After months of research: Black By Brian Gavin Round 1.8 G VVS2 in 810 Collection Platinum Halo

[holeydonut]

Ugh... I had a very strange conversation on the phone with Brian Gavin (not his rep, Brian himself) today after he was able to personally inspect the ring after I returned it to his workshop.

I expressed that the crooked melee on both sides of the ring was fairly noticeable, since it caused just one of the melee to appear dark/missing when compared to all the surrounding melee at certain angles. It was odd that on the "left" side of the gallery view everything looked perfect, but on the right side of the gallery view there was something crooked. On both sides of the ring.

I told him the reason I went with BGD for this diamond/ring combo was his stellar reputation for cuts and his uncompromising approach to his craft.

His response was not what I was expecting. He said jewelry is an art-form and sometimes melee and other features will appear crooked. He added that it wasn't realistic for me to expect one side of the ring to appear as seamless/flawless as the other side of the ring. I confirmed he was referring to the left/right side in the same gallery view; not comparing the literal two sides of the ring in a side-by-side photographic comparison.

He basically wanted me to know that if melee looked crooked, it was unrealistic to expect every stone to look evenly seated when compared to the melee next to it. He added since light refracts off of melee differently due to changing angles of light, it wasn't realistic to expect what I saw on the left-side of the ring (where I don't see crooked melee alignment) to be mimicked on the right side of the same gallery view (where I see one stone on each side to be noticeably different than its surroundings).

Overall, I find this somewhat disappointing. I know he's going to "try and make it look better," ... I just didn't think Brian Gavin's response would basically be a concession of expectations. Overall the settings are very good and flush; it's just two melee left straggling... and now I'm not so confident it'll get fixed.

We also discussed that over time melee will naturally become unseated/moved-a-bit so the ring will show signs of wear and decay in appearance over time. But I'd prefer it to not look decayed on day one... is that an unrealistic expectation? Brian Gavin seems to stress over the most fractional deviation in facet angles on his diamonds, but then tells me a melee can be set and be off over 5 degrees and still be okay?

I honestly feel like I'm being punked or in the Twilight Zone.

 

[yssie]

@holeydonut, do you discern the melee misalignment with your naked eyes IRL, or do you require magnification to see it in-person? And is the misaligned melee your only/primary concern?

Remember that you did not choose a vendor renown for “loupe-clean” workmanship, and you are not paying for “loupe-clean” workmanship, so that should not be the expectation. You are paying for “eye-clean” workmanship. I personally would not consider two imperfectly-set melee, out of dozens, at this general price point, to be concerning - or to be my primary concern, but I am not you.

 

[icy_jade]

I don’t expect melees to be PERFECTLY aligned to be honest. Emphasis added as that seems to be your expectation? Even in very high end jewelers, my experience is that it’s not realistic to expect perfection. Or maybe I’m an easy customer and should be more demanding hmm.

 

[holeydonut]

@holeydonut, do you discern the melee misalignment with your naked eyes IRL, or do you require magnification to see it in-person? And is the misaligned melee your only/primary concern?

Remember that you did not choose a vendor renown for “loupe-clean” workmanship, and you are not paying for “loupe-clean” workmanship, so that should not be the expectation. You are paying for “eye-clean” workmanship. I personally would not consider two imperfectly-set melee, out of dozens, at this general price point, to be concerning - or to be my primary concern, but I am not you.

Easily visible without a loupe... one melee looks like it had fallen out since it faces up dark while the surrounding ones face up sparkly.

Side 1... third from the bottom faces up dark on the right side while the rest glimmer. It’s like this even at an angle.



Side 2... second from the bottom is crooked on the right side shoulder.


It’s a hideous optic once it’s noticed... especially since the rest of the ring looks so good.

 

[holeydonut]

Closer view ... its clear which one is seated crooked.


Other side... You can see one is crooked from the rest.

 

[yssie]

Yes, I can see them in your photos. My questions were whether you can see them without magnification and whether perfection in this regard is your expectation: you have answered both.

I hope BGD can meet your expectations and make you happy!

 

[ComeInSpinner]

What an amazing ring! I've never seen a halo quite like that before. I can't wait for handshots to see how it looks.

 

[holeydonut]

Yes, I can see them in your photos. My questions were whether you can see them without magnification and whether perfection in this regard is your expectation: you have answered both.

I hope BGD can meet your expectations and make you happy!

The biggest problem is the FF could see the “gap tooth” in the row of melee. She’s been involved in the ring design and diamond selection. I showed her the ring since BGD only has a 15 day return.

Brian Gavin also sees the issue without magnification but defends his work as “art”. A gap tooth melee and crooked melee on the other side passed his standards on this ring.

Utter BS if you ask me... the melee on the left side gallery and shank are set very well. But the crooked one is art??

 

[holeydonut]

I don’t expect melees to be PERFECTLY aligned to be honest. Emphasis added as that seems to be your expectation? Even in very high end jewelers, my experience is that it’s not realistic to expect perfection. Or maybe I’m an easy customer and should be more demanding hmm.

This ring cost $30k, and I’ve been clear since the onset with them that I selected BGD due to his reputation of caring about the little things that other diamond cutters and jewelers may shrug away.

You can imagine my frustration when Brian Gavin himself tells me some crooked melee is art... and I should lower my expectations of him.

The melee is set beautifully on 98% of the ring... I know he’s capable of 99.99%. The Black diamond he has cut is to a 99.99% standard. But he sets the framework that the ring is art... so it’s ok with a gap tooth melee.

There is no way a Harry Winston micro-pave ring would have a gap appearance in the gallery and get out of the workshop. The CAD world has allowed ring design and quality that elevated expectations versus the hand set bead and bright melee.

 

[msop04]

@holeydonut... the ring is gorgeous, and I mean the following in the nicest possible way...

You... need. to. chill. TF. out. Some of your comments are coming across as petty, uninformed, and quite frankly, extremely unrealistic, especially given your budget. If you and/or your FF are convinced you would receive 100% perfection from another jeweler or jewelry house, then you need to go that route. However, I'm sure you know your budget would not stretch nearly as far... and I'm sad to say I believe you wouldn't even be happy with those houses you are convinced will offer perfection.

It seems as if you've worked pretty hard to seek out imperfection ("flaw") in every aspect of this ring. The images you show are very much enlarged and bordering on "loupe-picky", which is a level of perfection you didn't pay for... You seriously need to get a grip on the reality of your budget vs. your expectations. Please try not to make this just one more thing to anguish over, and do consider taking a step back to try to comprehend the level of perfection you have already achieved with this ring. I doubt anyone in your circles have anything even remotely as nice.

And, again, the ring is gorgeous. I hope both of you can see that and enjoy this happy time.

 

[Stone Hunter]

Gorgeous ring! I hope you can resolve the issues you have with it to your satisfaction.

 

[holeydonut]

@holeydonut... the ring is gorgeous, and I mean the following in the nicest possible way...

You... need. to. chill. TF. out. Some of your comments are coming across as petty, uninformed, and quite frankly, extremely unrealistic, especially given your budget. If you and/or your FF are convinced you would receive 100% perfection from another jeweler or jewelry house, then you need to go that route. However, I'm sure you know your budget would not stretch nearly as far... and I'm sad to say I believe you wouldn't even be happy with those houses you are convinced will offer perfection.

It seems as if you've worked pretty hard to seek out imperfection ("flaw") in every aspect of this ring. The images you show are very much enlarged and bordering on "loupe-picky", which is a level of perfection you didn't pay for... You seriously need to get a grip on the reality of your budget vs. your expectations. Please try not to make this just one more thing to anguish over, and do consider taking a step back to try to comprehend the level of perfection you have already achieved with this ring. I doubt anyone in your circles have anything even remotely as nice.

And, again, the ring is gorgeous. I hope both of you can see that and enjoy this happy time.

When she and I hold the ring, one of the melee looks missing because it doesn’t shine like the surrounding ones.

The zoomed in views are my attempt to show the underlying root cause. Two melee are poorly seated and crooked.

If Brian Gavin was forthright that he had lower standards, I wouldn’t have gone to him for the purchase.

 

[msop04]

When she and I hold the ring, one of the melee looks missing because it doesn’t shine like the surrounding ones.

The zoomed in views are my attempt to show the underlying root cause. Two melee are poorly seated and crooked.

If Brian Gavin was forthright that he had lower standards, I wouldn’t have gone to him for the purchase.

I understand what you're saying about the melee... but it is pretty unfair to say that BG's standards are low. It is my opinion that you have quite unrealistic expectations for your budget. That is all.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I pretty much agree with @msop04 that your expectations are a little unrealistic. I don't think anyone would really have noticed a thing had you not done super high magification. Rings are not meant to be loupe perfect. So don't look at them with a loupe!

Have you done a lot of business with Harry Winston? Because I honestly do not know how you can make that statement about their quality control without examining a large selection of their pave work in high magnification.

I love your choice of diamond, and I do hope you can work things out to be happy with this or another setting. One note about this setting, though. I hope you know she'll have to wear a low spacer band between this ring and the wedding band because a normal height wedding band is going to hit against that piece on the side of the head.

 

[holeydonut]

The flaw is visible without any loupe. It appears a melee has fallen out since it faces a different direction than the surrounding stones.

We had a conversation with Gavin’s Team about how important the setting finish and diamond were before paying him. At that time they assured us he had the highest standards.

But yesterday Brian said a gap appearance in the line of melee was “art”. I know he has high standards due to what I’ve seen him deliver to other customers and PS users. That’s why I was offput by his comment that a gap tooth appearance on my purchase was reasonable.

 

[holeydonut]

I understand what you're saying about the melee... but it is pretty unfair to say that BG's standards are low. It is my opinion that you have quite unrealistic expectations for your budget. That is all.

Him lowering his standards with me would still be a very high standard. But his sales team assured me the exact issue I’m experiencing now wouldn’t be a problem.

I know micro pave and fine melee are hard to set well. BGD uses intricate CAD and cast the melee seats and beads into the ring mold. This would ensure uniform seating and we were told that there would be no crooked melee, and the melee wouldn’t just fall out.

But now Brian tells me “you know, sometimes things are crooked.” These words seem inconsistent with his Black line of diamonds and his message to me on why BGD is the right choice over Tiffany and Cartier.

 

[holeydonut]

I pretty much agree with @msop04 that your expectations are a little unrealistic. I don't think anyone would really have noticed a thing had you not done super high magification. Rings are not meant to be loupe perfect. So don't look at them with a loupe!

Have you done a lot of business with Harry Winston? Because I honestly do not know how you can make that statement about their quality control without examining a large selection of their pave work in high magnification.

I love your choice of diamond, and I do hope you can work things out to be happy with this or another setting. One note about this setting, though. I hope you know she'll have to wear a low spacer band between this ring and the wedding band because a normal height wedding band is going to hit against that piece on the side of the head.

I’ve seen examples of HW work and their micro-pave / melee doesn’t exhibit gap tooth’s across stones.

I don’t need a loupe to see the gap tooth... unaided, the issue manifests as if a melee was missing or had fallen out. It’s because the poorly seated melee is facing a different direction than the surrounding stones on that side of the ring in the Gallery view.

 

[soxfan]

I don't think you are being picky. I'd want it fixed. It's not hard to reseat two melee.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

We could show you examples of Tiffany and Cartier that are not perfect. We've been through that topic before. Their diamonds usually are not as good as the superideal vendors we know on PS, either.

So how did you leave it with Brian? Is he replacing the "gap tooth" stones or are you returning the setting?

 

[holeydonut]

We could show you examples of Tiffany and Cartier that are not perfect. We've been through that topic before. Their diamonds usually are not as good as the superideal vendors we know on PS, either.

So how did you leave it with Brian? Is he replacing the "gap tooth" stones or are you returning the setting?

I agree T and C diamonds are sometimes sub par, but they’ve always made sure everything on the setting is perfect. I’ve know people with problems and they always had things remedied. I think it’s why they don’t do custom work except for rare instances.

Brian just said I need to lower my expectations, but his team will take a look. He is not admitting anything wrong with the ring as it was when I had it. Even with a gap tooth melee.

 

[SimoneDi]

OP, I am sorry that you are finding this process frustrating and that you are agonizing over two slightly misaligned melee diamonds. The diamond that you selected is stunning, the setting is gorgeous and very beautifully executed, the polish of the ring is perfect. This seems like a very small issue to be causing you this much frustration and for that I feel for you. But I agree with other posters that you should try to relax! I have been a long time BGD customer and while I sometimes have also had a different opinion on some things, one thing is indisputable - even if they don’t see things your way, they will try to make it right and please you because you are the customer. So if I were you, I would step back, calm down and let them fix your problem before bashing them online for an issue that is quite trivial and certainly fixable. I understand that you spent a lot of money on the ring, but the level of absolute perfection you expect comes at an even higher premium. This is not to say that it is not achievable, but it might take a couple of trials to get there.
I also agree with others that Tiffany and the other big jewelry houses certainly don’t always have “loupe-picky” quality. I have personally tried on a T&Co band that had borderline opaque looking diamonds.

So again, please relax and wait to see the new version of the ring.

ETA: I wanted to add that Brian is not the QC guy, he is the diamond guy. You can talk to him all day about diamonds, but I would address your concern with the setting to Lesley. I believe that she will understand better your issues.

 

[junebug17]

I can see the issues and I would want them fixed. It should not be a big deal to fix a few melee stones. I hope this is resolved to your satisfaction @holeydonut

And...not really understanding the argument that high end pieces aren’t always perfect? That’s not acceptable either lol - and those pieces should be returned and replaced as well.

 

[hmr_mama]

Yes, we see what you see. Yes, BG’s response was a little off-putting.

What people here are saying is that you would have spent thousands more if you had gone with Tiffany/HW. For a similar carat weight, this Tiffany ring starts at 42,500.
https://m.tiffany.com/engagement/ri...0385?search_params=param+0/0/0/0/0/0/GRP10101 Since Tiffany’s stones usually start at I/VS2 we can quickly summize that a diamond ring with similar specs to your BG stone would be thousands more than their starting point of 42,500. By going with BG, you saved yourself thousands of dollars. And you can’t guarantee the Tiffany ring wouldn’t have had problems. Although, if it did, you would have sales associates kissing your bum. Maybe that would have been worth it to you to overspend by tens of thousands of dollars. I dunno.

If you researched like you say you did, did you notice how so many superideal diamonds from BG/whiteflash/CBI are sent to people like Victor canera and Steven kirsch? People that have hand forged tastes send their diamonds to be set in hand forged settings. People with cad tastes send their diamonds in to be set in cad settings. You know the saying, champagne tastes on a beer budget. It’s just so offensive because you just spent 30k.

Hopefully, BG can fix the ring to your (and your ff’s) liking. Don’t let this hiccup spoil what’s meant to be the happiest time of your lives.

(Slides back into lurkdom)

 

[holeydonut]

OP, I am sorry that you are finding this process frustrating and that you are agonizing over two slightly misaligned melee diamonds. The diamond that you selected is stunning, the setting is gorgeous and very beautifully executed, the polish of the ring is perfect. This seems like a very small issue to be causing you this much frustration and for that I feel for you. But I agree with other posters that you should try to relax! I have been a long time BGD customer and while I sometimes have also had a different opinion on some things, one thing is indisputable - even if they don’t see things your way, they will try to make it right and please you because you are the customer. So if I were you, I would step back, calm down and let them fix your problem before bashing them online for an issue that is quite trivial and certainly fixable. I understand that you spent a lot of money on the ring, but the level of absolute perfection you expect comes at an even higher premium. This is not to say that it is not achievable, but it might take a couple of trials to get there.
I also agree with others that Tiffany and the other big jewelry houses certainly don’t always have “loupe-picky” quality. I have personally tried on a T&Co band that had borderline opaque looking diamonds.

So again, please relax and wait to see the new version of the ring.

ETA: I wanted to add that Brian is not the QC guy, he is the diamond guy. You can talk to him all day about diamonds, but I would address your concern with the setting to Lesley. I believe that she will understand better your issues.

Me too, I was hoping Brian would have just told me yesterday "we'll look into it, we want to make it perfect."

Instead, I received a 5 minute lecture about how imperfections make the ring unique... the challenge of setting melee... rings are art... how all the melee will look like this over time... and my need to lower my expectations. Not once has he acknowledged there's anything wrong with the ring even though I can see some crooked melee without a loupe.

This all seems in contrast to the sales pitch of why I picked his company to do this product and is adding to my frustration.

I really hope Brian was just toeing the company line and Lesley can address what could be a trivial issue.

 

[SimoneDi]

Me too, I was hoping Brian would have just told me yesterday "we'll look into it, we want to make it perfect."

Instead, I received a 5 minute lecture about how imperfections make the ring unique... the challenge of setting melee... art stuff... how all the melee will look like this over time... and my need to lower my expectations. Not once has he acknowledged there's anything wrong with the ring even though I can see some crooked melee without a loupe.

This all seems in contrast to the sales pitch of why I picked his company to do this product and is adding to my frustration.

I really hope Brian was just toeing the company line and Lesley can address what could be a trivial issue.

OP, seriously, don’t worry about it. I am sure that the issue will be resolved. You are stressing way too much over two slightly misaligned melee stones. Please try not to for your own good. Sometimes people don’t always speak the same language. I don’t necessarily think that you and Brian do, but don’t take it personal. BGD still want to want you to be happy, I have worked with them long enough to know that.

 

[holeydonut]

Yes, we see what you see. Yes, BG’s response was a little off-putting.

What people here are saying is that you would have spent thousands more if you had gone with Tiffany/HW. For a similar carat weight, this Tiffany ring starts at 42,500.
https://m.tiffany.com/engagement/ri...0385?search_params=param+0/0/0/0/0/0/GRP10101 Since Tiffany’s stones usually start at I/VS2 we can quickly summize that a diamond ring with similar specs to your BG stone would be thousands more than their starting point of 42,500. By going with BG, you saved yourself thousands of dollars. And you can’t guarantee the Tiffany ring wouldn’t have had problems. Although, if it did, you would have sales associates kissing your bum. Maybe that would have been worth it to you to overspend by tens of thousands of dollars. I dunno.

If you researched like you say you did, did you notice how so many superideal diamonds from BG/whiteflash/CBI are sent to people like Victor canera and Steven kirsch? People that have hand forged tastes send their diamonds to be set in hand forged settings. People with cad tastes send their diamonds in to be set in cad settings. You know the saying, champagne tastes on a beer budget. It’s just so offensive because you just spent 30k.

Hopefully, BG can fix the ring to your (and your ff’s) liking. Don’t let this hiccup spoil what’s meant to be the happiest time of your lives.

(Slides back into lurkdom)

Yeah, I kind of wish I never spoke with Brian on the phone... I thought this would be a quick fix with a little bit of re-seating on some of the tiny stones. My post on the first page of this thread was basically "I guess there are some stones to tweak."

But Brian's explanations to me yesterday really put me in a less-than-happy place.

 

[msop04]

OP, I am sorry that you are finding this process frustrating and that you are agonizing over two slightly misaligned melee diamonds. The diamond that you selected is stunning, the setting is gorgeous and very beautifully executed, the polish of the ring is perfect. This seems like a very small issue to be causing you this much frustration and for that I feel for you. But I agree with other posters that you should try to relax! I have been a long time BGD customer and while I sometimes have also had a different opinion on some things, one thing is indisputable - even if they don’t see things your way, they will try to make it right and please you because you are the customer. So if I were you, I would step back, calm down and let them fix your problem before bashing them online for an issue that is quite trivial and certainly fixable. I understand that you spent a lot of money on the ring, but the level of absolute perfection you expect comes at an even higher premium. This is not to say that it is not achievable, but it might take a couple of trials to get there.
I also agree with others that Tiffany and the other big jewelry houses certainly don’t always have “loupe-picky” quality. I have personally tried on a T&Co band that had borderline opaque looking diamonds.

So again, please relax and wait to see the new version of the ring.

ETA: I wanted to add that Brian is not the QC guy, he is the diamond guy. You can talk to him all day about diamonds, but I would address your concern with the setting to Lesley. I believe that she will understand better your issues.

This. Soooo much this.

 

[holeydonut]

This. Soooo much this.

Ehhh if it only were so easy. Imagine the person who is getting the ring thinks a melee fell out. And then imagine and the person who made the ring (his name is on the box) tells you to lower your standards it looks fine.

I’m the middle man in a terrible sandwich. Not a fun place to me IMO.

Simone’s examples of BGD’s prior work is a contributor to why I went with BGD. I’m looking forward to them fixing this trivial issue and not making it a big deal.

 

[soxfan]

Ok, I have to say I'm surprised at everyone saying he shouldn't expect a perfect product "at his price point." The guy paid THIRTY thousand dollars for this ring. Of COURSE he should expect the melee to be seated properly and it SHOULD have been loupe-inspected before it shipped. I shudder to think about what the responses would be if it were a different vendor.....

And yes, I get that the OP is pissed but I don't think he's overreacting. You are all jumping on him about something he can see with his own eyes, NOT with a loupe. He's said that.

I don't know. I have seen stuff like this happen with other vendors and veteran posters and everyone backed up the PS'er. I don't know why this one is so different. If one of the melee went dark on me and it looked like it wasn't there or had fallen out, I would absolutely expect the vendor to correct it. ESPECIALLY if I had spent $30,000.

 

[whitewave]

I hope it works out to your satisfaction. It’s not a museum piece on display. It’s going to be moving around with her fingers and it won’t always look out of place.