An unpleasant preloved purchase

[pwsg07]

Hello all,

I have bought a pink sapphire from a PSer last week and I am not happy with this experience.

1. I have confirmed with the PSer that the pink sapphire has no feather or crack before purchasing the stone. When the sapphire arrived. I checked stone with the loupe and found a feather on the girdle.

2. The seller insured the stone and claims $1400. But I have only paid $1150 for the stone. I had to pay more tax than I was supposed to pay. Total tax and service I have paid is $238.26 CAD.

3. I have hard time communicating with this seller. The seller actually sent the stone before I pay the stone without letting me know in advance. She just sent me an email that she have already shipped the stone. I paid her PayPal FF as she desired. After I have received the stone on April 9, I have sent her an email telling her there is a feather on the girdle. But she has no response so far.

I didn't bargain the price because I want both of us to be happy. I just want to share my experience so that other PSer will not have to deal with the same situation. Thank you for reading.

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

I'm really sorry you're unhappy about the purchase.

Do you still like the color of the stone? I've had an emerald that looked like it was going to crumble but it set just fine so I think you can still set it if you still think it's a pretty stone.

 

[mrs-b]

Hmmm. IS that actually a feather? It looks more like a microscopic scratch to me. Certainly not anything that would affect the integrity of the stone and something I, as a seller, probably wouldn't even know was there.

The insurance value is meant to represent replacement value, isn't it? So I think $1400 was conservative. Did you ask the seller to insure it? As for not bargaining the price -$1150 is a killer price for that stone, so I think you got a good deal anyway.

I'm sorry if this isn't the sort of response you were looking for, but I'm not really sure of the purpose of your post. I hope you do go on to set your sapphire; it would look stunning in a halo!

 

[YadaYadaYada]

You might want to move this to colored stones, maybe the folks there could help identify what this is or direct you to someone who can.

I think the first step is to figure out exactly what you're dealing with (feather, scratch etc) and then you can figure out where to go from there.

 

[caf]

This is why I rarely do PP F&F. You have no recourse with the seller or through PP. But I do agree with @StephanieLynn that you should ask mods to move this to CS. Then figure out what you’re dealing with re: the stone. Is is a feather? Is it something else! The experts in CS may be able to help more. Also post the photos that the seller posted.

 

[arkieb1]

Well the good thing is if you end up keeping the stone it's in a spot where you can probably easily polish it out whatever it is...

 

[pwsg07]

I'm really sorry you're unhappy about the purchase.

Do you still like the color of the stone? I've had an emerald that looked like it was going to crumble but it set just fine so I think you can still set it if you still think it's a pretty stone.

Hmmm. IS that actually a feather? It looks more like a microscopic scratch to me. Certainly not anything that would affect the integrity of the stone and something I, as a seller, probably wouldn't even know was there.

The insurance value is meant to represent replacement value, isn't it? So I think $1400 was conservative. Did you ask the seller to insure it? As for not bargaining the price -$1150 is a killer price for that stone, so I think you got a good deal anyway.

I'm sorry if this isn't the sort of response you were looking for, but I'm not really sure of the purpose of your post. I hope you do go on to set your sapphire; it would look stunning in a halo!

You might want to move this to colored stones, maybe the folks there could help identify what this is or direct you to someone who can.

I think the first step is to figure out exactly what you're dealing with (feather, scratch etc) and then you can figure out where to go from there.

This is why I rarely do PP F&F. You have no recourse with the seller or through PP. But I do agree with @StephanieLynn that you should ask mods to move this to CS. Then figure out what you’re dealing with re: the stone. Is is a feather? Is it something else! The experts in CS may be able to help more. Also post the photos that the seller posted.

Well the good thing is if you end up keeping the stone it's in a spot where you can probably easily polish it out whatever it is...

Thank you for your inputs. I am quite sure this is a feather and it has a depth. It is very hard to take a microscopic because I am not professional in taking photos with inclusions. I finally could take a photo of the feather with a loupe and my mini iPad. This is the best photo I have. I specifically asked the seller "any feather, cracks, or chips" and she replied "no feathers, cracks or chips and no inclusions notable with a 10x loupe"

I didn't' ask to insure the stone. I think the USPS is very reliable and I have not problem with USPS so far.

I think the stone is pretty but it is not what the seller has described.

 

[missy]

I am sorry your purchase isn't what you hoped it would be. Is the seller being non responsive now? If you are warning others of your bad experience it would probably be informative to know who the seller is. And this is another reason to not use F&F for a purchase. I think it is better to pay the difference ourselves and have buyer protection. Hope the PSer who sold this to you can make it right by either offering to take it back (if that is what you want) or would giving you a partial refund make this right for you? What is your desired goal?

 

[tyty333]

Do you have a top view of whatever you are seeing?

 

[marymm]

OP, is your loupe actually a 10x loupe, or is it stronger? I have two loupes myself and only one of them is 10X ...

Although seller sold it to you for $1150, her purchase receipt may actually reflect $1400. When I ship an item I have sold preloved, I insure for the amount set forth in my documentation ... IOW if I bought a stone for $1500, I insure it for $1500 when shipping even if the preloved buyer paid me less than $1500.

 

[Rfisher]

I would be curious of what is the time elapsed between your email to what you are considering as a no response?

Not discussing specifics like you didn’t want to pay any insurance and it shipping before you paid, is unfortunate.
I hope the two of you can come to an agreement that satisfies you both.

 

[mrs-b]

If that's a feather, or a mark of any kind, it's still so small to my eye as to be something easily missed by a seller. I know who the seller was, and I'd bet she inspected the gem and never saw it.

 

[mrs-b]

Can someone pls put a circle around the mark I think I'm looking at, to make sure we're talking about the same thing? To me, it just seems so incredibly small....

 

[Sunstorm]

OP I personally see something extremely minute here like a polish scratch and no feather. Do not see enough pix but looks like a gorgeous stone based on what I am seeing. Do you not like the stone, changed your mind or do you otherwise love the stone?

Are you sure this is not just buyer’s remorse or a fear of inclusions? I mean even I got a heart attack once not being sure a natural was not a chip. It was many years ago but sometimes even I can react the same.

As to the Insurance why do you think there was malice there? To me this is a pretty standard way of Insuring the true value of a beautiful stone and making sure neither of you incurs a loss. Some people are more wary than others but even when I buy and get stones shipped, it is usually the seller that decides on whether the stone is sent with full indication of value. If they so decide, I respect their decision. Sometimes you can take a risk but some people do not want to and I fully respect that. Look at it like you paid a small amount for your peace of mind as well but it sounds like you got a great discount!

I can tell you that some Sellers indicate there is no refund and I do understand this especially in the case of private Sellers. They would have to take a big blow were you to just change you mind and perhaps they used the money for something else already?

 

[Rfisher]

Just an aside - as @Sunstorm view in shipping insurance is reflective to the trade maybe?
as P2P sale,
If I’m a buyer and I indicate I don’t want to pay for shipping insurance - that liability is on me, not the seller.
If I’m the seller and the buyer indicates to me they don’t want to pay for shipping insurance, that liability is on them not me.

or am I mistaken, it can and does really fall back on the seller.....

 

[soxfan]

I don't see a feather? And I'm sure she insured it in case it got lost to protect her- I never send anything uninsured because if it's lost, then I don't have the item anymore OR money to replace it. If it didn't show up, you'd ask for a refund, correct? That is why sellers insure stuff when they sell it.

 

[Lisa Loves Shiny]

I am sorry you are unhappy with the sapphire. I do not see a feather in your pics.

 

[MollyMalone]

As someone who's only been a buyer using PayPal, I have a question for those experienced with being a seller like @marymm and @soxfan

• Leaving aside the fact that it seems remarkable to me that a seller would send off a $1000+ item before the money lands in their PayPal account (I sure wouldn't do that!), how would a seller know where to send the item before the purchaser has paid for it?

I've always thought that sellers aren't able to see my full name and address until they receive the confirmation of payment from PayPal.

 

[Tekate]

hmmm are you SURE this is a feather? dang I had to blow my screen up to even see it.. if he/she will take it back, send it back.

 

[YadaYadaYada]

@MollyMalone, I've sold several things through PayPal and the buyer's address is provided on the packing slip AFTER the money is sent. As far as I am aware there is no way to see that information beforehand.

Maybe the buyer and seller had a prior transaction and the seller was able to get the address that way.

 

[soxfan]

As someone who's only been a buyer using PayPal, I have a question for those experienced with being a seller like @marymm and @soxfan

• Leaving aside the fact that it seems remarkable to me that a seller would send off a $1000+ item before the money lands in their PayPal account (I sure wouldn't do that!), how would a seller know where to send the item before the purchaser has paid for it?

I've always thought that sellers aren't able to see my full name and address until they receive the confirmation of payment from PayPal.

I usually ask for the address in an email, wait for payment, then ship as soon as I can.

 

[yssie]

Sometimes sellers miss things. I just had this experience myself - I sold some pearls that had issues with the drill holes; I hadn't thought to check the drill holes. The buyer returned them, I updated my description for disclosure, they went to a new home. "No returns" on a listing never applies (should never apply!) to an "oops, seller missed something" situation - if something is not as described then a buyer should be able to send it back at no expense if desired.

IMO in this case - if @pwsg07 is using a 10x loupe and explicitly asked if the girdle was clean at 10x, that's a binary yes or no question and the answer is "no". But the problem really does look tiny - I would definitely believe the seller most likely just missed it, and I also don't believe it should impact preloved sale price.

@pwsg07 unclear to me when you emailed regarding the damage, but if it was recent - give it a few more days. If you emailed on April 9 and still haven't heard back then yes, IMO that's a flag.

 

[marymm]

As someone who's only been a buyer using PayPal, I have a question for those experienced with being a seller like @marymm and @soxfan

• Leaving aside the fact that it seems remarkable to me that a seller would send off a $1000+ item before the money lands in their PayPal account (I sure wouldn't do that!), how would a seller know where to send the item before the purchaser has paid for it?

I've always thought that sellers aren't able to see my full name and address until they receive the confirmation of payment from PayPal.

I had the same question -- in my own experience using PayPal, I do not receive any address info until receipt of the PayPal transaction confirmation email.

However, this transaction was via PayPal F&F and my experience with F&F is that no address is provided by PayPal even in the confirming email; I always have to separately request the shipping address from the purchaser.

I have never shipped out anything prior to payment. If I were buying preloved and a seller shipped out an item to me prior to me actually sending payment, it would certainly make me wonder (unless of course this was discussed and agreed to).

The magnified photo posted by OP does seem to show something although I could not definitively say what it is; it might be a wisp/rutile/silk-type natural inclusion or a scratch or a feather or other inclusion.

OP states the seller confirmed there was no feather or crack in the stone ... but I am curious whether seller was confirming the stone eye-clean (so no eye-visible feather/crack) or if seller explicitly represented it was loupe-clean? An eye-clean stone could well have loupe-visible inclusions...

 

[pwsg07]

Thanks for your input.

My loupe is !0X. I have already asked her that if there is any "feather" and she said no feather. I have already quote part of the conversation in my previous post. It is a feather for sure because it reaches part of the crown. It is very hard to see face up without a loupe, but it is visible under 10X loupe. I am not asking for a loupe clean stone because sapphire is hardly loupe clean. I just want a stone with no feather. It is a stone cut by Jeff White. He can avoid a polishing mark. With my limited photography skill, I cannot take a better photo than this photo. I can show any PSer in Vancouver to prove that the stone has a feather not a polishing mark.

I found the feather right after I have received the stone on April 9. And I have sent an email to inform the seller on the same day on April 9. Until now I have not received any response from her. If she has missed any email, she probably can see my concern here. Today is April 18

I live in Canada and she lives in the States. She needs my address to give me the quote on the postage. That’s why she knows my address in advance.

If she want to insure the parcel she can discuss with me in advance. She just did everything without my agreement.

I know I probably will not get any response from her but she is selling another sapphire. I wish the next person who buys from her gets what he/she wants.

 

[Starfacet]

Thanks for your input.

My loupe is !0X. I have already asked her that if there is any "feather" and she said no feather. I have already quote part of the conversation in my previous post. It is a feather for sure because it reaches part of the crown. It is very hard to see face up without a loupe, but it is visible under 10X loupe. I am not asking for a loupe clean stone because sapphire is hardly loupe clean. I just want a stone with no feather. It is a stone cut by Jeff White. He can avoid a polishing mark. With my limited photography skill, I cannot take a better photo than this photo. I can show any PSer in Vancouver to prove that the stone has a feather not a polishing mark.

I found the feather right after I have received the stone on April 9. And I have sent an email to inform the seller on the same day on April 9. Until now I have not received any response from her. If she has missed any email, she probably can see my concern here. Today is April 18

I live in Canada and she lives in the States. She needs my address to give me the quote on the postage. That’s why she knows my address in advance.

If she want to insure the parcel she can discuss with me in advance. She just did everything without my agreement.

I know I probably will not get any response from her but she is selling another sapphire. I wish the next person who buys from her gets what he/she wants.

Yeah, I'm in love with her other sapphire. But I'm with the others who don't see a feather.

 

[gingercurls]

Hi pwsg07,

I'm sorry that you are going through this. I always ask this same question you did about any feathers or fractures when the stone is being viewed with a loupe. I would also be upset in the situation that you are in. I've sold several stones through LT and part of my listing include the caveat about no returns because I am a private seller. However, I would definitely take back something if the buyer found an issue that I was unaware of. I hesitated about posting this response because I haven't posted in a long time and because I'm honestly a little surprised at how some other posters are responding. If this were an issue with a vendor, I'm sure you would be getting a lot more sympathy.

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

I can see both sides here and this is why I would never ever sell a second hand stone or ring (lol yay for my sister).

I personally would miss a bunch of inclusions unless they are black spots or giant chips. So there is no way I can confirm to a buyer there is no feather. If I did I genuinely would not be able to see anything even if there is one floating around somewhere. Just easier not to sell and get into these dramas.

I can see why the buyer is upset. If they can see something and expected to see nothing they will be upset.

If you are like me and stacked up against someone who is very vigilant the transaction is pretty much doomed.

 

[MelloYello8]

I can see both sides here and this is why I would never ever sell a second hand stone or ring (lol yay for my sister).

I’m the same way. I’m terrified of selling anything of significant value, particularly if it was a stone. But, I’m also terrified of buying expensive stones second hand.

 

[gregchang35]

I am sorry that you have had this experience...

I had a similar situation where there was a feather that was unknown to seller. There were taxes and shipping to manage as well. It took over a month to get to me. There were 2 flea bites, which I knew about but, not the feather.

it was upsetting. The seller had no idea on the feather and I believe her. But, it was still upsetting that the stone had a surface reaching feather, a bit deeper and much longer than yours. I can see the feather you are referring to. however, it is really tiny in the scheme of things- very much smaller than what I had on my stone, if that is any help. And, I suspect a quick polish with negligible loss of weight, will sort it out. Or it could be hidden in the design of the setting- under a claw/ bezel etc.

So...it seems there are 2views on the feather on your stone. Some will see it, and some won’t. How much it bothers you is the issue.

I loved, and still love my stone... so that trumped what I felt for what was upsetting. That was how I rationalised the purchase and how I rationalised all my purchases- do I love it , or not. If I like it, I don’t get it. I need to love it.

My first setter was afraid to set the diamond with the deep and long feather. So, we found a diamond polisher on the other side of my country. It lost little bit of weight, but...I got a better/ safer stone to set. It took a few attempts at making the ring. I had to change jewelers, and the final setter told me that he could have hidden that feather safely....ugh- it can be considered a ‘waste of money’ or an investment to polish the diamond. now I know that when it is gifted to one of me kids, they can safely pull that diamond out and set it how they like.

I love wearing that ring.

well- that is a long story to say: think about the stone and what is it that you want?

1) do you still love the stone? This is the most important question to answer.
2) does the price reflect what you would have purchased it elsewhere
3) what are your jewelry plans for the stone
4) can that feather be incorporated/ hidden with the design
5) does that feather pose a structural integrity issue?
6) how mind clean is it for you to accept it and wear it without discourse?
7) you sent email on the 9April. Today it is the 19th.. Easter was in the middle of that, and I would have expected an answer from the vendor. She could also say there is no feather when she viewed the stone. What are your options then? It’s not as described- but she didn’t know about it.
8 ) is there a returns period?
9) what are the desputes/ resolutions that can be attained for this stone
10) insurance- yes that would have been nice to have the discussion with an agreed outcome. However, I am doubtful that there would be recourse on that. If a return was available- I suspect the vendor would want it insured as well.
11) do you want a partial refund?
12) do you want to return

Once again, am so sorry to hear of your experience... and I am hopeful that a resolution can be achieved with both parties or within yourself.
And, I do apologise for my very long post.
Hugs... and stay safe.

 

[MaisOuiMadame]

I can see both sides here and this is why I would never ever sell a second hand stone or ring (lol yay for my sister).

I personally would miss a bunch of inclusions unless they are black spots or giant chips. So there is no way I can confirm to a buyer there is no feather. If I did I genuinely would not be able to see anything even if there is one floating around somewhere. Just easier not to sell and get into these dramas.

I can see why the buyer is upset. If they can see something and expected to see nothing they will be upset.

If you are like me and stacked up against someone who is very vigilant the transaction is pretty much doomed.

Yeah, that ist me as well !!