After months of research: Black By Brian Gavin Round 1.8 G VVS2 in 810 Collection Platinum Halo

[whitewave]

Ok, I have to say I'm surprised at everyone saying he shouldn't expect a perfect product "at his price point." The guy paid THIRTY thousand dollars for this ring. Of COURSE he should expect the melee to be seated properly and it SHOULD have been loupe-inspected before it shipped. I shudder to think about what the responses would be if it were a different vendor.....

And yes, I get that the OP is pissed but I don't think he's overreacting. You are all jumping on him about something he can see with his own eyes, NOT with a loupe. He's said that.

I don't know. I have seen stuff like this happen with other vendors and veteran posters and everyone backed up the PS'er. I don't know why this one is so different. If one of the melee went dark on me and it looked like it wasn't there or had fallen out, I would absolutely expect the vendor to correct it. ESPECIALLY if I had spent $30,000.

Oh, I agree; some other vendors would be persecuted over this.

 

[holeydonut]

Ok, I have to say I'm surprised at everyone saying he shouldn't expect a perfect product "at his price point." The guy paid THIRTY thousand dollars for this ring. Of COURSE he should expect the melee to be seated properly and it SHOULD have been loupe-inspected before it shipped. I shudder to think about what the responses would be if it were a different vendor.....

And yes, I get that the OP is pissed but I don't think he's overreacting. You are all jumping on him about something he can see with his own eyes, NOT with a loupe. He's said that.

I don't know. I have seen stuff like this happen with other vendors and veteran posters and everyone backed up the PS'er. I don't know why this one is so different. If one of the melee went dark on me and it looked like it wasn't there or had fallen out, I would absolutely expect the vendor to correct it. ESPECIALLY if I had spent $30,000.

Thank you! I know the forum loves their super ideal vendors, and I think most people get a really quality product from Brian Gavin.

Imagine my shock yesterday when I get on a call with Brian, we start off with me gushing over how great his diamond is and 810 design. And I told him his reputation of not settling was why I picked him.

Then he spends the next 5 minutes telling me to lower my expectations.

I was dumbfounded. Are. You. Kidding. Me.

I thought he would just say “We have this in the workshop, we’ll fix it don’t worry.” “Your Fiancé’s going to love it.”

Instead he says I need to lower my fiancé’s expectations. What? I’m not dropping her or my standards on this’s. Brian Gavin’s Team knew this on the onset.

Needless to say... I was not expecting this from Brian Gavin. Somewhat disappointed to be honest. And now I have a very real worry he’s not going to step up his game and fix what some PS-ers describe as a “trivial matter.”

 

[soxfan]

Thank you! I know the forum loves their super ideal vendors, and I think most people get a really quality product from Brian Gavin.

Imagine my shock yesterday when I get on a call with Brian, we start off with me gushing over how great his diamond is and 810 design. And I told him his reputation of not settling was why I picked him.

Then he spends the next 5 minutes telling me to lower my expectations.

I was dumbfounded. Are. You. Kidding. Me.

I thought he would just say “We have this in the workshop, we’ll fix it don’t worry.” “Your Fiancé’s going to love it.”

Instead he says I need to lower my fiancé’s expectations. What? I’m not dropping her or my standards on this’s. Brian Gavin’s Team knew this on the onset.

Needless to say... I was not expecting this from Brian Gavin. Somewhat disappointed to be honest. And now I have a very real worry he’s not going to step up his game and fix what some PS-ers describe as a “trivial matter.”

I think he will. I am SURE plenty of people have alerted him to this thread. It's how it works around here. The vendors will usually step up and do whatever they need to do to keep a PS'er happy. It's an EASY fix. That's why I am surprised at the response you got from BG and from some of the posters here.

I spent $3500 on a 1.5 ctw 5 stone ring from IDJ. There were some issues, and they made the entire ring over to make me happy. So expecting them to fix a couple of melee on a $30,000 ring is NOT being picky and no one should make you feel like it is.

 

[yssie]

BGD is a fantastic, reputable company with beautiful diamonds and a very happy clientele, but sometimes personalities of client and jeweller just don't quite "meld". I personally am one of those people wrt BGD - Brian and I do not communicate effectively.

And that's okay. That does not mean that your concerns will not be objectively evaluated, even when the person the client is "not quite melding with" is the owner/founder. In reading your posts @holeydonut it sounds like one of your biggest concerns is that Brian's opinion trumps evaluation of your ring... that is not the case: your ring will go through whatever due process BGD has in place for situations like this.

I'm honestly a bit bemused by the suggestion that Brian would say anything other than what he did, "fallibility of art" and all... to expect him to say "sorry, our bench isn't capable of impeccable workmanship and finish, but here are some vendors whose work might better suit your expectations" is very unrealistic! Rocky Talky is the (objective) venue through which to get that sort of information. That said, I'm confident your two misaligned melee will be fixed, because

1. It's an easy fix, and
2. As you noted - they got 99% of the rest of those tiny stones right on, and
3. At this point, between your very public box unhappiness and this melee unhappiness, they have extra incentive to make you happy and make you go away.
​

I would recommend that after you receive your repaired ring (again, I'm confident it will be repaired) and confirm the repair is adequate, you do your best not to analyze it for a few weeks I think right now All The Things are that much more pressing and stressful because you literally just received it! If, in a few weeks, you find other issues, I think you'll be able to deal with addressing them with much less anxiety.

 

[holeydonut]

@yssie

While I respect this possible perspective, Brian never couched it that way in our conversation.

I want to believe his bench can fix this, but rule number one of fixing any problem is acknowledging the problem to be fixed.

He simply never admitted to there being a problem at all and wanted me to lower my expectations.

I told him we can see what looks like a dark or missing melee with our eyes (no loupe) and it appears a stone is crooked. And that’s where he could have said “we’ll look at it and fix it.”

Instead he talks to me about how hard it is to make a ring. I know how hard it is to make anything - doesn’t matter if it’s a ring or a car. But that’s also why I selected him as the expert who has an amazing reputation at the pinnacle of his craft and profession for the task.

Edit: yes, I’m throwing this ring into a box and going to get ready for the proposal. I had to do a thorough audit of the ring at first due to his 15 day return cycle.

 

[Ellen]

Ok, I have to say I'm surprised at everyone saying he shouldn't expect a perfect product "at his price point." The guy paid THIRTY thousand dollars for this ring. Of COURSE he should expect the melee to be seated properly and it SHOULD have been loupe-inspected before it shipped. I shudder to think about what the responses would be if it were a different vendor.....

And yes, I get that the OP is pissed but I don't think he's overreacting. You are all jumping on him about something he can see with his own eyes, NOT with a loupe. He's said that.

I don't know. I have seen stuff like this happen with other vendors and veteran posters and everyone backed up the PS'er. I don't know why this one is so different. If one of the melee went dark on me and it looked like it wasn't there or had fallen out, I would absolutely expect the vendor to correct it. ESPECIALLY if I had spent $30,000.

This. Seriously....

And I've had melee off in a ring, and it's quite noticeable, without a loupe, from several inches to more than a foot away. Because the light can't hit it like the others, it becomes quite evident.

OP, I really hope they make things right.

 

[yssie]

I understand why you're frustrated. I really do - I am known to be one of the most nitpicky people PS has seen. I am demanding with regard to workmanship and I am, after a few false starts years and years ago, demanding with regard to quality of communication.

Brian refused to acknowledge his bench's limitations. You can let that conversation negatively impact your enjoyment of a really beautiful piece, or you can accept it as Brian's limitation, look forward to getting your SO's ring back soon, and file your experience away for future jewellery endeavours. Brian is not his bench. Brian does not speak for his bench. He might, if BGD was still a three-person operation, but it isn't and hasn't been for a long time. This is what I was saying earlier. That BGD will most likely fix this particular issue does not change the fact that BGD was the wrong vendor for this project, based on complexity and expectations... Of course, you may not have known that before diving in! Chalk this one up to a learning experience, then, with a price tag of a week or two of angst and maybe a few hundred in shipping - which, believe me, is about as cost-effective learning experiences get

 

[holeydonut]

@yssie I think Brian’s bench is excellent though... The work on this ring is insanely detailed and superb (except for those damn two melees).

When I made this thread, I meant every word. The left side gallery, halo, cradle, shank, shoulders (top view), polish, and just everything was mind blowing good. I was thinking “holy hell, this thing looks better than what I saw in any jewelry store... oh my god Brian is amazing”

Looking at that 810 emerald halo in the other thread, you can see Brian’s team is capable of some jaw dropping stuff.

But man, nothing sucks the wind out of your feel good moments like “hey... did a melee fall out? Look it’s dark here.”

 

[soxfan]

@yssie I think Brian’s bench is excellent though... The work on this ring is insanely detailed and superb (except for those damn two melees).

When I made this thread, I meant every word. The left side gallery, halo, cradle, shank, shoulders (top view), polish, and just everything was mind blowing good. I was thinking “holy hell, this thing looks better than what I saw in any jewelry store... oh my god Brian is amazing”

You posted as such! I read it.

Looking at that 810 emerald halo in the other thread, you can see Brian’s team is capable of some jaw dropping stuff.

But man, nothing sucks the wind out of your feel good moments like “hey... did a melee fall out? Look it’s dark here.”

Exactly. I am sorry this happened and he NEEDS to make sure it gets fixed.

 

[yssie]

@yssie I think Brian’s bench is excellent though... The work on this ring is insanely detailed and superb (except for those damn two melees).

When I made this thread, I meant every word. The left side gallery, halo, cradle, shank, shoulders (top view), polish, and just everything was mind blowing good. I was thinking “holy hell, this thing looks better than what I saw in any jewelry store... oh my god Brian is amazing”

Looking at that 810 emerald halo in the other thread, you can see Brian’s team is capable of some jaw dropping stuff.

But man, nothing sucks the wind out of your feel good moments like “hey... did a melee fall out? Look it’s dark here.”

You bet

I really am confident BGD will fix this. Despite the verbal waffling over it during your conversation. And if, somehow, inexplicably, they don’t/can’t/won’t, PSers will help you find someone else who will!!

 

[holeydonut]

This. Seriously....

And I've had melee off in a ring, and it's quite noticeable, without a loupe, from several inches to more than a foot away. Because the light can't hit it like the others, it becomes quite evident.

OP, I really hope they make things right.

Haha I may need you to talk to Brian!

 

[icy_jade]

@holeydonut
Agree that the misaligned melees are pretty obvious and hope BGD makes it right. But I still want to say that your ring design is really gorgeous and of course good luck with your proposal!

 

[marymm]

AFAIK, rings don't go through loupe inspection at all by the maker and/or maker's QC ... that would almost be absurd, since the rings aren't created under loupe magnification.

OP, wait until you see how BGD handles this matter. If you remain dissatisfied, assuming your 810 setting wasn't modified to the point of being "custom," you may prefer to return the ring and instead propose with a plain solitaire, and then re-commence a halo setting with another vendor.

 

[holeydonut]

AFAIK, rings don't go through loupe inspection at all by the maker and/or maker's QC ... that would almost be absurd, since the rings aren't created under loupe magnification.

OP, wait until you see how BGD handles this matter. If you remain dissatisfied, assuming your 810 setting wasn't modified to the point of being "custom," you may prefer to return the ring and instead propose with a plain solitaire, and then re-commence a halo setting with another vendor.

I just want the right side gallery to look as clean as the left side ... no loupe required.

If there were crooked melee everywhere, I think I’d just chalk up the issue to a limitation on what BGD could accomplish. But, the stellar left side exposes the gap-issue on the right side. Maybe something magical happened on the ring where everything just happens to look immaculate on the left side due to random chance. The left side looks really good.

Again... no loupe required... I just don’t want to hear “did a melee fall out” when she looks at the ring’s gallery.

 

[msop04]

...I'm confident your two misaligned melee will be fixed, because

1. It's an easy fix, and
2. As you noted - they got 99% of the rest of those tiny stones right on, and
3. At this point, between your very public box unhappiness and this melee unhappiness, they have extra incentive to make you happy and make you go away
​

​

Agreed. As was stated previously, Brian is not his bench. You've seen what they can do, so just ask that they fix those things, and *bingo* - done.

 

[whitewave]

What is the status of this?

 

[holeydonut]

The request is with Brian's Workbench... they'll get back to me when there's an update.

Based on Brian's comments to me last Friday, this isn't a trivial realignment. I know PS-ers think this is an easy-peasy thing to look at, but Brian made it clear to me it might necessitate re-casting the entire setting.

At that point I don't think it'll be worth it to address the melee that only looks like it had fallen out, but is actually still there. I'm not kidding, this "trivial" matter is the only topic I've ever heard from BGD that my expectations may be too high. And the owner of the company had to call me himself to describe the challenge.

I guess the best way I can internalize this situation is that this ring is way too complicated for its own good haha. But I'm just a layperson who thought melee was easy since the rest of the ring looks so stunning. I'm probably not able to grasp the nuances that Brian is aware of and how hard it was to make the melee on the rest of the ring look the way it does.

I'm only guessing here, but maybe I'm at a point where the amount of work to address the slight melee crookedness is more than the work Brian Gavin would typically spend to differentiate a AGS 000 diamond from a Black by Brian Gavin diamond. I just don't know how to explain this to the SO... since we thought it'd be a simple-no-sweat thing.

 

[stylistbydesign]

It did occur to me, that everyone can have an "off" day. Perhaps some of what BG expressed about the box and ring was due to other things going on. After the journey you've taken, and all the thought you put into this, I'm really hoping the final ring is one you and your FF both love! If nothing else, this whole process is a testament to your love and dedication for her. Crossing my fingers!

 

[holeydonut]

It did occur to me, that everyone can have an "off" day. Perhaps some of what BG expressed about the box and ring was due to other things going on. After the journey you've taken, and all the thought you put into this, I'm really hoping the final ring is one you and your FF both love! If nothing else, this whole process is a testament to your love and dedication for her. Crossing my fingers!

Good news on this... Lesley contacted me and indicated the issue that the SO and I saw was definitely noticeable and caused a melee to go dark at certain angles. She confirmed their Bench was able to make an attempt at a fix for the right-side shoulder on both sides. So yeah, I'm glad we weren't just seeing ghosts.

BG is out of town for a few days but will make his own QC inspection when he’s back.

From what I gather, Lesley and I don't know why...

1) BG would spend so much time telling me about how the fix to the melee might not be possible to a reasonable outcome, or could require recasting the whole setting. It sounds like the issue could have been a rather routine fix that didn't even need to involve Brian (to the extent he'd request a phone call) to begin with.

2) Why BG didn’t initially ok his team to send out his normal Signature box to me and instead requested to speak with me specifically about the box request. I guess the Signature box is a downgrade from the Black by Brian Gavin box from a cost and design perspective. But I perceived it as an upgrade in terms of it having a satin finish instead of waxed card-stock. But still, probably something that didn't need to involve Brian.


Anyway, until Brian takes a look, I won't know for sure. And I'll end up with 3 extra ring boxes from Amazon and Etsy that are going to sit in a drawer somewhere or end up in the trash

 

[stylistbydesign]

Good news on this... Lesley contacted me and indicated the issue that the SO and I saw was definitely noticeable and caused a melee to go dark at certain angles. She confirmed their Bench was able to make an attempt at a fix for the right-side shoulder on both sides. So yeah, I'm glad we weren't just seeing ghosts.

BG is out of town for a few days but will make his own QC inspection when he’s back.

From what I gather, Lesley and I don't know why...

1) BG would spend so much time telling me about how the fix to the melee might not be possible to a reasonable outcome, or could require recasting the whole setting. It sounds like the issue could have been a rather routine fix that didn't even need to involve Brian (to the extent he'd request a phone call) to begin with.

2) Why BG didn’t initially ok his team to send out his normal Signature box to me and instead requested to speak with me specifically about the box request. I guess the Signature box is a downgrade from the Black by Brian Gavin box from a cost and design perspective. But I perceived it as an upgrade in terms of it having a satin finish instead of waxed card-stock. But still, probably something that didn't need to involve Brian.


Anyway, until Brian takes a look, I won't know for sure. And I'll end up with 3 extra ring boxes from Amazon and Etsy that are going to sit in a drawer somewhere or end up in the trash

Sounds like a good outcome! I get the feeling that if you hang around PS, you'll find a use for those extra ring boxes.

 

[LinSF]

Fantastic! I can't wait to see some hand shots!

 

[Ellen]

Good to hear. I'm confident it will turn out just fine. Can't wait to see hand shots.

 

[telephone89]

I'm glad to hear it seems its resolved. Can't wait to see some real handshots!
I'm very unimpressed with some ps-ers poo-pooing expectations because the ring was "only" $30k. How effing rude of them to try to belittle you and your budget. That is NOT a small budget and this was NOT a trivial issue. SMH.

 

[yssie]

Very glad to hear that you are happier with this round of customer service and I hope the ring meets all your expectations when you receive it!

I believe I understand why Brian wanted to get on the phone with you and have a personal conversation regarding leveling of expectations. A conversation which he handled poorly, it sounded like. That reason is... the two melee happened to be the targets of your dissatisfaction, but they were not the only sources of imperfection that a more-particular-than-usual customer might have chosen to focus on. And since he had no way of knowing whether the misaligned melee were the only complaints or the beginnings of a list... I suspect that conversation was Brian’s (again, poorly handled) attempt to forestall further crises.

What he should have done was exactly what L did: yes, I see this problem, and yes, we can remediate this problem. I look forward to your thoughts when you receive it

 

[peacechick]

Sometimes great designers/artisans/artists are not necessarily great communicators, and that’s why they need a team to buffer between the client and them, i.e. customer service. Some of the best designers I know (handbag, dress designers) are people who are wonderful at custom design but who have a lot of pride. If you criticize their asthetic, they take it personally and bristle. I think that is probably what has happened here... and a reasonable fix got blown out of proportion, and instead of reassuring the customer, feathers got ruffled.

But in any case, I’m glad things will be resolved!

 

[pearaffair]

Sometimes great designers/artisans/artists are not necessarily great communicators, and that’s why they need a team to buffer between the client and them, i.e. customer service. Some of the best designers I know (handbag, dress designers) are people who are wonderful at custom design but who have a lot of pride. If you criticize their asthetic, they take it personally and bristle. I think that is probably what has happened here... and a reasonable fix got blown out of proportion, and instead of reassuring the customer, feathers got ruffled.

But in any case, I’m glad things will be resolved!

That’s a good guess. It adds up!

 

[holeydonut]

Sounds like a good outcome! I get the feeling that if you hang around PS, you'll find a use for those extra ring boxes.

Ring arrived today, and indeed the repair was executed and things look great!

From what I understand... one of the melee stones set on the right shoulder was the wrong size, so they took out the offender and sized in the correct diameter melee. And a melee on the other side of the ring's right shoulder just wasn't seated properly, and they were able to re-seat it.

The ring had the melee holes and bead & bright melee settings cast into the structure, so the CAD wasn't the issue, and the ring didn't have to be re-made or anything too drastic.

I'm going to hide this ring away and not look at it until the big day . I kind of just want this ring-buying ordeal to be over.

I can see why the vast majority of men opt to go with simple solitaire settings showcasing the best diamond they can find. If the future wife gets involved in setting expectations, this process is harrowing and an all around exercise in losing one's mind.

One last thing... Lesley threw in a bunch of boxes in the return shipment. I set up a "vote for which box to use" poll in the Hangout forum.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/poll-which-box-to-use-when-popping-the-question.243964/

 

[Ellen]

Ring arrived today, and indeed the repair was executed and things look great!

From what I understand... one of the melee stones set on the right shoulder was the wrong size, so they took out the offender and sized in the correct diameter melee. And a melee on the other side of the ring's right shoulder just wasn't seated properly, and they were able to re-seat it.

The ring had the melee holes and bead & bright melee settings cast into the structure, so the CAD wasn't the issue, and the ring didn't have to be re-made or anything too drastic.

I'm going to hide this ring away and not look at it until the big day . I kind of just want this ring-buying ordeal to be over.

I can see why the vast majority of men opt to go with simple solitaire settings showcasing the best diamond they can find. If the future wife gets involved in setting expectations, this process is harrowing and an all around exercise in losing one's mind.

One last thing... Lesley threw in a bunch of boxes in the return shipment. I set up a "vote for which box to use" poll in the Hangout forum.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/poll-which-box-to-use-when-popping-the-question.243964/

This, is a good idea.

I am SO happy everything turned out well, though I was pretty confident it would anyway. Can't wait to hear about popping the question. Do you have a specific event planned, or are you playing it by ear?

 

[soxfan]

GOOD! Glad it's fixed!!

 

[MissGotRocks]

So happy for you - love happy endings!