And the drama continues...

[wreckem]

I think my fiancee is going to have to get glasses for far sightedness. At 40, this is definitely a new problem for him and he said this event has made him realize it's probably getting to be time. Thing is, he already has glasses/contacts but not for far sightedness (which he was definitely wearing every time he looked at the ring), so he is going to need bifocals.

I'm far-sighted and it's very likely that without my glasses, I wouldn't be able to clearly see such a spot. There is now the other issue of how to politely tell the jeweler that he might need some glasses too

I'm wondering if the jeweler knows its there but his definition of "eye clean" is not my definition? My definition is can't see anything from the top with the naked eye no matter how close it is to my face and no matter what the lighting conditions are. I'm not as crazy about what I can see from the side - as long as its not wildly obvious. Maybe he was thinking, as some other posters said, that eye clean means clean from 8-10 inches away?

Uh, that is what eye clean means. There is no industry standard, but the industry average for eye clean is viewing the diamond ~8" away from a top down view with 20/20 vision. What you think it means does not matter, because that is not what the term means. What you want is mind clean. And as such I suggest VS1, probably higher.

WF
"No inclusions visible face-up at a distance of 8-10 inches in natural lighting to a person with 20/20 vision."

BGD
""Eye-Clean" is a term used to describe a diamond which has no visible inclusions to the unaided eye of a person with 20/20 vision at a distance of 8 to 10 inches in the face-up position in natural daylight. "

GOG
"Half an arm’s length in distance or roughly 15” using diffuse/ambient/office lighting and direct/spot lighting and 20/20 vision."

Wink Jones
"No inclusions visible face-up at a distance of 8-10 inches in natural lighting to a person with 20/20 vision"

I don't really need to go on. But here is an article, https://www.pricescope.com/journal/what_eye_clean_diamond........

 

[Lightfoot]

Uh, that is what eye clean means. There is no industry standard, but the industry average for eye clean is viewing the diamond ~8" away from a top down view with 20/20 vision. What you think it means does not matter, because that is not what the term means. What you want is mind clean. And as such I suggest VS1, probably higher.

WF
"No inclusions visible face-up at a distance of 8-10 inches in natural lighting to a person with 20/20 vision."

BGD
""Eye-Clean" is a term used to describe a diamond which has no visible inclusions to the unaided eye of a person with 20/20 vision at a distance of 8 to 10 inches in the face-up position in natural daylight. "

GOG
"Half an arm’s length in distance or roughly 15” using diffuse/ambient/office lighting and direct/spot lighting and 20/20 vision."

Wink Jones
"No inclusions visible face-up at a distance of 8-10 inches in natural lighting to a person with 20/20 vision"

I don't really need to go on. But here is an article, https://www.pricescope.com/journal/what_eye_clean_diamond.........

From your own cited sources, eye-clean could be anything from 8 up to 15 inches. From the PS Journal article you incorrectly linked (https://www.pricescope.com/journal/what_eye_clean_diamond), it says:

"There are several threads discussing the definition of “eye clean.” On the surface, it seems like a fairly straightforward concept, but what constitutes eye clean varies with both consumers and vendors. Rather than try to define the subjective, Pricescope has asked contributing vendors, appraisers, and experts to give us their company definitions of eye clean in an effort to improve communication from vendor to consumer."

And who knows what this jeweler's definition of eye-clean is. Clearly 300 has good vision - if she could see it from 8 inches away but her jeweler and fiance couldn't see it from 15 inches away, what happens then? I will tell you - exactly what should always happen regardless of the "industry average" (which clearly can vary) - seller and consumer should communicate to make sure they are on the same page and the consumer gets something they are happy with. I'm sure 300 will do this moving forward.

 

[zip99]

In my experience, if you have very good eyes, know where to look for the most visible inclusion, and stare for a few seconds, you will likely see something if the diamond is in the si range, especially if the diamond is loose.

That's not to say that you won't find an si-ranged diamond that is eye-clean based on the standards I describe above. But I looked at a lot of si diamonds recently and don't recall seeing one.

 

[wreckem]

Uh, that is what eye clean means. There is no industry standard, but the industry average for eye clean is viewing the diamond ~8" away from a top down view with 20/20 vision. What you think it means does not matter, because that is not what the term means. What you want is mind clean. And as such I suggest VS1, probably higher.

WF
"No inclusions visible face-up at a distance of 8-10 inches in natural lighting to a person with 20/20 vision."

BGD
""Eye-Clean" is a term used to describe a diamond which has no visible inclusions to the unaided eye of a person with 20/20 vision at a distance of 8 to 10 inches in the face-up position in natural daylight. "

GOG
"Half an arm’s length in distance or roughly 15” using diffuse/ambient/office lighting and direct/spot lighting and 20/20 vision."

Wink Jones
"No inclusions visible face-up at a distance of 8-10 inches in natural lighting to a person with 20/20 vision"

I don't really need to go on. But here is an article, https://www.pricescope.com/journal/what_eye_clean_diamond...........

From your own cited sources, eye-clean could be anything from 8 up to 15 inches. From the PS Journal article you incorrectly linked (https://www.pricescope.com/journal/what_eye_clean_diamond), it says:

"There are several threads discussing the definition of “eye clean.” On the surface, it seems like a fairly straightforward concept, but what constitutes eye clean varies with both consumers and vendors. Rather than try to define the subjective, Pricescope has asked contributing vendors, appraisers, and experts to give us their company definitions of eye clean in an effort to improve communication from vendor to consumer."

And who knows what this jeweler's definition of eye-clean is. Clearly 300 has good vision - if she could see it from 8 inches away but her jeweler and fiance couldn't see it from 15 inches away, what happens then? I will tell you - exactly what should always happen regardless of the "industry average" (which clearly can vary) - seller and consumer should communicate to make sure they are on the same page and the consumer gets something they are happy with. I'm sure 300 will do this moving forward.

See but that is the problem, she assumes that eye clean is something that it is not. She told her fiance eye clean. I'm sure the jeweler uses the some rough range and 20/20 vision. Jeweler and fiance had nothing to go off of but eye clean, thats what they did, and this is where everything ended up.

She needs to go pick out the diamond herself and quit making the fiance jump through hoops with unclear information on what she wants. Because that is all the fiance has had from the get go.

 

[MyDiamondSparkles]

Yep, you gotta go look at those eye clean diamonds, because as you've heard there is no standard definition of eye clean.

I've seen plenty of eye clean Si's in my life. I have also (amazingly enough) seen two eye clean S12's. One of the Si2's was a 3 carat marquise cut, I looked at it through a loop and saw nothing, in fact I commented to the jeweler about how I couldn't believe it was an Si2. Then I flipped it over tot he back side and there was a very large carbon inclusion...totally amazing that through the loop you could not see that carbon inclusion from the front or the sides. I didn't end up buying it, but really once that diamond was set no one would ever know it has any kind of inclusion.

The second eye clean Si2 I own. It is also a marquise cut, 3.78 carats. It was sold to me as an Si1-Si2, but came back from GIA as an Si2. I would normally never consider an Si2 at all, but this thing is eye clean and I am talking from all sides and at 1 inch away from my eagle eyes. It has a small could, and a few needles--I'm not sure why it is graded as an Si2, but I figured I'd never be able to find another diamond that clean, that large and at that price (seemed to be priced before the prices went way up) so I kept it and I do love it.

That being said, eye clean Si1 and Si2's are needles in haystacks, so be prepared to do a lot of looking or go up a clarity grade or two.

So then you get to the mind clean issue. Knowing the inlcusion is there, even if they can't see it their your eyes bothers a lot of people. Some buy Iternally flawless diamonds because of this, and some decide to drop to lower clarities so they can please both their mind and their wallets.

Hugs,
MDS

 

[300GCP]

Yep, you gotta go look at those eye clean diamonds, because as you've heard there is no standard definition of eye clean.

I've seen plenty of eye clean Si's in my life. I have also (amazingly enough) seen two eye clean S12's. One of the Si2's was a 3 carat marquise cut, I looked at it through a loop and saw nothing, in fact I commented to the jeweler about how I couldn't believe it was an Si2. Then I flipped it over tot he back side and there was a very large carbon inclusion...totally amazing that through the loop you could not see that carbon inclusion from the front or the sides. I didn't end up buying it, but really once that diamond was set no one would ever know it has any kind of inclusion.

The second eye clean Si2 I own. It is also a marquise cut, 3.78 carats. It was sold to me as an Si1-Si2, but came back from GIA as an Si2. I would normally never consider an Si2 at all, but this thing is eye clean and I am talking from all sides and at 1 inch away from my eagle eyes. It has a small could, and a few needles--I'm not sure why it is graded as an Si2, but I figured I'd never be able to find another diamond that clean, that large and at that price (seemed to be priced before the prices went way up) so I kept it and I do love it.

That being said, eye clean Si1 and Si2's are needles in haystacks, so be prepared to do a lot of looking or go up a clarity grade or two.

So then you get to the mind clean issue. Knowing the inlcusion is there, even if they can't see it their your eyes bothers a lot of people. Some buy Iternally flawless diamonds because of this, and some decide to drop to lower clarities so they can please both their mind and their wallets.

Hugs,
MDS

So, would it be safe to say that an eye clean SI would have inclusions that are on the sides of the diamond or on the bottom?

Here is a very newbie question - on a GIA plot, if there were inclusions on the bottom or the sides of the pavilion, where would they show up? I don't know how to read the plot, really.

Also, I definitely don't need to be so picky as to require a flawless diamond. I had a VS1 diamond before and literally couldn't see a thing on it (although I only examined it intently once or twice, because that was enough to satisfy me that I couldn't see anything).

 

[risingsun]

I think my fiancee is going to have to get glasses for far sightedness. At 40, this is definitely a new problem for him and he said this event has made him realize it's probably getting to be time. Thing is, he already has glasses/contacts but not for far sightedness (which he was definitely wearing every time he looked at the ring), so he is going to need bifocals.

I'm far-sighted and it's very likely that without my glasses, I wouldn't be able to clearly see such a spot. There is now the other issue of how to politely tell the jeweler that he might need some glasses too

I'm wondering if the jeweler knows its there but his definition of "eye clean" is not my definition? My definition is can't see anything from the top with the naked eye no matter how close it is to my face and no matter what the lighting conditions are. I'm not as crazy about what I can see from the side - as long as its not wildly obvious. Maybe he was thinking, as some other posters said, that eye clean means clean from 8-10 inches away?

Uh, that is what eye clean means. There is no industry standard, but the industry average for eye clean is viewing the diamond ~8" away from a top down view with 20/20 vision. What you think it means does not matter, because that is not what the term means. What you want is mind clean. And as such I suggest VS1, probably higher.

WF
"No inclusions visible face-up at a distance of 8-10 inches in natural lighting to a person with 20/20 vision."

BGD
""Eye-Clean" is a term used to describe a diamond which has no visible inclusions to the unaided eye of a person with 20/20 vision at a distance of 8 to 10 inches in the face-up position in natural daylight. "

GOG
"Half an arm’s length in distance or roughly 15” using diffuse/ambient/office lighting and direct/spot lighting and 20/20 vision."

Wink Jones
"No inclusions visible face-up at a distance of 8-10 inches in natural lighting to a person with 20/20 vision"

I don't really need to go on. But here is an article, https://www.pricescope.com/journal/what_eye_clean_diamond..........

...and this is why we recommend that consumers specify what their own definition of eye clean is to the vendor. My definition is not the same as those you quoted above. I inform the vendor what I am looking for and they try to find it. If they can't, then I may need to choose a higher level of clarity. It hasn't happened yet.

 

[Circe]

So, would it be safe to say that an eye clean SI would have inclusions that are on the sides of the diamond or on the bottom?

Here is a very newbie question - on a GIA plot, if there were inclusions on the bottom or the sides of the pavilion, where would they show up? I don't know how to read the plot, really.

Also, I definitely don't need to be so picky as to require a flawless diamond. I had a VS1 diamond before and literally couldn't see a thing on it (although I only examined it intently once or twice, because that was enough to satisfy me that I couldn't see anything).

Short answer: it depends. Generally, an inclusion that is visible from the top will be plotted on the top, and ONLY if it is only visible from the bottom will it be plotted on the bottom. If an inclusion is visible from both, it will only be plotted on top so as to not "ding" the stone unfairly. But ... SI stones are judged partially on eye-cleanliness, graders are only human, some people have sharper eyes than others, etc., etc., etc. You'll want to either examine each stone for yourself, have a qualified appraiser whom you trust do it, or buy from a place like GOG, where they post incredibly detailed macro photos that make each and every inclusion blindingly clear.

 

[Gypsy]

So, would it be safe to say that an eye clean SI would have inclusions that are on the sides of the diamond or on the bottom?

Here is a very newbie question - on a GIA plot, if there were inclusions on the bottom or the sides of the pavilion, where would they show up? I don't know how to read the plot, really.

Also, I definitely don't need to be so picky as to require a flawless diamond. I had a VS1 diamond before and literally couldn't see a thing on it (although I only examined it intently once or twice, because that was enough to satisfy me that I couldn't see anything).

Short answer: it depends. Generally, an inclusion that is visible from the top will be plotted on the top, and ONLY if it is only visible from the bottom will it be plotted on the bottom. If an inclusion is visible from both, it will only be plotted on top so as to not "ding" the stone unfairly. But ... SI stones are judged partially on eye-cleanliness, graders are only human, some people have sharper eyes than others, etc., etc., etc. You'll want to either examine each stone for yourself, have a qualified appraiser whom you trust do it, or buy from a place like GOG, where they post incredibly detailed macro photos that make each and every inclusion blindingly clear.

Clarity is determined table up, looking down at the diamond. It's not determined from a 360 view of the diamond. It is possible to have a VS1 with an inclusion visible from the side, but completely clean face up. Technically speaking. Many "eyeclean" diamonds that are SI will show inclusions when viewed from the profile or the bottom.

 

[AmeliaG]

If I were you, I'd wait till the appropriate time and just ask him to get you a VS1. That's the lowest grade that I felt comfortable to be pretty much guaranteed eyeclean. I haven't seen any non eyeclean VS1s and I haven't heard of any - at least in round brilliants. I don't have good eyesight but I have seen some VS2s with visible inclusions. Clarity seems to be the defining factor for you; in that case, it may be worth paying more for it.

To keep the same budget, you may need to drop in other C's. It depends on what your preferences are: if you are not committed to the 2ct size, its easier to ascertain which smaller size you prefer. Color preferences are a bit more subtle to define.