A Thread for Those Caring for Aging Parents etc.

[tyty333]

Good points azstonie...things I never have thought about and should since my parents are getting older. I think they have enough money to take care
of themselves but then again, I guess one never knows.

 

[KaeKae]

I guess thats why they are seeing a lawyer...but I thought medicaid was for those who truly had nothing to their name. Didnt know that a husband could
move all the money into a trust so the wife than truly has nothing to her name. Sounds like its gaming the system. So who ends up with the money in
the end...the kids and grandkids? That doesnt sound right to me.

You are right, Medicaid IS for those with no money. Hiding it is wrong and unlawful, but at the same time, I do understand why it's hard to see it all go to nursing home care. It's just, HARD.

Still, I recently learned it can be better to go into a good nursing home before it's a last resort. My SIL's grandmother did so, while still having her own funds. She was able to be in her own private room (as opposed to the shared room my aunt has) and they were told that when the money ran out, she would still be able to stay in the private room, even if she went on Medicaid. Boy, would my aunt LOVE to have her own room.

 

[azstonie]

Lol, spend 48 hours in any kind of geriatric care outfit. You'd immediately forego inheritance in order to not get up every 2 hours through the night, or diaper an upset and crying adult.

 

[azstonie]

My situation with my parents is terrible and distressing for me. I think anyone who has a respectful relationship of mutual trust with their family can do things much differently than I have had to.

 

[Scandinavian]

@CJ2008 How about you borrow (and borrow and borrow and borrow) money from you parents? That way you can give it back to them later when they need it Sorry, no helpful suggestions. Hugs!

 

[tyty333]

Lol, spend 48 hours in any kind of geriatric care outfit. You'd immediately forego inheritance in order to not get up every 2 hours through the night, or diaper an upset and crying adult.

I had a good friend (a doctor) tell me to never make a promise to your parents "to keep them at home". Now he is having to stop his practice (he is semi
retired) to go up and help take care of his MIL in her home. Someone promised his MIL (or her DH) that they would never put her in a nursing home.
Now everyone's lives are being affected because they cant afford to stop working and take care of their Mom. Trying to keep a promise is causing burnout
and people to move states to help out. While it is admirable, sometimes I think it is better to find a nursing home that can take care of their special needs
(as you point out azstonie). Your job then becomes making sure that the nursing home is taking good care of them (still a big job and a lot of responsibility
IMO). Of course, all this depends on whether they have the money for a good/nice facility.

I'm taking that advise to heart. I will promise my parents that I will do my best to make sure they are taken well care of whether it be at home, in a
retirement home, or in a nursing home.

I take into account how I want to be treated and how much I expect to affect my kids lives in my older age. I dont want to be a burden to them.

 

[CJ2008]

CJ - it sounds like you might be talking about an elder abuse situation? That angle might be worth exploring, though I have no
Idea how you'd do that or where to start.

I have no way of knowing what their intentions are, you know? Only they know.

But from my perspective, what friend, what kind of person, would take/borrow money from someone in their 80s?

I mean I guess there COULD be situations where there is no bad intention.

But really? These are the ONLY people you could go to for money?

I guess I could wait the 3 months and see if they pay it back and go from there.

But that's why I was saying - maybe "exposing them" - making sure EVERYONE knows they've borrowed this money might be one way to help. They might feel embarrassed enough to either pay it back or never ask again.

Of course I also risk that my parents will get highly pissed off at me since I also know it's their $, their friends, and like none of my business if we look it at cold.

 

[CJ2008]

CJ, I really don’t have much to contribute, just wanted to say I’m sorry you’re dealing with this - your parents sound like nice and generous people who are just trying to help others. Unfortunately , that also makes them targets so I get why you’re concerned. How long ago was the money lent? You’re assuming they’re not going to pay it back but you don’t know for sure. I’m not sure you can force these people to pay it back anyway, I don’t know the legalities. If all of this was done verbally, there’s no proof it was a loan and these people could say it was a gift. You could talk to these people, or have a lawyer send a letter, but it depends on how involved you want to get. I don’t like the idea of older people being taken advantage of so I’d probably have a conversation with these people, if only to let them know you are aware of the situation. Who knows, maybe they’ll pay it back out of embarrassment. Your parents are the ones who should follow up but it doesn’t sound like they will.

I don’t think there’s much you can do to stop them from lending people money. They’re not mentally incompetent and it’s their money. You could try talking to them and stress that they will eventually need some savings for an emergency. Tell them it’s causing you a lot of worry and stress and life would be easier for everyone if they stopped doing it.

These are just random thoughts...again, sorry about all of this, this family stuff is hard. I understand not wanting to get involved but it sounds like you would have peace of mind if your parents agreed to stop giving their money away.

Thank you Juney.

I believe they lent the money about a month ago, and they're supposed to pay back in 3 months.

I could wait and see what happens.

Part of me thinks this might be a test. Ask for a small amount first, pay it back, and then ask for a more substantial amount.

Yeah I am definitely thinking the worst angles.

I keep saying it, but I just find it so appalling to ask for a couple in their 80s for money.

I do totally agree with you on everything you said - their money, and I can't force anything to happen. They've known - for decades now - my stance on them lending people money. So I am sure they would not agree to stop doing it. And even if they did, it would be short lived, until the next person that comes along and is in need.

 

[CJ2008]

My situation with my parents is terrible and distressing for me. I think anyone who has a respectful relationship of mutual trust with their family can do things much differently than I have had to.

Kristie sometimes mutual trust is not enough.

I trust my parents in that their INTENTIONS are good - they don't WANT to be a burden. If they ever borrowed money from me, they would WANT to pay it back.

But intentions are one thing and actions are another.

So while I am grateful that my parents are nice people - and perhaps I don't appreciate them enough - it doesn't change that when they make bad decisions those decisions have an impact on those around them the older they get.

I'm sorry that the two people in your life who should have you the least distress have caused you the most.

 

[CJ2008]

@CJ2008 How about you borrow (and borrow and borrow and borrow) money from you parents? That way you can give it back to them later when they need it Sorry, no helpful suggestions. Hugs!

Scandi!

I have thought of doing this believe it or not.

But I can't even bring myself to FAKE taking money from them. :/

But I should really revisit this idea.

((hugs))

 

[junebug17]

Thank you Juney.

I believe they lent the money about a month ago, and they're supposed to pay back in 3 months.

I could wait and see what happens.

Part of me thinks this might be a test. Ask for a small amount first, pay it back, and then ask for a more substantial amount.

Yeah I am definitely thinking the worst angles.

I keep saying it, but I just find it so appalling to ask for a couple in their 80s for money.

I do totally agree with you on everything you said - their money, and I can't force anything to happen. They've known - for decades now - my stance on them lending people money. So I am sure they would not agree to stop doing it. And even if they did, it would be short lived, until the next person that comes along and is in need.

I understand CJ - and you’re right, it is despicable to borrow money from people in their 80’s. IMO it says something about the character of these people and it’s not good. I can see why you are thinking the worst. Sending good thoughts that you come to a decision on how to handle this that helps you feel better about the situation. I really am sorry about all of this! (((Hugs)))

 

[KaeKae]

Oh the stress!
I my case, it's my aunt. My brother and I are her next of kin.

She is in a nursing home, but doesn't want to be there. In the meantime, on Saturday. my brother and I were supposed to take her from NJ to Brooklyn to attend the memorial of a childhood friend.

Long story, short, we didn't take her. She was sick, which turned out to be the flu, that turned into pneumonia and put her in the hospital Sunday morning. My brother is half a mile from her, I am 90 minutes away. By the time I got there, they were minutes away from intubating her. Then she opened her eyes and steadily improved from there. She moved up to CCU.

About 9pm, just as DH and I were pulling into our driveway, brother calls that he's on his way back to the hospital, Aunt is in bad shape again. By the time he got there, she's awake and talking.

Yesterday, she's telling me how crazy the hospital was at night, because there was a fire. Fire???? No. We realized that with her CO2 and oxygen levels being all over the place, she's hallucinating and that the hallucinations were related to what's on the tv. This time, This Is Us. (At first, I thought it was celebrations in Philly Other stories we've heard usually involve a restaurant. She's a big fan of Rachel Ray and the The Chew. )

But that has led us to a new understanding how we've been hearing such wild stories, often right before or after she gets sick, gets a uti, etc. Layman's terms, when she's gets sick, her body has a hard time regulating it's gasses and she gets so confused.

So, now she has to recover from the flu and pneumonia, so we can get her to a lung specialist. (what are they called?)

 

[missy]

Oh gosh I am sorry @KaeKae. It's a very difficult and stressful situation.
To answer your question-a Lung specialist is a pulmonologist.
I hope she recovers soon from the flu and the pneumonia and good luck finding a good pulmonologist who can help her.

Sending lots of good thoughts and healing vibes her way and hugs and strength to you. (((Hugs))).

 

[junebug17]

I'm sorry to hear about your aunt KaeKae, and I hope she starts feeling better soon. Illness can take a toll on an elderly person. It's great she has you and your brother to help her. Take care of yourself too, it's stressful dealing with doctors and keeping up with her treatment. I believe a lung specialist is called a pulmonologist.

 

[Calliecake]

KaeKae, I’m so sorry. It sounds like you are going thru a very stressful time. I hope your aunt recovers quickly. She is lucky she has you and your brother to help her.

 

[VRBeauty]

Hugs to you and your brother, KaeKae. It's not easy being the "on call" family for an elderly relative. But - congratulations for figuring out what causes her delusions. That knowledge should make future responses and decisions a bit easier!

 

[KaeKae]

Thank you so much for the support, Missy, Junebug, Calliecake and VRBeauty.
I think the stress has just been building and I needed to get it out.
I went to bed earlier than usual last night, which was good, but the dog got me up at 4:30, so she could pee and wander around the yard. Why, I don't know, it's cold out there!
And, of course, I went back to bed, but never really fell back to sleep. Fun, huh.
Thanks again.

 

[KaeKae]

So, Aunt had a great night's sleep, which is so important, she hardly slept the night before. Unfortunately, she woke up confused and upset. Didn't know where she is, why she was there. It was so bad, it upset the nurses, even. It took my brother 45 minutes on the phone to calm her down and explain what was going on , etc.
I'm guessing this isn't totally unusual, considering the circumstances, but wondering how we can help her get past this. Anyone know? Do we simply wait to see the pulmonologist (thank you, Missy, for that and saving me the steps to figure it out ) or talk to the social worker or seek out a psychologist?

 

[missy]

So, Aunt had a great night's sleep, which is so important, she hardly slept the night before. Unfortunately, she woke up confused and upset. Didn't know where she is, why she was there. It was so bad, it upset the nurses, even. It took my brother 45 minutes on the phone to calm her down and explain what was going on , etc.
I'm guessing this isn't totally unusual, considering the circumstances, but wondering how we can help her get past this. Anyone know? Do we simply wait to see the pulmonologist (thank you, Missy, for that and saving me the steps to figure it out ) or talk to the social worker or seek out a psychologist?

Aww I am so sorry KaeKae that is heartbreaking for sure. I think it is most likely (as you wrote) a symptom of her disease. Waking up disoriented and confused. But is she on any sleep medication? If she is on sleeping meds that could also be a contributor to her disorientation. Goodness knows those meds can do a number on us.

Yes I agree that it could be beneficial for the social worker or psychologist/psychiatrist to visit her and evaluate how she is doing. And how about her neurologist? Do her doctors know how she is doing and her most current state of mind and her distress levels?

How is she doing re her flu and pneumonia symptoms? Do you already have an appointment with the pulmonologist?

Again my heart goes out to you and your brother and your aunt is very fortunate you are both in her life. Hugs to all of you and sending good wishes your way.

 

[KaeKae]

All great questions, Missy, thank you. I will pass them to my brother, who is POA.

Her symptoms are slowly improving. She doesn't see a neurologist, that I know of, but I was there yesterday when the cardiologist came in. He told me that rest was most important and that her heart looks good (she has an artificial valve.) I didn't ask him about the confusion, but I thought that now that we were addressing her gasses, that we would hopefully be getting it under control for now. We have to talk with her doctors again. And with this weather, I'm not going down today, so it will be up to my brother.

Thanks again, it helps to be able to spell things out and get other peoples take on things.

 

[Maja]

I'm commenting without even having read through all the posts because I am so happy to have found this, I feel as if this is what I need to hear. This summer my DH and I sold our house and moved in with my parents who are in their 80s. A lot happened before that, and LOTS has happened since, but the difference is I am right here when it happens. My husband's transition was different from mine in that he had found a job already, and still has his golf buddies. I know it will be different when I'm working again, but right now I am just happy to be here, taking care of the cooking and some of the cleaning.

I'm the oldest of four, the oldest daughter. My next sib is a brother with tenure in New England, and his life is there with his wife. Next is my sister, in the same tri-state area as my folks and I, but her kids are still in HS and need to be driven, plus her husband is a doctor and can't pitch in with that. Youngest is a brother, also in same state as my parents, and about 40 minutes away, but he is really involved in his life, his wife has sisters nearby, his kids are in local colleges, his job is demanding, so realistically, I was the only one who was ready to dump my old life and pick up these new responsibilities.

Gotta run, but I'll be back again this evening to read your stories. Thanks for posting here, I really feel much less alone knowing that others are dealing with this type of situation. Big hugs to all of you and thanks for listening.

I lied when I said I'm just happy to be here, there have been moments when I thought I might just stick a fork in who ever was being the most horrible person. Only sometimes that person is me---.

 

[blueiris]

KaeKae,
I just found this revived thread and wanted to comment to you as we just went through something similar. My mom (90 y/o) was in the hospital for 10 days for pneumonia that also resulted in some heart failure (she has some COPD). She was very similar to your aunt, confused at times, hallucinating, etc. One day early in her stay she told all of us that she was taken somewhere in the hospital and shown dead people going down a chute. She had not watched any television so we assumed this hallucination was from her own fears of dying, perhaps. The intermittent confusion persisted most of the time she was in the hospital and was most definitely made worse by lack of sleep. The hospitalist ordered a psych consult and they determined her hallucinations and confusion were from the benzodiazepine drug she was taking - except, she is not on any benzo drugs! (We still have no idea if they confused another patient's chart with hers, or what happened with this!) So we disregarded their "professional" opinion on this and attributed it to hospital delusions (common, according to the nursing staff and brought on by lack of O2, lack of sleep, etc.). Upon discharge, she was completely back to herself and went to skilled nursing for a week to further recuperate. She still has some "crackly" sounds in her lungs and also suffers from a-fib, which has been less controlled since the pneumonia. One of my sisters has been there since before Christmas and is her primary help at home now, but we've also had home health and private caregivers (very $$) coming in to take some of the burdens off my sister and also to make sure someone is assessing my mom's health on an ongoing basis. Just yesterday she was back in a-fib with pulse rates swinging from the 40s to the 170s. Her internist put her on oxygen 24/7 for the time being and she will have a month-long Holter monitor to see if her pneumonia permanently changed anything for the worse with her heart.

I am glad to see this thread, though I'm sorry that others are dealing with problems, too. With family (sibling) relationships already complicated, my mom being sick has made things harder for everyone - stress levels through the roof at times. We're also dealing with this in my husband's family - both of his parents are now diagnosed with dementia (Alzheimer's for his mom, and a recent diagnosis of Lewy body dementia for his dad). They were resistant to help at first (like my mom, who gets really mad that there are people "watching her" and telling her what to do) but they are starting to come around and are now much more realistic that they can't stay alone in their home and can't drive. I have a feeling that the next few years will be rough ones for both of our families.

 

[junebug17]

Sending lots of support and comfort to you Maja, don't underestimate what you're doing - it'a a big responsiblitly and a lot of work. It's ok to admit feeling overwhelmed and stressed sometimes. You have sacrificed a lot. It was very brave of you to step up to the plate when nobody else was willing. My mother has since passed, but I spent 4 days a week at her house caring for her, I was relief for my brother, who was living with her. There were times I felt trapped. Not a pretty admission, but being a caregiver is hard sometimes. You are doing a wonderful thing by helping your parents but I know it's not always easy. I hope you are able to go out, just to go shopping or get a coffee or something. Being a full time caregiver can be isolating and it helps to do things that make you feel a little more connected to the outside world.

I'm wondering if there are things your siblings could do to help you out a little. I was in a similar boat though - my other two siblings live out of state and work, and I was right here and not working so I was the logical candidate I suppose.

 

[junebug17]

KaeKae,
I just found this revived thread and wanted to comment to you as we just went through something similar. My mom (90 y/o) was in the hospital for 10 days for pneumonia that also resulted in some heart failure (she has some COPD). She was very similar to your aunt, confused at times, hallucinating, etc. One day early in her stay she told all of us that she was taken somewhere in the hospital and shown dead people going down a chute. She had not watched any television so we assumed this hallucination was from her own fears of dying, perhaps. The intermittent confusion persisted most of the time she was in the hospital and was most definitely made worse by lack of sleep. The hospitalist ordered a psych consult and they determined her hallucinations and confusion were from the benzodiazepine drug she was taking - except, she is not on any benzo drugs! (We still have no idea if they confused another patient's chart with hers, or what happened with this!) So we disregarded their "professional" opinion on this and attributed it to hospital delusions (common, according to the nursing staff and brought on by lack of O2, lack of sleep, etc.). Upon discharge, she was completely back to herself and went to skilled nursing for a week to further recuperate. She still has some "crackly" sounds in her lungs and also suffers from a-fib, which has been less controlled since the pneumonia. One of my sisters has been there since before Christmas and is her primary help at home now, but we've also had home health and private caregivers (very $$) coming in to take some of the burdens off my sister and also to make sure someone is assessing my mom's health on an ongoing basis. Just yesterday she was back in a-fib with pulse rates swinging from the 40s to the 170s. Her internist put her on oxygen 24/7 for the time being and she will have a month-long Holter monitor to see if her pneumonia permanently changed anything for the worse with her heart.

I am glad to see this thread, though I'm sorry that others are dealing with problems, too. With family (sibling) relationships already complicated, my mom being sick has made things harder for everyone - stress levels through the roof at times. We're also dealing with this in my husband's family - both of his parents are now diagnosed with dementia (Alzheimer's for his mom, and a recent diagnosis of Lewy body dementia for his dad). They were resistant to help at first (like my mom, who gets really mad that there are people "watching her" and telling her what to do) but they are starting to come around and are now much more realistic that they can't stay alone in their home and can't drive. I have a feeling that the next few years will be rough ones for both of our families.

Blueiris, I empathize with all you're going through, I truly do. I'm sending lots of good thoughts to you and your family as you navigate your way through these issues with elderly parents. (((hugs))).

 

[whitewave]

It's called hospital induced delirium.

https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/when-patients-suddenly-become-confused

 

[KaeKae]

Maja, Blueiris and Junebug, thank you for sharing your stories and for the support.
Junebug, thank you for that article. I sent it to my brother and sil to read, too.

I was able to talk to her unit nurse, who told me that she HAS been seen by a pulmonologist. He is the doctor who is monitoring her breathing/COs/Oxygen issues and has ordered the treatments and steroids. My brother is POA, so he will follow up with him as needed.

Thanks again, everyone. I'm so relieved we can share this here. your knowledge and experiences are so valuable and appreciated.

 

[KaeKae]

I'll have to come back later. But, my brother just messaged me that they are releasing our aunt back to the nursing home. This, after she was crazy last night, fighting when they needed to give her insulin. Said they were out to get her. The doctor thinks she is stable enough and it will be better for her emotionally to go back where it's familiar.

The hospital is also so overrun with flu patients, they are about to rearrange things so that one floor is dedicated to just the flu. I can't help but worry they are moving her out because the demand for rooms is so big.

One thing I did think was that since they now claim she isn't contagious, herself that getting her away from other flu patients, could, theoretically, be safer from being exposed to anther strain of flu.

 

[junebug17]

Sending good thoughts to your aunt KaeKae, hopefully this confusion will clear up once she's back in familiar surroundings. Hugs to you too, this has been stressful for you as well.

 

[blueiris]

Blueiris, I empathize with all you're going through, I truly do. I'm sending lots of good thoughts to you and your family as you navigate your way through these issues with elderly parents. (((hugs))).

junebug17, thank you for your kind words. I truly appreciate your caring and good thoughts. I haven't had time yet to read this entire thread but already it has helped to know that others understand.

whitewave, thank you for the article on hospital delirium. That is the exact term the nursing staff used and I couldn't remember it!

KaeKae, I'm sorry to hear the latest with your aunt - and again, another similarity with my mom, who kicked and fought when they were trying to put a bi-pap machine on her. All that was documented in her chart, of course, and then we were required to have 24-hour supervision for her when she went to skilled nursing, in case she got "violent" again. She was completely out of it when they were trying to put the bi-pap on her, and she doesn't remember it at all (she doesn't remember most of the hospital stay) and when she found out about her "outburst" she was very upset that they would think she was a violent person (she is not, at all!). I hope the doctor is correct and that your aunt will feel more comfortable in familiar surroundings. And I agree with your thought that it could help lessen contagion. One regional hospital near me is asking relatives and friends of hospital patients not to visit because they want to limit the exposure to inpatients already struggling with flu/pneumonia. I hope your aunt continues to improve - I'm thinking of her (and of you and your brother).

 

[missy]

@blueiris I am sending you and your family good thoughts and healing dust. Such a challenging time for you and your mom and your whole family is so lucky to have you. You are a strong person and doing all you can at such a difficult time.(((HUGS))).

@KaeKae hoping your aunt does better in a healthier environment and sending you both more good wishes and keeping you in my thoughts. Definitely a plus IMO for her to be leaving the hospital. I remember my doctor told me emphatically get out of the hospital as soon as you can. Healthier for her and you. Hugs and hang in there. We are all sending you so many good thoughts and healing vibes.