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Are you worried about the Coronavirus?

Spending healing dust to your family @jaaron
 
@voce Steroids are often used as immunosuppression but based on some accounts seem to be worsening things. I don’t know as I’m not an icu physician.

But trust me, docs here will treat with anything they feel is appropriate or helpful regardless of fda approval for covid. We prescribe off label all the time. What we can’t do is use drugs with no fda approval for any use that are still in development. Or drugs that are in such short supply that we can’t get hold of them. Our teams here have dedicated physicians who follow and comb through as much literature coming out about covid as they can to stay on top of things worth trying. It’s just that nothing so far seems a slam dunk.

Italy’s high mortality rate may be related to factors not related to treatment, like average age, health, availability of icu resources etc. too many unknowns. The US may well see higher mortality rates than China related to our own population health issues around diabetes and obesity. It’s just all speculation at this point and doing what we can to plan for the worst and hope for the best.
 
No longer feeling quite so safe. We just got an email from the mayor to tell us that the couple who lived on the town square between the two little cafés, and across from the tiny food store we all frequent, has died of the virus. And there are four cases & one death in the bigger village, which is 12 minutes away. So it has arrived here. I don’t get too rattled. It is what it is and worrying won’t change anything. Just sad.
 
That is frighteningly too close to home @Jimmianne I hope you'll stay healthy and safe.
 
Jimmianne said:
No longer feeling quite so safe. We just got an email from the mayor to tell us that the couple who lived on the town square between the two little cafés, and across from the tiny food store we all frequent, has died of the virus. And there are four cases & one death in the bigger village, which is 12 minutes away. So it has arrived here. I don’t get too rattled. It is what it is and worrying won’t change anything. Just sad.
Click to expand...

I am so sorry @Jimmianne :(
 
MakingTheGrade said:
@voce Steroids are often used as immunosuppression but based on some accounts seem to be worsening things. I don’t know as I’m not an icu physician.

But trust me, docs here will treat with anything they feel is appropriate or helpful regardless of fda approval for covid. We prescribe off label all the time. What we can’t do is use drugs with no fda approval for any use that are still in development. Or drugs that are in such short supply that we can’t get hold of them. Our teams here have dedicated physicians who follow and comb through as much literature coming out about covid as they can to stay on top of things worth trying. It’s just that nothing so far seems a slam dunk.

Italy’s high mortality rate may be related to factors not related to treatment, like average age, health, availability of icu resources etc. too many unknowns. The US may well see higher mortality rates than China related to our own population health issues around diabetes and obesity. It’s just all speculation at this point and doing what we can to plan for the worst and hope for the best.
Click to expand...

What I've been told is that the Chinese were treating with synthesized hormones and not steroids. I know steroids have serious side effects. I understand the safety concern with following procedures and not being able to use drugs with no FDA approval, or you'd get sued for malpractice, but I think in this case China was more effective in not having such a limitation.

I just hope the number of total cases flattens and that we are able to expand our capacity at hospitals. I'm really fearful for anybody who needs the hospital for anything other than COVID-19 now.
 
Random rant....

When someone passes from Covid, I so dislike the mentioning/blaming of ‘underlying health issues.’ Many people have them, (ie asthma, Lyme disease, diabetes, compromised immunities) and they are living full, active lives. Some may not even know they have underlying issues. This verbiage angers me because this implies that, Oh well, they were not healthy already when that’s not always true.... /rant

Sorry!

ETA. hell yeah, I am worried. At the husband’s hospital they are preparing for the hook ups of many many ventilators. DH is there daily...even working OT on this.
 
voce said:
Really anxiety inducing to read the reddit/notes posted by @MakingTheGrade and @missy. The stats coming out are scary. As of March 25 the death rate in Italy is 44.5% in closed cases.

I really believe that the big difference in China is they've figured out the treatment quickly, and they can mobilize resources quickly to roll out PPE. Like I've posted before, the experts in China say the most effective treatment was to administer a dose of antivirals and immune system suppressing hormones, over something like the course of a week. Really doubt that doctors in the US or Italy are going with that. Just intubating people does not seem to be effective. You've got to get them the hormones to prevent sepsis. But, since there's probably more red tape/requirements before certain treatments are approved, and I don't know how available those immune system suppressing hormones are, I fear the worst.

Really hope @Mamabean is able to stay COVID-free, and that @jaaron's family recovers without incident.

Honestly, I personally think I'm at the "bargaining" stage of the "grief" process.

*Edit* at least my family in China seems to be safe and sound from the virus. My uncle and cousin just returned to their homes in Wuhan where they were volunteering as medical support staff. My uncle was berating us for not taking the proper precautions (i.e. not dare to openly wear masks for fear of discrimination and reprisals). My mom is doing delivery, and plenty of people pay with cash, unfortunately. It's rather difficult to disinfect cash; my uncle was telling her to buy alcohol disinfectant spray and spray the dollar bills, and we were trying to tell him we can't buy the stuff because all the stores are out of stock; he didn't believe us and concluded that we're not taking the virus seriously enough.
Click to expand...

I am glad your family is safe and well @voce. I hope the USA starts following the treatment protocol from China which seems to be working well.

I agree with your uncle. Please take all the necessary precautions and please do not worry about what others will think. Please take care of yourself.
 
Slick1 said:
Random rant....

When someone passes from Covid, I so dislike the mentioning/blaming of ‘underlying health issues.’ Many people have them, (ie asthma, Lyme disease, diabetes, compromised immunities) and they are living full, active lives. Some may not even know they have underlying issues. This verbiage angers me because this implies that, Oh well, they were not healthy already when that’s not always true.... /rant

Sorry!

ETA. hell yeah, I am worried. At the husband’s hospital they are preparing for the hook ups of many many ventilators. DH is there daily...even working OT on this.
Click to expand...



@Slick1, I’m so glad I’m not the only one who feels this way. My parents have been living healthy wonderful full lives for years with health conditions. Many people over 50 have health conditions and will go on to live decades longer.

Please tell your husband thank you for all he is doing to help people.
 
Oops, I just noticed I had a typo. My relatives aren't in Wuhan; they returned to their homes FROM Wuhan.

Right now I haven't gone grocery shopping for 2 weeks. I'm finishing off longer term vegetables from 2-3 weeks back like celery and carrot and asparagus, and when I go shopping again I will be wearing my N95 mask and gloves. I already do so when I get gas once a week. But, I didn't do it when I went to the post office on Tuesday, so I need to get better about this.

My boss seems to strongly dislike use of masks at work. I am in an office where there's only 5 people, each with their own spacious desk and space, but my boss's horrified expression when I was coughing from what I believed was a cold in early February (I hadn't traveled anywhere outside the US since September last year to Canada), left such a strong impression that I feel like I'd be scaring people unnecessarily or making them jealous I have masks when they don't.

Since I use a mask for 5-30 minutes at a time, definitely less than an hour's use per week, I've been circulating 3-4 masks and "disinfecting" them by leaving my used masks in the back of my car, where it gets pretty hot and pretty good sunlight. This is not the recommended practice, but I'm trying to leave more masks for my parents who are working in the healthcare and food industries.
 
voce said:
What I've been told is that the Chinese were treating with synthesized hormones and not steroids. I know steroids have serious side effects. I understand the safety concern with following procedures and not being able to use drugs with no FDA approval, or you'd get sued for malpractice, but I think in this case China was more effective in not having such a limitation.

I just hope the number of total cases flattens and that we are able to expand our capacity at hospitals. I'm really fearful for anybody who needs the hospital for anything other than COVID-19 now.
Click to expand...

What about Ziplocking the bills upon receiving them and popping them into the oven @ 65° for five minutes?
They are safe then
 
kipari said:
What about Ziplocking the bills upon receiving them and popping them into the oven @ 65° for five minutes?
They are safe then
Click to expand...

Well, she's taking money from deliveries at the customers' houses. I don't think they have car microwaves. She's just using hand sanitizers and alcohol after she handles cash.
 
voce said:
Oops, I just noticed I had a typo. My relatives aren't in Wuhan; they returned to their homes FROM Wuhan.

Right now I haven't gone grocery shopping for 2 weeks. I'm finishing off longer term vegetables from 2-3 weeks back like celery and carrot and asparagus, and when I go shopping again I will be wearing my N95 mask and gloves. I already do so when I get gas once a week. But, I didn't do it when I went to the post office on Tuesday, so I need to get better about this.

My boss seems to strongly dislike use of masks at work. I am in an office where there's only 5 people, each with their own spacious desk and space, but my boss's horrified expression when I was coughing from what I believed was a cold in early February (I hadn't traveled anywhere outside the US since September last year to Canada), left such a strong impression that I feel like I'd be scaring people unnecessarily or making them jealous I have masks when they don't.

Since I use a mask for 5-30 minutes at a time, definitely less than an hour's use per week, I've been circulating 3-4 masks and "disinfecting" them by leaving my used masks in the back of my car, where it gets pretty hot and pretty good sunlight. This is not the recommended practice, but I'm trying to leave more masks for my parents who are working in the healthcare and food industries.
Click to expand...

I’m not sure where you are but just be cautious about wearing a N95 in public. There’s so much anger and outrage about the shortages of them in hospitals and if you’re also East Asian, I worry it might attract hostile attention. There was a meme of a East Asian man buying boxes of N95s going around that a lot of people were upset about which stoked sinophobia.

Pretty sure if you wore one to any grocery store around here people would go out of their way to be nasty. People are wearing surgical and made at home masks here but not N95s since it got so much media coverage. It sounds silly but you might want to consider wearing a home made mask over your N95 in public.
 
Slick1 said:
Random rant....

When someone passes from Covid, I so dislike the mentioning/blaming of ‘underlying health issues.’ Many people have them, (ie asthma, Lyme disease, diabetes, compromised immunities) and they are living full, active lives. Some may not even know they have underlying issues. This verbiage angers me because this implies that, Oh well, they were not healthy already when that’s not always true.... /rant

Sorry!

ETA. hell yeah, I am worried. At the husband’s hospital they are preparing for the hook ups of many many ventilators. DH is there daily...even working OT on this.
Click to expand...

I totally agree with you @Slick1 I hope your hubby remains healthy..
 
voce said:
Well, she's taking money from deliveries at the customers' houses. I don't think they have car microwaves. She's just using hand sanitizers and alcohol after she handles cash.
Click to expand...

Yes, I understood that.
The hands will be safe with sanitizer after handling the bills. The bills can be zip locked in between.

Why would you want to drench them in alcohol?

You'd still have to sanitize your hands.

Heating them is a solution if you have to count large amounts of small change for a long time.
Just trying to help
 
kipari said:
Yes, I understood that.
The hands will be safe with sanitizer after handling the bills. The bills can be zip locked in between.

Why would you want to drench them in alcohol?

You'd still have to sanitize your hands.

Heating them is a solution if you have to count large amounts of small change for a long time.
Just trying to help
Click to expand...

If you want to be extra cautious you can actually wash cash. My husband leaves bills in his pockets all the time...It gets washed in his pockets. I just take them out and let them dry naturally. They get a little crisp but put them under a pile of books after they dry to flatten them. Bills are cloth..not paper.
 
Last edited:
@Jimmianne ((hugs)), sorry to hear your news. Please take care x
 
voce said:
Really anxiety inducing to read the reddit/notes posted by @MakingTheGrade and @missy. The stats coming out are scary. As of March 25 the death rate in Italy is 44.5% in closed cases.

I really believe that the big difference in China is they've figured out the treatment quickly, and they can mobilize resources quickly to roll out PPE. Like I've posted before, the experts in China say the most effective treatment was to administer a dose of antivirals and immune system suppressing hormones, over something like the course of a week. Really doubt that doctors in the US or Italy are going with that. Just intubating people does not seem to be effective. You've got to get them the hormones to prevent sepsis. But, since there's probably more red tape/requirements before certain treatments are approved, and I don't know how available those immune system suppressing hormones are, I fear the worst.

Really hope @Mamabean is able to stay COVID-free, and that @jaaron's family recovers without incident.

Honestly, I personally think I'm at the "bargaining" stage of the "grief" process.

*Edit* at least my family in China seems to be safe and sound from the virus. My uncle and cousin just returned to their homes in Wuhan where they were volunteering as medical support staff. My uncle was berating us for not taking the proper precautions (i.e. not dare to openly wear masks for fear of discrimination and reprisals). My mom is doing delivery, and plenty of people pay with cash, unfortunately. It's rather difficult to disinfect cash; my uncle was telling her to buy alcohol disinfectant spray and spray the dollar bills, and we were trying to tell him we can't buy the stuff because all the stores are out of stock; he didn't believe us and concluded that we're not taking the virus seriously enough.
Click to expand...

@voce That was so sweet to mention me..I hope everyone here and the world remain COVID free..
I mentioned somewhere on this thread here that you can wash cash as it’s paper. My husband leaves his cash in his pocket all the time. He drives me crazy..I pull it out after the wash and leave it out to dry.
 
@Jimmianne Please stay inside as much as you can...Do you have enough supplies to do that? Hugs..
 
MakingTheGrade said:
I’m not sure where you are but just be cautious about wearing a N95 in public. There’s so much anger and outrage about the shortages of them in hospitals and if you’re also East Asian, I worry it might attract hostile attention. There was a meme of a East Asian man buying boxes of N95s going around that a lot of people were upset about which stoked sinophobia.

Pretty sure if you wore one to any grocery store around here people would go out of their way to be nasty. People are wearing surgical and made at home masks here but not N95s since it got so much media coverage. It sounds silly but you might want to consider wearing a home made mask over your N95 in public.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the warning and suggestion. I have the same concerns, which is why I've only been wearing it for short periods of time, and limiting my time inside stores. The only reason I have some is because a white American family friend who's an apocalyptic hoarder had some from years ago (he worked as a purchasing agent in a manufacturing plant) and offered them to me and my parents. I have purchased zero masks. He made us promise we'd only use them ourselves, not sell or give away.

I'm thinking most people can't tell the difference between N95 or non-N95 fiber-based masks.

But anyway, our reluctance to wear our masks anytime we go outside of our house (to work at Essential Businesses) is why we're getting flak from my uncle in China.
 
MakingTheGrade said:
I’m not sure where you are but just be cautious about wearing a N95 in public. There’s so much anger and outrage about the shortages of them in hospitals and if you’re also East Asian, I worry it might attract hostile attention. There was a meme of a East Asian man buying boxes of N95s going around that a lot of people were upset about which stoked sinophobia.

Pretty sure if you wore one to any grocery store around here people would go out of their way to be nasty. People are wearing surgical and made at home masks here but not N95s since it got so much media coverage. It sounds silly but you might want to consider wearing a home made mask over your N95 in public.
Click to expand...

I've been concerned about this as well. DH and I have an open box of N95s from home renovation use many years ago, with just a couple masks left. We'd like to use them if we have to go out somewhere (which we're trying to avoid - hoping to get what we need delivered). I already checked with my local hospitals, and they can't take any from a box that's already open or very old like these are, so it's not like we're keeping them from health care workers, but I'm concerned about hostility from others, even though I've tried to do my due diligence.
 
Hi.

I cannot understand why you would be deterred from wearing a mask because someone might call you a name. Instead of retorting with an angry response, just say , Oh I'm so lucky, a friend had extra and gave me one. I would never allow someone to scare me so much that I would give up the chance to protect my life and my loved ones. Use those masks. Bullying on this end.

Annette
 
I was looking at the live data (but closed cases only) at https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ (March 25) and noted the following.

Some places have a much higher recovery rate than others:

Singapore 1.2% death 98.8% recovery
South Korea 3.3% death 96.7% recovery
China 4.3% death 95.7% recovery
Germany 5.5% death 94.5% recovery
Taiwan 6.5% death 93.5% recovery
Russia 7.3% death 92.7% recovery
Israel 7.9% death 92.1% recovery
Australia 8.5% death 91.5% recovery
Malaysia 9.1% death 90.9% recovery
Japan 11.6% death 88.4% recovery

Canada 16.3% death 83.7% recovery
Iran 17.8% death 82.2% recovery
United Kingdom 22.6% death 77.4% recovery
Belgium 24.6% death 75.4% recovery
France 25.4% death 74.6% recovery
United States 38.7% death 61.3% recovery
Spain 40.5% death 59.5% recovery
Italy 44.5% death 55.5% recovery

Switzerland 53.9% death 46.1% recovery
Portugal 66.2% 33.8% recovery
Turkey 69.4% death 30.6% recovery
Norway 70.0% death 30.0% recovery
Austria 77.5% death 22.5% recovery
Sweden 79.5% death 20.5% recovery
Brazil 96.7% death 3.3% recovery
Netherlands 99.2% death 0.8% recovery

I think there are a lot of factors at play here. Late diagnosis (such as in the US) surely leads to a higher death rate that should taper down over time as people get tested.

Another issue is that demographics is important. I think Japan is higher than South Korea because of more elderly people (higher average age), and the same may be true for Switzerland (where I guess people go to retire?) compared to Germany.

Even if in the US we cannot have the same kind of response China rolled out, we can try to learn from South Korea and Germany and Australia! I think in South Korea they were tracing and isolating people quite early. I hear Australia has developed a prototype vaccine that's so far been very successful. Curious if anyone has any insight on how Germany is being so successful. Is it just that more Germans are heeding the shelter-in-place and not overwhelming their healthcare system?
 
voce said:
I was looking at the live data (but closed cases only) at https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ (March 25) and noted the following.

Some places have a much higher recovery rate than others:

Singapore 1.2% death 98.8% recovery
South Korea 3.3% death 96.7% recovery
China 4.3% death 95.7% recovery
Germany 5.5% death 94.5% recovery
Taiwan 6.5% death 93.5% recovery
Russia 7.3% death 92.7% recovery
Israel 7.9% death 92.1% recovery
Australia 8.5% death 91.5% recovery
Malaysia 9.1% death 90.9% recovery
Japan 11.6% death 88.4% recovery

Canada 16.3% death 83.7% recovery
Iran 17.8% death 82.2% recovery
United Kingdom 22.6% death 77.4% recovery
Belgium 24.6% death 75.4% recovery
France 25.4% death 74.6% recovery
United States 38.7% death 61.3% recovery
Spain 40.5% death 59.5% recovery
Italy 44.5% death 55.5% recovery

Switzerland 53.9% death 46.1% recovery
Portugal 66.2% 33.8% recovery
Turkey 69.4% death 30.6% recovery
Norway 70.0% death 30.0% recovery
Austria 77.5% death 22.5% recovery
Sweden 79.5% death 20.5% recovery
Brazil 96.7% death 3.3% recovery
Netherlands 99.2% death 0.8% recovery

I think there are a lot of factors at play here. Late diagnosis (such as in the US) surely leads to a higher death rate that should taper down over time as people get tested.

Another issue is that demographics is important. I think Japan is higher than South Korea because of more elderly people (higher average age), and the same may be true for Switzerland (where I guess people go to retire?) compared to Germany.

Even if in the US we cannot have the same kind of response China rolled out, we can try to learn from South Korea and Germany and Australia! I think in South Korea they were tracing and isolating people quite early. I hear Australia has developed a prototype vaccine that's so far been very successful. Curious if anyone has any insight on how Germany is being so successful. Is it just that more Germans are heeding the shelter-in-place and not overwhelming their healthcare system?
Click to expand...

I read an analysis that attributed Germany's success to having a much larger nurse-to-patient ratio. Basically, they have many more nurses who are very well-trained, respected, treated well, and well-paid. Apparently, in historical analyses, this was a factor in better population outcomes in the 1918 flu pandemic as well.
 
Does anyone know if parents are allowed in the hospital isolation area with their child if they get sick? How does that work? I mean, just keep them in and the parent is assumed infected? Or do they get protective gear to hopefully avoid getting sick (if they aren't already)?

(Not asking for anyone in particular. Just curious!)
 
smitcompton said:
Hi.

I cannot understand why you would be deterred from wearing a mask because someone might call you a name. Instead of retorting with an angry response, just say , Oh I'm so lucky, a friend had extra and gave me one. I would never allow someone to scare me so much that I would give up the chance to protect my life and my loved ones. Use those masks. Bullying on this end.

Annette
Click to expand...

Glad you’ve lived a life where you’re not regularly physically threatened or assaulted. Sad to say just today I had a very angry man get in my face about my race and gender. He tried to grab me. Luckily I was close to a shop and stepped in. Would he have actually hurt me? Maybe and maybe not. Chances are he was just trying to scare me. But assaults happen in my city all the time over dumb things. I wasn’t about to “be brave” about it though, it was scary. It’s happened to me countless times, it’s always scary. It’s ok if someone or something scares you, to mitigate your risk appropriately.

I agree people shouldn’t do bad things and bully each other or worse. Doesn’t mean they don’t and doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be aware and make informed decisions and be vigilant.
 
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