99.2% of recent US Covid deaths were unvaccinated people

[ItsMainelyYou]

Seriously?

New Delta strain believed to have emerged among 53,000 revellers at Boardmasters festival

Almost 5,000 infections have been linked to the Boardmasters festival in Cornwall, and with half a million music lovers at even larger events over the Bank Holiday, officials fear revellers are being hit by a new strain of the Delta variant

inews.co.uk

Seriously?! This is why.

 

[MrsBlue]

I just read this tidbit. Please note the dosage. If the stuff comes in 3 mg pills, what are the chances that 30mg a day for 3 weeks is a good idea?

Judge orders Cincy-area hospital to treat COVID-19 patient with ivermectin, despite warnings

Butler County Common Pleas Judge Gregory Howard ordered West Chester Hospital, part of the UC Health network, to treat Jeffrey Smith with ivermectin daily for three weeks

www.cleveland19.com

CINCINNATI (WXIX) - A Butler County judge has ruled in favor of a woman who sued to force a hospital to treat her husband with Ivermectin — an anti-parasitic drug that federal regulators have warned against using in COVID-19 patients.

Butler County Common Pleas Judge Gregory Howard ordered West Chester Hospital, part of the UC Health network, to treat Jeffrey Smith, 51, with Ivermectin.

The Aug. 23 decision requires the hospital to allow Dr. Fred Wagshul to administer 30mg of Ivermectin daily for three weeks to Smith.

The judge’s two-page order does not explain the reasoning behind his decision.

Smith has been in the hospital several weeks fighting the virus, court records show.

His wife, Julie Smith, asked the court Aug. 20 for an emergency order for the use of Ivermectin.

Last week, the Food and Drug Administration discouraged the drug from being used to treat patients hospitalized with COVID-19 and from it being used as a preventative measure.

“You are not a horse,” the FDA tweeted on Saturday. “You are not a cow. Seriously, y’all. Stop it.”

 

[Diamond Girl 21]

I just read this tidbit. Please note the dosage. If the stuff comes in 3 mg pills, what are the chances that 30mg a day for 3 weeks is a good idea?

Judge orders Cincy-area hospital to treat COVID-19 patient with ivermectin, despite warnings

Butler County Common Pleas Judge Gregory Howard ordered West Chester Hospital, part of the UC Health network, to treat Jeffrey Smith with ivermectin daily for three weeks

www.cleveland19.com

CINCINNATI (WXIX) - A Butler County judge has ruled in favor of a woman who sued to force a hospital to treat her husband with Ivermectin — an anti-parasitic drug that federal regulators have warned against using in COVID-19 patients.

Butler County Common Pleas Judge Gregory Howard ordered West Chester Hospital, part of the UC Health network, to treat Jeffrey Smith, 51, with Ivermectin.

The Aug. 23 decision requires the hospital to allow Dr. Fred Wagshul to administer 30mg of Ivermectin daily for three weeks to Smith.

The judge’s two-page order does not explain the reasoning behind his decision.

Smith has been in the hospital several weeks fighting the virus, court records show.

His wife, Julie Smith, asked the court Aug. 20 for an emergency order for the use of Ivermectin.

Last week, the Food and Drug Administration discouraged the drug from being used to treat patients hospitalized with COVID-19 and from it being used as a preventative measure.

“You are not a horse,” the FDA tweeted on Saturday. “You are not a cow. Seriously, y’all. Stop it.”

I have a doctor who uses it when his patients have long term covid, or have long term covid like symptoms from vaccination. It is the same drug, but formulated for people and approved for treatment of ringworm I believe. It is only given in the smallest dose a few times per week, and in conjunction with other treatment. It does appear to be an effective treatment when used properly. There's a huge difference between that and what is presented in the article. I hope it turns out ok.

 

[mrs-b]

I don't know for sure - just as you don't know for sure. I understand all of the people who listen to what the so called "professionals" and Dr. Fauci say however, I don't agree with what they're saying. I do not trust the government, and most certainly , I do not trust Dr. Fauci. Too much misinformation. And I refuse to take a vaccine when I have already had the virus and am most certain that I am just as safe as those who have been vaccinated. We have talked with our Doctors and based on what we know, we feel certain that it's right that we don't take the "vaccine". And again, it's not a vaccine, it's an experimental drug - they're referring to it as a vaccine so that they have no liability to those who have side effects or death due to the experiment. Personally, I feel that it is a big Pharma push. Long term will prove more information. The scary thing about this, they're not documenting the negative effects of the "vaccine" - this concerns me.

Well, it's not an experimental drug anymore.

And "so called "professionals"" are so called for very good reasons - years and years of study and working in the industry.

As for having had the virus - my husband works with a man whose wife works in an ICU ward with covid patients. She's had the virus three times in the last 18 months.

Latest research says antibodies from the virus last reliably (ie protectively) about 3 months - after that - it's a case by case basis. Where did I hear that? At my local, very good, by the way, hospital on Friday. That's the protection members of staff are told to expect after contracting covid. Beyond that - vaccinate.

As for not trusting the media - I don't automatically trust any specific one*** - but I DO trust the general body of media. When 95% of people are saying the same thing, I think you have a quorum at that point. I just don't think CNN or the New York Times have any investment in me being either vaccinated or non-vaccinated, except for the fact that it helps stop a global pandemic. This whole 'everybody is out to get me and pull one over on me' mentality is just nutty. I've never heard anyone give a convincing argument as to why they think any government wouldn't want this thing to be over as quickly and seamlessly as possible. 'Solving covid' would be a one way ticket to re-election - hell! - to sainthood! Why the US government would want to control some average middle aged lady in New England makes no sense and the arguments hold no water.

***Actually, I take that back. I do trust one - Vox. Their research is second to none and I consider them to be as unbiased as it's possible to be.

 

[ItsMainelyYou]

I have a doctor who uses it when his patients have long term covid, or have long term covid like symptoms from vaccination. It is the same drug, but formulated for people and approved for treatment of ringworm I believe. It is only given in the smallest dose a few times per week, and in conjunction with other treatment. It does appear to be an effective treatment when used properly. There's a huge difference between that and what is presented in the article. I hope it turns out ok.

No, it isn't.
The study showing effectiveness was withdrawn due to bad data and ethical concerns. Read this article.

Flawed ivermectin preprint highlights challenges of COVID drug studies

The study’s withdrawal from a preprint platform deals a blow to the anti-parasite drug’s chances as a COVID treatment, researchers say.

www.nature.com

snip:
Although dozens of ivermectin clinical trials have been launched over the past year3, the Elgazzar paper was notable for announcing one of the first positive results, as well as for its size — it included 400 people with symptoms of COVID-19 — and the magnitude of the drug’s effect. Few therapies can claim such an impressive reduction in death rates. “It was a significant difference, and that stood out,” says Andrew Hill, who studies repurposed drugs at the University of Liverpool, UK. “It should have raised red flags even then.”

No competent doctor should be prescribing this.

Ivermectin is not effective against Covid.
Showing promise in a petri dish in limited study setting is not the same as working in actual people. Many drugs will do this and never make it to clinical trial.
It only stopped replication of cells in a dish at a dose that is poisonous to humans.

 

[mrs-b]

This is the treatment I'm keeping my hopeful eye on:

88 patients, 0 intubated: Israeli ‘precision’ COVID drug wrapping up early trial

Placebo study still to come, but inventor says medication 'could be a game changer' after around 9 out of 10 participants in Greek trial are released from hospital within 5 days

www.timesofisrael.com

Failing this, I'd be pushing for dexamethasone, redesivir and regeneron. That, plus antibiotics, is the cocktail Trump received, as I understand it. And I'm pretty sure they spared no options where he was concerned.

 

[ItsMainelyYou]

This is the treatment I'm keeping my hopeful eye on:

88 patients, 0 intubated: Israeli ‘precision’ COVID drug wrapping up early trial

Placebo study still to come, but inventor says medication 'could be a game changer' after around 9 out of 10 participants in Greek trial are released from hospital within 5 days

www.timesofisrael.com

Failing this, I'd be pushing for dexamethasone, redesivir and regeneron. That, plus antibiotics, is the cocktail Trump received, as I understand it. And I'm pretty sure they spared no options where he was concerned.

This is what we're talking about, possible targeted cell death through the inhibition of certain cell evasion signals(kind of like cloaking) interacting each other allowing the immune system to then destroy them.
This is amazing.

 

[wildcat03]

If I came down with COVID, I'd want Regeneron (or similar antibody infusion) early. If I'm hospitalized, the dexamethasone and maybe tocilizumab. The data on remdesivir isn't great unfortunately (nor, admittedly is it for tocilizumab). If I develop long COVID I would try low dose naltrexone (which I have taken before for other reasons).

No Ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine.

 

[missy]

An acquaintance just died from Covid. He had Covid about 8 months ago so thought he was safe (because he had antibodies to Covid) and didn't get vaccinated. He had no pre-existing conditions. He died in the hospital on a ventilator. It is a big loss. He was a sweet man. 60 years old. Healthy, before he got Covid (for the second time).

 

[wildcat03]

An acquaintance just died from Covid. He had Covid about 8 months ago so thought he was safe (because he had antibodies to Covid) and didn't get vaccinated. He had no pre-existing conditions. He died in the hospital on a ventilator. It is a big loss. He was a sweet man. 60 years old. Healthy, before he got Covid (for the second time).

Oh wow. I have wondered if the second round of COVID is worse than the first. My cousin's son (too young to be vaccinated) has had it 3 times. The second time definitely hit him the hardest but he's fine. I have also seen patients for whom the second infection was markedly worse.

 

[MamaBee]

If I came down with COVID, I'd want Regeneron (or similar antibody infusion) early. If I'm hospitalized, the dexamethasone and maybe tocilizumab. The data on remdesivir isn't great unfortunately (nor, admittedly is it for tocilizumab). If I develop long COVID I would try low dose naltrexone (which I have taken before for other reasons).

No Ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine.

I’m printing this out @wildcat03..

 

[ItsMainelyYou]

I'm very sorry to hear that.

An acquaintance just died from Covid. He had Covid about 8 months ago so thought he was safe (because he had antibodies to Covid) and didn't get vaccinated. He had no pre-existing conditions. He died in the hospital on a ventilator. It is a big loss. He was a sweet man. 60 years old. Healthy, before he got Covid (for the second time).

 

[MamaBee]

An acquaintance just died from Covid. He had Covid about 8 months ago so thought he was safe (because he had antibodies to Covid) and didn't get vaccinated. He had no pre-existing conditions. He died in the hospital on a ventilator. It is a big loss. He was a sweet man. 60 years old. Healthy, before he got Covid (for the second time).

I’m so sorry @missy

 

[Asscherhalo_lover]

Oh wow. I have wondered if the second round of COVID is worse than the first. My cousin's son (too young to be vaccinated) has had it 3 times. The second time definitely hit him the hardest but he's fine. I have also seen patients for whom the second infection was markedly worse.

This was the case for my husband's boss. Round 1 was asymptomatic. Round 2 was months ago and she still has symptoms.

 

[Diamond Girl 21]

No, it isn't.
The study showing effectiveness was withdrawn due to bad data and ethical concerns. Read this article.

Flawed ivermectin preprint highlights challenges of COVID drug studies

The study’s withdrawal from a preprint platform deals a blow to the anti-parasite drug’s chances as a COVID treatment, researchers say.

www.nature.com

snip:
Although dozens of ivermectin clinical trials have been launched over the past year3, the Elgazzar paper was notable for announcing one of the first positive results, as well as for its size — it included 400 people with symptoms of COVID-19 — and the magnitude of the drug’s effect. Few therapies can claim such an impressive reduction in death rates. “It was a significant difference, and that stood out,” says Andrew Hill, who studies repurposed drugs at the University of Liverpool, UK. “It should have raised red flags even then.”

No competent doctor should be prescribing this.

Ivermectin is not effective against Covid.
Showing promise in a petri dish in limited study setting is not the same as working in actual people. Many drugs will do this and never make it to clinical trial.
It only stopped replication of cells in a dish at a dose that is poisonous to humans.

There are multiple doctors using it on their patients. The doctor I was referring to is a world renowned oncologist and research scientist.

I'm not taking it, but will be happy to forward this information to him.

 

[ItsMainelyYou]

There are multiple doctors using it on their patients. The doctor I was referring to is a world renowned oncologist and research scientist.

I'm not taking it, but will be happy to forward this information to him.

Probably a good idea that you don't take it, the only major study (Surgisphere Group) showing efficacy is now under investigation for ethical concerns/plagiarism/fraud for this study.
This article talks about just how easy it is to release findings that can disseminate before proper vetting and peer review and the problems this can cause.

Ivermectin COVID-19 Scandal Shows How Vulnerable Science Is to Fraud

Haruko Obokata published two papers in January 2014 that described how regular blood cells could be turned into pluripotent stem cells.

www.sciencealert.com

I suppose it's his/her prerogative to employ the spaghetti technique.
Though, there have been rumblings of medical board advisory investigation in Arkansas for the practice.

Doctor investigated by medical board for using ivermectin to treat patients, inmates

Dr. Robert Karas, who owns Karas Health Care in Arkansas, said he began using the drug in late 2020 to treat people with the disease.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Diamond Girl 21]

Probably a good idea that you don't take it, the only major study (Surgisphere Group) showing efficacy is now under investigation for ethical concerns/plagiarism/fraud for this study.
This article talks about just how easy it is to release findings that can disseminate before proper vetting and peer review and the problems this can cause.

Ivermectin COVID-19 Scandal Shows How Vulnerable Science Is to Fraud

Haruko Obokata published two papers in January 2014 that described how regular blood cells could be turned into pluripotent stem cells.

www.sciencealert.com

I suppose it's his/her prerogative to employ the spaghetti technique.
Though, there have been rumblings of medical board advisory investigation in Arkansas for the practice.

Doctor investigated by medical board for using ivermectin to treat patients, inmates

Dr. Robert Karas, who owns Karas Health Care in Arkansas, said he began using the drug in late 2020 to treat people with the disease.

www.nbcnews.com

Oh boy!!! He has excellent credentials. It really makes you wonder who you can trust. I will definitely bring this to his attention.

 

[ItsMainelyYou]

Oh boy!!! It really makes you wonder who you can trust. I will definitely bring this to his attention.

I agree, it does.
That's a very good idea, it can't hurt.
I'm sure he/she is trying to treat his/her patients to the best of their ability. They may not even know about this yet.
But yes, it's very important for any and all research to be thoroughly peer reviewed before release- but with the advent of the internet all information is just immediately blurted out there, entire in many cases, before that can happen. Anyone can take that info. and if it suits their purpose, use it to their own ends.

 

[Diamond Girl 21]

Top Yale Doctor/Researcher: ‘Ivermectin works,’ including for long-haul COVID

Note that views expressed in this opinion article are the writer’s personal views and not necessarily those of TrialSite.

trialsitenews.com

@ItsMainelyYou this isn't the doctor I was referring to but the theory seems the same. I hope things get settled quickly.

In the meantime, my hair stylist actually does take the horse pills. Terrifying!

 

[maru8888777]

Oh boy!!! He has excellent credentials. It really makes you wonder who you can trust. I will definitely bring this to his attention.

I've been thinking about how the question of "who can you trust" has become so central that we all wind up speaking past each other (i.e. "trust science" vs. "don't be a sheep"), but maybe the issue is not about "who" but "how"... meaning how we interpret data and understand the world around us, and how we deal with inconsistencies and/or incomplete information. The headline of "Yale doctor says" on that story almost obscures the fact that the rest of the article is dealing with anecdotal information: he's trying it on his own family, he can remain silent no longer, he thinks it works, there's a "growing number of doctors" (unspecified) who agree, etc. In the meantime, doctors in South America have been doing controlled, randomized, clinical trials that show that ivermectin does not decrease Covid symptoms. The trial was published by JAMA, even. But Colombia is not Yale, so people won't be as trusting, even though doctors in the developing world would definitely want a drug as widely available and easily produced as Ivermectin to work.

Edited to add: I fall for this too, not pointing fingers at anyone on this forum. Just saying that I'm learning to pay attention to different things due to the pandemic.

 

[Diamond Girl 21]

I've been thinking about how the question of "who can you trust" has become so central that we all wind up speaking past each other (i.e. "trust science" vs. "don't be a sheep"), but maybe the issue is not about "who" but "how"... meaning how we interpret data and understand the world around us, and how we deal with inconsistencies and/or incomplete information. The headline of "Yale doctor says" on that story almost obscures the fact that the rest of the article is dealing with anecdotal information: he's trying it on his own family, he can remain silent no longer, he thinks it works, there's a "growing number of doctors" (unspecified) who agree, etc. In the meantime, doctors in South America have been doing controlled, randomized, clinical trials that show that ivermectin does not decrease Covid symptoms. The trial was published by JAMA, even. But Colombia is not Yale, so people won't be as trusting, even though doctors in the developing world would definitely want a drug as widely available and easily produced as Ivermectin to work.

Edited to add: I fall for this too, not pointing fingers at anyone on this forum. Just saying that I'm learning to pay attention to different things due to the pandemic.

I agree 100%. I'm in a unique position because I was originally advised not to get the vaccine. Now that the virus is mutating and the science is evolving, most of my doctors changed their recommendation.

I wish I were comfortable with my decision to get the vaccine, but truthfully, I'm not. All I can do is make the best decision based on the credible data that is available. Hopefully it all goes well.

Edited to add that my team of doctors have excellent credentials. I'm glad that they base their recommendations on my personal issues instead of general recommendations.

 

[mrs-b]

Absolutely. A THOUSAND per cent.

 

[maru8888777]

I agree 100%. I'm in a unique position because I was originally advised not to get the vaccine. Now that the virus is mutating and the science is evolving, most of my doctors changed their recommendation.

I wish I were comfortable with my decision to get the vaccine, but truthfully, I'm not. All I can do is make the best decision based on the credible data that is available. Hopefully it all goes well.

Edited to add that my team of doctors have excellent credentials. I'm glad that they base their recommendations on my personal issues instead of general recommendations.

I hope things go well for you! It's a hard world we are navigating, and it's hard to make decisions when we're not sure about what the future will hold. I also hope that you are protected by those around you and that you have all the supports that you need to make the best choices possible!

 

[Diamond Girl 21]

I hope things go well for you! It's a hard world we are navigating, and it's hard to make decisions when we're not sure about what the future will hold. I also hope that you are protected by those around you and that you have all the supports that you need to make the best choices possible!

Thank you @maru8888777. Everyone in my family is vaccinated and very supportive. I am grateful.

 

[missy]

Oh wow. I have wondered if the second round of COVID is worse than the first. My cousin's son (too young to be vaccinated) has had it 3 times. The second time definitely hit him the hardest but he's fine. I have also seen patients for whom the second infection was markedly worse.

I don't know how they know this but his family said he died from the Delta variant. Perhaps because that is the main variant infecting people now? It is a crying shame. He was a good person. He loved Salsa dancing and he had such a kind spirit. I know this scenario is playing out all over. And the what ifs. If only he had gotten vaccinated.

 

[icy_jade]

I know this scenario is playing out all over. And the what ifs. If only he had gotten vaccinated.

There is no second chance unfortunately. The unvaccinated really should think about that. Plus the fact that whatever medical reason or underlying condition that they are using as an excuse* not to get the vaccine is likely to lower their chances of surviving covid anyway.

In Singapore, we are getting covid deaths mostly from unvaccinated elderly with pre-existing conditions. The combination (elderly, unvaccinated, and pre-existing conditions) really does seem like a death sentence to be honest.

*Going by current qualified medical advisories, not that many conditions qualifies someone not to vaccinate.

 

[missy]

There is no second chance unfortunately. The unvaccinated really should think about that. Plus the fact that whatever medical reason or underlying condition that they are using as an excuse* not to get the vaccine is likely to lower their chances of surviving covid anyway.

In Singapore, we are getting covid deaths mostly from unvaccinated elderly with pre-existing conditions. The combination (elderly, unvaccinated, and pre-existing conditions) really does seem like a death sentence to be honest.

*Going by current qualified medical advisories, not that many conditions qualifies someone not to vaccinate.

Absolutely agree. What makes this all the more tragic is he had Covid and survived but thought that meant (are you listening @Dancing Fire) he was safe from getting Covid again. I know his family wishes he had gotten vaccinated. There will never be another chance for him or for them always missing him in their lives.

 

[wildcat03]

I don't know how they know this but his family said he died from the Delta variant. Perhaps because that is the main variant infecting people now? It is a crying shame. He was a good person. He loved Salsa dancing and he had such a kind spirit. I know this scenario is playing out all over. And the what ifs. If only he had gotten vaccinated.

Since Delta makes up about 90% of US infections it's a reasonable assumption. I also often ask the state to consider sequencing close interval reinfections to see if there's a variant involved.

sounds like quite a loss. Sigh:

 

[mrs-b]

Well, ok, so now I feel really stupid that people either didn't get my joke-meme, or got it and didn't think it was funny. Note to self - don't plop humor into the middle of serious topics!

(I still think it's a really good meme, tho.... Maybe it should have gone into the humor thread. Sorry folks!)

 

[pearlsngems]

I thought it was funny, @mrs-b. (Had to read it twice to catch it.)