions but would mean going down in carat weight in that size. It looks like between 3-4 carats - maybe closer to 3.

Do you think it would be worth going higher in color and clarity while loosing the carat weight?

My reasoning may be off here. If so, please feel free to correct me!

Because your square stone is corner-set, you'd need find a round that has the same diameter as the diagonal of your current stone, rather than a round with the same diameter as one of the sides. I calculate the diagonal of your stone to be over 13mm, which means that you would need a 7-plus carat round to fit your setting as it is now.

Ehm yes. There is that.

 

[sonnyjane]

What does everyone think of the possibility of replacing it with a round stone? I see there are similar round stones in my dimensions but would mean going down in carat weight in that size. It looks like between 3-4 carats - maybe closer to 3.

Do you think it would be worth going higher in color and clarity while loosing the carat weight?

My reasoning may be off here. If so, please feel free to correct me!

Because your square stone is corner-set, you'd need find a round that has the same diameter as the diagonal of your current stone, rather than a round with the same diameter as one of the sides. I calculate the diagonal of your stone to be over 13mm, which means that you would need a 7-plus carat round to fit your setting as it is now.

Gooooooood catch!

 

[radiantbeauty]

Wow, you are all amazing with the info...I wish we found you all when we first started our search for rings


So I really can't match mm to mm with a different stone? I just (tape) measured with a ruler the size of the radiant stone and it does come out to between 11-13 mm diagonally!! That is an observation VRBeauty I would have never caught. distracts and sonnyjane are right too.

So doe this mean that the round trade in option is ruled out?

I think rounds are priced a little differently (so I have been told) than other style diamonds. If this is the case and the calculations correct, then a 7 carat diamond in a higher color and clarity is definitely not an option for now.

In the meantime, I am working on the options for a possible trade in just to see what is available within the parameters I am working with. I will check and see what they say about the round option as well. The manager is out until next week so we will touch base then. It's good to have this information so I can have a full understanding of what to do.

 

[radiantbeauty]

Thanks blingbunny10 for the compliment. Yes, I think the setting deserves a large diamond too

 

[radiantbeauty]

Hi Everyone!

I have been taking the time to read PS daily and really think about your suggestions. I am thinking I will likely upgrade the color and clarity even it means loosing the carat weight. I think if I can at least keep the same current dimensions as my radiant stone, I won't feel like I'm "loosing" any carat weight. I know this may ultimately mean starting over in a new setting and I am OK with that.

I think if I found a new stone I really love within my parameters and budget, then I would be fine with setting it in a classic solitaire setting until I can recreate a new "personality setting" for the stone.

I really don't want to recreate the existing setting I have because of my FI efforts in creating it and I really do love it. I am thinking I could place a temporary CZ stone until we come to another milestone in our lives and then use that time to upgrade and get a whole new stone. Temp stones I am thinking are Asha, moissanite, etc.

I have had several conversations with the original vendor and I have been told they found a few possibilities and are looking to have the stones in next week for an inspection. I will post as soon as I have more information on those stones. I have also ventured out and spoke with other vendors to see if I can upgrade with them. I will also have more information next on week that as well.

For now, I am enjoying the many different personalities of the setting.

Since I am having such a difficult time capturing the setting by camera, I am attaching video links of how the rings show in bright sunlight.

 

[radiantbeauty]

I am having a really hard time attaching the video links to the post. It keeps telling there is a server error. I will try again later. Hopefully it work then!