Appraisal done locally WAY OFF...what gives?

[edmontonflora]

I''m located in Edmonton, AB, Canada. If anyone can direct me to a good jeweler after reading my rant, please let me know!

My bf purchased a diamond from Whiteflash and we had Mark Morrell set it in the Torchiere(pics are in SMTR). I went to one of the most high end jewelry stores in the city today and had an appraisal done so we could get some insurance for it. I''m fuming right now because a) it was almost $70Cdn for what seemed like very little info(how detailed are appraisals usually?) b) the estimated replacement value is over 250% what we paid(even after currency exchange) so the insurance will be $$$ and the worst c) they were off by 2 color grades, 2 clarity grades and short carats(AGS 1.098, them 1.0. Maybe I should''ve asked more questions when I was there but I was just so shocked at the differences. This is not some maul store but one of the higher end stores in the city. Now it looks like we''ll have to spend more money to get another appraisal. Is this normal?? For the appraisal to be this off?? I know it''s a bit more difficult to grade because the diamond''s already mounted but really...

Okay, now I need to cool off.

 

[karend26]

Wow! That''s a bummer!!! I''m always a little suspect of appraisers in a store, because I wonder if they''ll have alterior motives to try to sell you something.

Were they off 2 color and clarity grades up or down???

 

[neatfreak]

Unfortunately appraisers aren''t all equal...there are many crappy ones out there and many of them work in jewelry stores. You want an *independent* appraiser-i.e., one that doesn''t have a potential stake in what/where you purchase your stone.

Appraising is subjective so if you have someone who is inexperienced or trying to undermine your confidence in your purchase (so they can step in and sell you something else) it can be a bad experience.

 

[Indira-London]

Without wishing to stick up for the local store - it is hard to appraise a diamond accurately once it is set in a ring - more accurate results are when the diamond is loose.
Did you show them the diamond certificate?
Either way, it is likely that they valued it based on the price they would charge for such a diamond - as you said it is a high end store.

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 1/21/2009 5:15:31 PM
Author: neatfreak
Unfortunately appraisers aren''t all equal...there are many crappy ones out there and many of them work in jewelry stores. You want an *independent* appraiser-i.e., one that doesn''t have a potential stake in what/where you purchase your stone.

Appraising is subjective so if you have someone who is inexperienced or trying to undermine your confidence in your purchase (so they can step in and sell you something else) it can be a bad experience.

Ditto. I''d get an independent appraisal.

 

[edmontonflora]

AGS: I, VS2, 1.098
Them: G, VVS2, 1.08

The appraiser had G.G., R.M.V. behind her name. What do they stand for?

I wasn''t going to list the price but it may help to figure out what happened.

Our total with WF, Mark Morrell and tax in Canada: slightly under $9000 Canadian
Their estimated replacement value: $23,800!!!

We were hoping for something around $10000-$12000, not $23,800. That''s just SO wrong to us.

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 1/21/2009 5:19:18 PM
Author: edmontonflora
AGS: I, VS2, 1.098

Them: G, VVS2, 1.08


The appraiser had G.G., R.M.V. behind her name. What do they stand for?


I wasn't going to list the price but it may help to figure out what happened.


Our total with WF, Mark Morrell and tax in Canada: slightly under $9000 Canadian

Their estimated replacement value: $23,800!!!


We were hoping for something around $10000-$12000, not $23,800. That's just SO wrong to us.

Unfortunately it generally means they've taken some classes, that's really it. There's nothing to figure out here other than that the appraiser probably isn't a good one/isn't very experienced. Why can't you just submit Mark's invoice and the AGS cert/whiteflash invoice? usually that is enough for insurance purposes.

Often appraisals drastically overinflate their values, so you often need to ask them to do just replacement value at low retail.

 

[edmontonflora]

We chose this particular store because we thought they would be reliable and fairly accurate seeing as they service a clientele that would/should expect as much. Should I have brought the AGS cert in? Shouldn''t they grade independent of that anyways?

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 1/21/2009 5:27:35 PM
Author: edmontonflora
We chose this particular store because we thought they would be reliable and fairly accurate seeing as they service a clientele that would/should expect as much. Should I have brought the AGS cert in? Shouldn''t they grade independent of that anyways?

Yes they should, but just because they are a nice jewelry store does not mean they are good at appraisals...

 

[edmontonflora]

Date: 1/21/2009 5:27:31 PM
Author: neatfreak

Date: 1/21/2009 5:19:18 PM

Author: edmontonflora

AGS: I, VS2, 1.098


Them: G, VVS2, 1.08



The appraiser had G.G., R.M.V. behind her name. What do they stand for?



I wasn''t going to list the price but it may help to figure out what happened.



Our total with WF, Mark Morrell and tax in Canada: slightly under $9000 Canadian


Their estimated replacement value: $23,800!!!



We were hoping for something around $10000-$12000, not $23,800. That''s just SO wrong to us.

Unfortunately it generally means they''ve taken some classes, that''s really it. There''s nothing to figure out here other than that the appraiser probably isn''t a good one/isn''t very experienced. Why can''t you just submit Mark''s invoice and the AGS cert/whiteflash invoice? usually that is enough for insurance purposes.


Often appraisals drastically overinflate their values, so you often need to ask them to do just replacement value at low retail.

I can check with my insurance company if that would be okay but at the same time we also wanted a verification for ourselves of the diamond. This has been our first opportunity to get it appraised since it''s been between WF and Mark Morrell the last few months.

 

[edmontonflora]

Date: 1/21/2009 5:28:42 PM
Author: neatfreak

Date: 1/21/2009 5:27:35 PM

Author: edmontonflora

We chose this particular store because we thought they would be reliable and fairly accurate seeing as they service a clientele that would/should expect as much. Should I have brought the AGS cert in? Shouldn''t they grade independent of that anyways?

Yes they should, but just because they are a nice jewelry store does not mean they are good at appraisals...

I guess that''s my lesson for the day...and I thought I was being all smart by avoiding the big chains at the mall.

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 1/21/2009 5:33:10 PM
Author: edmontonflora

Date: 1/21/2009 5:28:42 PM

Author: neatfreak

Date: 1/21/2009 5:27:35 PM


Author: edmontonflora


We chose this particular store because we thought they would be reliable and fairly accurate seeing as they service a clientele that would/should expect as much. Should I have brought the AGS cert in? Shouldn''t they grade independent of that anyways?

Yes they should, but just because they are a nice jewelry store does not mean they are good at appraisals...

I guess that''s my lesson for the day...and I thought I was being all smart by avoiding the big chains at the mall.

You were smart to avoid the chains at the mall, you just need to take it one step further and find a good independent appraiser.

 

[purrfectpear]

If the only reason you want an appraisal at this point is for insurance, it probably won''t be necessary. My insurance company accepted the evaluation that was provided by Whiteflash.

 

[stone-cold11]

How about going back to them and showing them the reports and invoices you have on the stone and ring and tell them to reappraise it for insurance purposes. As the few appraisers here have said often, there are different types of appraisals, for insurances, for sales, and they also need to factor in the market the jewelery is bought from for a correct pricing.

 

[edmontonflora]

Date: 1/21/2009 5:47:56 PM
Author: Stone-cold11
How about going back to them and showing them the reports and invoices you have on the stone and ring and tell them to reappraise it for insurance purposes. As the few appraisers here have said often, there are different types of appraisals, for insurances, for sales, and they also need to factor in the market the jewelery is bought from for a correct pricing.

On the appraisal, it states the "appraisal function" as "insurance replacement" so this was definitely not for sales. My co-worker thinks the value they gave me is the price they would charge if they were selling it.

 

[iluvdiamond]

Hello,

I am from Edmonton too. I usually take my diamond to Michael in Gemoro Jewelery store in West Edmonton Mall. I think he charges $30 per piece. I''ve heard that he is good as other jewelers send their diamonds for him to appraise. (the Jewelers act as a middle person) Also, there is a lab in Calgary...please see the link >>> http://www.intergemlabs.com/welcome.htm I think that lab will give you a more detailed report. But if you want it just for insurance purpose, I think Michael will be good.

 

[denverappraiser]

There are several issues here:

GG stands for Graduate Gemologist. It’s a diploma issued by GIA. It’s a well regarded gemological credential.
RMV stands for Registered Master Valuer. It’s an appraiser training program in California. It’s a pretty good school and a well regarded credential.

Start by talking to your appraiser. Their contact information should be on the report but, if not, get it from the store. It’s not out of the question that the problem is nothing more than one of communication between you and them that’s being filtered through the store so make sure you’re talking to the person who signed the report. At the very least you need to get the description issue cleared up and this will probably lead to solving the value question. Show them the AGS report, the paperwork from Mark Morrell proving the branding and point out the WF hallmark on the girdle inscription (usually mentioned in the AGS report as well). All of these things should be referenced in the report and it’s entirely reasonable that you should ask for an update with corrections unless they are disputing the fact that it’s a genuine MM or that it’s the same stone that AGS described. I include copies right in my report while other appraisers just reference them by the numbers as some sort of appendix. You paid for these things, you received them and it would not be replacing with ‘like kind and quality’ for your insurer to replace with something less. Since that’s the purpose behind ‘insurance purposes’, you need to get this straight or you will find yourself seriously underinsured, as well as overpaying for it..

Talk to them flat out about your concerns about the value conclusion. Last I checked, the ONLY place you can buy WF-ACA diamonds is from WF and the ONLY place you can buy MM’s work is directly from MM. This will be true for your insurer as well so the question then becomes one of what do WF and MM charge for their goods. You’ve got terrific evidence to both cases in the form of their advertising and the sales receipt for your purchases. Show it.

The fundamental value question in an insurance replacement valuation is: “What is appropriate funding for the insurer to replace the subject piece with another of like kind and quality in the case of a loss?” This doesn’t sound like what was answered but, in defense of the appraiser, it sounds like he/she was working with seriously abbreviated data. Calm down, talk to them about it, show them the full story and get it corrected.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[edmontonflora]

Thanks Neil. I guess the best thing to do is to talk to the appraiser. She was actually the one who handed my ring back to me and went through her findings with me. I didn''t mention the AGS data because I was in a slight state of shock over all the differences. Also, I did not present the AGS cert as I hadn''t been planning to get it appraised so it was at home(last minute decision to get it appraised).