On the first statement I can agree.Date: 7/9/2005 9:16:03 AM
Author: icekid
But children have always been drawn to me for some reason. They have a life force that is unlike anything you will find in most adults. They are strong, resilient, energetic, and full of everything that is good about life (even the bratty ones with indulgent parents, often!).
I did not PM sjz, but I can certainly see where she is coming from and why she felt attacked. And I have no problem saying so here either
I find the whole notion to be quite strange too. Having children so that they will take care of me in my old age??? Geez, are you breeding for a caretaker?
And I can't understand why you and a couple of other people felt that I was being judgemental or knocking people who feel love and affection for their pets! I was talking about people who go what I consider to be overboard. I think that maybe some of you probably felt like I was talking about you because maybe other people have accused you of going overoard in the past, or maybe you even suspect that about yourselves. I don't know. Whatever. I did not name anyone specifically in any of my posts, nor did I intend to be speaking of any one specific. I was speaking in generalities. Then all of a sudden, you guys were taking offense at everything I said, as If I was speaking specifically about you, and using words to describe my posts such as "inflamatory" or "ugly". To me, those words are just as judgemental and provoking as anything that I said. And YOU WERE specifically talking to me, and about me. I didn't attack anyone's way of treating or caring for their pet, yet someone basically attacked the way that I care for my cat. Did I get all upset and offended? Nope. I, very politely I thought, explained why I felt and acted differently and thanked the person for their concern. I was also more or less accused of making up fictitious "ghost writers" who sent me messages privately. That was pretty inflamatory IMO as well. At least one of those people had the nerve to speak up and say that she did PM in agreement. Thanks Jellybean. Not that I blame the other people for not doing it. The reason they didn't speak up in the first place is because of the kinds of posts I got for stating my opinon. That's too bad, really. People shouldn't feel like they can't speak their minds unless they fall in with the popular consensus. But it appears that a lot of people do. I did, hence what I said in my very first post about not touching this topic with a ten foot pole. I am quite impressed with one person, though. Aljdewey. She obviously doesn't agree with anything I said, but she had the class to NOT take my comments personally, and to post her disagreement with me in a polite, reasonable, and non-confrontational way. She didn't attack me personally, she didn't suggest that I "bow out" of the thread, or accuse me of anything. She simply disagreed and explained why. I can appreciate that. Even if she took only snippets of some of my posts, she didn't take them out of context or try to skew them in a different way than I originally posted them.Date: 7/9/2005 9:49:13 AM
Author: fire&ice
On the first statement I can agree.Date: 7/9/2005 9:16:03 AM
Author: icekid
But children have always been drawn to me for some reason. They have a life force that is unlike anything you will find in most adults. They are strong, resilient, energetic, and full of everything that is good about life (even the bratty ones with indulgent parents, often!).
I did not PM sjz, but I can certainly see where she is coming from and why she felt attacked. And I have no problem saying so here either
On the second, I can not. Attacked? It's the other way around with the use of words like 'nuts' & 'fanatical'.
In your own words, SO WHAT if someone calls their pets 'furbabies'. Honestly, can't someone pick a platform more worthy?
And, in no post did I see anyone put their pet as equal to the life of a child. I simply can not comprehend why ANYONE would knock someone for having affection and love towards a living creature. I simply can not understand someone being judgemental against that love. Goes against my very thought process.
I agree with everything you said in your post. I kind of feel sorry for some of the people who''ve posted their opinions and experiences where kids are concerned. Almost none of that has been my experience. Almost everyone I know that has kids wanted them after they had them, no matter how they felt about kids before they had them. And I don''t know anyone who had their kids so that they would have someone to take care of them when they are old. Sure, I''ve known people who weren''t good parents. I''ve even know a couple of people that regretted having kids. And I''ve known rotten kids. But those people have been in the vast minority of the people I''ve known in my life. Most parents I know are good parents, or at least try their best to be, and love their kids more than anything else. For most people I know the positive FAR outweighs the negative when it comes to their kids. As far as kids go...well, they are kids. You made a good point about kids not totally being blank slates. But a lot of the spoiled, bratty, or unhappy children didn''t get that way all by themselves. A good deal of the way kids turn out is a direct result of the way their parents raised them.
No, I have never been accused of such. As I stated, I am SO grateful for the people that surround me. I have realized that their attention to my pet is a selfless act. It''s a recognition of what is important to me. But then, my parents have always hung a stocking for all of our pets; and, my family & friends have always sent a condolence card (some with gifts to the Vet school) when we lost a dog. They aren''t control freaks that try to dicate how *I should feel*. They realize how I feel as my reality. Love isn''t a bad thing.Date: 7/9/2005 10:20:54 AM
Author: sjz
And I can''t understand why you and a couple of other people felt that I was being judgemental or knocking people who feel love and affection for their pets! I was talking about people who go what I consider to be overboard. I think that maybe some of you probably felt like I was talking about you because maybe other people have accused you of going overoard in the past, or maybe you even suspect that about yourselves. I don''t know. Whatever.Date: 7/9/2005 9:49:13 AM
Author: fire&ice
On the first statement I can agree.Date: 7/9/2005 9:16:03 AM
Author: icekid
But children have always been drawn to me for some reason. They have a life force that is unlike anything you will find in most adults. They are strong, resilient, energetic, and full of everything that is good about life (even the bratty ones with indulgent parents, often!).
I did not PM sjz, but I can certainly see where she is coming from and why she felt attacked. And I have no problem saying so here either
On the second, I can not. Attacked? It''s the other way around with the use of words like ''nuts'' & ''fanatical''.
In your own words, SO WHAT if someone calls their pets ''furbabies''. Honestly, can''t someone pick a platform more worthy?
And, in no post did I see anyone put their pet as equal to the life of a child. I simply can not comprehend why ANYONE would knock someone for having affection and love towards a living creature. I simply can not understand someone being judgemental against that love. Goes against my very thought process.
Yup, when you''re right you''re right. I''m not going to get drawn into another pointless debate by trying to "define" my opinion of overboard, either. That might offend someone, and I certainly don''t want that. I will say, though that I''ve known people have been what I consider to be so overboard with their pets that I felt sorry for the pets! And these people were obviously thinking that their behavior was out of "love" for their pet and that they were doing the right thing. I''ve known people who were that way with their kids, too BTW. What some parents consider to be loving their kids, being kind and generous, or lenient, or giving them the best of everything...other people on the outside would call overindulgence or spoiling.
I don''t choose not to have children because of what I''ve seen with others. I choose not to have children because I don''t want them now.....period. No mystery about it. I''m almost 40, I don''t have the patience for children that I once had in my youth, and I''ve decided that the right choice FOR ME is not to have them.
Interesting, since this post was not directed at anyone, in particular.! At least one poster said they didn''t want children because of what they''ve seen in other parents with their children. I never said anyone shouldhave them who doesn''t want them, but having had children I think I can speak to the fact it is the greatest joy I''VE ever had. How can you know if it''s a joy or not if you''ve never done it? I would guess that most people who dont'' want children thinking it won''t be joyful were raised in homes where they don''t think they were wanted. Your last sentence makes it sound like you''re talking from personal experience. It''s definitely not all consuming for us and never has been. It''s been a great piece of our life. They''re now adults and we treat them as such. Children do grow up. Our marriage actually comes first unless it''s an emergency. Not having kids also can''t be "Undone". For those of us that have kids, we''ve been on the not having kids side before we had them and we speak from the knowledge that it''s a joy to us. Don''t take something personally that wasn''t aimed at any one person. Once again, personal opinion is not an attack on anyone. Just opinions.
I third that one! Was that not what I was saying all all along?? Some people just like to continue on with martyrdom!Date: 7/9/2005 12:45:16 PM
Author: Patty
Amen.
Do you realize what you said? Can you please point out ANY post that said they love their dogs more than they love people and would love a child? Who are you to judge who is selfish? You know what I think is selfish - not recognizing something of importance to another person close to you even if you "judge" it irrelavent. Judging it irrelavent is the most sincere form of selfishness.
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