shape
carat
color
clarity

advice please

newtothisHELP

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 8, 2013
Messages
11
I have been looking pretty hard for an engagement ring for my girlfriend and I think I have educated myself reasonably well.

It seems as though every person I talk to has a "guy" that I have to see. So I have seen a few diamond dealers and looked at numerous diamonds that fit my budget and needs. I was looking for a 1.5+ carat round diamond in a solitaire setting. Frankly, I didnt want to pay for any quality that i could not be discerned with the naked eye. So I had figured that I would look for something in the range of very good cut, H or G color, and SI1 clarity. I found that for GIA certified diamonds I was looking at 9-10k in cost.

I was close to buying on from a dealer that I really liked. It was loose with no setting and cost 9300. Before I did so, I could not resist going into a Zales and seeing what their less expensive diamonds look like. They had their signature collection which I was not interested in b/c the prices were the same if not more as the dealer. They also had about 10 of diamonds in the 1.55-1.8 carat range in their regular collection. 8 or 9 of them were so cloudy that I didnt even bother to look at them. But there was one in particular that caught my eye.

It was a 1.65 carat round diamond with G color, a very good cut, very good polish, and I1 clarity. These are all GSL ratings so I know not to trust them much, but the diamond really did pass the eye test. There were two tiny inclusions, one is visible from the side and one from the top. However, they are only noticeable when you hold the diamond within 6 inches of your eye. From 12 inches or further away (which is how people will view it) you could not see them whatsoever.

The ring was priced at $8800 which included a 4 prong 14k white gold setting that just happened to be almost exactly what I was looking for. I ended up haggling down to $7200 plus another 10% off for opening a store credit card. So $6500 all in which to me is a phenomenal deal for a 1.6 carat diamond that sparkles nicely and has no warmth to its color really.

For some reason though I keep second guessing myself. I have 30 days to return and I am wondering if I shouldve paid the extra 3-4k to a dealer for a diamond that doesnt have that one tiny inclusion.

Opinions please. Thanks all.

Picture attached.

img_20130107_0.jpg
 
PS. thats a cell phone camera picture so while even the picutre looks good to my uneducated diamond eye, it does sparkle a bit more in person.

also i really liked the size of the diamond. the picture of it is on my pinky. I am 6'2' 250 and have large hands so even my pinky is a bit bigger than her ring finger, I think it will look really nice on her.
 
We should wait for the more experienced posters, but I'll chime in with my 2 cents: based on lurking extensively here, the experienced Pricescopers will likely tell you that you can get far more bang for your buck in terms of cut, color & clarity at one of the Pricescope preferred venders. I know, I did!!! I initially bought from a B&M vender, but returned due to quality & purchased from Whiteflash for less $$, gaining cut color & clarity!!!

Everyone here refers to Mall Jewelers as Maul stores, so sit & wait for some responses, they will arrive shortly. But don't pull the trigger at Zales, that is for sure!!

Best of luck on your search!! Relax, ordering a diamond online is easy when you have the experienced posters helping you out. My ring rocks! (IMHO)
sarahb
 
We really can't tell anything from the photos that you posted, so apologies for that. What I would say that is that I completely agree that you shouldn't pay a premium for an aspect that you can't visually appreciate. It's very possible to sacrifice color and clarity to some extent, but I would strongly advice that you not sacrifice cut quality. The cut of a diamond is the least understood of the 4C's yet the most important in terms of the stones potential beauty and light performance. You already seem to understand the differences in labs, so I would encourage you to stick only to GIA and AGS graded stones. I think that if size is the most important to you that you consider looking at H/I colored stones and eye clean SI1/SI2's. An I1 from any lab is probably going to have eye visible inclusions and since you are looking for a stone that you can visually appreciate, I would steer clear of this particular grade. Having said that it is possible to find an eye clean I1, I've seen it happen here, but you have to be very very patient and willing to wait for the right one to come along. Is it possible for you to post reports for any of the GIA stones that you are considering?
 
I should also add that jeweler store lighting is designed to make even the worst quality diamonds sparkle, so don't be fooled. And that your best price is likely going to come from an online vendor without the overhead cost of a BM location...this isn't always the case but it's good to make comparisons before purchase.
 
If YOU are happy with it, it's fine, but for an I1 without a reputable grading report, you have no idea what you actually bought, if you even got the carat weight you think you bought, and I wouldn't have opened a credit card or paid that much money, so I would return it, and close that card as long as it doesn't hurt my credit anymore than opening the card did in the first place.

I would start over with an online vendor, I know you want to see it in person, but I would not pay that much money for just "very good" cut.
 
Newbie here, but coming from past experience, I once purchased a stone that had a small visible inclusion. At first I thought it wouldn't bother me cause it was hardly noticeable. But then, every time I looked at the diamond my eye would zero in on the inclusion and not at the overall diamond. I had to trade it in for an Si1 with no visible inclusions.

With a more recent diamond purchase, I got a stone with a great clarity and color but the cut was not all that great, and I've come to wish I paid more attention to its cut too.
 
I'm not sure how I missed that you already purchased this stone...it's been a long day. :oops: Since you already have the stone it might be worth it to look at beside other GIA/AGS EX and ideal cut stones to see if you can see the difference in performance. It's important that you view the stone in many different lighting environments not just under trick jewelry store lighting. I would also suggest that you consider the dimensions of the stone you purchased and not it's ct weight. Stone without ideal proportions will almost always face up smaller than one with ideal proportions, so it's possible that your 1.6ct only faces up like a 1.45, if this is the case then you just paid a premium for something that you can't visually appreciate kwim? Are you stones proportions listed on the report? Can you post them?
 
thanks all.

to the comment about not being worth opening a credit card, that was only to get the 10% off and avoid having to wait to get my cash back if i returned without it being on their credit card (they process refund via check in 10 business days if you pay cash). the moment i decide that i am keeping the ring, i will pay the balance off without ever paying interest. if i decide to return, i can purchase a different ring right away with my cash without waiting for the refund check. so no worries there.

anyway, thanks for comment on the store lighting. i thought to look at it outside the case obviosuly, but not outside the store. and thanks for idea of bringing it to another jeweler to compare. i hadnt thought of that. i thought they might be insulted by me bringing in another ring. will they??

anyway, i know gia ags is preferable but thus far it passes my eye test and im most concerned about the rock itself more than the paper. that being said, i am finding gia 1.55ish rounds at si2, h, very good cut for around $9000.. http://www.bluenile.com/diamond-search?track=NavDiaSea i guess i have to put the 2 side by side and decide if the gia is worth 3k more to me.

that being said, people said i can find a better value. for a "gsl rated, 1.63 carat, g color, i1, very good cut with no cloudiness whatsoever" is $6200 overpaying? if anyone thinks so, please tell me where i might find a better deal on the diamond i have. i can decide whether i want to keep the gsl for 6200 or get the better gia for 9000 with my eye. but what i really need to know is can i getter a better deal than i did on the gsl. any reccomendations oon where to look are appreciated.

thanks agains
 
ps im saying 6200 bc it was 6800 total and i value the 18k white gold solitaire setting at about 600
 
I like GIA or AGS graded stones. Look on the diamond search here on PS to compare prices and see if you think you over paid.
 
I feel overwhelmed reading this post because I don't even really know where to begin.

You bought a diamond with a cert that isn't worth the paper it is printed on - you literally could have eyeballed the stone, typed it up on your computer, and printed it off yourself and it would likely be just as accurate. :nono: That stone could be an L color, I2, entirely too deep that faces up more like a 1.2 carat than 1.6. And you'd have NO IDEA. So you can't ask if you've overpaid because you can't actually tell us what the REAL stats for this stone are. There's no way to compare apples to apples with other stones online. If you look for a comparable 1.6/G/I1, it probably looks like you got a great price. BUT those are certified, absolutely correct grades. And your's is not. I would eat my hat if it came back as anything better than a K/I2 by GIA.

My bottom line opinion is that if you want the PRETTIEST, BEST VALUE ring possible, return it. Come back here with a budget, preferred color and clarity, the actual dimensions of this diamond, and we'll find you something that will blow this one out of the water for the same price. Guaranteed.
 
since you already have the stone and you have a return policy why don't you have the diamond ring appraised by a local reputable appraiser?
that way you will see if the actual specs are far or not from the report, also the price you paid if it is fair or not.
 
You sound like you're more concerned about getting a deal, than getting the best for your money. What you got is not what you really got. You got a stone, sure, but what it is you have no real idea. And what you paid for it, after discounts and fancy sales pitches and games, is probably still way way more than it's worth.
 
thanks again all... i am starting to realize that i did not get as good of a deal as i thought. i didnt know how worthless GSL grading was. I think i do need to stick with GIA, AGS or maybe EGLUSA?. I am going to return the ring I bought as the price looked good on the spot but doesnt appear so now. Thoughts on EGLUSA?

Perhaps any professionals here can lead me in the right direction.

I would like for the round diamond to be 1.5+, I color or above (unless I color will have a very noticeable color then i guess H or above), a Very Good cut or better, and eye clean (I guess SI1, 2, or perhaps 3)...my budget is $7000 for the diamond. I would be fine with EGLUSA if it is the right stone.


Sorry for being vague on my requirements, its just that I can read about what all these different ratings means, but that doesnt tell me what they will look like to my eye so its been difficult to decide online.

If anyone can reccomend a place where I can view EGLUSA diamonds live I would greatly appreciate it. I am in Nassau County, NY but would be willing to travel a bit. Ive seen plenty of GIA diamonds live but would like to investigate if the savings on a EGL diamond are worth it to me. I hate to seem cheap. If it becomes apparent that I must spend 10k on a GIA, I will do so, but I am a recent law school graduate running my own small business so while I dont want to go below a minimum standard of quality, I also can't afford to pay for any quality that wont be visible to the naked eye.

Thanks again.
 
i guess at the end of the day what I am really looking for is a place where I can look at EGL Diamonds live b/c it appears as though unless you are going GIA or AGL you need to mnake sure its the right stone which you cant do over the computer.
 
EGL USA is the best among the EGL graders. My stone is EGL USA graded and it was just sent to GIA for grading and it came back as the same. If you call Yuki at ID Jewelry, give him your budget and specifications and he'll find you the best stone within your budget. He can also show you GIA and AGS stones and offer them to you for lower prices. He's a doll to work with too!

http://idjewelryonline.com/index.php
 
I think you need to be realistic about your size expectations for your budget, and just get the best cut for your budget and buy from someone with a good upgrade policy so you can trade it in later for bigger when you're more established. You like the sound of a 1.5ct I think, and going with maybe a 1.3 or 1.4 or so might be more feasable for your budget.

I have an EGLUSA stone and it's on par with an AGS and a GIA stone, dare I say harsh in the clarity grading.
 
ame|1357764869|3351509 said:
I think you need to be realistic about your size expectations for your budget, and just get the best cut for your budget and buy from someone with a good upgrade policy so you can trade it in later for bigger when you're more established. You like the sound of a 1.5ct I think, and going with maybe a 1.3 or 1.4 or so might be more feasable for your budget.

I have an EGLUSA stone and it's on par with an AGS and a GIA stone, dare I say harsh in the clarity grading.

+1 I completely agree. I couldn't even find a half decent 1.5 EGL USA certified stone in your budget. I still think it'd be a good idea to call ID Jewelry for a stone like that. If, however, you decide you'd like something better quality, then we'd be happy to help with the search!
 
thanks all. i really appreciate the advice. returned the zales ring (what a dumb rush move that was). I am going to ID tomorrow. They have allot of EGL diamonds thhat are 1.55-1.7, very good-excellent cut, g color, SI1 clarity that are at or near my 7k budget. Hopefully I will find one I like and purchase it tomorrow. If not the plan will then become to wait 2-3 weeks and up the budget to 10k for a GIA.
 
newtothisHELP|1357770126|3351576 said:
thanks all. i really appreciate the advice. returned the zales ring (what a dumb rush move that was). I am going to ID tomorrow. They have allot of EGL diamonds thhat are 1.55-1.7, very good-excellent cut, g color, SI1 clarity that are at or near my 7k budget. Hopefully I will find one I like and purchase it tomorrow. If not the plan will then become to wait 2-3 weeks and up the budget to 10k for a GIA.

:appl: only get something that's excellent or ideal cut!!! Good luck and let us know what happens!!
 
It sounds like you're on the right track. When you go to ID, tell them you're on Pricescope and only want to see excellent/ideal cuts. An ex/ideal 1.3 is going to be far more beautiful than a good 1.5.

As an aside to others, does ID offer the same upgrade policies as GOG? Or should he be seeing Jon as well?
 
justginger|1357773145|3351617 said:
It sounds like you're on the right track. When you go to ID, tell them you're on Pricescope and only want to see excellent/ideal cuts. An ex/ideal 1.3 is going to be far more beautiful than a good 1.5.

As an aside to others, does ID offer the same upgrade policies as GOG? Or should he be seeing Jon as well?

I don't believe they do - at least there's nothing on their site about it. GOG might be a good idea, but do they have a big inventory of EGL USA stones? I agree he should get something smaller but size seems to be a priority...
 
thanks all. i won't look at anything other than excellent and ideal.

its not that size is a priority. it was, however, a starting point. i looked at everything from 1.2 to 2.1 with varying ranges of grades and what i thought would look best on her was a round 1.5-1.6 carat diamond (1.2 too small, 2.0 big) that were eye clean with a very good cut (now i am hearing here to go up to excellent which i will). Set in a relatively simple solitaire setting.. I dont want to compromise on any of those aspects. The mall store ring was a brainfart once i got it home i immediately felt uneasy about it. While the size and color were right, the cut and clarity were not what i wanted.

If I can accomplish that for 7-8k via EGL, I will. If not I will wait two weeks and up the budget and go with a GIA.

I'll see a handful tomorrow and I'm sure I'll know relatively quickly whether the EGL is sufficient.

I will let you all know what I come up with. Thanks again.
 
Are you willing to drive out to Long Island and visit Good Old Gold on Long Island? Pricewise he might be a little steeper than ID but he might still be worth a visit especially because he has a great upgrade policy. I don't know if ERD has one but there's another option. I don't know about James Allen in NYC either, but another option as well.

Just do not rush or settle. Get the best you can get for your buck. Cut is king. If you have the best cut out there, you can go down a little on color and not lose the brightness and whiteness which frees the budget up a bit for size.
 
absolutely. i live on long island in rockville centre. where is gold old gold?
 
newtothisHELP|1357785457|3351802 said:
absolutely. i live on long island in rockville centre. where is gold old gold?
Sunrise Hwy in Massapequa Park. They're like RIGHT by the LIRR stop in Mass park. They're next to a BreadCo and a really badass pizza place that I hope is still there.
 
I actually think you should buy a second hand stone off ebay that's where the real deals are. I know you can find one within your specs. I would look for you but no time right now.
 
You get what you pay for, so I advise you to stick with GIA Excellent cut or AGS Ideal cut, with the exception of a few handpicked EGL stones that GOG may have. They price them honestly and will tell you what they think the true color and clarity are. And they assess light performance. Otherwise, you are likely to overpay for an EGL stone.

You did the right thing returning that other ring. You want to get the best quality you can afford to give to the person you love most in the world, I would hope!
 
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