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Andesine/Red Laboradite - Does it matter

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Hi stonejunkie, This is the name I should have used for myself. Welcome to PS.
When there is a new find of colored stones the best, for the most part go first. This is so they can generate some demand for what they are selling. After the demand is there they can unload the junk.
Congrats on your purchases. Doug
 
Date: 6/26/2006 9:23:59 AM
Author: stonejunkie
this is my first time in this forum and I have been hearing alot about jtv. I was a jtv junkie for a while but now it seems that they are being kind of shifty these days. even with their tanzanite. if you ever watch keep an eye on their lighting when they show the tanzanite. it seems that they are using a florescent light or some kind of black light to make the medium/light colored tanzanite look darker.

also, about the andesine/labradorite, I purchased quite a few beautiful reds back in Jan. I have not purchased any of the ones that they are showing now. it seems that they are from another location. their is alot of browns and orange in the stones. when i purchased mine, all of them were a pure red and very vibrant., now they are not the quality that they had before. i think that they are trying to feed the masses and they just are setteling for what they can get. i would not invest my time or money in the ones that they are trying to hawk these days. they are just trying to make a buck. if you notice, when they get the real beautiful reds they are priced alot more per ct. than the orange/brown ones. i think that the supply of the tibetan stones are drying up and they are getting anything they can get their hands on because they know that the jtv viewers believe anything they say without doing research on what they are buying.

just a work of warning: the tanzanites and the andesine/labradorite are of lesser quality now watch out for what you are buying. and the zingers as they say are a joke...

take them for face value! they are sales people and they will say anything to get the job done.
Click to expand...
Awhile back I saw JTV had some poorly cut Tanzanite from a buy they made. You could see that they were lopie-jawed, just horrible. I could not believe that someone would keep one like that. I ordered one off of the webbsite and it was lopie-jawed, the color was great but the cut was really bad.I sent it back with a note attached saying that I could not beleive they would sell something cut that bad, not that it did any good...lol Now it seems that the Tanzanite has a grayish tint to it. Glad I have gotten mine earlier. I did get a 12.53ct. cushion cut Tanzanite from them 4 or 5 years ago and am VERY pleased with it.

They tell you the mines are not producing the quality stones they used to, so it stands to reason that none of the stones they are selling now are what they used to be. As for the zingers....yepper watch out.
 
stonejunkie,
Thanks, you confirmed what I suspected for a while, but I thought I was crazy. I ordered several tanzanites and while they looked dark, they came to me medium tone. I like that color but it was not what I was looking for. Wanted the darker color.
Last night Cherly said the cherry red was now hard to find. I think the colors they have are now orange, honey orangy and red orange. I have an orange, smallish 1.56 ctw that looks wonderful but jewelers do not know what andesine is. (2 )that I asked.
I have 3 red ones that I''m just keeping .
I send back 60% of what I order from JTV. A lot of it is junk and just today a friend of mine had a stone set with a setting from JTV that the jeweler call a piece of junk and refused to set the stone. I have the same setting(GETTING IN THERE BEFORE THE GOLD PRICE INCREASES), so we both are returning the settings. They were expensive enough. It seems a bit of hit and miss. I bought emeralds from them that my G.G. said with horror, "These are commercial stones". I liked them fine. They are zambian, lighter in color, completly untreated, no oil, no heat and I am so thrilled with the neckace I had made with them, I know my neices will have have something to remember me by. You see I never could have bought 5 , 2ctw gem quality emeralds. These are grass green. I just checked my grass. I never saw new green grass the darker color of gem quality emeralds. My necklace appraised out at $7,000. Good enough for me.
I am losing some confidence in them though. I hate most of the female hosts, the men are fine, but they all are so odd,screaming, flipping their hair, exaggerating, carnival like,. I was thinking lately, that truthfully they declasse gems and jewelry. I don''t get that from HSN or QVC, even though their stuff isn''t great. I feel they are like fish mongers in the street hocking their wares. Well thanks, Annette
 
The shopping channel DSN (Direct Shopping Network) sells super cherry red Red Andesine I own quite a few stones and they are great. Great prices too.


Linda
 
Hi,
It has been a while since I last posted...

Well, I finally had time to take my 16 carat stone to jeweler, as I had planned to use it within a cuff bracelet... (notice the use of past tense)

I was looking at the stone, had it on my wrist, about an inch or so above the glass counter... Yes, it fell and CHIPPED. I was shocked, but luckily not devastated- From what I was told after their stone cutter looked at it, that there was an internal inclusion that cleaved. It was something that was bound to happen, as the stone is so soft. I guess it is better that it happened before it was set, versus within a fairly expensive bracelet mount.

I am now hoping to have the ring "creatively" bezel set to hide the chip in the corner and use it as a pendant, which is less likely to get abused versus the bracelet.

Custom 14k colored gold work for bezel, bezel (yellow) setting of a couple of lose diamonds (white bezel on rose mount) and a custom vail (white) was quoted about $800 or so... Stone will be back set for stability.

At this point, I am waiting for sketches, as well as just trying to justify expense- Jeweler will work on some sketches ready for me next week. I may forget about diamonds/custom vail and ask for price for the custom bezel work in yellow and stock vail in white gold.

Eric
 
Date: 7/14/2006 8:31:31 PM
Author: cdgaflash
Hi,
It has been a while since I last posted...

Well, I finally had time to take my 16 carat stone to jeweler, as I had planned to use it within a cuff bracelet... (notice the use of past tense)

I was looking at the stone, had it on my wrist, about an inch or so above the glass counter... Yes, it fell and CHIPPED. I was shocked, but luckily not devastated- From what I was told after their stone cutter looked at it, that there was an internal inclusion that cleaved. It was something that was bound to happen, as the stone is so soft. I guess it is better that it happened before it was set, versus within a fairly expensive bracelet mount.

I am now hoping to have the ring ''creatively'' bezel set to hide the chip in the corner and use it as a pendant, which is less likely to get abused versus the bracelet.

Custom 14k colored gold work for bezel, bezel (yellow) setting of a couple of lose diamonds (white bezel on rose mount) and a custom vail (white) was quoted about $800 or so... Stone will be back set for stability.

At this point, I am waiting for sketches, as well as just trying to justify expense- Jeweler will work on some sketches ready for me next week. I may forget about diamonds/custom vail and ask for price for the custom bezel work in yellow and stock vail in white gold.

Eric
Click to expand...
Hello Eric,

Maybe you could find a mounting here that you like.....Your jewelery could get it for you. He may already have these catalogs.I am sure it would cost less this way. Good luck.
Stuller.com Online Catalog

Adwar Casting Co. | Products
 
Hi Connie,

Thanks for the info. I did find 3 pendant settings from the Stuller catalog. All 3 have fairly good size bezels... 81666, 81706, 81778.

I know that my jeweler has this catalog, as I ordered a mounting for a 12mm round Russian lab alex from there- (That ring should be ready next week or so. It will be fabulous!)

Much will depend upon whether or not any of the settings are available in a large enough size to accomodate my stone ,22.8x16.1; actually now a little less than that-
7.gif


Man, I was SO surprised that the stone was SO fragile. As I said, better to happen now, before any money was spent to set it...

Eric
 
Date: 7/15/2006 5:46:05 PM
Author: cdgaflash
Hi Connie,

Thanks for the info. I did find 3 pendant settings from the Stuller catalog. All 3 have fairly good size bezels... 81666, 81706, 81778.

I know that my jeweler has this catalog, as I ordered a mounting for a 12mm round Russian lab alex from there- (That ring should be ready next week or so. It will be fabulous!)

Much will depend upon whether or not any of the settings are available in a large enough size to accomodate my stone ,22.8x16.1; actually now a little less than that-
7.gif


Man, I was SO surprised that the stone was SO fragile. As I said, better to happen now, before any money was spent to set it...

Eric
Click to expand...
Wooo....Eric that is a big stone. Good luck. I have a heart shape 10X10mm Labradorite I want to have set into a pendant when I find one I like and one that it will fit. Of course, I want diamonds around it. I saw one at Adwar but I do not think it comes in that size, wouldn''t you know. I also have some smaller ones for earrings. After reading about stones being chipped and it happening to me, kinda worry about it. I can''t replace the large heart.
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Connie
 
Hi,

It has been a while. My 16 carat andesine/labradorite is now 11.7 carats. The re-cutting turned out very nicely.

I have recently had it set in 14K yellow gold as a pendent. (I picked it up this past Thursday) The large stone is set vertically. On top of it (flush), is a 2.4 carat red andesine/labradorite set horizontally. The vail is plain, as I didn''t want the piece to look too much like a pineapple. (lol) It is placed on a black leather cord with 14K yellow gold lobster claw clasp.

I hope to post a picture of it soon. Its quite nice....

I am waiting for the appraisal. My jeweler has found prices of $100-$125 per carat for stones up to 5 carats. He said he would have to do some more research relative to appraising the large stone.

Eric
 
Hi Eric. I have had a similar experince to yours in so far as some jewelers down playing the the value of stones I have brought in to them. This seems to be a sales technique they uise. As if the only place to get decent quality is through them. I mostly refuse to do business with such places as I prize honesty above sales hype.
On another note. Sorry to hear of the damage inflicted on your andesine. Glad the damage was repaired. That must have been a rather large "chip" to have caused the loss of almost 5 cts.
Would love to see pics when you can post them.
Best Regards Doug
 
Hi,
I don''t know Andesine from Labradorite. :) I did, however, buy a pendant with what was supposed to be a green Andesine/Labradorite center stone, 1+ ctw, with .75 ctw of green and white diamonds around it. I love the setting, but the center stone is kind of odd.

The "green" stone is only green under fluorescent light. Under incandescent light it is a muddy reddish-brown. Is this considered a color change stone? And, if so, is it worth keeping for the color change effect? Under fluorescent the color is a pretty very deep teal, matching the same teal green as the diamonds all around, but I''m not crazy about the color under regular lighting...the muddy brown-red with only hints of green.


As gem collectors, can I get an opinion from you on color-change value and rarity in Andesine/Labradorite?? This is a JTV purchase. I called to see if I could exchange for a brighter true green center stone, but the item is out of stock. The customer service person said that A/L does NOT have color-change, yet the hosts claim that it can have color change and also color-shift. I realize that color-shift is different, with the color seen being related to the angle of viewing. The color in this stone is related to the light source.

Thanks
Ger

PS: I''ve tried watching DSN for a few minutes (on internet since I don''t get the channel on TV). All I saw was very expensive jewelry with an occasional stone in between!? The site stone link only had a handful of items. Am I missing something???

As a JTV junky who has been getting burned lately, I expanded my searches and bought a small Tsavorite from a Thai dealer on ebay with a good FB. It was a nice clean stone, but had a window...too cheap to send back. I am rather disapointed. I ordered another stone from another Thai dealer with good FB, a bright larger fire opal, much more expensive. If that one turns out to be a bummer too, that will be the end of my ebay buying! THANKS!
 
Hi Ger100,
I have become disillusioned with JTV. I do not believe anything the show hosts say. I bought a green andesine/lab when they first came out. The color was awful and I sent it back. I bought several red, but when I looked at Gem France web site the red andesine looks much better than at JTV. Have you noticed the price reductions lately and the the hosts are now saying they should apprise out to 5 to 10 times what you paid, not the the 10x 40 times price paid?
I do not recommend any purchase(except the cheapest) of rubies from them. I sent 3 stones out to Sarasota Gem Labratory where Richard Sherman found that all three stones were not as they claimed. I have been called a cheat, they put my account on hold and slowly they are taking the stones back as I needed to threaten to file with the FTC, which I did.
They are growing too fast and no one knows what they are doing. Its a mess. I wrote to the Pres and his office can''teven straighten this out. I''m on hold now. I knew my luck with their gem stones would probably run out. It has now. I have some very nice things but I believe they have gone down hill.
Be cautious with your purchases. If its a muddy brown red I think its value decreases. Brown isn''t what you want.
Thanks,
Annette
 
Hi Annette,

I know what you mean about JTV. I got some nice jewelry (a wonderful 2 ctw melon Spessartite ring, just the tiniest bit of fine fibers with a loop) from about 8 mos ago, but shortly after that I was sending 90% of the jewelry back. So I gave up with jewelry and started with the stones which were OK for awhile, but again, are getting very variable. I do think that you are correct in your assessment: they have grown too fast and no one knows what''s going on there! I''d estimate that about 80-90% of their stuff is not as represented either on TV or online!!!!

I think I''ll show the pendant to some of my regular (non-gemmy) buddies. If I get wrinkled noses, I''ll know what to do with it. If everyone else, including my Mom (best judge of "pretty"), thinks it''s odd and NOT pretty, back it goes. BTW, I agree that the clear red is much much more desirable than the green, even if the green is supposed to be rarer. The red and even the orangy pink with green flashes are spectacular. I got some of these in parcels, BEFORE they started the latest big hype.

Recently, I bought 2 gems from Thai dealers via ebay. One was a small Tsavorite, clean, 1/2 ctw, $18, a bit of a window. I don''t have one piece of this stone, so it fits the bill as a "sample."

The other one, attached, is a 2 ctw orangish red faceted Fire Opal, supposed to be Mexican, said to be IF. I don''t see any inclusions under 10x, and I checked SG and RI to make sure that it was real. I think I overpaid, since the shipping turned out to be $25! Total was $150. One advantage JTV has over ebay, Thai, etc: it only costs USPS priority flat mail ($4.05) to send their stuff back. Not feasible to send something back to Thailand.

I have also had mixed results with various vendors of gem equipment. Fortunately I''ve been able to get refunds on everything except shipping on most, like refractometer, etc. I finally have a few working pieces which can give me a good fix on most of the stones. The JTV parcels were good for "learning" to ID various stones...although, as I said, other than a lot of Labradorite, one really nice pink sapphire, one superb ruby, and a few others, the stones are getting iffy lately too. It''s too bad, because I was starting to have fun with the mixed parcels.
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I tried to search for Gem France, but can''t find it. Can you give me a link?

Thanks!
Ger

fire opal.jpg
 
Hi and thanks. But there is no red Labradorite listed on that site in gemstones, except for a pile of cabs!? Does their inventory move that fast?

Also, does anyone have an opinion about the color-change, color-shift thing in Andesine/Labradorite?

My Labradorite is dark green in daylight and under fluorescent light. It is muddy reddish (mahagony) only under incandescent light. This means a color change, doesn''t it? Aren''t color change stones rather uncommon? How often is this color change seen in Labradorite? Sorry to be a pest, but there is very little in my books about Labradorite. What I''ve been able to find is mostly related to the Oregon Sunstone, which apparently is related chemically, but is different in appearance in many instances.

Oh, and the pendant was sold as green Labradorite, NOT a color change stone! So, despite OUR mutual distrust of JTV, this is not their "call." I was thinking that I lucked out getting a color-change stone!? Other than some input on that point, my main reservation was that the color is so dark...I''m not sure of the proper term. I know it''s not hue, but I think it''s tone? Very dark toned, both when green and red.

Thanks
Ger
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PS: Am I in the correct forum? Or is there another place for newbies with questions about colored stones?? I am not a dealer. I am not going to sell anything. I am simply trying to learn about gemstones. And yes, JTV got me started. Is that a black mark against me?
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Date: 11/2/2006 2:59:35 AM
Author: ger100
Hi and thanks. But there is no red Labradorite listed on that site in gemstones, except for a pile of cabs!? Does their inventory move that fast?
Click to expand...

I just found Gemfrance''s red plagioclase under "andesine" at this link: http://www.gemfrance.com/rubrique.php?id_rubrique=53&typeId=1&nomId=5&isGallery=1&dossierId=1

I make no endorsement of any kind: I''m just pointing you to the site. FYI, I''ve been actively investigating the "back story" on this material and may have some real answers about it at a point in the future.

Richard M.
 
Dear Ger 100,
No one will hold it against you that you got your start with JTV. So did I and I''m sure there are others that also have. I learned alot from them, but as you learn you become more discerning. I have some nice things but have learned they don''t tell you everything. I am interested in the Andsine/Lab because when I purchased a year ago they were touting it as Andesine/Lab but now are calling it Labradorite and even have a disclaimer of sorts on their description page.. The reduced prices make me wonder.
I also am interested in the spessertite. Now they tell us the Nigerian mines are closed and played out. That''s a country that has political turmoil and I wonder if the mines are closed due to fighting not played out. Part of the fun for me is watching to see if the gemstones go up in price.
Food for thought: JTV claims they have 80% of the Andesine/Labradorite in their firm. How can appraisals be as high as they say if they are the major sellers and they only charge 100.00 per carat. Doesn''t that make their price the fair market value since they have most of the material.
This is fun and I hope Richard that you have imformation soon and will let us know.
Thanks,
Annette
 
I also would love to know what the real story is on this Andesine/Labradorite.

JTV is now calling it simply Labradorite. I think they have a big stash of the Labradorite, Tanzanite AND Spessartite. All of these 3 are all over their site in large numbers. However, what is interesting, is that the green Labradorite IS almost gone...at least for now there isn''t much on the site. Hmmmm.

JTV is sooo big that they indeed can "make," or at least greatly influence, the market for something that they have such large amounts of!

Lately they''ve been pushing Rubies, Emeralds and Paraiba tourmaline (Mozambique copper colored). Their prices sky rocket from week to week on the latter. Just amazing. I just bought a copper tourmaline from another seller in Thailand (yep, just call me dumb dumb). It is a bit lighter than that real bright neon, but a pretty color, and somewhat included. But it was affordable, and the other pieces he was selling with fewer problems were going quite a bit higher. I will post it here when/if I get it. :) The Thai prices are in the hundreds while JTV has popped up into the thousands in a matter of weeks. Meanwhile, I had gotten myself a small paraiba colored Apatite for a few dollars at least a month ago. It''s a pretty darn nice color, and this color apatite had also been flying up in price because of its resemblance to Paraiba (I think).

Like you, I wonder how this will all shake out. Probably like the tulip craze of the 17th century (think that''s the right era). Tulips rose so high in price that only the very rich could buy them. They were an "investment." But you knew something was going to pop when the little guys started to ransom their kids and homes to buy tulips. Sure enough, bingo, the bubble burst and everyone was broke.
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Geze, I just turned on the TV and Mandy is sitting in front of a Christmas Tree!! She''s pushing a mixed parcel, supposedly containing Spessartite, Ruby, Alexandrite, Spinel, Morganite, Tanzanite, Tsavorite...yeh, right. I have NEVER gotten Tanzanite, Morganite, Tsavorite. I dont''t know how she can call a small dark golden stone Spessartite. I could have sworn I had a few of these in the last parcel, looking like Spessartite by color and brilliance. But when I tested them they turned out to be Citrine...daaaang.

You''re right about getting discriminating over time. I absolutely hate what they''re doing to the Topaz, "Magic Mystic" or whatever other "thing" they''ve created. They all look like carnival glass...ugh.
Ger
 
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