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About to pull the trigger - Thoughts on this Cushion?

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thenextsurprise

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 28, 2008
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Hey all - so i met with Mark T today and I''m about to pull the trigger on the stone below, but just wanted to see what everyone else in here thinks! Sometimes a huge decision like this can be aided by the positive reassurances of others. And by all means, if you see any reason for me to keep looking, please speak up. Thanks in advance!!!


Budget: $6500/ This stone priced at $5900


Cushion Brilliant (Note in the picture there are 8 Facets, Not 4 - Mark claims this to be a rarity)
Measurements: 6.30 x 6.19 x 4.26
Carat: 1.15
Color: F
Clarity: VS2
Polish: VG
Symmetry: Good
Flourescence: None
Table: 58%
Depth: 68.8%

It looked great in person.... just thought i would gauge some opinions here :)



ring_gg.jpg
 
Nothing that screams "red flag" but as you know cushions can't be bought by paper alone. That being said Mark is fabulous and if he picked it I don't doubt it is beautiful. He picked mine too and we couldn't be happier with it. I believe your stone has the same plot as mine and might even be from the same cutting house and mine is gorgeous!
 
It was really difficult to see the feather. I couldnt even spot it with the loupe, and Mark couldnt either. Pardon my ignorance, but can you clarify what you mean by plot? It was pretty stunning in person, but he showed me 5 stones and they all seemed nice. What stood this one apart was the 8 facet cut. My only reservation is somewhat the 1:1 ratio... not sure why, but just had in my mind more of a rectangular shape. she prefers the legacy style bezel setting. do you think it will still look ok?
 
Date: 12/3/2008 6:03:47 PM
Author: thenextsurprise
It was really difficult to see the feather. I couldnt even spot it with the loupe, and Mark couldnt either. Pardon my ignorance, but can you clarify what you mean by plot? It was pretty stunning in person, but he showed me 5 stones and they all seemed nice. What stood this one apart was the 8 facet cut. My only reservation is somewhat the 1:1 ratio... not sure why, but just had in my mind more of a rectangular shape. she prefers the legacy style bezel setting. do you think it will still look ok?
Click to expand...

Have you seen my ring? It''s similar to the legacy bezel ring and I looove it. Mine is a bit more rectangular, but I think it''ll be stunning with a slightly more square stone. Mark made my ring too.

And by "plot" I mean the facet plot. Mine is an 8 pav cushion too.
 
i see it in your profile picture... do you have more in another thread? if so please link :)
 
Date: 12/3/2008 6:16:53 PM
Author: thenextsurprise
i see it in your profile picture... do you have more in another thread? if so please link :)
Click to expand...

I do...I''ll find it for you...
 
Thanks - It looks wonderful. I am thinking about getting it set in plain white gold for the engagement. Then involving her in the setting process. I really think she will enjoy getting design EXACTLY what she wants - even though she has indicated liking the legacy style. So this way she gets the surprise, and total ownership in the final look.

Can i take a poll - would you prefer to be proposed to with a final, realized ring and setting?

Or would you prefer to get the rock, and then the additional surprise that you get to go in and customize it exactly how you want?

I want there to be some element of surprise, which is why we arent going through the whole design song and dance beforehand right now.
 
Date: 12/3/2008 6:30:58 PM
Author: thenextsurprise
Thanks - It looks wonderful. I am thinking about getting it set in plain white gold for the engagement. Then involving her in the setting process. I really think she will enjoy getting design EXACTLY what she wants - even though she has indicated liking the legacy style. So this way she gets the surprise, and total ownership in the final look.


Can i take a poll - would you prefer to be proposed to with a final, realized ring and setting?


Or would you prefer to get the rock, and then the additional surprise that you get to go in and customize it exactly how you want?


I want there to be some element of surprise, which is why we arent going through the whole design song and dance beforehand right now.
Click to expand...

If you know exactly what she wants, I''d prefer to be proposed to with the exact ring. If you are unsure or she likes a number of different styles, then it would be fun for her to help design it herself I''m sure. But she will need to part with it for a few weeks while it''s being made, so that''s something to consider.
 
My diamond is from Mark and has the exact same plot as your diamond. In fact, goobear''s diamond also has the same plot and it is also from Mark.

If you don''t request a chunky cushion and want 8 mains, I find Mark usually gets a diamond with that plot.
 
Could someone please provide more information on the difference between the 8 and 4 facets mentioned above. What are the pros and cons of each? Thanks in advance for the help.
 
this looks like a nice stone but it is not rare
 
The Legacy is squarish, not rectangular.
 
I think a rectangular stone will change the appearance of the Tiffany Legacy.

I tend to agree with bgray that a 8 main is not as rare as Mark puts it. I don't think it is a needle in a haystick .... maybe a grapefruit in a hay stack. Just need to know where to look. I know a vendor where many of his cushions carry the plot above. There are other eight main pavillion plots that are much more rare - I wonder if Mark knows the difference and is just not educating his customers on it.
 

CharmyPoo...you mention that 8 mains are not as rare as some people portray. Would you mind sharing where to look for these cushion cuts?

 
Date: 12/5/2008 12:07:45 AM
Author: CharmyPoo
I think a rectangular stone will change the appearance of the Tiffany Legacy.


I tend to agree with bgray that a 8 main is not as rare as Mark puts it. I don''t think it is a needle in a haystick .... maybe a grapefruit in a hay stack. Just need to know where to look. I know a vendor where many of his cushions carry the plot above. There are other eight main pavillion plots that are much more rare - I wonder if Mark knows the difference and is just not educating his customers on it.
Click to expand...

I think Mark just means that most cushions on the market are not 8-pav, which I tend to agree with if you consider most of the crappy cushions you see elsewhere which seem to mostly be 4pav. Once you narrow to nicer stones I don''t think they are nearly as rare.
 
Date: 12/11/2008 6:42:13 PM
Author: ponch312


CharmyPoo...you mention that 8 mains are not as rare as some people portray. Would you mind sharing where to look for these cushion cuts?

Click to expand...

Best way is to just work with a good vendor like Mark at ERD or Jon at GOG and tell them that''s what you want. Otherwise you just need to look at the GIA certificates and the plots.
 
Those rotated 8 main ex/ex moderns are not rare, there are a few large sightholders that make them consistently. Mark is right about the traditional 8 main high crown cushion, they are hard to find, particularly when cut well.
 
Date: 12/11/2008 8:16:31 PM
Author: elmo
Those rotated 8 main ex/ex moderns are not rare, there are a few large sightholders that make them consistently. Mark is right about the traditional 8 main high crown cushion, they are hard to find, particularly when cut well.
Click to expand...
You are right - if you know where to look, they are consistently cut. It is a shame because as a newbie - the difference with the rotated 8 main was not mentioned to me and I didn''t know any better. However, the rotated 8 mains still can have a high crown and very pillowy look. They don''t look chunky but more chunky than many of the 4 main and they have a lot of fire and sparkle.
 
Elmo & Charmy,

As a newbie, I guess I don''t understand what the difference is between a traditional 8 and rotated 8. Do you have any diagrams to illustrate the difference? Ultimately, which of these cuts typically produce the most brilliance and fire?
 
I pulled this together a few months ago showing the different plots and examples of the diamonds. There are more plot patterns that I haven't included. All of them are beautiful in their own way and it is just what you like better. The modern cushions can rival the brillance and sparkle in round brillants so it is a good option for people who want round brillant performance in a cushion shape. The chunky cushions are so beautiful in their own - I have changed my preference over the months. When we worked with Mark ... the prices go in order of Chunky Cushion > 8 Main Modern Brillant > 4 Main Brillant > Modified Brillant.

Here is another example of a traditional 8 main diamond - https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/finally-a-chunky-cushion.98750/. This one has a plot like the first one below.

8Main-1.jpg
 
These are the ones we are referring to as the rotated plot. If you look at the top view, you can see it is different from the second one on top from EDL.

8Main-2.jpg
 
This is a better picture of what the Tiffany Novo cushion looks like.

TiffanyNovo-FrontFace.jpg
 
Date: 12/11/2008 11:39:09 PM
Author: CharmyPoo
the prices go in order of Chunky Cushion > 8 Main Modern Brillant > 4 Main Brillant > Modified Brillant
Click to expand...
My experience a year ago was that the ex/ex moderns were most expensive selling very roughly at 10-15 back, the chunky 8 main stones were next and in a broader range, something like 15-25 back for good ones. There were also 8 main moderns not ex/ex and not cut as well with not as nice optical symmetry as the "Daniel K"-type stones in a big range that could occasionally be found as much as 30-35 back (like the other styles). (Edit - most expensive are the square H&A stones, but they're really a niche sort of thing.)

Ponch they just look different. What I like about the chunky stones is that when cut well they have a lot of presence - Garry Holloway calls then "big reflectors"
1.gif
- they really pop and have lots of fire. They also have super contrast which is what I like the best about them. The downside is that big reflectors can also show a big bow tie. Another downside is that they're very hard to find well cut. The moderns are easier to find, often have straighter sides which some folks prefer for the outline, and have more uniform light return. Not crushed ice and no bow tie, but not as much presence and pop as the old style cushions.
 
This is probably a stupid question but what does 10-15 back mean?
 
Date: 12/12/2008 10:22:47 AM
Author: CharmyPoo
what does 10-15 back mean?
Click to expand...
10 to 15% less than Rapaport list price for the size color and clarity. Not that Rapaport is important to the discussion but it illustrates different discount levels which is relevant. These numbers are rough and just my experience shopping and learning.
 
Revised

Square H&A > 8 Main Ex/Ex Modern Brillant > 8 Main Chunky Cushion > 8 Main Average Modern Brillant > 4 Main Brillant > Modified Brillant

ETA: If I recall correctly, MsMisty and DC888 examples above are both Ex/Ex modern brillants.
 
1.gif
don''t do it just because I said so! Important to remember that it''s just a generalization with lots of overlap; and there are other reasons why a particular stone may cost more or less than another one.
 
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