Asscher cut evaluation

[Dreamer_D]

I wasn’t suggesting a B&M vendor. I was suggesting an online retailer with multiple stones in house to compare in one video. Rather than a drop shipper. Just FYI.

 

[Dreamer_D]

That WF stone is phenomenal. Looks like an antique style cut!

 

[lovedogs]

I really like the WF one! Still can't see the video on the adiamor one unfortunately

 

[tyty333]

I also like the WF one. The shape and the windmills are lovely! WF can do aset images.

 

[briggysmalls]

I wasn’t suggesting a B&M vendor. I was suggesting an online retailer with multiple stones in house to compare in one video. Rather than a drop shipper. Just FYI.

Ah I see. Apologies for the mistake. Interesting I’ll take a look to see if I can find any. So far it seems a lot of Asschers are drop-shipped on sites. WhiteFlash also seem to only have 1 Asscher in-house with the rest with suppliers.

 

[briggysmalls]

I really like the WF one! Still can't see the video on the adiamor one unfortunately

Oh that’s annoying. The site does seem a bit rubbish. Here, does this link work for you? It was sent to me by Adiamor

http://dasny.dyndns.org:81/Vision360/38125.html

 

[lovedogs]

Oh that’s annoying. The site does seem a bit rubbish. Here, does this link work for you? It was sent to me by Adiamor

http://dasny.dyndns.org:81/Vision360/38125.html

Yup, it works! I like that one too!

 

[lovedogs]

I personally like the WF better because of the small table and shape, but both look nice!

 

[Dreamer_D]

I personally like the WF better because of the small table and shape, but both look nice!

Agreed.

 

[Ibrakeforpossums]

I like both, too but I wonder if the WF diamond is going to be more lively.

 

[dvj]

I like the smaller contender best!

 

[briggysmalls]

Blimey. That's put a spanner in the works (but also really really helpful gang! Thank you)

I'm in a right bind because I've spoken with my partner, who I know feels "bigger is better" (in terms of face-up size). But since getting involved in this forum I feel the pull of the "cut nut" way of thinking , so like you folks really love that octagonal shape, smaller table, etc

I think if I'm honest with myself, getting the smaller WF one would be more for me than for her. So I think despite all your fantastic support and expertise... I might opt for the larger one. It's got ~30% larger face-up size which I think ultimately matters more for my partner.

...Oh but I want to have my cake and eat it... Maybe I'll keep an eye out for any more that come up.

 

[briggysmalls]

For posterity, in case it's useful in the future after the product links break. I thought I'd upload some images of the two diamonds being considered.

Larger

Price: ~$37k
Caret: 3.03ct
Colour: I
Clarity: VVS2
Table: 61%

Summary of feedback so far:

Generally considered good cut. High enough crown (Karl estimated 15%+). Primary concern is whether there is too much contrast/darkness under the table. This should be verified with an ASET ideally.



Smaller

Price: ~$29k
Carat: 2.05
Colour: E
Clarity: VS1
Table: 58%

Summary:

Favoured better! Particularly appealing is the very low table. Also distinctive is the more octagonal shape vs. a "square with clipped corners" look, which I believe is more coveted. I also believe the contrast in this diamond is more desirable because it "frames" the table, without making the centre dark.




All in all, I love them

 

[briggysmalls]

I like both, too but I wonder if the WF diamond is going to be more lively.

Thanks so much for the help @Ibrakeforpossums. Throughout this thread. Very much appreciated! I'd be lost without you all!

I guess one question I'd have is: I believe a more "lively" diamond (I think this means more fire? perhaps more scintillation?) can appear larger than a larger diamond with a poorer cut. Hence the obsession over getting a great cut!

In my circumstance here, I feel perceived size is very important to my partner. I will probably proceed with the larger stone. But do you think, if you tried to imagine perceived size being your priority, you would still opt for the smaller option here? Do you think that better cut might actually compensate visually enough to make it appear 30% bigger?

Sorry, a really difficult question I know. And I promise I'll take it only as advice, and not hold you accountable if I act upon it!!!!

 

[Ibrakeforpossums]

Lively - to me - means more flashes, constant changes of light with the smallest movement. Fewer static moments. Six years ago, when I got my first Asscher, I would have chosen the larger diamond. Now the smaller and better cut, no question. A 2 ct. diamond is still a good-sized rock.

 

[lovedogs]

2ct is quite a large stone, so I personally I'd still go w the smaller one. But at the end of the day, this is for your partner. Not us, not you. So she has to love it

 

[tyty333]

If WF has that asscher in-house, ask them to do an in-house video for you.

 

[Dreamer_D]

In a situation like this I tend to err in favour of getting the wearer of the diamond what they want! I didn't realize they were 1ct different in size. That is a lot lol And nothing wrong with wanting a larger diamond. Round these parts there are many self-professed "size wh*res".

There is another factor you have not talked about much and that I only noticed now that you created that helpful comparison -- the larger stone is an I color and the smaller and E color. In a step cut and I color stone will likely have a noticable tint. Now, that doesn't bother me much. But many people prefer and icy white diamond. I suspect that if you had the smaller, better cut E next to the larger, more tinted I, even your size-loving gf might see that the smaller stone is better quality.

I wonder... could you involve her in this choice? Show her both stones and explain the plusses and minuses and let her choose?

 

[lovedogs]

In a situation like this I tend to err in favour of getting the wearer of the diamond what they want! I didn't realize they were 1ct different in size. That is a lot lol And nothing wrong with wanting a larger diamond. Round these parts there are many self-professed "size wh*res".

There is another factor you have not talked about much and that I only noticed now that you created that helpful comparison -- the larger stone is an I color and the smaller and E color. In a step cut and I color stone will likely have a noticable tint. Now, that doesn't bother me much. But many people prefer and icy white diamond. I suspect that if you had the smaller, better cut E next to the larger, more tinted I, even your size-loving gf might see that the smaller stone is better quality.

I wonder... could you involve her in this choice? Show her both stones and explain the plusses and minuses and let her choose?

I agree, involving her is a great idea if she'd be OK with it

 

[briggysmalls]

If WF has that asscher in-house, ask them to do an in-house video for you.

Ah if only. Right now, for my requirements, of all the vendors searched by the PriceScope search, there are 0 in-house Asschers!

e.g. https://www.pricescope.com/diamonds...inclarity=2&maxclarity=6&adv=true&maxtable=65

 

[briggysmalls]

So I have made the assumption

In a situation like this I tend to err in favour of getting the wearer of the diamond what they want! I didn't realize they were 1ct different in size. That is a lot lol And nothing wrong with wanting a larger diamond. Round these parts there are many self-professed "size wh*res".

There is another factor you have not talked about much and that I only noticed now that you created that helpful comparison -- the larger stone is an I color and the smaller and E color. In a step cut and I color stone will likely have a noticable tint. Now, that doesn't bother me much. But many people prefer and icy white diamond. I suspect that if you had the smaller, better cut E next to the larger, more tinted I, even your size-loving gf might see that the smaller stone is better quality.

I wonder... could you involve her in this choice? Show her both stones and explain the plusses and minuses and let her choose?

This is all good stuff.

Size

To some extent I have involved her. I actually just bought a cheap 3ct Cubic Zirconia (CZ) asscher cut which should have very similar dimensions to the larger option here. And to my horror she felt it was if anything "too small" . But that stone didn't really have any brilliance so I'm hoping it made it look smaller.

We did try on a 3ct Asscher ring in a shop a while back, and she loved it at the time, but has since concluded it might be a bit large for her finger. AFAIK this was only marginally larger than the CZ mentioned above. Which has left me perplexed...

I told her I'd found two options, one larger with likely a worse cut, and one smaller with a better cut, she didn't really know what to make of it. After trying on the CZ I could tell she didn't want anything smaller, but didn't know how to balance that with the effect of a good cut.

Colour

Regarding colour. I sort-of assumed in order to get such a large size stone on my budget, that I'd need to compromise on something. I opted for colour. I've not directly asked her about this. But when we looked around jewellers at rings she actually picked out a few pale fancy yellow diamonds that she liked, so I sort-of took that as an implicit signal she wasn't sensitive to colour. On the same day we tried on the ring mentioned above, we looked at this delicious Asscher at Hancocks in London which is of colour H and she loved it. Oh, indeed we also tried on this Asscher of colour J which she said nothing of the colour.

 

[Dreamer_D]

OKay you have some really good intel here. I think you need to absolutely focus on size over most other factors. And perhaps an element of "wow" factor too?

Another thing you and your GF may not know is that Asschers face up smaller than most other cuts for the same carat weight! Some of that is accounted for in the per carat price, but if your GF really truly wants the biggest spread she can get, then she might prefer a different cut style. Like a round brilliant or even an oval or pear.

Another thing to consider is that step cuts have the most subtle light play of any diamond cut. They are for gazing into deeply and getting lost in the stone. If your GF wants a diamond that will be seen across the room, again, a different cut will be much better for this.

 

[briggysmalls]

OKay you have some really good intel here. I think you need to absolutely focus on size over most other factors. And perhaps an element of "wow" factor too?

Another thing you and your GF may not know is that Asschers face up smaller than most other cuts for the same carat weight! Some of that is accounted for in the per carat price, but if your GF really truly wants the biggest spread she can get, then she might prefer a different cut style. Like a round brilliant or even an oval or pear.

Another thing to consider is that step cuts have the most subtle light play of any diamond cut. They are for gazing into deeply and getting lost in the stone. If your GF wants a diamond that will be seen across the room, again, a different cut will be much better for this.

Thanks @dreamer_dachsie! It's definitely valid to point these things out. But I'm feeling quite confident on these aspects. Because we've talked about them quite a lot.

I'm pretty confident that she's not looking for more scintillation. She's always said she dislikes round/brilliant cut diamonds. Partly the shape, but also disliking lots of scintillation. Also an element of "its what everyone else has, and I'd like to have something different". After a day of looking at more common cuts, like round and oval, when she saw Asscher cuts she seemed to fall in love.

That being said we only saw huge carat Asschers. She seems to prefer the idea of a stone commanding attention through its size rather than a dazzling one. But that's unfortunately tough on my wallet

Btw: really appreciate you taking the time to check the basics. The personal preferences side of things I suppose is the most critical!

 

[briggysmalls]

I just found another option on WhiteFlash that's a smidgeon larger, but might keep some of the appealing aspects of the smaller option...

But I'm guessing the low crown height makes it worse than my current top contender?

3.19ct (on WF)

Carat: 3.19ct
Colour: I
Clarity: IF
Table: 63
Dimensions: 8.64x8.48x5.53

Pros:
- Largest face-up size (by a fraction of a mm in width/length)
- Larger windmills & clipped corners than the 3.03ct option
- Windmills have a nice light pattern

Cons:
- Crown height looks low
- Largest table size considered
- Pretty large dark region under the table

View attachment 956585

 

[lovedogs]

I just found another option on WhiteFlash that's a smidgeon larger, but might keep some of the appealing aspects of the smaller option...

But I'm guessing the low crown height makes it worse than my current top contender?

3.19ct (on WF)

Carat: 3.19ct
Colour: I
Clarity: IF
Table: 63
Dimensions: 8.64x8.48x5.53

Pros:
- Largest face-up size (by a fraction of a mm in width/length)
- Larger windmills & clipped corners than the 3.03ct option
- Windmills have a nice light pattern

Cons:
- Crown height looks low
- Largest table size considered
- Pretty large dark region under the table

View attachment 956585

Not a fan of this one. The table is huge so it looks flat from the side, and face up its super dark because all of the facets turn "off" at once.

 

[Ibrakeforpossums]

Will she notice the cons you describe? Or will she just see a very large attractive Asscher? I probably like this better than lovedogs, who knows more than i do. But it's still a very big and appealing diamond. Some people don't mind a lot of contrast. You have two nice 3 ct. stones, choose the one she'd like best.

 

[briggysmalls]

Thanks everyone for the help ! I've received so much time and patience here. I couldn't have got to this point without the assistance, and I feel much more confident in my decision-making now.

I've ordered the original diamond! My "larger" option. This is based on the fact it got fairly decent reviews here, but it also has one of the largest a face-up sizes I've seen so far, which is what my gf likes!

That should be shipped tomorrow and arrive some time next week. I'll try to evaluate it using a home-made ASET scope with the designs shared on this forum: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/diy-aset-and-ideal-scope.226126/. I'll share my findings on this thread!

I'm... somewhat recklessly considering ordering another diamond. To be able to compare the two at home, then returning one. Terrifying to see all my life savings disappear, but it would only be for 30 days or so . The advantage ordering from WhiteFlash is that they can take an ASET for me, and I have the choice of refunding at that point, before it's even shipped to me, which would save customs faff and minimise time spent out of pocket.

I found one further diamond*. If anyone has any patience left, I'd be really pleased to get your take. Thank you so much for everything. What will I do with my time once I no longer stare at diamonds

* side-point: I found ~5 more Asschers on Whiteflash by filtering to Emerald cut not Asscher and looking for square L/W ratios. Might be useful for someone in future.

[NEW] Best compromise?

Carat: 2.63ct
Colour: F
Clarity: VVS1
Table: 61%
Dimensions: 7.69x7.69x5.24 mm

I'm wondering if this might actually be my best second option? Due to the OK table size, nicer shape, and massive crown height. Although you folks may think it's too lifeless in the centre?

Pros:

• Best compromise? OK table size, but still fairly large face-up
• Absolutely huge crown height!?

Cons:

• Possibly quite lifeless/leaky in the centre
• Not as small a table as the nice WF option already discussed

Previously seen:

• 3.19ct I IF 63%:
  • This is the one I sent in my most recent message.
  • largest (but only fractionally larger than the one I've ordered)
  • biggest table
  • dark under table
• 2.05ct D VS2 58%:
  • The "smaller contender" I shared in the original comparison
  • smallest.
  • smallest (best) table
  • Well-received here!

 

[tyty333]

You can use diamdb.com to see the relative sizes of the stones on her finger.

edit...the 3.19...love the shape and windmills but worry about too much darkness under the table.

 

[briggysmalls]

I've now received the first diamond! EEEeek! I'm well excited, and a bit nervy.

I've taken some shaky videos, please excuse the camerawork. Here's a video in natural light

https://briggysmalls.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F739116089284476928

And here's a video in more flattering spot-lighting:

https://briggysmalls.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F739118148670898176

Here's a video using my DIY ASET (I've ordered a real one, but it's going to take a while to arrive from Australia).

https://briggysmalls.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F739116209329537024

And a couple of stills of the ASET:





As expected there's a lot of contrast in the face-up position. There's a lot more red/light return when tilted slightly in any direction. I'm unsure what to make of the faintly pink / quite white regions in the face-up... are they good light return? leakage? Or a bit of both? Or perhaps it's just a consequence of my DIY scope...

My perceptions: when I hold it statically, in the face-up position I'm not that excited by it. The darkness (and leakage?) makes it difficult to make out the separate facets. This is much less pronounced in spotlighting however. But as soon as I tilt by ~15% in any direction and it catches the light I see those concentric squares and arrow patterns light up really nicely.

Side point: I was obsessing about getting the lowest table % possible, but this one at 61% seems totally pleasing to me. So that's a learning!

Alternative

Having purchased the other 3.19ct option (nicer shape, but suspected to be even darker) I've since been supplied with an ASET by WhiteFlash (see below). I've now got to decide whether to abort that purchase based on the ASET, or proceed, compare the diamonds side-by-side, and return one of them myself...



It's striking to me the large areas of leakage under the table, around the centre. The leakage combined with the contrast make up a large, adjacent area under the table which I presume will seem poorly defined. But perhaps the bright windmills and centre might make this one seem brighter in the face-up than the one I have currently

All in all I'd love to hear advice. My current plan, despite the big faff of returns, and claiming my VAT back from HMRC, to proceed with the delivery of the second stone to compare both side-by-side myself.

I know at this point personal preference will play a large part. You folks have been v. patient, and helped me understand what makes a good cut. And I've now consciously compromised on cut to maximise face-up size. But any pointers, if you had to choose between these two options, would be most welcome!

 

[Ibrakeforpossums]

Is this #1 of the 4 you listed?