Another shooting in the US…….

[icy_jade]

I have a theory about this. I'm only half-serious, but I'm kinda serious. You have to remember that the US is a country of immigrants, much more so than any other. Back in the day, you had to be a bit nuts to come here. By that I mean, it's really not normal behavior - for most people - to leave your entire world and all your loved ones behind with little money in your pocket for an uncertain future, knowing that you would likely never be able to return because it had cost you everything you had just to make the journey once. Up until about 15 years ago, you could still find the old-school immigrants around, and they had never traveled back to their homes. They literally hadn't been "home" in 40-60 years, and it wasn't uncommon for the immigrants of yesteryear to do immigration that way - usually from necessity. They knew that there was no going back when they left, mostly, and that they faced an uncertain future when they reached America from Ireland or Italy, or wherever people came from back then. Just think of the grit and guts and sheer nerve that you'd have to have possessed to immigrate 100 years ago or more. It would have helped if you'd been a little wacko! It's a wacko decision, when you think about it rationally. A sensible person would have stayed put, in their village, with all their family around them! And then all the wacko immigrants of 200 years ago kept having little wacko babies, and here we are!

Joke. Just trying to inject some levity into this sad discussion. And I do think there's something to it. All of us who are not Native American are here thanks to some crazy ancestor who looked across the sea and thought, "I know! I'll try my luck!" I know for a fact that my dad's side are criminally insane, so perhaps I'm biased.

Singapore is a nation of migrants. So is Taiwan or Hong Kong… Australia and New Zealand… again, many examples of nations built by migrants so not a unique situation by any means. If anything, convicts used to be sent to Australia right?

I think our forefathers were mainly driven by desperate circumstances. Stay and starve, or take a chance on a dodgy sea voyage and maybe prosper. Not madness, just desperation.

 

[Jambalaya]

Consider that there are hardly any Native Americans left; almost everyone came here from somewhere else in the last 200 years or so, and considering we are approx. 330 million people....that's a lot of immigrants/descendants of immigrants! America is famously a country of immigrants. I don't think anywhere else has had such a lengthy history of immigration on such a massive scale. I'm no historian though, so am willing to be corrected.

I'm sure desperation played a role in the decisions of immigrants to come here, yes. I don't think you had to be mad to do it, but it probably helped.

 

[Jambalaya]

There is also a lot of deep poverty in some places, I think much more so than in other developed countries. That surely must play a role. The large coastal cities get all the media attention, but the truth is that America is mostly rural, and there's not a lot of work in those places.

 

[Jambalaya]

Why do we see YOUNG men shooting up SCHOOLS? Why not men in their forties shooting up malls, or women in their fifties shooting up casinos?

I guess I'm just searching for answers.

 

[icy_jade]

America is famously a country of immigrants. I don't think anywhere else has had such a lengthy history of immigration on such a massive scale. I'm no historian though, so am willing to be corrected.

If you are talking about numbers, sure. But there are MANY countries populated by migration. Not a unique US thing.

Anyway if the US folks in our generation and the generation before us lack the political will or motivation to drive changes, I will pin my hope on the kids who grew up after Columbine. Having experienced what they did, who would want to inflict that same pain/fear on their own kids right? Or am I being too idealistic?

I know, not my country so I should butt out. Just want to mention that in no way is US unique in having young people, mental illness, migrants, social media, peer pressure, bullying, etc etc. To an outsider, it just sounds like excuses again. It is the easy access to guns for mass killings. In Singapore a disturbed teenager had used an axe to kill another student in his school a while back. If he had access to an automatic weapon, I would imagine it won’t just be the one poor kid who was killed.

 

[Jambalaya]

To an outsider, it just sounds like excuses again.

Yup, it's absolutely excuses. There is NO excuse for the lack of gun control and the availability of assault weapons/semi-automatics. But the NRA is all-powerful and no one seems to have the guts to stand up to them.

 

[Karl_K]

Why do we see YOUNG men shooting up SCHOOLS? Why not men in their forties shooting up malls, or women in their fifties shooting up casinos?

I guess I'm just searching for answers.

Part of it might be for many young people school is hell on earth.
Read this and maybe you will understand a little.

Voices From The Hellmouth - Slashdot

In the days after the Littleton, Colorado massacre, the country went on a panicked hunt the oddballs in High School, a profoundly ignorant and unthinking response to a tragedy that left geeks, nerds, non-conformists and the alienated in an even worse situation than before. Stories all over the...

news.slashdot.org

If anything today's kids have it even worse.

There are many other threads on it if you search for hellmouth there.

 

[missy]

Nope.
That is the piss poor excuse and lie they're trying to push. They're being called on it nationally.
They've lied about many things that happened that day.
That is not the procedure in place, and they know it. It's why they've been scrambling and changing their story over and over.
Just following orders isn't a viable legal or moral defense.
Cowardice. It was cowardice.
They were afraid of being shot and sacrificed 19 fourth graders.
They admit this as if it is somehow exculpatory in the death of all those children and the teachers who died.
A bureaucrat didn't let those kids bleed out. The police on scene did.

An off duty officer called by his wife was the one who went in to save his own daughter-and helped evacuate other students- just like the unarmed mommy did for her kids after these same police cuffed her, and then released her.

They chose not to, these 'good men' with guns. The fully militarized police with ten times the semi automatic firepower, these police with full Kevlar armor...
They were in direct violation state and federal guidelines put in place for two decades.

‘Confront the attacker’: Texas police appear to have violated shooting response policy

Local law enforcement under scrutiny over delay in entering Uvalde classroom

www.theguardian.com

Officers waited for backup during Texas school shooting because ‘they could’ve been shot’: lieutenant

Officers outside the Uvalde school waited for backup to engage Salvador Ramos because they feared “they could’ve been shot,” a state official said.

nypost.com

I think these police officers should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
They are supposed to be protecting the vulnerable.
Who is the most vulnerable in our society? The children.

SHAME on these police officers. SHAME on them.
They should be prosecuted and fired if found guilty.

Of course, they are innocent until proven guilty, but if they are found guilty then they should be fired. And have to serve whatever sentence they are found to deserve by a jury of their peers.
I just hope the jury includes parents of small children.


As an example, I think we could all agree the soldiers following Hitler's orders were not innocent.
Sometimes following orders of one's superiors doesn't absolve one of one's responsibility and moral obligations.
IMO.

 

[Lookinagain]

Police Have No Duty to Protect You, Federal Court Affirms Yet Again | Mises Institute

The "social contract" is a one-way street. You pay your taxes or go to jail. In return, the government may or may not provide some of those services you

mises.org

These decisions are part of the problem. I think we all assume that LE has a duty to protect but apparently not.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

These angry young guys are just copycatting those that came before. Killing children inflicts the most painful damage and is like some individual who, during an argument hits your most vulnerable self. It's the kill shot against the society. We can expect more of the same.

Statistics, while informing, aren't going to get you anywhere as the reason for arming has been implicitly and explicitly promoted for many years. Black crime, illegal immigration. gay rights et al, and the biggie, Replacement theory. received a new name instead of white supremacy, which is becoming mainstream. And what can be wrong with this theory as for at least 30-40 yrs we have been publishing the statistics on what the increases in both the black population and Hispanic population will increase over the years and the effects of such on US institutions. Population increases are large. So, is it so wrong that the white population feels threatened? The media keeps repeating these population trends.

Again, its not a matter of what you think is "right" It is a matter of what Is. I think the battle is lost. The left has pushed too far left. (I believe that)

I am also a proponent of the Police. I grew up liking and respecting the police. In this instance with 19 officers outside, you could just rush the gunman. Where were their vests, and visors etc.?

I am a disillusioned American.

Annette

 

[swingtime]

Hi,

These angry young guys are just copycatting those that came before. Killing children inflicts the most painful damage and is like some individual who, during an argument hits your most vulnerable self. It's the kill shot against the society. We can expect more of the same.

Statistics, while informing, aren't going to get you anywhere as the reason for arming has been implicitly and explicitly promoted for many years. Black crime, illegal immigration. gay rights et al, and the biggie, Replacement theory. received a new name instead of white supremacy, which is becoming mainstream. And what can be wrong with this theory as for at least 30-40 yrs we have been publishing the statistics on what the increases in both the black population and Hispanic population will increase over the years and the effects of such on US institutions. Population increases are large. So, is it so wrong that the white population feels threatened? The media keeps repeating these population trends.

Again, its not a matter of what you think is "right" It is a matter of what Is. I think the battle is lost. The left has pushed too far left. (I believe that)

I am also a proponent of the Police. I grew up liking and respecting the police. In this instance with 19 officers outside, you could just rush the gunman. Where were their vests, and visors etc.?

I am a disillusioned American.

Annette

The organizations and politicians who are working on this issue continue to push for commonsense measures, so I'm not sure what you're referring to when you say that the left has pushed too far.

It's hard not to feel disillusioned. But without hope nothing will change. The gun manufacturers and those who do their bidding tent their fingers and mutter, "Excellent," Mr. Burns style, when Americans throw up their hands and say that nothing can be done. They hope that, as always, the media will soon move on to the next story, and we'll stop thinking about parents having to give DNA samples to identify their little ones. This is what has happened with past massacres.

 

[yssie]

Part of it might be for many young people school is hell on earth.
Read this and maybe you will understand a little.

Voices From The Hellmouth - Slashdot

In the days after the Littleton, Colorado massacre, the country went on a panicked hunt the oddballs in High School, a profoundly ignorant and unthinking response to a tragedy that left geeks, nerds, non-conformists and the alienated in an even worse situation than before. Stories all over the...

news.slashdot.org

If anything today's kids have it even worse.

There are many other threads on it if you search for hellmouth there.

This is really sad It’s also interesting. When I school in India, for six months at nine years old - it remains one of my life’s most miserable experiences.

I no friends because I primarily spoke English, and worse, with a Kiwi accent. I was mocked by both classmates and teachers because my hair wasn’t long enough to braid with ribbons. I got into trouble in gym class because I knelt on the floor for roll call rather than sitting cross-legged - this was so egregious that the gym teacher wrote home to say that there must be something wrong with me.

I think the very idea of nonconformity is a uniquely Western philosophy. In South Asia, at least, you don’t not confirm. It’s just not an option. Individuality and freedom of expression are not options. Questioning authority is not an option. Saying “no” to anyone with higher standing than you is not an option. Obedience is rewarded, critical thinking that leads to an answer or action that doesn’t match whatever was pre-prescribed is punished. But… No child is ever stuck sitting by himself at lunch in school, either. There’s no bullying other kids for being different if everyone’s exactly the same. Maybe there’s something - an iota of something - to be said for outsourcing self and identity to the communal whole. I hadn’t considered that before, it’s such a horrid memory for me.

 

[Mreader]

NO
It was a freaken bureaucrat yet again that ordered them not to go in. They finally ignored his orders and went in anyway and ended the killer.

Not entirely. The chief was saying that local LE was getting fired at, and stopped bc “they could have gotten shot”. He actually said that.

 

[kenny]

... Black crime, illegal immigration. gay rights et al, and the biggie, Replacement theory. received a new name instead of white supremacy, which is becoming mainstream. ...

White supremacy is mainstream?
Mainstream?

What stream do swim in?
Nobody I know is a white supremest.

 

[Mreader]

Banning assault weapons would help. Would it stop a shooter? No. But if someone came in with a handgun or rifle, no way could that person kill so many people in such a short time. I’m not trying to sound callous here, but it is hard to hit a target with a handgun and/or rifle even at closer range. Btw this is one reason (of many) why it’s stupid to think arming teachers is a good idea.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,
Yes Kenny, Replacement theory is becoming mainstream because in some fashion(not the conspiracy part) it is becoming acceptable. I read that, and since I only read reputable sources, I repeated it. White Supremacy wrong, Replacement Theory A-OK.

Annette

 

[Calliecake]

Trigger Warning. Upsetting information.

The NYT reported that the gunman was in the school for 78 minutes before he was killed. They have a timeline of what happened every minute. I’ve put most of what was said below for people who cannot access the NYT.


11:33 a.m. The gunman enters the school. He uses the back door that has been propped open by a teacher minutes earlier. He walks down a hallway, banging and kicking at least one locked door before moving towards two connecting classrooms, 111 and 112.
Two teachers, Eva Mireles and Irma, had been screening the movie “LILO and Stitch” for fourth graders in the classroom.
The gunman fired more than 100 rounds.

11:35 a.m. Three Uvalde Police Department officers enter the school through the same door. Two are grazed by shots fired by the gunman.
Four more officers soon enter the building.

11:37 a.m. More gunshots. Another 16 rounds are fired.
Officers continue to arrive on the scene.

11:43 a.m. The school puts on Facebook that the school is on lockdown and then emails the parents.
Facebook post states the school is on lockdown due to gunshots in the area. The students and teachers are in a safe area In the building. They are asked to cooperate and not to come to the school campus. They will be notified when the lockdown status is lifted.


11:54 a.m. Parents and people gathering out the school. Tension is building between parents and police.

11:56 AM. A woman on video was heard saying “ Our kids, that’s what we’re worried about“ one mother cab be heard saying on a live-streamed video. She adds ”Our kids are there, man! My son‘s right there!”.

11:58 a.m. A police officer pushes a man who is making a phone cal, outside the school, yelling at the people gathering to move across the street. “Six year old kids in there, they don’t know how to defend themselves from a shooter!” yells one person.

12:03 p.m. It’s 30 minutes since the gunman entered. As many as
19 officers are in the school hallway. A student calls and whispers that she is in classroom 112. The call lasts 1 minute and 23 seconds.

12:05 p.m. Some students and staff members who had been locked down in the cafeteria on the other side of the school are able to free.

12:06 p.m. Some students in another classroom escape through a window.

12:09 p.m. A helicopter is flying above the school, and people are gathering on the streets nearby.

12:10 p.m. The same student calls 911 again. She says multiple people are dead.

12.11 p.m. A police officer with a megaphone announcing to the crowd outside that “When the children get moved, we’re going to move them to the back of the funeral home”, referring to Hillcrest Memorial Funeral Home across. “That’s where we want y’all waiting at “ he says.

12:13 p.m. The same student calls 911 for a third time

12:15 p.m. Members of the Border Patrol Tactical Unit arrive with shields..

12:16 p.m. The same student call 911 again and says that eight or nine students are still alive.

12:17 p.m. The school posts on Facebook that there is an active shooter at the school and asks people to stay away.

12:19 p.m. A diffferent girl, in room 111, calls 911, She hangs up when another student tells her to.

12:21 p.m. Police hear the gunman fire again. The move down the hallway. Three shots are later heard over the 911 call.

12:30 p.m. The school district posts on Facebook that students who made it out are being taken to an auditorium at the high school on the other side of town.

12:35 p.m. It’s now been one hour since police entered the building.

12:38 p.m. The first student calls 911 again, She is told to stay on the line and to stay quiet. The student tells 911 that the gunman shot the door.

12:40 p.m. The school edits it’s post on Facebook to say that the students are being taken to a civic center downtown instead of the high school to reunite with their guardians.

12:41 p.m. People continue to gather up and down the two roads that lead to school entrances.

12:45 p.m. An officer carrying a shield is seen running toward the building. “I’ve seen like 20 parents, maybe more, crying. He says. “Wanting to know what’s happening to their kids. Because there’s still kids in there. And then, parents see that there’s ambulances taking bed in”

12:46 p.m. The student on the phone with 911 says she can hear police next door.

12:47 p.m. The student again asks 911 to please send the police now.

12:50 p.m. Specialty trained Border Patrol officers unlock and open a classroom door using a master key given to them by a janitor. They enter the classroom and Fire 27 times, killing them the gunman. Shots are heard over the 911 call.

12:51 p.m. The girl in room 112 still on the with 911. Officers can be heard moving children out of the classroom, including her. When the call ends she is outside. The crowd of parents surges forward as kids are carried and escorted out. A man tells “Miah! Miah! Miah! That’s my daughter!” As a police officer runs carrying a girl dressed in pink.


At very minute, the NYT stated the time and how many minutes had passed. It was chilling to read.




The police officers were cowards. I can’t even imagine what those poor children went thru in that classroom for 78 minutes. How many of these children could have been saved if the officers had gone in quickly? All I can think about is that poor young girl continuing to call 911 as she is surrounded by her classmates and teacher who she knows are dead, some unrecognizable.


Texas is dead last of all the states in mental health access. Why is that? It was noted thru out this week that this is a mental health problem.

 

[Jambalaya]

Part of it might be for many young people school is hell on earth.
Read this and maybe you will understand a little.

Voices From The Hellmouth - Slashdot

In the days after the Littleton, Colorado massacre, the country went on a panicked hunt the oddballs in High School, a profoundly ignorant and unthinking response to a tragedy that left geeks, nerds, non-conformists and the alienated in an even worse situation than before. Stories all over the...

news.slashdot.org

If anything today's kids have it even worse.

There are many other threads on it if you search for hellmouth there.

It's TERRIBLE to associate kids who aren't "mainstream" with this kind of violence. I was very sorry to read the stories in the thread you posted, Karl. The girl with the coat is right. Why should anyone tell her what coat to wear? And it makes me so sad that harmless geeks/nerds are coming under this kind of suspicion. That is the HEIGHT of unfairness.

 

[Matata]

Or maybe US has better access to mental health facilities. Most parts of the world aren’t as advanced in mental health awareness. So more facilities = higher diagnosis.

• About one-quarter of U.S. adults report having a mental health diagnosis such as anxiety or depression or experiencing emotional distress. This is one of the highest rates among 11 high-income countries.
• While U.S. adults are among the most willing to seek professional help for emotional distress, they are among the most likely to report access or affordability issues.
• Emotional distress is associated with social and economic needs in all countries. Nearly half of U.S. adults who experience emotional distress report such worries, a higher share than seen in other countries.
• The United States has some of the worst mental health–related outcomes, including the highest suicide rate and second-highest drug-related death rate.
• The U.S. has a relatively low supply of mental health workers, particularly psychologists and psychiatrists. Just one-third of U.S. primary care practices have mental health professionals on their team, compared to more than 90 percent in the Netherlands and Sweden.

Mental Health Conditions and Substance Use: Comparing U.S. Needs and Treatment Capacity with Those in Other High-Income Countries

A Commonwealth Fund analysis comparing U.S. mental health care to 10 other high-income countries finds that Americans are among the most likely to report problems accessing or affording mental health treatment. Other countries do a better job of integrating mental health into primary care...

www.commonwealthfund.org

 

[Obscura]

This is in no way an excuse for the cowardly (even if they were told to wait) LEO's, but in rural towns, they are use to seeing very little action. Especially with such a gun loving state such as Texas, LEO's should be fully trained to deal with violent situations. Being in a small town isn't an exception anymore.

ESPECIALLY when it comes to dealing with a school shooter. We have a major problem with those now in this country. I don't care how small town, they need to be ready. That is their job.

As @icy_jade asked why the U.S. has such a problem, one of the things wrong is the entitlement people here have and a lack of consequence. "It's not MY fault!" "Not MY kid!"

That same preschool boy I mentioned who's mom didn't want to parent had SEVERE behavior problems. Before we were allowed to kick him out, he had to call an "expert" to evaluate if he had special needs. He didn't, we already knew this, but liability and all. (My director has been teaching kids for 20+ years.)

I watched this woman see him rip a toy out of another kid's hands. Shen the kid told him to give it back, that he had it first, she said to the other boy "I know you had it first, and he took it... but it seems he really wants to play with it. Can you let him have it?" I was so mad. WTH. Preschool is where you learn to share, follow directions, and start to work in a group. She was undermining all of that. We had been teaching the kids to respect each other and other people's things, to share, and just be good people that think of others as well as ourselves and she tossed those lessons out the window! And this is the "expert."

Not allowed to take away recess. Force kids to play with everyone, including their bullies. Can't give them time out (yes, my director was told they didn't want her to do it.) But schools aren't doing enough. Well, why do you think that is? Because "MY child isn't the problem." "Well what did the OTHER kid do to make my child do this?" No, you "precious angel" is actually a undisciplined little monster and it IS your fault. And now teachers are expected to fix it and teach. Um no.

It's not just that parents are wrapped up in their careers. They don't parent. Period. They expect everyone else to deal with it, as long as it doesn't inconvenience them. There is no social stigma for bad behavior, "they are just expressing themselves."

This is one of the layers of why we have this problem.

 

[Obscura]

P.S. After she and the boy went to the other side of the playground I went over to the other boy and told him that she shouldn't have asked that, and she was wrong and unfair.

I was proud of him for telling him he had it first, give it back instead of screaming or hitting.

Tried to undue some of the damage said "expert" did.

 

[Obscura]

Trigger Warning. Upsetting information.

The NYT reported that the gunman was in the school for 78 minutes before he was killed. They have a timeline of what happened every minute. I’ve put most of what was said below for people who cannot access the NYT.


11:33 a.m. The gunman enters the school. He uses the back door that has been propped open by a teacher minutes earlier. He walks down a hallway, banging and kicking at least one locked door before moving towards two connecting classrooms, 111 and 112.
Two teachers, Eva Mireles and Irma, had been screening the movie “LILO and Stitch” for fourth graders in the classroom.
The gunman fired more than 100 rounds.

11:35 a.m. Three Uvalde Police Department officers enter the school through the same door. Two are grazed by shots fired by the gunman.
Four more officers soon enter the building.

11:37 a.m. More gunshots. Another 16 rounds are fired.
Officers continue to arrive on the scene.

11:43 a.m. The school puts on Facebook that the school is on lockdown and then emails the parents.
Facebook post states the school is on lockdown due to gunshots in the area. The students and teachers are in a safe area In the building. They are asked to cooperate and not to come to the school campus. They will be notified when the lockdown status is lifted.


11:54 a.m. Parents and people gathering out the school. Tension is building between parents and police.

11:56 AM. A woman on video was heard saying “ Our kids, that’s what we’re worried about“ one mother cab be heard saying on a live-streamed video. She adds ”Our kids are there, man! My son‘s right there!”.

11:58 a.m. A police officer pushes a man who is making a phone cal, outside the school, yelling at the people gathering to move across the street. “Six year old kids in there, they don’t know how to defend themselves from a shooter!” yells one person.

12:03 p.m. It’s 30 minutes since the gunman entered. As many as
19 officers are in the school hallway. A student calls and whispers that she is in classroom 112. The call lasts 1 minute and 23 seconds.

12:05 p.m. Some students and staff members who had been locked down in the cafeteria on the other side of the school are able to free.

12:06 p.m. Some students in another classroom escape through a window.

12:09 p.m. A helicopter is flying above the school, and people are gathering on the streets nearby.

12:10 p.m. The same student calls 911 again. She says multiple people are dead.

12.11 p.m. A police officer with a megaphone announcing to the crowd outside that “When the children get moved, we’re going to move them to the back of the funeral home”, referring to Hillcrest Memorial Funeral Home across. “That’s where we want y’all waiting at “ he says.

12:13 p.m. The same student calls 911 for a third time

12:15 p.m. Members of the Border Patrol Tactical Unit arrive with shields..

12:16 p.m. The same student call 911 again and says that eight or nine students are still alive.

12:17 p.m. The school posts on Facebook that there is an active shooter at the school and asks people to stay away.

12:19 p.m. A diffferent girl, in room 111, calls 911, She hangs up when another student tells her to.

12:21 p.m. Police hear the gunman fire again. The move down the hallway. Three shots are later heard over the 911 call.

12:30 p.m. The school district posts on Facebook that students who made it out are being taken to an auditorium at the high school on the other side of town.

12:35 p.m. It’s now been one hour since police entered the building.

12:38 p.m. The first student calls 911 again, She is told to stay on the line and to stay quiet. The student tells 911 that the gunman shot the door.

12:40 p.m. The school edits it’s post on Facebook to say that the students are being taken to a civic center downtown instead of the high school to reunite with their guardians.

12:41 p.m. People continue to gather up and down the two roads that lead to school entrances.

12:45 p.m. An officer carrying a shield is seen running toward the building. “I’ve seen like 20 parents, maybe more, crying. He says. “Wanting to know what’s happening to their kids. Because there’s still kids in there. And then, parents see that there’s ambulances taking bed in”

12:46 p.m. The student on the phone with 911 says she can hear police next door.

12:47 p.m. The student again asks 911 to please send the police now.

12:50 p.m. Specialty trained Border Patrol officers unlock and open a classroom door using a master key given to them by a janitor. They enter the classroom and Fire 27 times, killing them the gunman. Shots are heard over the 911 call.

12:51 p.m. The girl in room 112 still on the with 911. Officers can be heard moving children out of the classroom, including her. When the call ends she is outside. The crowd of parents surges forward as kids are carried and escorted out. A man tells “Miah! Miah! Miah! That’s my daughter!” As a police officer runs carrying a girl dressed in pink.


At very minute, the NYT stated the time and how many minutes had passed. It was chilling to read.




The police officers were cowards. I can’t even imagine what those poor children went thru in that classroom for 78 minutes. How many of these children could have been saved if the officers had gone in quickly? All I can think about is that poor young girl continuing to call 911 as she is surrounded by her classmates and teacher who she knows are dead, some unrecognizable.


Texas is dead last of all the states in mental health access. Why is that? It was noted thru out this week that this is a mental health problem.

Reading that turned my stomach and had me crying. I don't know how all those LEOs just stood around, not ONE decided to break protocol? Obviously the BPs decided enough with the waiting. Thank goodness for them.

 

[ItsMainelyYou]

Yes, touting Replacement Theory as valid it is wrong- because it's repackaged guilt from their own egregious behavior. That's why CRT is hated- it's just the history made plain. Ask the GRP people to explain and define CRT and it uses/implementation. They can't, but that isn't the point.
It's as old as America.
The reason the Natives are gone is that we killed them with disease(biological warfare) used our boom sticks(another technology we stole), stole their good land because we wanted to expand. We rounded up the rest took their children and left them to rot. It worked.
They helped us survive when we first came to these rocks, this is how we repaid them.
Most Americans, no matter what FOX says- know this and want to rectify our wrongs. It is our first and and greatest shame, what's worse is we did it again with the black people we trafficked to use as slave labor...even later with immigrants, and we've never stopped.
Certain white people are terrified of their children/grandchildren finding out what their people did. Not even feeling bad about it, but finding out at all. The fact is that we white people are the replacement on American soil. We always have been.

Replacement theory is only being considered as mode d'emploi on FOX news, or the pulpits of many varied denominational churches(lots of racism, sexism and slavery in the bible to wrestle with). This is the danger of only having one news source that in an American court of law- isn't legally news of any kind. It's designated infotainment. They can lie, and they do. People who watch believe them. If they who push the lie really believed the lie, why do they so often choose to move the family and raise their children in places in America where liberal ideals are the rule? Maybe because it's better. Tucker's kids are growing up in Maine...the state with more laws and protections in place for LGBTQ+ people than any other- with a female Dem gov. with new additions in subsidized education and full and free access to abortion. He wouldn't raise his kids in red America. He just wants you to. That's what they pay him for.
As history tells us, it isn't new. It's the foundational principle of America. It's the reason for the need of amendments. The only reason to feel threatened would be because you first were so egregiously unjust and evil that you fear righteous retribution. It has nothing to do with 'the left'(also only used by FOX news) pushing too far. Equality is just that. Equal.

Yes, and this also begs the question what is the purpose of a police force? We know the original purpose. We've never truly deviated...they don't serve a useful modern function as they are.

All the rationalizations are noise
It comes back to the simplest explanation that's worked everywhere else they've been applied:
Restrict access of firearms to young adults/children. Register all firearms. Require supervise safety training and storage. Tax it.
'It ain't hahd', as they say in Maine. Canada shored theirs up over the weekend(forgive the meme format, but I sometimes get the impression many of my links aren't read. I wish they would, I take great care in the collating).

 

[ItsMainelyYou]

Reading that turned my stomach and had me crying. I don't know how all those LEOs just stood around, not ONE decided to break protocol? Obviously the BPs decided enough with the waiting. Thank goodness for them.

Same.
It was cowardice, it was.
But, it is also the fact that it is what they are trained to do now. I asked my BIL about it and he confirms that he was in fact trained to find ways to protect himself first in his academy time. Not to this extent, but it's a training directive.
@Lookinagain pointed out some very disturbing legal realities, that I didn't know before now. It opened up some very disturbing questions that we apparently weren't meant to ask. We will now.
It's unconscionable. Their inaction is allowed under the system itself.
Instead we're lied to about it, either by omission or lying about events after they happened.
I don't know what to do with that. What is the purpose of the outsized power and protection we grant them, if not to protect the people first?!

 

[ItsMainelyYou]

Oh, and this. Interesting, that.

 

[Demelza]

I think it is human nature to try to find an answer when something frightening and devastating happens. So we blame "parents today" for not being more involved, for raising "entitled" kids, for being undisciplined. Or we blame the internet. Or video games. It's a knee jerk reaction, but I think it is counterproductive. The vast majority of children with behavioral issues do not go on to commit mass murder. Mass shooters typically have a history of trauma and they are very often suicidal -- but this is not in any way unique to mass murderers. The reality is that it is extremely difficult to predict which suicidal kid with a history of trauma will go on to commit violence as a preamble to his own suicide and that is why we absolutely must limit access to guns!!! And for all the talk Republicans do about mental health, I don't see any of them actually putting up the funds and trying to get bills passed to increase access to mental health resources.

 

[Obscura]

I think it is human nature to try to find an answer when something frightening and devastating happens. So we blame "parents today" for not being more involved, for raising "entitled" kids, for being undisciplined. Or we blame the internet. Or video games. It's a knee jerk reaction, but I think it is counterproductive. The vast majority of children with behavioral issues do not go on to commit mass murder. Mass shooters typically have a history of trauma and they are very often suicidal -- but this is not in any way unique to mass murderers. The reality is that it is extremely difficult to predict which suicidal kid with a history of trauma will go on to commit violence as a preamble to his own suicide and that is why we absolutely must limit access to guns!!! And for all the talk Republicans do about mental health, I don't see any of them actually putting up the funds and trying to get bills passed to increase access to mental health resources.

Actually they are:

2 senators are working across the aisle to address the mental health crisis

Democratic Sen. Chris Murphy and Republican Sen. Bill Cassidy first teamed up six years ago on mental health legislation. Now, we check in on this unlikely duo's work to update it.

www.npr.org

And no, there isn't a way to tell who will snap and commit mass murder, never said there were. I was saying that banning guns will not magically solve the issue. However, we do know a lot of them do show a significant amount of red flags long before the shooting. Why are those going unnoticed and unreported?

And I wasn't blaming "entitlement" and "parents today" in and of itself, I was saying that they are a major contributing factor of why the problem is SO bad here. Why a bigger number of them DO snap to that degree.

As I said several times now, there is a conglomeration of issues that make up the problem we have, and there isn't a magical cure-all fix that will solve the problem all wrapped up in one neat little action.

A mental health reform, a gun control reform, and others will be needed to actually make a lasting change. One stand alone is not going to solve the problem.

 

[Ella]

Folks, another reminder. No party blaming, discussing individual politicians, etc.

 

[Asscherhalo_lover]

I can say this, I'm not sure what has happened "over the years" since I have only been working in public schools for 15 years, but schools in general have so LITTLE power when it comes to any type of real discipline or reporting. The local governments want school to just "deal" with everything without giving us the resources. MANY of the children in one of my school sites should truly be in psychiatric centers. Their parents refuse so we have to "deal". It's a major issue across the board.

 

[Lookinagain]

Oh, and this. Interesting, that.

That’s kind of telling, isn’t it?