Arguing with vendor over purchased Spinel

[Mrsz1ppy]

I haven't relayed that info yet. Might be worth a try? Paid via wire


Hey, I'm not sure if you are mixing my purchase with the OP's? I never posted pics of what I purchased to this thread. Only shared my experience to commiserate, and not my intention to derail from OP's post.

Oh shoot! My bad. Thanks for clarifying for this distracted woman!

 

[Odyssey44]

Nope! Didn't offer refund or exchanges. Told me to evaluate the stone again in a diamond halo ring at a jeweler. I was so tired of feeling gaslighten lol after the whole exchange. Well, I did get the stone look at by a local jeweler today and was told by the jeweler that setting the stone was a risk as well as using the stone as a ring bc of the large fractures, not to mention this jeweler thought I was charged crazy prices. This was all with a vendor whom several people had great experiences with and sang praises on PS and whom I've previously purchased from. Needless to say, I'm not gonna buy stones without seeing them in person anymore. Still shaken from this experience.

Oh Pomo, this is terrible!! I am sorry to hear this. This is worse than my tale. It's a landmine out there!! You should post a picture of what you got vs. what you received. Was your vendor US based or not? Gaslighting is the exact right term.

 

[Odyssey44]

Calling them tilt windows is just basing it on a technicality. Can you look straight through the stone in the top down view? You can. It's clear you consider that an unwelcome distraction and don't want your stone to have such a characteristic.

I still think it's not too bad. The stone really does have a very pretty colour, and a little white metal underneath it in the setting is very likely to solve the issue. I'll second @Rfisher's advice - try it with some foil, you might be surprised by the result.

Also, give yourself some grace. Learning how to evaluate stones by photos is a lengthy process that's unlikely to progress much without an unpleasant experience/lesson every now and again. At the very least, you need to acquire some stones yourself, so that you can get acquainted with how they perform in both real life and in pictures. Without that basis for comparison it would be difficult to learn more.



Ask @Dr_Diesel about his experience with his fuchsia ruby...



Thank you! As you can imagine, I love leafy motifs as well. You're assuming correctly, it's practically impossible to notice a window when wearing the ring. Take it off, and you'll be able to see it, but I guess something about the combination of the colour and skin tone underneath makes it disappear completely.

Thanks as always Avondale. You always have good advice. I have bought only a few before, including one I had a lot of help with on PS--totally changed what I was going to get based on what PSers advised. I was not ready to totally fly on my own yet. This was a learning experience for sure. I am still not sure I see what I was supposed to in the vendor's picture. I will do the foil. I just conked out, dead asleep on the couch. The stress of the situation, while not the end of the world by any means, wiped me out there for awhile. I did wake up thinking, when I first bought a stone I didn't know anything about windows. I have progressed a lot due to PS. I learn something every time.

 

[Odyssey44]

I have been in your position, albeit with inclusions and color rather than window. It is a learning experience, buying a gemstone over the internet. An experience that can be extremely frustrating if a stone is not as represented. Pretty much impossible to return an overseas purchase unless you go in person.

I will say, the color is lovely. It’s possible a recut could solve the problem. Are there really large fractures? I couldn’t see any. Is the local jeweler one you have a relationship with?

Sometimes this hobby can be frustrating. I have learned a lot from my mistakes. I hope you find a solution that satisfies you.

Thank you for all your thoughts and nice sentiments. I see Pomo has already helped you with distinguishing between her posts and mine. I'm the one looking through the window. I'm not sure I would buy oversees again. I don't think I would send cash again either.

 

[Odyssey44]

That is definitely a window. A small window, maybe, but definitely a window. If the seller doesn't let you return it, I hope you will tell us who it is. I would like to avoid buying anything from them, and I bet I'm not the only one.

Appreciate it Glitterata! I will post what ultimately happens for sure.

 

[Autumn in New England]

Appreciate it Glitterata! I will post what ultimately happens for sure.

Please do! Stand your ground. He should happily offer a refund... an exchange would already involve a return of the stone. So the risk of shipping it back is clearly not the issue. Good luck!!

 

[Odyssey44]

Personally I would consider the photos to be exhibiting tilt windows, even the one the OP and posters are terming the middle window.

A true window wouldn't show half the facet meets (not sure that is the correct terminology) and half tilt window.

I just googled real quick to find an example

https://gemologyproject.com/wiki/index.php?title=Huynh_-_Beginner_Barion_Oval_aka_Quake311







If it was a re-cut, the master cutter was probably constrained by what was there to begin with; still, I don't think the execution is great.

IMHO I don't think the vendor was/is leading you on in his responses to your questions about windows.

It's a beautiful color stone.

I

Personally I would consider the photos to be exhibiting tilt windows, even the one the OP and posters are terming the middle window.

A true window wouldn't show half the facet meets (not sure that is the correct terminology) and half tilt window.

I just googled real quick to find an example

https://gemologyproject.com/wiki/index.php?title=Huynh_-_Beginner_Barion_Oval_aka_Quake311







If it was a re-cut, the master cutter was probably constrained by what was there to begin with; still, I don't think the execution is great.

IMHO I don't think the vendor was/is leading you on in his responses to your questions about windows.

It's a beautiful color stone.

The example stone you linked is lying on its side, so I can definitely see that is a tilt window. I do not really understand the half facets/half tilt window meaning, so I am not sure what to say about it. I guess I can only say that however I hold the stone, attempting to hold it extremely level and parallel to the surface underneath, I see a window. Shouldn't there be some way to hold it level that would NOT produce a window? I can't find it. I agree on the color. It is what first made me look at the stone. It seemed unusual for a spinel. I also agree, in his mind the vendor does not think he misled me. And he has his mind cemented that this is not a window.

OK, I am adding a quick picture of the stone in its case--it is totally smooshed in there, with the top of the case pushing the stone down into the foam. The very middle is a definite window.

 

[Mreader]

Nope! Didn't offer refund or exchanges. Told me to evaluate the stone again in a diamond halo ring at a jeweler. I was so tired of feeling gaslighten lol after the whole exchange. Well, I did get the stone look at by a local jeweler today and was told by the jeweler that setting the stone was a risk as well as using the stone as a ring bc of the large fractures, not to mention this jeweler thought I was charged crazy prices. This was all with a vendor whom several people had great experiences with and sang praises on PS and whom I've previously purchased from. Needless to say, I'm not gonna buy stones without seeing them in person anymore. Still shaken from this experience.

I remember this from the vendor irl picture thread. I thought she did offer exchange!!! Not returns but exchange. Has her policy changed?? And I would have been upset too bc in your photos the color looked TOTALLY different!

 

[Dr_Diesel]

It’s possible a recut could solve the problem.

I would not advise it. I don’t think the stone has sufficient depth.

It would get a whole lot smaller

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

Thanks Autumn. It is the one in the middle that bothers me most because it is always there, however I tilt it. I do like the color and the clarity.
Here is picture of it on my hand--I feel that middle is pretty see through. Lots of fingerprints, sorry!

windows annoy me
did you know during Victorian times -when ladies wore long sleeves and long dresses that it was considered erotic and was very desirable to wear a stone with a window... because he could see the skin through it

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

Well, I sent the vendor the tweezer photos. He said they prove his point because the windows are not the same size and in the same position. That means they are caused by different viewing angles. So he did not misrepresent by saying no windows.

I said there is a window right in the middle that is always there.

He is saying I can exchange the stone. I will say here also that the vendor has always answered me, and I still think they are nice. They think they did not misrepresent the stone. We have a difference of opinion there.

i think he could have explained it better when you first enquired before you brought it

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

And for kicks the underside of the stone.

sometimes i love the undersides more than the top

 

[lovedogs]

Yes there's a window. That's just a fact

 

[Odyssey44]

sometimes i love the undersides more than the top

That's funny! I do like to look at them though.

windows annoy me
did you know during Victorian times -when ladies wore long sleeves and long dresses that it was considered erotic and was very desirable to wear a stone with a window... because he could see the skin through it

I had no idea! Wow. Yet another reason not to like windows--I don't want to show too much skin. Ha!!

i think he could have explained it better when you first enquired before you brought it

I really wish he had.

 

[Odyssey44]

Yes there's a window. That's just a fact

I would have thought so.

 

[Odyssey44]

Boy do I have an update. I sent this to vendor:
So many people have weighed in on PS and they all see a window. There is a window in the middle, without question. They explained the borders don't matter when there is always a window in them middle. [One sentence redacted to keep from revealing vendor]. I do not want to tie up my money until fall. I just want to return this stone for a refund. I do not think you meant to be dishonest, but it was not correct to say this stone has no windows. PS people are saying they would not buy from a vendor who said no windows on this stone and some are asking me to say who the vendor is to avoid them. I don't want to be involved in that--I just want to return for refund and would like you to send me a shipping label. If I knew there was a window, I never would have bought this stone.

And their answer?
"Your trade-in offer is just off the table
Period"

So I take back everything I said about this vendor being nice enough. THEY TOLD ME TO GO TO PS. And they could actually care less what PS had to say. I am beyond fuming now. I am figuring out what to do from here, but I will not let them get away with this scott free. I am just so angry. What a jerk.

 

[Odyssey44]

And he just outed himself as Stephan of Hi Gems. He is now accusing me of taking misleading photos to purposely show windows!!!! As if I would know how!!! AVOID HI GEMS on INSTAGRAM!!! HE WILL NOT ACCURATELY ANSWER THE QUESTION OF WHETHER A STONE HAS A WINDOW OR NOT!! HIS CUSTOMER SERVICE IS TERRIBLE AND HE BLAME YOU WHEN YOU BRING UP A WINDOW IN YOUR STONE!! DO NOT SEND YOUR MONEY TO A SELLER WHO ONLY TAKES CASH TRANSFER!!

 

[Odyssey44]

Here's his slander thread. He did not answer over here but started a new thread. I'm someone that can't even always figure out how to load videos here but he says I am manipulating all my photos to show windows. Why? Because he refuses to admit there is a window. Better to accuse me of something in his mind. I am really upset. It was HIS idea to post on PS.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/higems-a-few-words-on-the-‘window’-thing.288756/

 

[Rfisher]

I’m sorry that escalated for you, OP.

I’m sure someone reading your thread and deciding to contact the vendor to continue talking about a situation that didn’t involve them, didn’t help you and the vendor coming to an agreeable conclusion. Maybe that would have never happened anyways, who knows.

I still think it’s well worth looking into if the window might appear to diminish once set. There’s a certain ring/thread I’m thinking of and I hope the owner will link it.

People have the right to never want any window. That’s fine. Usually you pay more, between two stones with all other things equal besides a window.
The other thread stated this started at 3ct before recut. What carat weight is it now? What is the WxL?
What was the price you paid?
Maybe just sell it on LT to recoup some/most of your costs. If it’s got too much emotion tied to it, move on, if you can’t look past it.

Does the pavilion look centered when looking from the side in all directions? If it’s not - maybe that is contributing to the varying window size when viewed still face up, depending on which way it’s oriented.

If someone that’s knowledgeable about window percentages could opinion on the window percentage on this stone?
Maybe someone else will enjoy it for what it is, and can make a concession for what it isn’t. There’s plenty of small % window colored gemstone owners on this forum, that like their stone just fine. Just as there’s plenty of people who can’t ever look past a small window in anything they own. It’s fine - just learn what ‘you’ like and move on.

Best wishes OP. I hope there’s somethings you can point out as positive that you can take away from this.

 

[lovedogs]

I’m sorry that escalated for you, OP.

I’m sure someone reading your thread and deciding to contact the vendor to continue talking about a situation that didn’t involve them, didn’t help you and the vendor coming to an agreeable conclusion. Maybe that would have never happened anyways, who knows.

I still think it’s well worth looking into if the window might appear to diminish once set. There’s a certain ring/thread I’m thinking of and I hope the owner will link it.

People have the right to never want any window. That’s fine. Usually you pay more, between two stones with all other things equal besides a window.
The other thread stated this started at 3ct before recut. What carat weight is it now? What is the WxL?
What was the price you paid?
Maybe just sell it on LT to recoup some/most of your costs. If it’s got too much emotion tied to it, move on, if you can’t look past it.

Does the pavilion look centered when looking from the side in all directions? If it’s not - maybe that is contributing to the varying window size when viewed still face up, depending on which way it’s oriented.

If someone that’s knowledgeable about window percentages could opinion on the window percentage on this stone?
Maybe someone else will enjoy it for what it is, and can make a concession for what it isn’t. There’s plenty of small % window colored gemstone owners on this forum, that like their stone just fine. Just as there’s plenty of people who can’t ever look past a small window in anything they own. It’s fine - just learn what ‘you’ like and move on.

Best wishes OP. I hope there’s somethings you can point out as positive that you can take away from this.

I agree that the window will likely close once set. It's there but very small so it will likely go away with a setting.

 

[pomo_juice]

I remember this from the vendor irl picture thread. I thought she did offer exchange!!! Not returns but exchange. Has her policy changed?? And I would have been upset too bc in your photos the color looked TOTALLY different!

These were from Tucson and was told that show purchases and sale items are final sale. Idk if that has changed, but during our exchange, the vendor didn't mention anything about exchanges/returns. Lesson learned for me not to purchase anything from shows!
---

(I did try to post a reply on Friday but it says it's still waiting for mod approval. Not sure if there's a word caught in a filter or smth)

I'm really, really sorry about the way this escalated Odyssey.

 

[Odyssey44]

I’m sorry that escalated for you, OP.

I’m sure someone reading your thread and deciding to contact the vendor to continue talking about a situation that didn’t involve them, didn’t help you and the vendor coming to an agreeable conclusion. Maybe that would have never happened anyways, who knows.

I still think it’s well worth looking into if the window might appear to diminish once set. There’s a certain ring/thread I’m thinking of and I hope the owner will link it.

People have the right to never want any window. That’s fine. Usually you pay more, between two stones with all other things equal besides a window.
The other thread stated this started at 3ct before recut. What carat weight is it now? What is the WxL?
What was the price you paid?
Maybe just sell it on LT to recoup some/most of your costs. If it’s got too much emotion tied to it, move on, if you can’t look past it.

Does the pavilion look centered when looking from the side in all directions? If it’s not - maybe that is contributing to the varying window size when viewed still face up, depending on which way it’s oriented.

If someone that’s knowledgeable about window percentages could opinion on the window percentage on this stone?
Maybe someone else will enjoy it for what it is, and can make a concession for what it isn’t. There’s plenty of small % window colored gemstone owners on this forum, that like their stone just fine. Just as there’s plenty of people who can’t ever look past a small window in anything they own. It’s fine - just learn what ‘you’ like and move on.

Best wishes OP. I hope there’s somethings you can point out as positive that you can take away from this.

I just want to thank for your kindness to me here. I could not get to sleep for a long time. I am calmer today. The worst thing, more than the window for me, is that a vendor accused me of manipulating all pictures I took. And insinuated I was trying to pull some kind of fast one. It is just so ugly--and I did business with someone like that. I was so careful not to reveal who he was and to say I think he did not have bad intentions. He did not care what he said about me.

I was surprised someone here contacted the vendor as a kind of spy, yes. But you know, I was being above board. I did not misrepresent anything. I was reporting back to him what was happening because he asked me to. Ultimately I do not have anything to hide. I would not have posted the whole conversation though if he had not posted pieces of it.

I honestly think for the moment I cannot look at the stone. Bad juju. I am just going to keep it tucked away for a bit and then see after reflection and time what I want to do with it. Right now it feels like it can never be mind clean. If it can't, your suggestion to put it up for sale on Loop Troop is a good one. Thanks. I will check if the window can close after setting. I have not even looked at it with foil yet.

The ct. weight is 2.58
Dimensions are 90mm x 7.5 mm x 5.3 mm
I paid $800 + $50 shipping.
I'll get back to you on the pavilion looking centered or not at different angles. For my own sanity I can't look at it again today.

I am not going to be buying on Instagram again any time soon. I will keep working on honing my eye. Boy do I hate windows!

Sending a hug Rfisher. You have helped me today.

 

[Odyssey44]

I agree that the window will likely close once set. It's there but very small so it will likely go away with a setting.

Thanks lovedogs. I will see at some point.

 

[Odyssey44]

These were from Tucson and was told that show purchases and sale items are final sale. Idk if that has changed, but during our exchange, the vendor didn't mention anything about exchanges/returns. Lesson learned for me not to purchase anything from shows!
---

(I did try to post a reply on Friday but it says it's still waiting for mod approval. Not sure if there's a word caught in a filter or smth)

I'm really, really sorry about the way this escalated Odyssey.

Thanks Pomo. I appreciate it. I was really surprised.

 

[Autumn in New England]

I was surprised someone here contacted the vendor as a kind of spy, yes.

That would be terrible, but are you certain it happened? Since he told you to poll PS, he may have just come around to monitor the conversation.

In any event, had I seen what he said about taking back the offer of an exchange out of spite, I would've been much harsher in my response on the other thread. That is just unprofessional, childish, and malicious. He asked you to post here about it! I won't buy from him, but then again I'm not a big fan of IG purchases to begin with for this very reason. I know a lot of PS members have been pleased with him. But the real show of someone's character is when a sale does not go smoothly. His inventory is fabulous. I'm questioning his attitude and store policies.

 

[Avondale]

That would be terrible, but are you certain it happened?

Oh yes, you can see it in the screenshots from the conversation posted in the other thread.

 

[Autumn in New England]

That all being said, I'm so sorry this has been your introduction into CS buying. Please don't let it color (no pun intended) your feelings toward collecting. It has enriched my life in so many ways, not least among them, all of the wonderful relationships I've forged along the way.

I'm still hoping the seller will reflect on the issue and decide to accept a return here. If not, count me amongst those who feel the window will almost certainly be less discernable when set, especially if you use a jeweler who is experienced in that respect.

But if you can't get past any negative feelings associated with the purchase now, it would be best to sell and recoup what you can. Honestly, I wouldn't use LT for this one... PS'ers might not want to get involved after the bad PR. Sell it on ebay or etsy, etc. Post the best glamour shots you can, without resorting to witchcraft to hide the window. And for goodness sake, if someone asks if the gem has a window, tell them it has a small one. lol I think you have a good chance of getting all of your money back.

 

[Autumn in New England]

Oh yes, you can see it in the screenshots from the conversation posted in the other thread.

Oh dear, that is unfortunate. But it is a public forum, so not entirely surprising. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[HockeyMama]

FYI, he posted your IG handle, not sure if it matters. I'm sorry this happened @Odyssey44. I would feel the same about the bad juju. I was following him based on recs here and had even been in touch about a sapphire, but will not be pursuing that. Thank you for sharing your experience. I don't actually know anything about windows, but definitely need to be able to trust my vendors.

 

[Mrsz1ppy]

I just want to thank for your kindness to me here. I could not get to sleep for a long time. I am calmer today. The worst thing, more than the window for me, is that a vendor accused me of manipulating all pictures I took. And insinuated I was trying to pull some kind of fast one. It is just so ugly--and I did business with someone like that. I was so careful not to reveal who he was and to say I think he did not have bad intentions. He did not care what he said about me.

I was surprised someone here contacted the vendor as a kind of spy, yes. But you know, I was being above board. I did not misrepresent anything. I was reporting back to him what was happening because he asked me to. Ultimately I do not have anything to hide. I would not have posted the whole conversation though if he had not posted pieces of it.

I honestly think for the moment I cannot look at the stone. Bad juju. I am just going to keep it tucked away for a bit and then see after reflection and time what I want to do with it. Right now it feels like it can never be mind clean. If it can't, your suggestion to put it up for sale on Loop Troop is a good one. Thanks. I will check if the window can close after setting. I have not even looked at it with foil yet.

The ct. weight is 2.58
Dimensions are 90mm x 7.5 mm x 5.3 mm
I paid $800 + $50 shipping.
I'll get back to you on the pavilion looking centered or not at different angles. For my own sanity I can't look at it again today.

I am not going to be buying on Instagram again any time soon. I will keep working on honing my eye. Boy do I hate windows!

Sending a hug Rfisher. You have helped me today.

@Rfisher is the best!