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I''m sorry but IMHO I would run the other direction from this guy.That nagging feeling your having is called intuition. He has apologized and you still feel he''s being manipulative because he probably is.Do yourself a favor and really analyze this before you truly commit to this man.
 
It''s a total dealbreaker honey. He lied, hid emails from you, and essentially professed his love for a girl he is supposedly totally over and you''re even questioning things?

You are ASKING to get cheated on in the future if you stay with this guy IMO.
 
Hi Hellosydney,

I''m with the ladies here who think that this is a dealBREAKER, not just a bump in the road.
I understand that your guy is a nice guy who felt obligated to respond to her email, but to send a YouTube link to a song that reminds him of her???
That''s taking it too far.

Mistakes happen but with the incident with the girl in CA and now this ex...I don''t know, he sounds like he may be insecure and need/crave attention from women?

I hope you''re happy with whatever you decide to do and just know that there is a lovely community here that you can talk to!
 
sorry you are going through this syd...with that said...i''d be out of there...he''ll pulled 1 over on you..1 too many times and he''ll keep doing it----he''s sorry....sorry he got caught...........don''t fall for the crocodile tears and roses because if you do he WILL do it again and maybe next time you won''t be lucky enough to find out.

fool me once shame on you....fool me twice shame on me
 
Although I agree with the others that this is a pretty huge issue, I think the bigger issue is that he lied to you and hide things from you, and not necessarily what he said. His ex basically stated that he is often on her mind, and she respect him and their past relationship a lot. I don't think that's so unordinary. People often hold their first crush or love in high regards, especially if it was a good relationship and if you have many found memories. That doesn't mean she is still in love with him, or wants to be with him again.

He replied to her email that he felt the same - I took that to mean he respects her back, and has good memories of her as well. He also did say specifically that given his current situation, he can't talk to her anymore. If he was going to cheat, I think his email would read very differently... For example, he may have said they should try and hide the correspondences if he wanted to cheat or stay in communication.

The part about contacting her in future if things change is the worse part - since that implies he doesn't know for sure if things will last with his current gf (the OP). That part would have pissed me off the most... Especially since they are talking marriage.

Anyway - I guess I think this is a huge issue, and I am not entirely sure you can trust him. I also think that given the fact that he lied to you in the past about another woman, this is a bad bad trend.
 
Date: 11/28/2009 2:47:37 PM
Author: neatfreak
It''s a total dealbreaker honey. He lied, hid emails from you, and essentially professed his love for a girl he is supposedly totally over and you''re even questioning things?


You are ASKING to get cheated on in the future if you stay with this guy IMO.

First, I''m so sorry that you''re going through this! HUGS!!

I''m sorry to say it, but I have to agree with neatfreak and all of the other ladies who think that this is a dealbreaker. I think that the only reason why he hasn''t cheated with her yet is because you found out. Why else would he forward her email to his other account, send her love songs, and tell her that he still has feelings for her?

I would maybe give him the benefit of the doubt if this were the first time this happened, but it''s not. The fact that this has happened before with the online girl shows that he has a tendency to commit emotional infidelity. While he hasn''t physically done anything, the fact that he cares about these girls enough to send them flowers or love songs means that he doesn''t care about you as much as you deserved to be cared about. If he did, he wouldn''t be trying to woo other girls.

I know that it is difficult to end a 4.5 year relationship, but I think that you will be saving yourself a lot of future heartaches this way. You know what they say, old habits die hard. A guy who''s already done this twice is more than likely to do it again in the future. Besides, who knows how many other girls he''s secretly pursued from the time online girl happened and this last episode with his ex?

You deserve much better than him, honey. Good luck!
 
Dealbreaker in my book.

You don''t send emails like that if you are really in love with your current partner.

I''m still in touch with several of my exes and NEVER have conversations that come anywhere near what your boyfriend wrote. Do not walk but RUN from this relationship.

Believe me there are times in a marriage when external pressures will make life tough.

I have a 6 month old baby and so constant sleep deprivation, rarely a minute to myself, most of my clothes are covered in spit-up within minutes of putting them on and can''t remember where my make-up is... as a result I can be less than the nicest person to live with: I''m irritable, short-tempered and liable to burst into tears all the time. I was NEVER like this before the baby arrived. Through it all, my husband is a total rock and I know that I can rely on and trust him 150%.
The thought of being with someone who I didn''t trust or who would potentially screw with my mind - especially at a time when I feel less than desirable and my idea of ''fun in bed'' is sleeping - would just terrify me.

Could you count on this guy to stand by you and trust him 150%, or are you going to be worrying that he''s chatting up the ex or some other girl?
 
I''m sorry but all of his actions of trying to make up for his mistakes don''t cut it. I say run away from the slimeball.
 
What's especially interesting to me is the timeline. You said that the initial contact had been made by her over the summer, and the last email that he sent to her was three weeks ago. So he had SEVERAL MONTHS so think about what his ex contacting him again after all this time really means (on the ex's end), and additionally had three weeks to mull over what a terrible decision it was to write an email that he should have immediately recognized as immensely hurtful to you. However, it took you finding out for him to finally feel guilty and figure out that it was the "biggest mistake of his life." If he had felt bad immediately, and fessed up to you immediately, I might have more sympathy for him. But he sat on this for THREE WEEKS until you finally found out. He had PLENTY of time to analyze the situation and realize how wrong it was, both to you and his ex. I say the ex because, from his email, it sounded like he was giving her hope. He's basically telling her that she should stick around for a while to see if it works out between you and him which isn't fair to her if she still has feelings for him. So he's either playing games with her, or with you, or with both of you. How long would this have gone on if you hadn't found out? How many more emails would have been exchanged? How long before he decided that he wanted his "current situation" to change?

Another thing I found interesting was that from what the ex wrote, she never explicitly stated that she was hoping that there could be something between them again. Perhaps you could read between the lines and say that's what she was getting at, but she never actually said it. However, it seems that your SO did read between the lines, and HE took it that extra step, saying that if his "current situation" were to change, he would contact her. Contact her for what? Friendship? If that's what he wanted, he could do that right now, especially as you said you would be fine if he kept in touch casually with his ex. If he had really just been flattered by her email and wanted to reciprocate her sentiments, he could have said any number of nice, benign things - things that COULD NOT have been taken the wrong way by either you or his ex. "Thanks for your email, I'm glad you're doing well and I'll always think of you and our time together fondly" is appropriate. "You are never far from my thoughts" is not. Basically, he told her he thinks about her all the time, WHILE HE IS IN A RELATIONSHIP WITH YOU. And by saying he "felt the same" about everything that she said to him, he essentially told her that she was his GREATEST love! That is what really jumps out at me. Those are NOT words that can be said lightly, or words that someone would say just to "reciprocate." If he told her that she is his greatest love, then what does that make YOU? He knew exactly what he was writing and exactly what he was saying, and he knew it for three long weeks. He had three weeks to send her an email explaining that he didn't really mean what he said. But he didn't send it until his hand was forced.

When it all comes down to it, that nagging feeling that you have right now is probably never going to go away. You're always going to wonder if it's really you that he wants to be with. You'll always wonder if he's thinking about someone else when he's with you. If he starts talking about a woman at work, your stomach is going to tighten, and you'll wonder if this is the woman who is finally going to take him away from you. That is no way to live, and to echo other comments made here - you deserve better. You deserve someone who would never even THINK about hurting you in this way. You deserve someone who loves you so much and is so wholeheartedly devoted to you that the mere thought of leading on another woman is completely repugnant to him. You deserve someone who could not even fathom the thought of his "situation" with you changing. You deserve faithful, unwavering, honest, forever love. You don't deserve deception, manipulation and a man who feels like he is obligated to "reciprocate" when other women send him overtures.
 
I don''t know whom to quote first, LilyFoot or BlueBerryDot ... so I''m just going to ditto both of them.

This dude has a pattern of dishonesty and prioritizing the feelings of women not his girlfriend (i.e., you). He needs to get into therapy and change his ways ... but you do not need to be around as his "backup" while he figures that out.

I know when you''re in a relationship, you *want* to forgive, and you *want* to give the benefit of the doubt, but I''m sure you didn''t just post here to vent, but to see if your feelings were rational or not. You are *totally* right to feel doubt about this one. I hope you follow your head *and* your heart on this.
 
Date: 11/28/2009 2:47:37 PM
Author: neatfreak
It's a total dealbreaker honey. He lied, hid emails from you, and essentially professed his love for a girl he is supposedly totally over and you're even questioning things?


You are ASKING to get cheated on in the future if you stay with this guy IMO.

She hit the nail on the head here. I'm so sorry you've had to deal with this but it's honestly better than a divorce several children later.

I was married to a man who's head would remind you of Linda Blair in the Exorcist if an attractive woman so much as sneezed in his direction. I was also engaged to a guy who had issues that were total deal breakers for me (and cheating was not even on the scope). It hurt like hell to break up with both of them, especially the ex-husband with all I had invested (children, home, family, a total of 20 years), but I play second fiddle to no one. I understand what it feels like to have a bomb dropped on you, and I'm sure he's going to say whatever it takes to hold onto you at this point, but trust me - if he can say what he said and grandstand in an attempt to make you think he deleted that email, all it would take during a marriage to him is the opportunity to have a conquest on the sly and his pants would be off faster than you could say divorce.

As much as it hurts, I'd run.
 
This wasn''t just a weak moment, it was premeditated deception. I would move onward and upward. You deserve someone who loves you, and only you. I don''t think he understands what real love is. He needs serious counseling to find out why he acts like this, and that will only happen if he truly wants to change. Flowers and tears don''t have anything to do with wanting to be a better person; he is only trying to get out of the doghouse and neutralize his guilty feelings. Good luck to you.
 
I have to agree with all the folks above.

Your BF didn''t just "respond" to this woman, he actively and knowingly participated in an email flirtation and was entirely deceitful about it.

A correct response would have been "I''m getting engaged, thanks for the lovely words, have a great life, bye." Instead he played along, strung her along and played you for a fool.

His tears are not because he "made a mistake", but because he got caught. Big difference there. A mistake is when you turn left meaning to turn right. Actively engaging another woman with romantic words and thoughts is a deliberate act. It''s not a "mistake".

Please, do yourself a favor and send him off. He has a back up plan and you should insist he uses it.

Sorry to be so harsh, but this is NOT the behavior of a man ready to marry.

Good luck.
 
Date: 11/27/2009 5:47:54 PM
Author: lilyfoot
I do not think it''s a relationship changer, I think it''s a relationship BREAKER.

Why would you want to be with someone who can so blatantly lie to your face, deceive you, disrespect you AND who admits he continues to think about his ex 5 years after they''ve broken up even though he''s in a relationship WITH YOU?

There is no excuse for that. And your update says he sent flowers and a teddy girl to some other girl prior in your relationship?

How many times will he have to show you his true colors before you see him for what he really is?

I''m sorry if this post seems harsh but honestly, these types of posts piss me off. Please believe me, there is a guy out there that would never treat you like this. You deserve to be somones ''great love'', to be the person they think about day and night. Nobody deserves this crappy treatment.

I''d let him go back to his ex. Good riddance
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Date: 11/27/2009 7:54:59 PM
Author: hellosydney
Hi ladies, I really appreciate the words and the support. It''s been a rough couple of days for sure. When I confronted him about the content of the last email to his ex (where he says he still thinks about her often), he broke down and said he never meant it at all. He said he had a severe lapse in judgment and because she''d said all those wonderful things about him (the first love, the benchmark against which all other men would be measured, etc.), he was really flattered and felt obligated to reciprocate. I told him the part about his ''situation changing'' especially hurt because, um, was he waiting for us to break up so he could be with her? Again, he cried and he apologized and said that he planned on marrying me and he never expects his situation to change -- ever.

He called me from work this morning crying because of how scared he was that he might lose me over this. His mom called and said that he had phoned her in tears, as well, saying that he had made the biggest mistake of his life. He also had roses delivered to my office. He also showed me a follow-up email he''d sent to his ex-girlfriend earlier today. It read something like, ''I''m sorry, I may have said some things that were misleading. I was projecting feelings that I really wasn''t feeling because of all the things you''d said to me and I wanted very much to be the ''nice guy''. The truth is that I''m in a wonderful relationship with a girl named Sydney and I intend on marrying her. If it came across that she was the reason we weren''t in touch, I apologize because it''s not true. I''m just not interested.''

I''ll be honest, it did make me feel better and it almost seems as though things will be okay... but I can''t help but feel a nagging still that he''s somehow being manipulative? I don''t know... I just feel so confused.

Also, on a bit of a lighter note, I''m mildly irritated because I''ve been doing the 30 Day Shred and have been really good with keeping up with it (even while home sick!) but when I saw that email, I lost all focus and motivation and now it''s been two days and I''m not happy about it!
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This is manipulation. I once dated a guy who did similar things to me but had no real intent to change. It was hard breaking up with him, but looking back I am so glad I did.

I also agree with Italia - relationships are built on trust. If you don''t have trust then you don''t have anything. From what you''ve posted here it looks like you''ve lost the trust in this relationship. I''d start packing and moving on to better things. It won''t be easy but you can do it. I wish you the best of luck.
 
Date: 11/28/2009 2:47:37 PM
Author: neatfreak
It''s a total dealbreaker honey. He lied, hid emails from you, and essentially professed his love for a girl he is supposedly totally over and you''re even questioning things?

You are ASKING to get cheated on in the future if you stay with this guy IMO.
Huge ditto. What he did is essentially cheating in my books. I wouldn''t even ask for an explanation, I''d be out the door.
 
Thank you all so much for all your advice and insights. It was definitely something that helped during those sleepless nights. He and I spent the last two days talking and crying and he packed up all his stuff and left this morning. He says he knows he screwed up big time and that he might have a problem with always wanting the attention/approval of other people, ie. be the "nice guy" and not disappoint. He says he''s going to get professional help for this and hope that at some point, I will be able to forgive him and maybe we can try again.

I''m just so scared what my parents are going to say. I left my ex-boyfriend (someone my parents loved and adored and was totally perfect husband material) for this guy. Despite not liking my decision, my parents supported it. The house we lived in was a gift from them for our future. They are going to be so disappointed (in me) when they find out.

It''s just so heartbreaking because I just went from having what I thought was a loving, wonderful boyfriend with a trip to the Bahamas in January and *possibly* a proposal to being alone, having my parents very upset with me (they''re going to be irrational like that), and spending Christmas by myself. This really, really, really sucks, you guys. I think I''m going to go and cry for a while now.
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Thank you all for listening and for your support. Oh, and I guess I should be removed from the LIW list, too.
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Sydney I know this is hard but you did the right thing!!! I am sure that if you sit your parents down and tell them what happened they will see where you were coming from and support you.

Staying with him was just a ticking time bomb-not someone you want to be married to with 3 kids!
 
Your parents gave *you* a house for your future. Your parents want the *best possible* future for you. Even if they kick and fuss and second-guess your decision, they''re your parents, and they love you, and they''ll come around. The important thing here, for them, and for you, is your happiness ... and you''ll be a lot happier without the looming spectre of dishonesty, mistrust, and infidelity.

I know this is going to be a really hard time for you, and I am so sorry. But for whatever its worth, this stranger on the internet thinks you did the right thing.
 
Be strong......I know it''s hard. You deserve better.......hugs x
 
Sydney sweetheart, what an awful time you are having. Wish I could give you a big hug, let you cry on my shoulder and then take you out for coffee or for your favourite meal. You need some extra kindnesses to be shown to you right now because you have been so incredibly strong and followed your gut. Sadly it told things that mean heartbreak, sadness and loneliness in the short term, but ultimately mean you will be free to find someone who is proud to tell anyone and everyone how much you mean to him and who will be 100% dedicated to you and your future together. That sucks that your parents will act in an irrational way at first, but hopefully that is only their way of being upset on your behalf, and not with you because of anything you''ve done. When the guy isn''t right, there''s no use staying with him, whether Mom & Dad love him or not.

My heart is aching for you, sweetie, but there is no doubt (in my opinion) that you absolutely did the right thing. Keep your head up, be kind to yourself, and hopefully soon things will start looking up.
 
If I were your mom I''d be disappointed if you stayed with him. And I''m sure your parents will feel the same way when they hear the story. Stay strong.
 
Aw, Sydney, that's awful. Until your last post, I was going to say give him some more time and the benefit of the doubt, take the Bahamas trip and see what happens. You've invested 4.5 years, so what's another month or so. To me, his reply to the ex girlfriend sounded so much like a kiss-off, like a "Don't call us, we'll call you." If anything, I just thought he was handling his ex in a really stupid way. He hadn't actually proposed to you yet, had he? and maybe he was just having some doubts, or he took another look at the ex while it was still "legal" to do so, and decided that she was not worth rekindling a romance with. I'm not saying be a doormat, but sometimes mistakes happen and you just have to try to overlook it and move on.

I'm older, and I'm used to people who have had past marriages, or still have contact with exes because of children and family obligations, etc. If he really loves you and wants to be with you, he will figure that out and be back. And then it's your prerogative to say "No, I've thought it over and don't think you are right for me." That's something that only you can decide.

In the meantime, move on with your life and make plans as if he's history. Just because it didn't work with that guy doesn't mean that you have to put life on hold. Put your best game face on, and move on. After all, you can't be certain when you might meet the guy you marry, so keep a positive mindset. I think you've handled a bad situation and all the emotional turmoil in a very mature and sensible way.
 
Date: 11/29/2009 3:23:14 PM
Author: lulu
If I were your mom I'd be disappointed if you stayed with him. And I'm sure your parents will feel the same way when they hear the story. Stay strong.

Ditto.

He cheated on you. Physically, maybe not, but emotionally ABSOLUTELY. You don't have to tell you parents all the details if you'd rather not, but I would certainly let them know that there was unfaithfulness on his part. I can't imagine ANY parent would be disappointed to hear their daughter had left a cheating man before being trapped into a marriage with him.

You'll look back on this one day and realise it was the best decision you ever made. I promise.
 
I''m glad you made the right decision. You are better off without him. Best of luck.
 
VERY GOOD DECISION!!!

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do not get back together with him.
 
Sydney--I''m so sorry things turned out like this, but I wanted to say that I think you made the right decision, and I hope you find a man who treats you with respect and love.

It sounds like you dodged a huge bullet, here. Your ex sounds like he has a problem with boundaries. My father has the same problem, yet my mother stuck with him and is now a newly-divorced 53-year-old woman. Men with issues maintaining appropriate relationships with women outside of the relationship do exactly as your ex did, and they end up hurting their SO over and over again until the SO says "ENOUGH!" and gets herself out of the relationship.

I''m so proud of you for sticking up for yourself, and demanding more from a man. Please come back and tell us how you''re doing!
 
Sydney, what a horrible thing for him to do, and the aftermath, well ditto to whomever callled it manipulation.

Your parents, if they''re rational people, will want the best for you and it sounds like he is most certainly not it. I hope you find support in them, but if not look within, and be proud for not accepting such horrid behavior from anyone who claims to love you.
 
I think you''re very brave, and am proud of you. Breakups are gutwrenching, but when you''ve healed, you''ll really thank yourself for staying strong. I, like you, had a holiday planned with my ex-husband. When he left me, I took the around the world trip by myself and spent the time soul searching. It was invigorating and mentally/emotionally healthy -- I think if you go into your solo trip with the right outlook (and try to not think about how you thought it was going to go), it could be really good for you.

I hope your healing process is as speedy as possible. If you need support, make sure to post. There are a LOT of wonderful women on here who will remind you what kind of a man you deserve!
 
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