Anyone here prefer NOT to have a

[Kaleigh]

Thanks F&I, that''s too funny!!!!

 

[Bikergirl]

Date: 7/7/2005 10:18:17 PM
Author: Jennifer5973

Date: 7/7/2005 10:13:49 PM
Author: Dancing Fire
i think for couples that don''t have childrens or grand childrens, will find out later on in life if they regret it or not .your pets won''t be able to drive you to the doctors or run earrends for you.

my guess is that 65% of the memebers here don''t have children at this time. looks like 90% of the memebers have dogs or cats as pets.

P.S. i have nothing against pets or couples that don''t have kids,i known couples regret it when it''s too late.

Yeah and a giant meteor might blow us all us in 6 mos.(so buy more diamonds NOW). Seriously, these are issues to be considered deeply and meaningfully by people making this choice...there are no guarantees but having a child just so someone can change your diaper when your 90 is NOT a good reason in my book to make that decision now.

I believe you have to want--in your heart of hearts and soul of souls--to bring another human being into the world (or into your home as AGBF so eloquently stated in her earlier post) and nurture and love him/her, and put all your needs and wants aside for that child. THAT is being a mother [or a father for that matter]--not simply pushing out a baby. Anyone can do that.

Very well said!

I often hear that I will change my mind and/or regret my decision later. I have to say, I''ve been hearing that for about 15 years now (I''ve known for a long time that I don''t want children). People keep telling me that my biological clock is ticking and that I will wish I had someone to care for me later in life.

I know WAY too many families who have had strife and their children have left home at 18, never to be heard from again. That doesn''t sound very rewarding to me.... Granted, I know this is the exception not the rule. But I have made other accommodations for my care if/when I''m unable to care for myself later.

There''s another way to look at that, you know. The child didn''t *ask* to be born. By choosing to have a child and by choosing to raise and care for that child, you are giving a gift - the gift of life, health, and well-being. Why is it, then, that people often *expect* their children to "return the favor" later in life? Last time I checked, gifts were supposed to be given without expecting anything in return?

 

[jellybean]

Date: 7/8/2005 12:42:52 PM
Author: fire&ice

Date: 7/8/2005 12:22:53 PM
Author: jellybean
6 kids...all MMM has to do is come by my house for an hour.

Well I''m going to come out and say that I was one of those that PM''s sjz and thought she was being unfairly attacked. I think Suzi saying that she received PM''s was not to validate that she was ''right'', just that others agreed with her. There is no right or wrong here - just different opinions.
And just because she is in the minority here and has kids (or so it seems those with kids is the minority) doesn''t mean she''s ''wrong'' for voicing her opinions. I think a lot of people took her posts out of context.

I''ve had pets and now I have kids. I love both, but I never treated my pets like ''kids'' -- and that is just me personally. It''s safe to say that those that don''t have kids (for whatever reason) will never understand those that do and that is fine.

Well - words used are what one objects to. ''NUTS'' ''FANATICAL'' - an opinion is one thing - raising it to a crime against nature is another.

It''s not a leap of faith to treat a pet like in a child like way. In the purest sense, you are their caretaker & nuturer. And, I''ve never said that it is the same love or the same treatment. It''s a dog for pete''s sake. It''s a different love. It would be sad to see either pet or child not be nutured & cared for.

And, to think that I will never understand that love and bond one has for a child is arrogant just because I haven''t had the FIRST HAND ON experience. I witness it with my friends & I saw the pain my mother had to go through when losing one of her own. I don''t think anyone was equating the two on an equal level.

People can be just as ''nuts'' in the way they treat their kids. It''s just that the ramification of those actions can affect society.

I guess I am thankful for all those that surround me that UNDERSTAND how much my pet''s mean to me. I''m also grateful that they RESPECT our situation. I''m also grateful that I have enough empathy to respect their situation.

I''m so done with this.

I was not necessarily referring to the love and bond that one has for a child (although after re-reading my post I could see how one could think that''s what I was saying), mainly the whole experience -- starting by being up all night with them, going through colic, the terrible two''s, etc. F&I == I''m glad you can empathize b/c a lot of people can''t.

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 7/8/2005 1:02:19 PM
Author: jellybean

Date: 7/8/2005 12:42:52 PM
Author: fire&ice

Date: 7/8/2005 12:22:53 PM
Author: jellybean
6 kids...all MMM has to do is come by my house for an hour.

Well I''m going to come out and say that I was one of those that PM''s sjz and thought she was being unfairly attacked. I think Suzi saying that she received PM''s was not to validate that she was ''right'', just that others agreed with her. There is no right or wrong here - just different opinions.
And just because she is in the minority here and has kids (or so it seems those with kids is the minority) doesn''t mean she''s ''wrong'' for voicing her opinions. I think a lot of people took her posts out of context.

I''ve had pets and now I have kids. I love both, but I never treated my pets like ''kids'' -- and that is just me personally. It''s safe to say that those that don''t have kids (for whatever reason) will never understand those that do and that is fine.

Well - words used are what one objects to. ''NUTS'' ''FANATICAL'' - an opinion is one thing - raising it to a crime against nature is another.

It''s not a leap of faith to treat a pet like in a child like way. In the purest sense, you are their caretaker & nuturer. And, I''ve never said that it is the same love or the same treatment. It''s a dog for pete''s sake. It''s a different love. It would be sad to see either pet or child not be nutured & cared for.

And, to think that I will never understand that love and bond one has for a child is arrogant just because I haven''t had the FIRST HAND ON experience. I witness it with my friends & I saw the pain my mother had to go through when losing one of her own. I don''t think anyone was equating the two on an equal level.

People can be just as ''nuts'' in the way they treat their kids. It''s just that the ramification of those actions can affect society.

I guess I am thankful for all those that surround me that UNDERSTAND how much my pet''s mean to me. I''m also grateful that they RESPECT our situation. I''m also grateful that I have enough empathy to respect their situation.

I''m so done with this.

I was not necessarily referring to the love and bond that one has for a child (although after re-reading my post I could see how one could think that''s what I was saying), mainly the whole experience -- starting by being up all night with them, going through colic, the terrible two''s, etc. F&I == I''m glad you can empathize b/c a lot of people can''t.

Well, all I can say is this. We were quite sleep deprived when our pup came home. Difference is we can lock the devil in his crate & the sleep deprivation only lasted a week or two.

To me, why focus on the differences? Why not focus on the similarities? The love is different. The level of care & committment is different. But, there are plenty of cross overs.

BTW, I''ve always been a big believer in people understanding that dogs are just that. They are a different species. So, the way that a dog looks at life is different than humans. But, all creatures respond to love & nuturing.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 7/8/2005 12:22:53 PM
Author: jellybean
6 kids...all MMM has to do is come by my house for an hour.

Well I''m going to come out and say that I was one of those that PM''s sjz and thought she was being unfairly attacked. I think Suzi saying that she received PM''s was not to validate that she was ''right'', just that others agreed with her. There is no right or wrong here - just different opinions.
And just because she is in the minority here and has kids (or so it seems those with kids is the minority) doesn''t mean she''s ''wrong'' for voicing her opinions. I think a lot of people took her posts out of context.

I''ve had pets and now I have kids. I love both, but I never treated my pets like ''kids'' -- and that is just me personally. It''s safe to say that those that don''t have kids (for whatever reason) will never understand those that do and that is fine.

yep,we''re the minority here.

i have a friend whom said "wish i can afford to have another kid" you know what''s amazing? this couple has no problem paying all those high vet bills.

 

[jellybean]

Date: 7/8/2005 1:12:40 PM
Author: fire&ice

Date: 7/8/2005 1:02:19 PM
Author: jellybean

Date: 7/8/2005 12:42:52 PM
Author: fire&ice

Date: 7/8/2005 12:22:53 PM
Author: jellybean
6 kids...all MMM has to do is come by my house for an hour.

Well I''m going to come out and say that I was one of those that PM''s sjz and thought she was being unfairly attacked. I think Suzi saying that she received PM''s was not to validate that she was ''right'', just that others agreed with her. There is no right or wrong here - just different opinions.
And just because she is in the minority here and has kids (or so it seems those with kids is the minority) doesn''t mean she''s ''wrong'' for voicing her opinions. I think a lot of people took her posts out of context.

I''ve had pets and now I have kids. I love both, but I never treated my pets like ''kids'' -- and that is just me personally. It''s safe to say that those that don''t have kids (for whatever reason) will never understand those that do and that is fine.

Well - words used are what one objects to. ''NUTS'' ''FANATICAL'' - an opinion is one thing - raising it to a crime against nature is another.

It''s not a leap of faith to treat a pet like in a child like way. In the purest sense, you are their caretaker & nuturer. And, I''ve never said that it is the same love or the same treatment. It''s a dog for pete''s sake. It''s a different love. It would be sad to see either pet or child not be nutured & cared for.

And, to think that I will never understand that love and bond one has for a child is arrogant just because I haven''t had the FIRST HAND ON experience. I witness it with my friends & I saw the pain my mother had to go through when losing one of her own. I don''t think anyone was equating the two on an equal level.

People can be just as ''nuts'' in the way they treat their kids. It''s just that the ramification of those actions can affect society.

I guess I am thankful for all those that surround me that UNDERSTAND how much my pet''s mean to me. I''m also grateful that they RESPECT our situation. I''m also grateful that I have enough empathy to respect their situation.

I''m so done with this.

I was not necessarily referring to the love and bond that one has for a child (although after re-reading my post I could see how one could think that''s what I was saying), mainly the whole experience -- starting by being up all night with them, going through colic, the terrible two''s, etc. F&I == I''m glad you can empathize b/c a lot of people can''t.

Well, all I can say is this. We were quite sleep deprived when our pup came home. Difference is we can lock the devil in his crate & the sleep deprivation only lasted a week or two.

To me, why focus on the differences? Why not focus on the similarities? The love is different. The level of care & committment is different. But, there are plenty of cross overs.

BTW, I''ve always been a big believer in people understanding that dogs are just that. They are a different species. So, the way that a dog looks at life is different than humans. But, all creatures respond to love & nuturing.

Agreed!

I was very young when our dog was a pup so I don''t remember everything that went on in having a puppy. Unfortuately my dog died when I was 16. She probably was the most loved dog around! OK, maybe not after reading how some of you feel about your pets!

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 7/6/2005 2:26:26 PM
Author: fire&ice
Thinking you may regret it later is not a reason to start a family. It''s a question one must ask themselves; but, not a reason. Because you don''t know. You may regret HAVING them. I''ve seen this as well.

Honestly.....I''ve seen that a lot more than I''ve seen regrets over not having them.

 

[Jennifer5973]

Date: 7/8/2005 1:29:18 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 7/8/2005 12:22:53 PM
Author: jellybean
6 kids...all MMM has to do is come by my house for an hour.

Well I'm going to come out and say that I was one of those that PM's sjz and thought she was being unfairly attacked. I think Suzi saying that she received PM's was not to validate that she was 'right', just that others agreed with her. There is no right or wrong here - just different opinions.
And just because she is in the minority here and has kids (or so it seems those with kids is the minority) doesn't mean she's 'wrong' for voicing her opinions. I think a lot of people took her posts out of context.

I've had pets and now I have kids. I love both, but I never treated my pets like 'kids' -- and that is just me personally. It's safe to say that those that don't have kids (for whatever reason) will never understand those that do and that is fine.

yep,we're the minority here.

i have a friend whom said 'wish i can afford to have another kid' you know what's amazing? this couple has no problem paying all those high vet bills.

Maybe they pay the high vet bills becasue the made a commitment to the animal and to take care of it. Maybe they see the animal and all the love it gives as an integral aprt of their family and are willing to do right by the pet and take care of it. Regardless of whether you wants kids, pets or both, if you make a commitment to EITHER, you'd better be prepared to live up to it.

I have a *real* issue with people who treat animals/pets like "things" they can toss out when they feel like it. They are sensitive, living souls with emotions and feelings. So, back to the original point after 5 pages...if you really don't want and/or can't properly take care of your pet (or kid) don't have one.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 7/7/2005 12:32:30 AM
Author: sjz

And as I said, many people have a hard time liking kids, or feeling anything for other people''s kids, but would NOT feel that way if they were to have children of their own.

And there are some people who have children believing that they will feel this way if the children are their own.

Only problem.....what happens when they have them, and they still DON''T feel that? Can''t change your mind then....it''s too late.

My friend had a child young.....and while she loves her daughter, I can tell you that she also feels deep resentment at the things she missed out on. College as a regular student instead of going full-time, the constant struggling, the always, always, ALWAYS having to put one''s self second.

Some people are suited for it, and some aren''t. It''s wise for those who think they aren''t to heed that voice.

 

[hlmr]

Date: 7/8/2005 1:29:18 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 7/8/2005 12:22:53 PM
Author: jellybean
6 kids...all MMM has to do is come by my house for an hour.

Well I''m going to come out and say that I was one of those that PM''s sjz and thought she was being unfairly attacked. I think Suzi saying that she received PM''s was not to validate that she was ''right'', just that others agreed with her. There is no right or wrong here - just different opinions.
And just because she is in the minority here and has kids (or so it seems those with kids is the minority) doesn''t mean she''s ''wrong'' for voicing her opinions. I think a lot of people took her posts out of context.

I''ve had pets and now I have kids. I love both, but I never treated my pets like ''kids'' -- and that is just me personally. It''s safe to say that those that don''t have kids (for whatever reason) will never understand those that do and that is fine.

yep,we''re the minority here.

i have a friend whom said ''wish i can afford to have another kid'' you know what''s amazing? this couple has no problem paying all those high vet bills.

I thought I would chime in again since I posted in this thread earlier and I too am in the minority, but sadly things seem to have gone way down hill since then.

Everyone is definitely very entitled to their own opinion but no one can really identify with someone else''s point of view unless you have experienced what they are defending and even then, no two people''s experiences are going to be the same.

My mother always said that I couldn''t possibly understand how she felt sometimes until I had children of my own, and now I know that she was right.

In my earlier post I tried to explain as well as possible how the love for my dog and the love for my child are so different. I guess though it comes down to this: As much as my dog is "my baby" and I love him and take care of him, I wouldn''t take a bullet for him nor would I gladly reverse places with him if he were dying of a fatal illness.

Heather

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 7/7/2005 10:30:51 AM
Author: sjz

My neighbors are a perfect example of that. They have a son who is around the same age as my son. They also have a dog. The dog is shown more affection and attention than the boy. The boy''s mother takes the dog for long walks, takes him jogging with her, plays fetch, and takes the dog swimming in the lake. I have almost NEVER seen her outside playing with the little boy. Most of the time he''s over at OUR house playing with my son and my son''s friends. She also comes home from work on her lunch hour every day to take her dog out and play with him so that he won''t get ''lonely'', while the son goes to daycare all day, even in the summer when she''s not working (she''s a middle school teacher). Everyone in the neighborhood thinks it''s really sad. This couple had the child later in life, too. She was 40 when she got pregnant with him. She has made a few comments to the effect that she wasn''t all that happy when she found out that she was going to be a mother at 40!

This so well illustrates what I mentioned before. There are some folks who know they don''t want to have children, but they succumb to the pressure from others and the reassurances that "oh, you will feel differently when it''s your own child."

Well, not always....as perfectly illustrated above. And then who pays the price? The child pays. That''s just not right. She would have been better off following her instincts to stay child-free.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 7/7/2005 7:10:08 PM
Author: sjz
I have noticed something, in real life, not just here...people who are EXCLUSIVELY pet people and have no kids are the ones who are constantly trying to push thier pets down other people''s throats, and make OTHER people treat and veiw their pets in the same way as children. That''s what bugs me.

And I''ve noticed in real life that some people who have children are constantly trying to push their children (some of whom are complete brats) down other people''s throats, and make other people feel bad about the love they have for their pets. The pendulum swings equally both ways.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 7/7/2005 10:13:49 PM
Author: Dancing Fire
i think for couples that don''t have childrens or grand childrens, will find out later on in life if they regret it or not .your pets won''t be able to drive you to the doctors or run earrends for you.

I hate to point this out, but having kids is no guarantee that you''ll have someone to do those things either.

One of my friends was struggling recently with the child/no children thing recently, especially when her grandmother died. At nearly 30 years old, she was really feeling her mortality for the first time, and feeling the need for family ties. The woman who''s never wanted children all of the sudden thought she might be changing her mind.

Fast forward a year - now she''s back to "not having them". I asked what changed. She said "I think I felt a need to have children so there would be someone to take care of me when I''m older.....but the truth is, I could have them and they might move away and not be close enough to do those things anyway. They would have lives of their own, and it''s presumptuous of me to think that having children *obligates* them to be support system later on."

Right on the money. I see plenty of older folks with kids now who have their own lives and contribute not much of value to their elderly parents. There are no guarantees.

 

[strmrdr]

Iv been following this thread and it makes me sad.
Cant we even talk about wonderful animals without getting into a huge argument?


For the record and on topic id love a dog and maybe a kid but aint getting either anytime soon.
An apartment is no place for a dog and I aint married yet so both are pretty much out for now.

 

[Libster]

I/We, mainly me, swung on the pendulum of "should we have kids" or "shouldn''t we have kids" for many years. Hubby was never vocal about wanting to or not wanting to, and honestly we would have the discussion because I knew not to count on great fertility after 40 or if I would even want to begin my life as a Mother at that age. 40 was my self imposed deadline and hubby was fully aware of this, as well. Needless to say 40 has rolled around and there are no two legged children in this household, only the four legged kind. I''ve always had either a cat or dog while growing up and can''t imagine my house without one, as others can''t imagine their lives without children.

Do I have regrets for not having children? Will I have regrets for not having a child? I don''t live my life regretting what I did or didn''t do, I made choices and the chips fell and this is my life. I experienced pregnancy at 37 and the miscarriage that followed and even then was ready to face Motherhood, but was terrified of the prospect. Things for us worked out the way they were meant to be.

 

[longtimelurker]

Date: 7/5/2005 6:46:30 PM
Author:MINE!!
Dog or cat?

NOW I do not mean becuase they cannot have one where they live or anything like that. I mean do you prefer not to have a dog or cat and I am curious to hear why?

Going back to the original topic, and not what it morphed into...I have periods in my life where I prefer NOT to have a dog and/or cat, and periods in my life when I would prefer TO have a dog and/or cat. Don''t misinterpret that to mean in any way, shape or form to mean I view pets as disposable. Quite the contrary, I chose NOT to have specific pets because it would be unfair to them to be in that situation, or the situation I could see my life leading to.

We didn''t have any pets for the first 3-5 years of marriage, since where we were living was so unsettled. But once it was settled, we adopted a 1+ year old cat. And did that specifically since we couldn''t be home enough for kittens, cute as they may be. The dog didn''t come until someone would be home the vast majority of the day, and the kids were old enough not to abuse him (the youngest was 5). I try to take everyone''s needs into account. For example, does my need for no dog hair in the house & his nails doing a number on the hardwood floors supercede my dog-crazy child''s need to have a real dog? And what are the realistic expenditures now & in the future and how does that jive with the other expenditures of the other members of our family? Each pet we have adopted was taken in only if we could realistically commit to providing it a suitable life for the rest of their lives. That''s the ideal I strive towards, but sometimes sh&t happens too.

 

[AGBF]

Date: 7/8/2005 2:54:22 PM
Author: strmrdr
Cant we even talk about wonderful animals without getting into a huge argument?

Do you mean in theory or in reality? Theoretically, it is surely possible. The reality? This thread is the answer.

To cheer you up, though, this is not a topic that never elicits conflict. When I was growing up my mother told me never to discuss religion, politics, or raising children! The first two topics are taboo according to conventional wisdom, but the last addition was her own. She learned from bitter experience that she kept her friendships on a more even keel when she and her friends eschewed discussions on child-rearing!

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 7/8/2005 7:49:21 PM
Author: AGBF

Date: 7/8/2005 2:54:22 PM
Author: strmrdr
Cant we even talk about wonderful animals without getting into a huge argument?

Do you mean in theory or in reality? Theoretically, it is surely possible. The reality? This thread is the answer.

To cheer you up, though, this is not a topic that never elicits conflict. When I was growing up my mother told me never to discuss religion, politics, or raising children! The first two topics are taboo according to conventional wisdom, but the last addition was her own. She learned from bitter experience that she kept her friendships on a more even keel when she and her friends eschewed discussions on child-rearing!

Which should start an interesting thread. Believe it or not I keep my mouth shut EXCEPT when the topic sort of goes there. I refused to go into a door until my 13 year old nephew opened it....to a very shy shipish grim. Oh gosh & then there is my friend who is in total denial that her little girl (6th grade) needs a bra. What to do? Sometimes people on the outside see inside better.

BTW, the the NOT opening of the door is something his father would be MORTIFIED at. Southern gentlemen breeding and all that

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 7/8/2005 2:39:36 PM
Author: aljdewey

Date: 7/7/2005 10:13:49 PM
Author: Dancing Fire
i think for couples that don''t have childrens or grand childrens, will find out later on in life if they regret it or not .your pets won''t be able to drive you to the doctors or run earrends for you.

I see plenty of older folks with kids now who have their own lives and contribute not much of value to their elderly parents. There are no guarantees.

true but,i can guarantee my pet parrot won''t take me out to dinner on my birthdays,even though he/she

keep on saying "I LOVE YOU,GIVE ME A KISS"

 

[Libster]

DF,
We were at Petsmart this past weekend and they had the most beautiful Blue Macaw. He was so friendly and vocal. I just imagine having a bird is great!

 

[sjz]

In retrospect, I think if I had a pole a MILE long, it would not have been long enough!

 

[sjz]

Date: 7/8/2005 2:03:02 PM
Author: aljdewey

Date: 7/7/2005 12:32:30 AM
Author: sjz

And as I said, many people have a hard time liking kids, or feeling anything for other people''s kids, but would NOT feel that way if they were to have children of their own.

And there are some people who have children believing that they will feel this way if the children are their own.

Only problem.....what happens when they have them, and they still DON''T feel that? Can''t change your mind then....it''s too late.

My friend had a child young.....and while she loves her daughter, I can tell you that she also feels deep resentment at the things she missed out on. College as a regular student instead of going full-time, the constant struggling, the always, always, ALWAYS having to put one''s self second.

Some people are suited for it, and some aren''t. It''s wise for those who think they aren''t to heed that voice.

In a case like your friend''s, it sounds as if she regrets having her daughter *when* she did as opposed to regreting having her at all. There is a difference, I think. My oldest was also born when I was young (22) and in a bad marriage. I never had regrets about having him, but had regrets aplenty for having him at the age I had him, and under the circumstances in which he was born into the world. My younger two children are a different story. Both came along when I was more mature, much more ready for them, and in a stable marriage to a man that I could trust. No regrets ever over anything with them. I love all three of my kids the same, but my life would have been absolutely different if I had not had my oldest when I did.

I also agree that some people are not suited to be parents. Those people often just don''t think before they have a child, or have a child for the wrong reasons. Not so unlike people who go out and get a puppy or a kitten because they think it''s cute and cuddly, but no longer have a desire to own a pet once the pet is older, or they have to spend money on vet bills, or the pet poops on the floor, or shreds the sofa cushions. There are a lot of people like that in the world, too. At least if you get a pet that you can''t handle or no longer desire, you have options. I once had to give a puppy away to another family because she had health problems that, at the time, I wasn''t financially or situationally able to handle. I made sure that she was given to good people in a good home who were much more able to care for her needs than I was at the time. You can''t do that as easily with children, unfortunately.

 

[sjz]

Date: 7/8/2005 9:18:35 PM
Author: Libster
DF,
We were at Petsmart this past weekend and they had the most beautiful Blue Macaw. He was so friendly and vocal. I just imagine having a bird is great!

I have a totally burning question about that store...whenever my daughter and I drive past and see that sign, we always wonder something. Is it supposed to be PET SMART or PETS MART?

 

[sjz]

Date: 7/8/2005 2:18:11 PM
Author: aljdewey

Date: 7/7/2005 10:30:51 AM
Author: sjz

My neighbors are a perfect example of that. They have a son who is around the same age as my son. They also have a dog. The dog is shown more affection and attention than the boy. The boy''s mother takes the dog for long walks, takes him jogging with her, plays fetch, and takes the dog swimming in the lake. I have almost NEVER seen her outside playing with the little boy. Most of the time he''s over at OUR house playing with my son and my son''s friends. She also comes home from work on her lunch hour every day to take her dog out and play with him so that he won''t get ''lonely'', while the son goes to daycare all day, even in the summer when she''s not working (she''s a middle school teacher). Everyone in the neighborhood thinks it''s really sad. This couple had the child later in life, too. She was 40 when she got pregnant with him. She has made a few comments to the effect that she wasn''t all that happy when she found out that she was going to be a mother at 40!

This so well illustrates what I mentioned before. There are some folks who know they don''t want to have children, but they succumb to the pressure from others and the reassurances that ''oh, you will feel differently when it''s your own child.''

Well, not always....as perfectly illustrated above. And then who pays the price? The child pays. That''s just not right. She would have been better off following her instincts to stay child-free.

I tried to reply to this post, but I think I hit the wrong button and deleted it...here goes again.

To be fair, I don''t think that my neighbor succumbed to pressure to have a baby, or made a concious decision that she might feel differently after the child was born. I get the distinct impression from conversations that I''ve had with her that this was an accidental unplanned pregnancy. We haven''t delved personally enough into the matter for me to discern whether or not the pregnancy was a result of carelessness on their part, birth control failure, or just one of those things that sometimes happens no matter how careful you are. I do know that the child has most definetly paid the price, but I feel that the parents have paid as well. One thing that also bothers me, is that I feel that their dog is soon going to suffer the same fate as the boy. She is a relatively new aquisition to the family, and is still pretty much in the puppy stages. While I have seen the woman out playing with and spending time with the dog, I rarely see the husband or the little boy anywhere near the dog. The past few conversations that I''ve had with this woman have led me to believe that they might be coming a bit disheartened with pet ownership. She''s been complaining to me about the dog chewing things, and needing a lot more time than she bargained for. I have tried to be encouraging, and even suggested that she take the dog to obedience training, or maybe look into getting a dog walker once in a while. I hope I''m wrong, though.

 

[sjz]

Date: 7/8/2005 2:32:21 PM
Author: aljdewey

Date: 7/7/2005 7:10:08 PM
Author: sjz
I have noticed something, in real life, not just here...people who are EXCLUSIVELY pet people and have no kids are the ones who are constantly trying to push thier pets down other people''s throats, and make OTHER people treat and veiw their pets in the same way as children. That''s what bugs me.

And I''ve noticed in real life that some people who have children are constantly trying to push their children (some of whom are complete brats) down other people''s throats, and make other people feel bad about the love they have for their pets. The pendulum swings equally both ways.

I apologize if this ends up being a double post...I''m using my laptop tonight and sometimes I hit the wrong button when I''m posting.

You are right again. I do know that the pendulum swings both ways. Just as much as I think that some people are overboard about their pets (I''ll refrain from using the word fanatical again), there certainly are people who are the same way about their kids! And I don''t tolerate people like that too much, either.

I''ve had people who were pet lovers hold grudges against me because I didn''t wish them to bring their dog to my dinner party, because I had better things to do than attend their pet''s birthday party or send their pet a birthday card. My own sister even got pretty ticked off at me because when she came for Christmas one year, I didn''t hang a stocking on the fireplace for her dog (I didn''t hang one for my own dog, either). I didn''t have a problem with her bringing her doggie along for the holiday festivities, however.

On the flip side of the coin, I have an aquaintance who won''t come over to my house anymore. She used to come over all the time, but would always allow her kids to go all over my house with open cans of soda. They would spill it everywhere...in my kids'' toy box, on the floor, on the beds, everywhere! I finally told her that I wouldn''t allow her kids to continue having sodas in my house unless they sat in the kitchen and drank them. She felt like I was being unreasonable in regard to this matter, even though I don''t even allow my OWN kids to walk around with open soda cans all over the house. She stopped coming over. I wasn''t the least bit broken hearted about it, either. I always kind of thought that she pushed her spoiled bratty kids on everyone, and since she didn''t apparently believe in rules or discipline, didn''t feel that other''s had a right to believe in it either.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 7/8/2005 8:22:45 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 7/8/2005 2:39:36 PM
Author: aljdewey

Date: 7/7/2005 10:13:49 PM
Author: Dancing Fire
i think for couples that don''t have childrens or grand childrens, will find out later on in life if they regret it or not .your pets won''t be able to drive you to the doctors or run earrends for you.

I see plenty of older folks with kids now who have their own lives and contribute not much of value to their elderly parents. There are no guarantees.

true but,i can guarantee my pet parrot won''t take me out to dinner on my birthdays,even though he/she

keep on saying ''I LOVE YOU,GIVE ME A KISS''

That''s very true. My dog won''t take me out to dinner either on my birthdays......but he will at least acknowledge my presence VERY ENTHUSIASTICALLY when I come home......every single night, for as long as he''s around. My best friend''s 17-year old son isn''t quite as enthusiastic when his mother comes home....to the point of not even acknowledging her many times.

Here''s a few other things my dog won''t do: He won''t call me from school telling me he''s suspended for drug possession. He won''t take for granted all the time and love I''ve invested into him. He won''t decide to take the car without permission--with only a learner''s permit--and crash it into two other parked cars a few streets away. He won''t color in permanent marker on every wall in the downstairs level of my house. He won''t get mixed up with a gang. He won''t throw a party with booze in my house for a bunch of other teenagers, putting ME at risk for getting arrested for allowing minors to have alcohol.

Yep.....this is a tough one. How badly do I reeeeeeally want that dinner? Not quite that badly.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 7/8/2005 1:29:18 PM
Author: Dancing Fire
i have a friend whom said ''wish i can afford to have another kid'' you know what''s amazing? this couple has no problem paying all those high vet bills.

Yes, those are completely equivalent. Vet bills are totally comparable to what it costs to raise a child today......NOT.

Try this one on for size. Even the most "over the top", indulgent pet owners I know don''t spend this much money monthly for vet bills/pet expenses.

http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/CollegeandFamily/Raisekids/P118759.asp?gt1=6708

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 7/9/2005 1:42:22 AM
Author: sjz

In a case like your friend''s, it sounds as if she regrets having her daughter *when* she did as opposed to regreting having her at all. There is a difference, I think. My oldest was also born when I was young (22) and in a bad marriage. I never had regrets about having him, but had regrets aplenty for having him at the age I had him, and under the circumstances in which he was born into the world. My younger two children are a different story. Both came along when I was more mature, much more ready for them, and in a stable marriage to a man that I could trust. No regrets ever over anything with them. I love all three of my kids the same, but my life would have been absolutely different if I had not had my oldest when I did.

I also agree that some people are not suited to be parents. Those people often just don''t think before they have a child, or have a child for the wrong reasons. Not so unlike people who go out and get a puppy or a kitten because they think it''s cute and cuddly, but no longer have a desire to own a pet once the pet is older, or they have to spend money on vet bills, or the pet poops on the floor, or shreds the sofa cushions. There are a lot of people like that in the world, too. At least if you get a pet that you can''t handle or no longer desire, you have options. I once had to give a puppy away to another family because she had health problems that, at the time, I wasn''t financially or situationally able to handle. I made sure that she was given to good people in a good home who were much more able to care for her needs than I was at the time. You can''t do that as easily with children, unfortunately.

I can see where the wording would make it sound so, but no......I meant she regrets having become a mother at all. The point in her being young is that she wasn''t mature enough to think through first how much would be involved. Had she been older and made those considerations (as many here have), she likely would have elected not to have children.

And you''re right - you cannot give children away......all the more reason to listen to one''s OWN HEART when deciding whether having children is right for one''s self. Assurances from others that "you will feel differently when they are your own children" are empty unless those doing the assuring will step in the take the children if that warm, fuzzy feeling *doesn''t* materialize. I don''t think so.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 7/9/2005 3:05:29 AM
Author: sjz

Date: 7/8/2005 2:18:11 PM
Author: aljdewey

Date: 7/7/2005 10:30:51 AM
Author: sjz

My neighbors are a perfect example of that. They have a son who is around the same age as my son. They also have a dog. The dog is shown more affection and attention than the boy. The boy''s mother takes the dog for long walks, takes him jogging with her, plays fetch, and takes the dog swimming in the lake. I have almost NEVER seen her outside playing with the little boy. Most of the time he''s over at OUR house playing with my son and my son''s friends. She also comes home from work on her lunch hour every day to take her dog out and play with him so that he won''t get ''lonely'', while the son goes to daycare all day, even in the summer when she''s not working (she''s a middle school teacher). Everyone in the neighborhood thinks it''s really sad. This couple had the child later in life, too. She was 40 when she got pregnant with him. She has made a few comments to the effect that she wasn''t all that happy when she found out that she was going to be a mother at 40!

This so well illustrates what I mentioned before. There are some folks who know they don''t want to have children, but they succumb to the pressure from others and the reassurances that ''oh, you will feel differently when it''s your own child.''

Well, not always....as perfectly illustrated above. And then who pays the price? The child pays. That''s just not right. She would have been better off following her instincts to stay child-free.

To be fair, I don''t think that my neighbor succumbed to pressure to have a baby, or made a concious decision that she might feel differently after the child was born. I get the distinct impression from conversations that I''ve had with her that this was an accidental unplanned pregnancy.

My point wasn''t that your neighbor actually succumbed to pressure to have a baby.....my point was that she didn''t WANT parenthood, and it seems her attitude didn''t miraculously change once she had the child, so her behavior reflected that. The key is people WANTING children in the first place. "Unplanned" doesn''t necessarily mean "unwanted".

My comment was meant to say that this behavior is also quite likely to occur when people who lean toward not having children get pressure from other and everyone gushes about how wonderful it is and how "there''s nothing like your own child". Then, baby is born and mom *doesn''t* feel those stirrings.....and behavior similar to your neighbor''s is the result.

What if you have your child and you don''t feel differently when it''s your own? Too bad - you can''t "undo" it.

 

[icekid]

I can''t believe this has turned into an argument! Bizarre.

Anyway, people who want dogs/cats should have them. And people who want children should have them. People should NOT have children so they will take care of them in old age. It''s THAT easy! If people want to call their animals "furbabies" then so be it! But I don''t think you can compare that love to that which parents have for children.

I am considering going into some form of pediatrics, and EVERY pediatrician I have spoken with has said you cannot be a really good pediatrician until you have your own children! And it makes sense to me. As much as I LOVE my dog, if I had to (hypothetically) choose between him and my sister (or any family member), I would choose my sister EVERY TIME. And though my dog is absolutely an important part of my family, he could be replaced a lot easier than my sister. And yet, I don''t pretend to understand the feelings that someone has for their children, because I don''t have any.

On the flipside of the people who dislike children, I want to be a pediatrician so I get to deal with them BEFORE they become fat, smelly, whiny, unhappy adults

Ok, perhaps that is (half) in jest. But children have always been drawn to me for some reason. They have a life force that is unlike anything you will find in most adults. They are strong, resilient, energetic, and full of everything that is good about life (even the bratty ones with indulgent parents, often!). Plus, people that work in pediatrics are far happier and nicer than people who deal with adults, and I am all for that.

I did not PM sjz, but I can certainly see where she is coming from and why she felt attacked. And I have no problem saying so here either