Advice regarding what to do with a natural Alexandrite

[chrono]

Natural light should show the blue green side.
Incandescent light should show the purple red side. No candles needed unless you happen to have some emergency candles at home (which I do ).

 

[minousbijoux]

So Chrono when you say "incandescent light" does that mean that strong kitchen lights or halogen lights would work?

 

[chrono]

So Chrono when you say "incandescent light" does that mean that strong kitchen lights or halogen lights would work?

No, I meant the old fashioned resistance wire type yellow incandescent bulb, which will give the truest change. Halogen light will give you a different colour change/shift.

 

[Marlow]

NO halogen!!!!! It is a cold light!!!

You can use some candles ( Zar Alexander did not use halogen ) or the good old bulb - I bought enough till the end of my life.

No halogen, no LED. Many use cheap lights in gemshow - the alex looks ugly.

I am sure you use the little pencil lamps a vet or doctor use to look in the throat of the cat or human - these bulbs are warm and perfect.

If you want to purchase an alex in a show use a dichroscope - why?

Alexandrite has a strong pleochroism - with a dichroscope you see the " extreme" colors in the stone if you hold it with a tweezer and
"play" with the stone. I have a lot of experience with alexandrite - the color change is NEVER stronger then the extreme colors you see with the dichroscope !!! Important !!!! color change is not the same as pleochroism !!!!

So they can tell you whatever they want - if you have an alex with a nice bluegreen and light grayishpink in the dichroscope you will never see and a strong purple color in incandescent light.

 

[Marlow]

The dichroscope will not work with a color change garnet!!!

garnet is cubic

 

[needfullshinythings]

Thx all for your posts, sooooooo much information to get through. I have dug up some pictures of the stone when it was still set, they give some indication of the dark blue with violet flashes. Not its full colour change but different to the other pictures in daylight.

 

[Marlow]

Very dark !

Where did you buy it and which country was the stone mined? It is a large round ( unusual shape for Alexandrite) stone - difficult to get.

 

[needfullshinythings]

Hi again Marlow, I purchased it on the spur of the moment 2nd hand. It was for sale in a pawn shop advertised as a " Platinum ring with blue/green stone " Having no idea what the stone was, I took a chance that they don't normally set garbage in 950 Platinum. Its a little hobby I have buying and selling 2nd hand jewellery, I have tried to stay away from coloured gemstones ( little knowledge ) I just couldn't walk away from it. I want to get it properly certified, but I have 2 different opinions from within the jewellery and gem trade on what it is. That's why I have posted it for opinions and advice, i clearly have lots to learn I keep forgetting to say the size of the stone, its 1.65ct.

 

[Marlow]

First - nice hobby - sometimes I try to find unusual gems at pawn shop or second hand juwelers too.

But somebody told you it is alexandrite??

http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?blobcol=gfile&blobheader=application%2Fpdf&blobheadername1=Content-Disposition&blobheadername2=MDT-Type&blobheadername3=Content-Type&blobheadervalue1=attachment%3B+filename%3DChrysoberyl-and-Alexandrite-from-the-Pegmatite-Districts-of-Minas-Gerais-Brazil&blobheadervalue2=abinary%3B+charset%3DUTF-8&blobheadervalue3=application%2Funknown&blobkey=id&blobtable=GIA_DocumentFile&blobwhere=1355958423340&ssbinary=true

This is a very fine article about Chrysoberyl and Alexandrite!! Wonderful Hematita Alexandrite!!

 

[Marlow]

You say you have two opinions about this stone.

What did they say - we see only pictures.

 

[needfullshinythings]

I have an appraisal done by " Safeguard " who are an independent company attached to the Birmingham assay office UK which was done when the stone was still in its setting, the 2nd was done by registered gemologist working in the same jewellery quarter in Birmingham UK. FGA, DGA registered. ( if that means anything ) the stone was loose when he looked at it. The safeguard appraisal was very vague but states Alexandrite with a moderate colour change. When I had the stone removed from its setting I allowed my jeweller ( who isn't familiar with Alexandrite ) to send it off to the gemologist company he uses for his business. His opinion was that the stone is a " natural Sapphire " Which as you can imagine blew my mind !!! I contacted Safeguard regarding the appraisal and the dialogue didn't go too well unfortunately. It failed to mention colour/clarity/cut and no written confirmation of synthetic or natural, I have an e-mail from them that says " if there is no mention of synthetic or natural, then the stone is assumed natural " Give me 20mins and I will dig it out for you.

 

[LoversKites]

I have an appraisal done by " Safeguard " who are an independent company attached to the Birmingham assay office UK which was done when the stone was still in its setting, the 2nd was done by registered gemologist working in the same jewellery quarter in Birmingham UK. FGA, DGA registered. ( if that means anything ) the stone was loose when he looked at it. The safeguard appraisal was very vague but states Alexandrite with a moderate colour change. When I had the stone removed from its setting I allowed my jeweller ( who isn't familiar with Alexandrite ) to send it off to the gemologist company he uses for his business. His opinion was that the stone is a " natural Sapphire " Which as you can imagine blew my mind !!! I contacted Safeguard regarding the appraisal and the dialogue didn't go too well unfortunately. It failed to mention colour/clarity/cut and no written confirmation of synthetic or natural, I have an e-mail from them that says " if there is no mention of synthetic or natural, then the stone is assumed natural " Give me 20mins and I will dig it out for you.

Colour changing sapphires exist, so that is a possibility too. I'm unsure which appraisal is the more reliable one.

Weird that there is confusion since both have different refractive indexes, thus some (from what I've read, fairly basic) equipment could differentiate between the two -- synthetic or not.

 

[Marlow]

That is really " funny"!!!

You need a refractometer, a drop of anderson liquid and one minute for two or three measurements...
Then you know whether is is Chrysoberyl or Sapphire.
If you want to buy more gems buy some intruments and learn to work with them - it is easy.
There are tutorial videos on gemology Online for example.

 

[needfullshinythings]

Hi, Safeguard are considered the " best " independent appraisal company in the UK & have been for some time. They would also have access to all modern testing equipment. The 1 from the gemologist my jeweller uses is merely his opinion, and I doubt he would have in house equipment comparable to that of a much larger company. I just cant understand how it can be appraised as 2 completely different species !!! The vague nature of the Safeguard appraisal bothered me somewhat, how do I get a replacement based on the information given ? Surely that's not good enough, or am I expecting too much ( for one who knows so little ) I wonder why I have always avoided coloured stones

 

[Marlow]

The second is ridicolous! Why.....

RI Sapphire:

Sapphire is trigonal - so you will have TWO measurements ( lines) on the display of the refractometer if you use ( and you have to!!)
the polarisator.
One is FIX around 1,770 and the otherone from 1,762 - close to 1,770 - depends which facette you use for measurement.
Normally you measure on the table and one facette and the pavillion. Not possible course the stone is set in a ring - and with the prongs - how can they use a refractometer???

So ONE measurement 1,76 is not correct!!! Again - in corund around 1,770 . So I don't understand why he/she say that it is a sapphire.

Why not a garnet with colour change.... ( I don't think it is garnet).

 

[needfullshinythings]

I forgot to say that the 2nd one was done with the stone loose, not sure if that makes any difference. The link you posted has some very similar daylight colour stones to mine, 1 of my pictures shows the stone with several colours on display and there was a very similar stone to that 1. Thx.

 

[Marlow]

So it was possible to make a correct measurement.

The most interessting pic is the first. It would be great if it is a Hematita alex from the find around 1988. A setting in platinum - why not!

I think the best you send it to a lab.

 

[needfullshinythings]

Good day all, due to the cost involved sending it to the U.S. without actually knowing what I have, seems a bit silly. So I am going to send it to a lab here in the UK to get a definitive answer on what it is 1st ( the lab I'm sending it to is part of the same company "SAFEGUARD " belongs to ) Will be interesting to see if they agree with their sister company. Then I can balance possible value against cost of service, would this make sense to all ? I would imagine there is a big difference in value between Alex & colour sapphire, hence my caution. Opinions very welcome.

 

[needfullshinythings]

Hi all, the stone is off to the lab as we speak. Probably be a couple of weeks before I get it back, as soon as I get it I will post the results. Many thx to everyone who has contributed, its been a very steep learning curve I have found myself on. At times it has felt like the Matrix, should have bought the clear stone instead of the coloured 1 !!! Great forum folks, see you soon

 

[LD]

Ok - first of all let me say that I have an enormous amount of experience with Safeguard. They are valuers and appraisers but they're affiliated to the Birmingham Assay Office. Their gemstone assessors are all highly qualified and because they travel the UK they get to see a huge range of coloured gemstones (much more so than the average jeweller). I am assuming that you were with them when they did the valuation? If so, did they do the RI and any other tests to determine what the stone was? Having said that - I am worried about your stone because the photos are saying something different ie they're not indicating an Alex.

Can you divulge where you bought this, the price and how it was marketed i.e. Russian Alexandrite, Natural Alexandrite etc etc because this MAY help to determine the likelihood of whether or not this is an Alex (it'll be a good indicator)?

Let me tell you my concerns and this is based on your photos and being a collector of Alexandrite for many years:-

1. To be able to take the daylight colourway of an Alex with a camera is almost impossible to do without some form of photo manipulation. One of the photos looks like it has been taken with a flash and another looks to be an indoor photo (presumably with lights on). If you're using daylight imitating light bulbs you MAY be able to capture the daylight colour but typically it's almost impossible because you look at a green stone with your eyes, press the camera shutter and there, on film, is the night time colourway of purple/red! The fact that you've managed to do it indicates that either (a) you're a professional photographer and researched how to take the photo or (b) it's not a high quality Alex and has very weak colour change or (c) it's a vanadium laced corundum or (d) a synthetic Alex.

2. Round cut Alex are quite rare in the size you have which is another concern. Typically Alex is cut to preserve weight and therefore you don't often see a round. It's not unheard of but it's not the "norm".

3. The RI of an Alex should be within the range of 1.741 - 1.760 (the Chrysoberyl family of which Alex is one) but if it's a vanadium laced corundum, the RI would be in the range of 1.759 - 1.778.

4. Unfortunately some Alex imitators look exactly like the real thing and can fool appraisers. I had one stone that I was sure wasn't an Alex but all the test results that I had done (and Safeguard) came back as reading like it was an Alex. I therefore asked them to send to their lab (in London) which they did. It was conclusive that it was an imitation.

5. The only other thing that I'm slightly worried about is your colour description. If you are seeing quite a lot of blue, it could point to a synthetic. Some natural Alex from Brazil will have more of a green/blue daylight colour but you'd never describe them as blue. However, some of your pictures look green(ish) but some do look very blue (too much really) so that is making me pause and have concerns.

If you want some more info on Alex - I wrote a long post ages ago and if you search my name and Alexandrite I'm sure you'll find it. You may also find some photos of the stones I own which will show you what mine look like when I photograph them. I also thing there's a couple of videos somewhere that may help you also.

Best case scenario, it's an Alex with a very weak colour change. Alex is valued by the colour change so this would devalue the stone somewhat. However, if it's a vanadium laced corundum they're quite sought after because you don't see them very often!!!! So don't be too panicked because it could turn out well either way!

 

[needfullshinythings]

Hi LD, Many Many thx for your post. I was hoping you might chip in at some point along the way. I will try and answer your questions in order, soooo much to get through I purchased the ring 2nd hand from a high st pawn/money shop, they had no idea what the stone was and had it advertised as a " platinum ring with a green/blue stone " based on layman logic of " they don't normally set garbage in platinum " I took a chance. I then had it looked at by a couple of jewellers, and was advised to get it appraised. It was submitted to safeguard whilst still set in its mount, obviously the normal tests couldn't be carried out due to it being set. I contacted them regarding the lack of information on the appraisal and received several extremely rude replies from various employees of the company quoting industry jargon which is uncheckable by members of the public ( I don't have access to the BlueBook ) Having used Safeguard many times in the past I was shocked by this attitude, I asked a couple of polite and simple questions and got nothing but abuse !!!! Next- I can eliminate option A of paragraph 1, I only use a cheap canon power shot digi camera. Paragraph 3, the 2nd assessment states an ri of 1.76 which is at the end of the alexandrite scale and the start of of corundum, can this junction point cause any confusion ( I appreciate its at the 2 extremes which would make it slim ) Onto the pictures, the 1st 2 sets of 4 pictures were taken indoors with various amounts of natural light coming in, the last block of 4 showing the stone as very dark and mounted were taken with a flash indoors. I don't have any outdoor pictures which show the stone as a lot more green than blue. As soon as it comes back I will take some for you. Having read some of the info you and others have posted regarding Alexandrite/chrysoberyl and vanadium laced corundum I have realised that even if your from the trade there is a massive grey area regarding the classification of these stones ( 1 persons alex is anothers chrysoberyl ) typical of me to jump in at the deep end !!!! Being a pragmatist makes it easy to accept if the stone isn't an Alex, it would be nice but the world wont end if it isn't. It was a speculative purchase in the 1st place, so even after all the costs and drama I cant see me being out of pocket tooo much, the knowledge I have gained would balance the 2 out nicely. I only hope that it turns out to be a natural stone, as both the appraisals have indicated that the stone is Natural !!! Many thx again LD, i hope i have covered all your questions. The result will be interesting tho

 

[LD]

Based on your answers (thank you for that) - I would be very surprised if this turned out to be a valuable natural Alex (sorry ) but that is based on the photos. I use a Canon also and have had about 5 Canons now and not one has been able to pick up the daylight green. With that in mind, I'm leaning to either an Alex with a very very very weak colour change (which greatly affects value ) or another stone entirely.

There actually isn't much confusion with Alex/Chryso or Vandium Chrysos. The other thread you've seen is not the norm!!!! Typically it's easy to know when an Alex is an Alex and distinguish it from a Chryso and Vanadium Chrysos have a very distinctive look! I can understand how reading that thread has been confusing though.

I do hope that you get some good news. Interestingly, the value assigned to the stone (if it is an Alex with a very weak colour change) is, if you don't mind me saying, on the high side. The value is so dependent on what the stone actually is though so I'm really keen to know what you find out. When will you get it back? I was so impatient when they were looking at mine that I phoned the lab in London

 

[LD]

I just want to show you something .......... all of these photos were taken with a Canon.

The one outside you can clearly see that most of the stones look like dark dark dark green verging on black. This is NOT how they look to the naked eye. On my hand with my eyes, I see grass-dark green (all different tones). The camera however is desperately trying to show the incandescent colourway. The rings that look more green in this photo are the ones that have a very weak colour change.

Then, the last photo shows you the same rings as in one of the photos, inside with a normal light on (but it's still daylight outside so you don't get to see the proper change). You can see that there is now no green to be seen at all. This is why your photos worry me. Inside with a light on, it's almost impossible to capture any green. If you were lucky you might get one photo like that but definitely not more than one.

I've got to just say that these Alex are my worst ones and have a moderate colour change - none of these are outstanding. The better Alex NEVER looks anything other than purple/red in photos!

 

[LD]

You may also find this interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f86t50LoEL0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYE8g-rcKI8


This is a random one I've found of a synthetic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWBGYyigPvU

 

[eastjavaman]

My Natural Alexandrite was set in a ring, but it looks ugly as you can see in the handshot, most of the time it looks like that. I have heard nothing, but compliments,..err..complaints. Eventually, I removed it to make space for other stone since we get so little chance to have single source of light, not to mention as LD preached: the huge window.

 

[needfullshinythings]

Thx for the links LD, my stone does not behave like any of these stones though I have already positioned myself on the bottom rung of the ladder, less chance of the fall hurting That's a very nice collection of rings you have there, maybe some extra fingers this xmas instead of another ring I will give you a quick break down of my experience with this stone, I purchased it without knowing what it was. To me it looked like a coloured diamond because of the way it sparkled ( feel free to laugh, pure layman ) I took it to a couple of jewellers, 1 of them tested it with his 2 testers, 1 said diamond every time the other said not every time !!! The other jeweller produced a selection of fcd rings for comparison. He agreed it looked like some of his stones but pushed me towards an independent appraisal. I got it back from Safeguard and that's where the fun begins with the Alexandrite question. I hope you can see why I am struggling a little processing all the information provided And I still don't know exactly what I COULD or MIGHT have One final question, in outdoor sunlight the stone sparkles like crazy, you get an idea of this in my 1st set of pictures. It isn't a blue colour with violet flashes though, instead it is very much on the greener side ( I know pictures help ) does this fit the characteristics of any of the stones you think it could be ? Thx again

 

[LD]

Goodness me what a story!

I'm not sure where you are in the UK but unfortunately the majority of high street jewellers specialise in diamonds, may have a few sapphires (usually awful black inky things - apologies to those who like them), might have some below par Emeralds and highly treated Rubies - then they have a plethora of topaz and amethyst and perhaps a few opals and pearls. So, unfortunately, whilst they may know about diamonds, their knowledge of coloured gemstones is probably limited (this is a very sweeping generalisation but I've yet to find a jeweller who has handled enough coloured stones to be able to speak with some authority).

Using a diamond tester on this stone IMHO is ludicrous! A good jeweller would be able to see if it was doubly (Alex) or singly (Diamond) refractive and wouldn't rely on a diamond tester! The fact that the same machine gave two different readings isn't unfortunately, a surprise but the fact that one was used in the first place is indicative that the jewellery really didn't know what they were doing!

In terms of sparkle ........... mmmmmm, I've been debating what you've said. I don't think I've ever seen an Alex sparkle as a diamond does. A well cut one does of course look very pretty and flashes bounce off the facets but sparkle - no.

You've said that you notice more green in daylight - that would potentially rule out a synthetic corundum laced with vanadium as these very rarely show any green and only look blue. However flux/Czochralski pulled Alex could produce the colours you've mentioned. ALSO the colours might suggest a colour change sapphire or colour change garnet (which MIGHT have an RI of 1.76). Both of these have been known to show a green/purple colour change. They are actually quite sought after stones in their own right (because the colour change is more unusual than some of the other colour change combinations) so it would be good if your stone turned out to be one of those. Another distinct possibility is singly refractive synthetic spinel - although the RI value you've been given is too low as spinel is (from memory) around 1.73 I think. They can look remarkably like Alex (although not often seen) but it might be why you've only been given the one RI reading rather than a range (which indicates double refraction).

One thing I've noticed on the Safeguard report is that your ring has a safemark on it. Did you ask them to do it or was it already there? Safemark is put on jewellery by Safeguard at the owner's request and the item is then listed on their database so it can easily be traced in the event of loss/theft. If you didn't have it done then it will have been the previous owner of the ring and I wonder if Safeguard can tell you how it was registered? Having said that, if it wasn't properly tested then you're still at square one!

I don't know how much you paid for the ring but it's a platinum shank and a pretty stone that really caught your eye so, if worst case scenario happens, you've still got a pretty ring.

 

[needfullshinythings]

I am sorry if my use of the word " sparkle " is misleading, it sounded right when I typed it OK lets try again When sunlight hits the stone it bounces green flashes back as you tilt it, indoors this changes to a violet colour flash. Does that sound better to you ( still struggling for the right words ) Obviously not the same as a diamond, but to me as a layman it was very unusual. The safeguard " safemark " was applied without my request or permission which is also part of my disappointment with that side of the company. They damaged my property and refused to accept this fact. Your probably wondering if I have any more bizarre episodes to add to this story, well lets wait till the stone comes back before I answer that 1

 

[LD]

That does sound better and much more what you would expect to see. If it's a weak colour changer then it's only flashes of purple you'd see in the incandescent light and the body of the stone would (typically) darken.

BTW I wouldn't be angry with Safeguard. The Safemark is a fantastic thing to have. Just think about it, if this ring turns out to be something special and it was lost, you'd have the assurance that it could always be tracked back to you. I've had a number of my more exotic rings marked in this way.

 

[chrono]

I am sorry if my use of the word " sparkle " is misleading, it sounded right when I typed it OK lets try again When sunlight hits the stone it bounces green flashes back as you tilt it, indoors this changes to a violet colour flash. Does that sound better to you ( still struggling for the right words ) Obviously not the same as a diamond, but to me as a layman it was very unusual. The safeguard " safemark " was applied without my request or permission which is also part of my disappointment with that side of the company. They damaged my property and refused to accept this fact. Your probably wondering if I have any more bizarre episodes to add to this story, well lets wait till the stone comes back before I answer that 1

This is a good thing; it totally eliminates it as a diamond and possibly eliminates it as a colour change sapphire too (those tend to be blue to purple). I am curious as to the findings and hope you'll continue to update us.