Anyone ever buy from IG seller leenagemslk?

[Ionysis]

Do treatments bother you? I appreciate that he's told you that this is heated but my bet would be that it's been treated as well. Ask the question but then as this forum says "trust but verify". If I were a betting person (and I hope I'm wrong) I highly suspect this stone will be more brown when received. As I said, I hope I'm wrong.

Im sorry but what on earth do you base that accusation on?

I have been buying from this seller for over a year and have had his stones (which come WITH certificates every time) additionally certified here and have never had a contradictory lab report.

On what do you substantiate that kind of comment on a vendor you have never dealt with?!

 

[Polyhex]

This is my heated sapphire at a latitude further north than the majority of the US on a sad drizzly day.



VS vendor photo


IMO it would be hard for the photo to be more accurate and the stone is gorgeous and looks just like this in real life.

 

[fredflintstone]

This is my heated sapphire at a latitude further north than the majority of the US on a sad drizzly day.



VS vendor photo


IMO it would be hard for the photo to be more accurate and the stone is gorgeous and looks just like this in real life.

Great color. Most vivid stones often will look just about the same. I mean, how much more golden yellow could it be?

 

[Polyhex]

Do treatments bother you? I appreciate that he's told you that this is heated but my bet would be that it's been treated as well. Ask the question but then as this forum says "trust but verify". If I were a betting person (and I hope I'm wrong) I highly suspect this stone will be more brown when received. As I said, I hope I'm wrong.

I would always be bothered by dishonesty if the stone is not as stated (heated and otherwise untreated.) May I ask why you think it has been treated?

In person it's vibrant and if anything less brown than his photos.

 

[fredflintstone]

I would always be bothered by dishonesty if the stone is not as stated (heated and otherwise untreated.) May I ask why you think it has been treated?

In person it's vibrant and if anything less brown than his photos.

I know you were not asking me, but in the mid 90's to somewhere in the 2000's there were a lot of BE treated stones this color. Beryllium diffusion. Meaning the cooker added an extra element, Beryllium that was not present in the Sapphire turning them very vivid in color. Generally, yellows, oranges, red/orange, but some other colors, though not often. They would heat these stones to the point the crystal lattice would start to melt, therefore allowing the Beryllium to enter the crystal and change the color once the crystal healed & cooled. This does not really go on today as most of the Sapphire that reacted to the treatment the best were from Songea, Tanzania, and they have since been depleted.



There are just heat only Sapphires this color. Always have been. People got real paranoid over BE treatment and still do, but they are just not out there anymore, at least ones that are produced the last several years. Plus, the gemstone industry in Thailand (the origin of BE treatment) got such a backlash that they for the most part stopped doing it as business went south.



There is every chance that your stone is just heated in the traditional way.

 

[Elise_k]

This is my heated sapphire at a latitude further north than the majority of the US on a sad drizzly day.



VS vendor photo


IMO it would be hard for the photo to be more accurate and the stone is gorgeous and looks just like this in real life.

Wow! That colour is....sooo beautifully golden!

 

[Polyhex]

I know you were not asking me, but in the mid 90's to somewhere in the 2000's there were a lot of BE treated stones this color. Beryllium diffusion. Meaning the cooker added an extra element, Beryllium that was not present in the Sapphire turning them very vivid in color. Generally, yellows, oranges, red/orange, but some other colors, though not often. They would heat these stones to the point the crystal lattice would start to melt, therefore allowing the Beryllium to enter the crystal and change the color once the crystal healed & cooled. This does not really go on today as most of the Sapphire that reacted to the treatment the best were from Songea, Tanzania, and they have since been depleted.



There are just heat only Sapphires this color. Always have been. People got real paranoid over BE treatment and still do, but they are just not out there anymore, at least ones that are produced the last several years. Plus, the gemstone industry in Thailand (the origin of BE treatment) got such a backlash that they for the most part stopped doing it as business went south.



There is every chance that your stone is just heated in the traditional way.

Thank you so much for this context and generously sharing your knowledge. I knew about BE treatment but not that the stocks most suitable for it have mostly been depleted and they are unlikely to be in reputable vendor inventory these days.

I have a cool pink/orange BE sapphire that I bought for my mother as a poor college student in the early 2000s, it was in a sterling silver ring that she wore so much the ring literally wore through over 18+ years. Amazingly the sapphire is still perfect and without a scratch!

While I assume it has close to zero value I have been meaning to reset it for her as she loved it so much. This gives me a push to get it done.

 

[LD]

Im sorry but what on earth do you base that accusation on?

I have been buying from this seller for over a year and have had his stones (which come WITH certificates every time) additionally certified here and have never had a contradictory lab report.

On what do you substantiate that kind of comment on a vendor you have never dealt with?!

What is your problem? Every single time I've posted you seem to be there with a snarky comment and it started when I dared to show people the rubbish gemstone I received from one of your OBVIOUSLY favourite sellers! You seem to be singing their praises all the time and going overboard trying to counter any criticism instead of acknowledging that yes, they may have sold a gemstone that is significantly not as shown! Do you have links to them because it certainly makes me think you do. I BOUGHT THIS GEMSTONE from Leenagems so please don't say I haven't dealt with the vendor. I have not accused anybody of anything - I've made a comment to trust but verify. I have no idea what lab has reported on this stone but some are better than others and some are questionnable. If you buy blindly then more fool you. You'll also see others in this thread saying exactly the same thing but apparently I'm the only one you've decided to call out! I think, moving forward it's best if we use the "ignore" feature because I honestly don't want to see your comments any longer and I'm quite sure you feel the same way about mine!

 

[LD]

than

This photo was taken standing next to a window with direct sunlight as can be seen from the shadows on the patio. I appreciate it's through the plastic bag but I'm sure you can see the obvious difference between the seller's photos and mine. I do NOT have an axe to grind with the seller. I have NO reason to lie or deceive anybody. The whole point of this forum is to see the good and bad and I think over the 12 years I've been part of this group, the amount of bad I've posted has been negligable. I did not spend any time taking photos of this gem because it was so far removed from what I thought I might be getting. There is no blue. There is an abundance of grey. Please refer back to the seller's photo.

 

[Ionysis]

I have no “link” to the vendor. But I don’t think it’s very fair to imply any vendor is selling treated stones as untreated without any evidence. It’s bordering on defamation.

You bought a stone which didn’t match the photos. You paid, what, a couple of hundred bucks? Did you send it back? Did you get a refund? Did you even bother to try? You haven’t updated on any of that. I’d be interested in case I ever have to return a stone to this vendor.

When you buy from source it’s risky. You should have asked for additional images / videos. You didn’t. Live and learn.

Some people have good experiences, some bad. Do your homework and ask the right questions and you’re more likely not to be disappointed.

 

[marymm]

I don't think it is reasonable for a vendor to claim to be selling unheated/untreated gemstones without objective third-party evidence to back up such a claim, like a GIA or AGL Gem Lab report.

Leena Gems instagram lists many gemstones with a description as "unheated" or "untreated" yet no lab report mentioned or depicted on the Instagram post. IMO a reputable vendor would include this information in the listing. If there is no laboratory report, then no claim of unheated/untreated should be made.

I also notice several gems, like a 1.19ct asscher-cut White Sapphire listed last week, which is described as "100% eyeclean" but which more likely than not would not be eyeclean to my standards.

YMMV.

 

[Ionysis]

You won’t get a GIA gem report on a sub 3ct sapphire bought from Sri Lanka. You’ll get a report from Emteen or Ceylon Labs. And the vendor will get the certificate for you once you’ve agreed to purchase. That’s how the market there works. It doesn’t make the vendor “not reputable”.

If you don’t want to deal with the local market at source and want GIA reports that’s absolutely fine and understandable - people have different risk tolerances and preferences. But you then pay the relative price premium.

 

[marymm]

^ While it seems that selling tactic is okay in your books, it does make the vendor not reputable in my book.

I do not recognize those two labs you mentioned and it is unclear whether they are recognized internationally as reputable third-party laboratories.

 

[fredflintstone]

This photo was taken standing next to a window with direct sunlight as can be seen from the shadows on the patio. I appreciate it's through the plastic bag but I'm sure you can see the obvious difference between the seller's photos and mine. I do NOT have an axe to grind with the seller. I have NO reason to lie or deceive anybody. The whole point of this forum is to see the good and bad and I think over the 12 years I've been part of this group, the amount of bad I've posted has been negligable. I did not spend any time taking photos of this gem because it was so far removed from what I thought I might be getting. There is no blue. There is an abundance of grey. Please refer back to the seller's photo.

It looks a lot better than the white background photo. I'd bet it would look even better yet out of the plastic & outside in sunlight. Window pictures just don't tell the whole story, especially in plastic. The light is just not right for a good picture. Also if you have other lighting on in the room it will affect the color.


While I'll take your word for it that the stone does not quite look like the vendors picture, that is again because of tropical sunlight. But I'd bet my bottom dollar it has a bluish colorshift. Most of these type of Spinels do. I would imagine this stone to have its charms. Beauty s in the eye of the gem lover.

 

[Ionysis]

^ While it seems that selling tactic is okay in your books, it does make the vendor not reputable in my book.

I do not recognize those two labs you mentioned and it is unclear whether they are recognized internationally as reputable third-party laboratories.

Amazingly there is a big wide world outside of America. People do things differently there. if that makes you uncomfortable as a purchaser pay double the price and stick to what you know. There’s nothing wrong with that.

What is acceptable to YOU is fine and no one is under any obligation to deal with any vendor if their practises are outside of their comfort zone.

But don't slander the business practises of other countries and cultures by applying your standards of what is and isn’t acceptable by suggesting it’s “disreputable” practise. The gem industry is a global business and you need to understand how the industry operates in different places if you are looking for the best value.

But as I said, if a walk on the wilder side isn’t for you, stick to what you’re comfortable with.

 

[fredflintstone]

I don't think it is reasonable for a vendor to claim to be selling unheated/untreated gemstones without objective third-party evidence to back up such a claim, like a GIA or AGL Gem Lab report.

Leena Gems instagram lists many gemstones with a description as "unheated" or "untreated" yet no lab report mentioned or depicted on the Instagram post. IMO a reputable vendor would include this information in the listing. If there is no laboratory report, then no claim of unheated/untreated should be made.

I also notice several gems, like a 1.19ct asscher-cut White Sapphire listed last week, which is described as "100% eyeclean" but which more likely than not would not be eyeclean to my standards.

YMMV.

I can somewhat agree with your statement and there are vendors who maliciously lie about treatment. But the one thing you need to recognize is many of these source dealers from Sri Lanka, Thailand & Vietnam buy direct from the mine or are miners their selves. They have seen probably more stones than all but the biggest labs. After a while when you have seen enough untreated material, you know it when you see it. Especially from the mine in the rough.

Not saying blindly trust any vendor, but sometimes I think some here just do not give credit to a dealer knowing by vast experience what they are doing (exceptions for the fanboys and fangirls of certain vendors here. Though I believe what they say too because of their experience) and many are the times it is a source dealer that this is brought up about from the above-mentioned countries.

Let us be fair, there are many more dealers out there in these source countries that see more gems in a day than 99.9% in the trade in a month or even more. It is just figuring out who to trust.

 

[LD]

It looks a lot better than the white background photo. I'd bet it would look even better yet out of the plastic & outside in sunlight. Window pictures just don't tell the whole story, especially in plastic. The light is just not right for a good picture. Also if you have other lighting on in the room it will affect the color.


While I'll take your word for it that the stone does not quite look like the vendors picture, that is again because of tropical sunlight. But I'd bet my bottom dollar it has a bluish colorshift. Most of these type of Spinels do. I would imagine this stone to have its charms. Beauty s in the eye of the gem lover.

I absolutely promise you 100% there is no blue whatsoever. This stone, never ever ever looks like the seller's video and photos! Trust me I wish it was. I have no axe to grind with this vendor - I won't purchase from him again - but I don't understand why people are trying so hard to make this stone better than it is! You know what, message me your address and I'll stick it in the post!

 

[Polyhex]

I don't think it is reasonable for a vendor to claim to be selling unheated/untreated gemstones without objective third-party evidence to back up such a claim, like a GIA or AGL Gem Lab report.

Leena Gems instagram lists many gemstones with a description as "unheated" or "untreated" yet no lab report mentioned or depicted on the Instagram post. IMO a reputable vendor would include this information in the listing. If there is no laboratory report, then no claim of unheated/untreated should be made.

Do you feel the same way that US sellers are disreputable when they state that melee diamonds are natural and untreated without GIA reports?

These are not expensive stones. The yellow sapphire I purchased was $395, and the least expensive GIA report would be an additional $70.

 

[Polyhex]

I have no axe to grind with this vendor - I won't purchase from him again - but I don't understand why people are trying so hard to make this stone better than it is! You know what, message me your address and I'll stick it in the post!

I completely believe your stone doesn't look like the photo. It's great to get a diversity of views. But you also said you bet my stone would be brown, and treated. I'm wondering why you think that?

I appreciate that he's told you that this is heated but my bet would be that it's been treated as well. Ask the question but then as this forum says "trust but verify". If I were a betting person (and I hope I'm wrong) I highly suspect this stone will be more brown when received.

 

[fredflintstone]

I absolutely promise you 100% there is no blue whatsoever. This stone, never ever ever looks like the seller's video and photos! Trust me I wish it was. I have no axe to grind with this vendor - I won't purchase from him again - but I don't understand why people are trying so hard to make this stone better than it is! You know what, message me your address and I'll stick it in the post!

LOL!

 

[LD]

I completely believe your stone doesn't look like the photo. It's great to get a diversity of views. But you also said you bet my stone would be brown, and treated. I'm wondering why you think that?

I suspect that it's been treated. I really really really hope I'm wrong. Natural sapphires that vivid are rare and as such command high prices (when accompanied by a reputable lab report). If you love the gem it doesn't matter as this vendor sells stones cheaper than a lot of competitors but it has been sold as unheated and untreated I think?

 

[fredflintstone]

Do you feel the same way that US sellers are disreputable when they state that melee diamonds are natural and untreated without GIA reports?

These are not expensive stones. The yellow sapphire I purchased was $395, and the least expensive GIA report would be an additional $70.

How big is the Sapphire?


$395.00 is not out of the question for a heated Yellow Sapphire under 2 carats (possibly even 2 carats & a hair more) of that color from a source dealer. Yellow Sapphire though beautiful, is one of the most inexpensive varieties of the species.


More bang for your buck.

 

[Polyhex]

How big is the Sapphire?


$395.00 is not out of the question for a heated Yellow Sapphire under 2 carats (possibly even 2 carats & a hair more) of that color from a source dealer. Yellow Sapphire though beautiful, is one of the most inexpensive varieties of the species.


More bang for your buck.

1.74ct and 6.80 x 6.50 x 4.10 mm in dimensions. Thank you!

 

[Polyhex]

I suspect that it's been treated. I really really really hope I'm wrong. Natural sapphires that vivid are rare and as such command high prices (when accompanied by a reputable lab report). If you love the gem it doesn't matter as this vendor sells stones cheaper than a lot of competitors but it has been sold as unheated and untreated I think?

Sold as heated and otherwise untreated. Regardless of whether I love it, it would make the vendor a liar for it to be treated, and your statement that the vendor is falsely selling treated stones is beyond being unhappy with your own stone. Do you have an evidence the vendor engages in this unethical and illegal behavior or is it a gut instinct?

 

[fredflintstone]

1.74ct and 6.80 x 6.50 x 4.10 mm in dimensions. Thank you!

Sounds about right.

 

[LD]

Sold as heated and otherwise untreated. Regardless of whether I love it, it would make the vendor a liar for it to be treated, and your statement that the vendor is falsely selling treated stones is beyond being unhappy with your own stone. Do you have an evidence the vendor engages in this unethical and illegal behavior or is it a gut instinct?

Where did I say that? I have never said that. If a stone hasn't got a reputable lab report then you are relying on the vendor and if you don't know them then it's up to you whether you trust his/her word. That goes for ANY vendor. I keep saying this but it's true - if treatments bother you, trust but verify!

 

[Polyhex]

Where did I say that? I have never said that. If a stone hasn't got a reputable lab report then you are relying on the vendor and if you don't know them then it's up to you whether you trust his/her word. That goes for ANY vendor. I keep saying this but it's true - if treatments bother you, trust but verify!

OK, then I apologize but I didn't understand you. If a vendor is selling treated stones as traditional heat-only, I personally would view them as super unethical and be super upset. In the past I have shared when I have seen evidence the vendor may be engaging in less-than-ethical behavior. (Ex: vendor appears to be buying stones from low-cost vendors and immediately adding a huge markup because I am seeing the same stones appear on low cost Afghan/Pakistani IGs and then like a week later on a high-cost IG.) I have been trying to understand if you have seen evidence of what I personally would consider a huge breach of ethics (selling treated stones as traditional heat-only.) It sounds like you haven't, it's a general hunch about low-cost vendors in general.

 

[icy_jade]

@marymm When dealing with Sri Lanka sellers, there is no GIA report but local lab is possible if they have brought to the local lab. The Sri Lanka sellers used to come to Singapore too (before the pandemic) and even when I get stones through my jeweler, they are typically not certed and will only be sent in to my local lab (which I trust) if him or his clients are interested in a stone. Outside of Gubelin, SSEF and GIA which are recognized internationally, I can see even an AGL certified stone being recertified using a local lab due to lack of lab recognition factor in this part of the world (very unlikely scenario since stones are more expensive in the US and I can’t imagine them selling at those prices here). And people won’t send a cheap stone worth a few hundreds to Gubelin or GIA to certify. The cert is so expensive YKWIM (especially for Gubelin)? Also, if my memory is right there are other (well loved by PSers) vendors who do sell what is stated as heated but otherwise untreated stones without cert but based in the US. Do you consider them as not reputable too? I don’t want to name them here but they are not hard to find and I don’t recall anyone saying they are not reputable just cos of that.

======
I hesitated to get into this debate but I think it’s unfair to tar all the sellers from other parts of the world just because they sell cheaper and don’t have the certs that is preferred in some other part of the world (which the seller can’t get from where they are based anyway). I also don’t want anyone who reads this thread to stop thinking about alternative sources for gems then what they can get locally.

Totally agree with what has been noted that practice is different but the price is very very different too. We are not talking pennies, but up to multiple times the value of the stone. So hundreds, if not thousands depending on the stone. So maybe the low price makes you wary but for the rest of us used to buying closer to the source, that’s how it is. Flip the table and imagine how I wince when I see what people pay for the stones sometimes. Even in Singapore, the cost for settings and stones can easily be double even between B&M stores.

Buying closer to the source is not without risks but can potentially result in so much savings. Personally I’m willing to take some calculated risk as I can buy more beautiful baubles. Can understand if you are not willing to take the risk but different stones for different folks right? It’s like... some people maybe will buy pearls only from Mikimoto. Others are happy to get from a US based vendor, and then there are others like me who can go to the Japan or China based pearl vendors and buy closer to the source for maybe half the price.

Re: lighting, I still think that the location makes a difference, even the time of the day when the stone is seen, etc. as stones look different in different lighting/placesI recently moved house and my previous place had white walls, floor, etc. My current place has lots more brown. I actually find that my stones looked much better in my previous house (so yes white interiors again next time lol).

======
@LD I agree that I still don’t see blue but the most recent pic you posted does look much better than the first pic you posted. I hope it wasn’t a pricey purchase for you.

Just to clarify, no links to any sellers.

 

[LD]

OK, then I apologize but I didn't understand you. If a vendor is selling treated stones as traditional heat-only, I personally would view them as super unethical and be super upset. In the past I have shared when I have seen evidence the vendor may be engaging in less-than-ethical behavior. (Ex: vendor appears to be buying stones from low-cost vendors and immediately adding a huge markup because I am seeing the same stones appear on low cost Afghan/Pakistani IGs and then like a week later on a high-cost IG.) I have been trying to understand if you have seen evidence of what I personally would consider a huge breach of ethics (selling treated stones as traditional heat-only.) It sounds like you haven't, it's a general hunch about low-cost vendors in general.

I need to be very clear here. I have not suggested I know anything about this vendor and his practices.

In general terms, if a seller says something is heated or unheated that might be their opinion based on their experience BUT as we all know not all vendors are truthful and not all labs are equal. Of importance also is price. Typically unheated/untreated stones will cost more. If, as a buyer, treatments (or lack of) are important and then it makes perfect sense to verify the purchase with a lab report from a recognised lab. Once the full picture is known then you have a good indication of whether the price paid is fair.

From a gut reaction perspective any seller with beautiful looking gemstones, for sale at a level below you would find elsewhere, with no recognised lab reports gives me red flags. For an inexpensive purchase I might still go ahead (after getting assurances from the vendor I could return if I obtain a contradictory lab report). For an expensive purchase I would ALWAYS verify.

All of the above is just good practice but I hope it clarifies my position and I can’t emphasise that this is general and not directed at any seller in general.

Oh and something you may find interesting .... I’ve been looking at a particular stone and the lab report (where they have a LIBS machine etc) reported that the stone was heated BUT the lab phoned the vendor and said that the measurements for heat were so low that they barely registered but because it had registered they had no option but to declare it heated. Turns out the heating had been done with the traditional blowpipe method. Just thought you might find that interesting.

 

[LD]

@icy_jade my comments on this thread have been taken completely out of context and my comments on low cost sellers applies worldwide. No idea why people think I’ve singled out a location.

I have just made a considered purchase from a Sri Lankan seller who I can’t praise highly enough. I was sent 8 videos with different light sources plus photos plus detailed (and I mean detailed) description of the gemstone. There was NO pressure to buy, in fact the stone was reserved for me without any time limits and the seller told me to take as long as I needed. Not only that, he gave me assurances about the lab (GIC) and links to verify. His return policy is second to none. It took me a few weeks to pull the trigger but I did because of this amazing customer service. When I receive the stone I will give feedback to the forum whether it’s good or bad but for now, with this seller and gemstone I am pretty sure I’m going to get what I’ve been sold.