banning

[ksinger]

crasru said: "With opiates... there are two very distinct groups. Some (like myself) hate them because they make them sleepy and devoid of any energy, some fell surge of energy."

Interesting response (all of it). Thanks for posting it.

On the opiods I must be some happy sub-group of the sleepy group. Percocets make me somewhat sleepy while killing pain, but Lortabs, simply kill the pain while leaving me totally functional. Neither gives any perceptibly pleasant effect that I would want or need to get more of.

And I swear I did NOT go looking for this - it was right on the front page of the NYTimes today. Ain't life weird?

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/14/science/14volkow.html?_r=1&src=dayp

 

[risingsun]

Thank you, once again, Karen, for locating and linking to this source material. The research into how the brain changes--and not only under the infuence--is beginning to change the way counselors approach therapy. I recently did some course work on how disrupted attachment changes brain structure. It is vital to be aware and informed of the research being done today. We owe it to our clients and to the field. The addictions field has made many positive changes in a relatively short amount of time. Seeing the new work being done is very exciting and gives me hope for greater efficacy of treatment.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

Let's not forget history. There was a time, for example, when cocaine WAS legal. Heck, they even would give it to babies for teething. It seems to me that they produce a drug to help people get off another drug, only to get people addicted to the new drug. I AM supportive of harm reduction therapy. It can be a viable option for many addicts. But it needs to be in a safe environment with educated and ethical providers.

I believe with every ounce of my soul it is not IF an addict will become addicted it is WHEN. It is a biological, cognitive, physical, emotional, spiritual DISEASE. It's not about the thrill, lack of willpower, rebellion once that addiction is triggered. Legalizing drugs will not help addicts it will only promote MORE risky use. More rehabs, counselors, prevention, psycho-education, THAT would be helpful. For every $1 spent on rehab efforts, $7 is saved.

 

[HollyS]

What I wonder, is why it is in society's best interest to have a bunch of mind-altered, whacked-out, potentially violent and non-producing people lolling around strung out on drugs. I guess the rights of the individual really do trump any outmoded concept such as what might be better for the overall society.

Bingo.
Ditto.



Drugs and alcohol, used in quantities that impair and will subject others to danger, ARE NOT OKAY. And that's the issue.

Illegal drugs are illegal for a reason -- and addiction is usually the reason. Surely we don't have to discuss the horrors of addiction.

Mr. Doctor with the drugs knew better. But he did it anyway. His life, his career, his call, his problem.

 

[packrat]

I think it's funny that we (not We as in US here, just we the people in general) freak out and start screeching and gnashing our teeth about cigarettes to the point people try to make it illegal for someone to smoke a cigarette in their own home b/c of the smoke that would be on their clothes and out in society the second they walk out the door but yet..let's legalize heroin? I don't know that I've ever once in my entire life heard of someone who got so whacked out crazy mad from smoking a cigarette that they thought they could fly and jumped off a building, or tried to kill someone, or did atrocious things to kids whilst under the influence of Marlboros. And I'd much rather the surgeon who took my tonsils out smoked a cigarette before coming to work that day than injected heroin. There are a LOT of people who can function normally on drugs, I get that. But there are a WHOLE HECK OF A LOT MORE who CANNOT. I'd hate to think of the people who DON'T try more hard core drugs b/c of the prices think well shit, it's only $4 now, heck I want to try it and see what the big deal is..cuz you KNOW people would. They would, end of story. Not everyone obviously, but a LOT would try and it then what? How many more people in rehab can my tax dollars support? And just a thought, if you have no money and you have a drug habit, it doesn't matter if it costs $4 or $400-you don't have the money so how will you get it? You will go bat shit crazy until you get it, lie cheat steal, mug, kill whatever-for $4.

Oh and I think cigarettes are terrible, as a former smoker myself. And isn't the govt the one that regulates the cig prices etc? Taxes and whatever? And they keep going up..so..yeah, let's not ban it, let's just let them keep smoking b/c then we can keep raising the prices of it to pay for legal settlements for people with cancer.

Things are illegal for a reason..to protect people and b/c we're supposed to "know better" now than we did back in the day.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Oh and I think cigarettes are terrible, as a former smoker myself. And isn't the govt the one that regulates the cig prices etc? Taxes and whatever? And they keep going up..so..yeah, let's not ban it, let's just let them keep smoking b/c then we can keep raising the prices of it to pay for legal settlements for people with cancer.

Things are illegal for a reason..to protect people and b/c we're supposed to "know better" now than we did back in the day.

of course not,cuz if they do...here comes the cigarette smugglers into our country.even now,smugglers are smuggling cigarettes across stateline into N.Y. b/c of the $5 a pack taxes in N.Y.,just imagine what would happen if cigarettes becomes ILLEGAL in the U.S.

 

[Arkteia]

I think I got my answer. Or at least some answer and it may be interesting for other people to hear it.

I spoke to an acquaintance of mine. She is exceptionally smart and talented and has been through a lot in her life. She is so open she does not mind me using her name, but of course I am not going to do it but she knows I am posting it at my forum. She is an alcoholic, functional and trying to make the best out of her life. She goes to a support group and people in her group are not a mixed lot, they, too, are very high-functioning. I asked her this question and asked her to conduct a mini-poll in her group.

Most of them said no, these drugs should not be legalized. Some said, yes. Everyone said that was not the main issue in the war against drugs. The main issue (and that's where money and efforts should go) would be to research and find out what mood disorders and other emotional issues drove people to become addicts. Do research, clinical trials, early prevention and treatment. It was all about exploring not even why people became addicts, but what specific emotional problems each and everyone had. And that is where the money should go. How science could raise money would be another thing, and they had no answers, so everyone could have his own answers, but we as psychiatrists, when we see an addict, should not merely prescribe Suboxone or Naltrexone or whatever exists for addiction - we should actively screen for mood disorders and other emotional problems. That is what a reasonably large group of very smart addicts thought.

 

[galeteia]

In any case, I've always been more interested in why so many people apparently feel the need to alter their brain chemistry. What is out of whack that pushes them to look for SOMETHING to FIX it?

Because people try to self-medicate. They are in pain, emotional or physical, and for a host of reasons, they seek to medicate themselves for it. It's a coping mechanism because they cannot function in day-to-day life without it. It's not that they got hooked and THEN needed it to function, they did it in the first place because they needed assistance to function in their daily lives.

SO does it and it's the only thing we fight about. My parents divorced because of it. My dad was perpetually drunk for 30 years, probably still is. (We haven't spoken since my early teens when I cut him out of my life.) It's put SO in the hospital, it's caused me to get pissed off at him if he even drinks a beer, because it reminds me of the times I have come home and found him on the floor or couch passed out.

I've done it too. Last year, I drank every day to cope with my job/living where we live. I am now on anti-anxiety and depression meds, but they can only do so much. They're not a magic bullet; as long as the stressors are still there, you're still going to be miserable.

So why do people self-medicate instead of seeking help, that's the question I think is more relevant than "why do people drink/do drugs?" In our case, he's a part of the (very small, insular) counselling community and you don't shit where you eat. For some people it's stigma, others finances, I imagine lots of people have relationship issues but divorcing your mother or your child isn't as easy as divorcing a spouse, etc.

Another question: why are people so damn miserable? Every day I see people working a horrible job so they can buy crap they don't need, so they can ameliorate their misery over working a horrible job. WTH?

 

[risingsun]

Crasu~ as you know, alcoholism and other drugs of abuse are considered primary disorders. Many, if not most, people with this diagnosis are dually diagnosed with a mood disorder and/or anxiety disorder. There are patients who have a psychiatric disorder and use to self medicate. There are as many addicts who develop psychiatric disorders as a result of their substance dependency. There are no easy answers. Often, medications are used in the treatment of substance abuse. In the end, we are treating dually diagnosed patients and need protocols, which address both primary disorders.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

Crasu~ as you know, alcoholism and other drugs of abuse are considered primary disorders. Many, if not most, people with this diagnosis are dually diagnosed with a mood disorder and/or anxiety disorder. There are patients who have a psychiatric disorder and use to self medicate. There are as many addicts who develop psychiatric disorders as a result of their substance dependency. There are no easy answers. Often, medications are used in the treatment of substance abuse. In the end, we are treating dually diagnosed patients and need protocols, which address both primary disorders.

As you know and stated that is the real problem. Some therapists won't touch addicts until they have been sober for x months. Some addicts cannot get sober without psychiatric care. Dual diagnosis clients are tough to treat. Resources and treatment needs to be linked together. Have you read "Hooked"? It is a great example of what happens when there are lack of resources and when resources do not work together and how often professionals drop the ball with their clients.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

So what do you pros recommend that a parent do with a grown child who has not yet found the right combination of help for an anxiety disorder and probably bipolar who abuses substances (on occasion) to self-medicate? Do you throw them out to let them completely self-destruct or do you continue trying to find different help? I do no want to be an enabler, but it is hard to kick out a grown kid who is SICK when they have absolutely nowhere to go but a homeless shelter????

 

[risingsun]

Crasu~ as you know, alcoholism and other drugs of abuse are considered primary disorders. Many, if not most, people with this diagnosis are dually diagnosed with a mood disorder and/or anxiety disorder. There are patients who have a psychiatric disorder and use to self medicate. There are as many addicts who develop psychiatric disorders as a result of their substance dependency. There are no easy answers. Often, medications are used in the treatment of substance abuse. In the end, we are treating dually diagnosed patients and need protocols, which address both primary disorders.

As you know and stated that is the real problem. Some therapists won't touch addicts until they have been sober for x months. Some addicts cannot get sober without psychiatric care. Dual diagnosis clients are tough to treat. Resources and treatment needs to be linked together. Have you read "Hooked"? It is a great example of what happens when there are lack of resources and when resources do not work together and how often professionals drop the ball with their clients.

We need to teach about dual diagnosis in our graduate programs. I gained my knowledge by becoming certified and then licensed as an addictions counselor. CACREP, I believe, has added a requirement for education in addictions. I'm not sure what it contains. I have experienced the same as you regarding mental health counselors not wanting to become involved in SA treatment. In my former practice, we worked together, MH and SA, to be sure the clients needs were served. Being a hospital based program, we had the staffing and cooperation to do so. It's still not easy to get around that "us and them" mentality. Thanks for the book recommendation.

 

[risingsun]

So what do you pros recommend that a parent do with a grown child who has not yet found the right combination of help for an anxiety disorder and probably bipolar who abuses substances (on occasion) to self-medicate? Do you throw them out to let them completely self-destruct or do you continue trying to find different help? I do no want to be an enabler, but it is hard to kick out a grown kid who is SICK when they have absolutely nowhere to go but a homeless shelter????

This is a very difficult situation, DS. It is true that your grown kid is sick, but he/she also can make the choice to enter treatment. I know of families who have lived this way for years. My advice is not popular, but it is to let them go and experience the consequences of their behavior--the behavior being their refusal to seek help. I would also suggest that you attend Al-anon or Nar-anon and get support during this time. You are not alone. I'm sorry to hear that you are living with addiction.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Thanks! Sadly, he has agreed to treatment and we have tried many times. Just not the right combination, apparently.

 

[risingsun]

Thanks! Sadly, he has agreed to treatment and we have tried many times. Just not the right combination, apparently.

DS~ I don't want to talk to you like a counselor because we are friends. All I can say that if he leaves treatment and continues to use, he doesn't appear to face consequences. What will motivate him to change, if things stay the same. There is also a group called Families Anonymous, which can be very helpful in these situations. My heart goes out to you.

 

[yssie]

I have little to add to this thread, but

Trekkie - I remember your story, and I have to say again that you have so much to be proud of yourself for!

DS - I'm sorry. I can only imagine how difficult this situation is for all of you - I hope that right combination makes itself apparent soon.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Thanks! Sadly, he has agreed to treatment and we have tried many times. Just not the right combination, apparently.

DS~ I don't want to talk to you like a counselor because we are friends. All I can say that if he leaves treatment and continues to use, he doesn't appear to face consequences. What will motivate him to change, if things stay the same. There is also a group called Families Anonymous, which can be very helpful in these situations. My heart goes out to you.

Thanks, RS! I feel like he didn't get the medication he needed, so without the support coming from all sides, he can't seem to make it. He has made it for months but falls eventually. He just started on new meds in the last few days, so we'll see if that helps. We definitely need some counseling help in how to manage this.

Thanks, too, Yssie!

 

[risingsun]

Thanks! Sadly, he has agreed to treatment and we have tried many times. Just not the right combination, apparently.

DS~ I don't want to talk to you like a counselor because we are friends. All I can say that if he leaves treatment and continues to use, he doesn't appear to face consequences. What will motivate him to change, if things stay the same. There is also a group called Families Anonymous, which can be very helpful in these situations. My heart goes out to you.

Thanks, RS! I feel like he didn't get the medication he needed, so without the support coming from all sides, he can't seem to make it. He has made it for months but falls eventually. He just started on new meds in the last few days, so we'll see if that helps. We definitely need some counseling help in how to manage this.

Thanks, too, Yssie!

I think that counseling for you or you and your family could be very helpful. I don't think that this counseling should include your son at this time. I believe the rest of the family should be the focus here. Be careful choosing a therapist. There are those counselors, who are trained in family systems therapy, which looks at the cause of addictions in the family dynamics. The family, of course, becomes involved in the addiction cycle, but I don't think it is particularly helpful to view it as a causitive factor. Look for someone with a background in addictions for assistance. 12 Step programs can be an excellent support system to those in counseling--as well as those who are not.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

DS, I am so sorry. You know you can e-mail me anytime. I agree with RS, unfortunately no one can make anyone do anything they don't want to do. One of my professors always say, "we didn't break them, we can't fix them." That is not to say it is easy for the family to accept. I am a huge supporter of Al-Anon. It is a wonderful support program for family and friends of addicts. Research shows that when the family helps, the substance abuser has a better chance of recovery. Most addicts have some form of mental illness. They have Dual Diagnosis AA meetings.

RS, I never thought I would be into family/systems-based therapy but my professor is so we watching a John Edward's training video. I really like his ideas. Family sculpting looks really powerful.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

DS, I am so sorry. You know you can e-mail me anytime. I agree with RS, unfortunately no one can make anyone do anything they don't want to do. One of my professors always say, "we didn't break them, we can't fix them." That is not to say it is easy for the family to accept. I am a huge supporter of Al-Anon. It is a wonderful support program for family and friends of addicts. Research shows that when the family helps, the substance abuser has a better chance of recovery. Most addicts have some form of mental illness. They have Dual Diagnosis AA meetings.

RS, I never thought I would be into family/systems-based therapy but my professor is so we watching a John Edward's training video. I really like his ideas. Family sculpting looks really powerful.

Tacori, I have seriously thought about emailing you for days. I feel like we need educated professional advice as opposed to a support group. I honestly can't think of anything more depressing than sitting around having to listen to multiple people tell all their problems with addicted, mentally ill loved ones. I just need to know what to do. I'll just email you a couple of questions.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

DS, support groups are not like that. At lease not healthy ones. You will learn how other people cope with the disease and how to use valuable tools such as boundaries, detachment with love, and forgiveness. For $1, it is a great resource b/c everyone there understands exactly how you feel. It is a safe, compassionate, environment. Probably not what you get when you confide in people who have never been touched by the disease. I think the most powerful thing about group work (essentially support meetings are a form of group therapy) is the EXPERIENCE, STRENGTH, and HOPE you will hear. There is power in numbers. Sometimes you need to hear the same words out of a different mouth to understand. Obviously I encourage individual therapy as well, but I believe they serve two different purposes. I have seen amazing progress with parents in those rooms. Good luck J.

 

[Trekkie]

DS, support groups are not like that. At lease not healthy ones. You will learn how other people cope with the disease and how to use valuable tools such as boundaries, detachment with love, and forgiveness. For $1, it is a great resource b/c everyone there understands exactly how you feel. It is a safe, compassionate, environment. Probably not what you get when you confide in people who have never been touched by the disease. I think the most powerful thing about group work (essentially support meetings are a form of group therapy) is the EXPERIENCE, STRENGTH, and HOPE you will hear. There is power in numbers. Sometimes you need to hear the same words out of a different mouth to understand. Obviously I encourage individual therapy as well, but I believe they serve two different purposes. I have seen amazing progress with parents in those rooms. Good luck J.

A big fat ditto to Tacori.

DiamondSeeker2006, I won't presume to give you advice, I don't know you and you don't know me. I will try to tell you a little bit of my story in the hope that it will help you in some way.

I tried to stop using more than a year before I finally did. In fact, I moved across the country so that I could be away from people I used with. I thought I just needed to be away from temptation. It actually worked quite well, I was clean for more than a year. But "clean" isn't "in recovery". By going to my group (in my case Narcotics Anonymous) I learnt that staying off drugs meant nothing if there was no change. I was given a very simple equation: Recovery = Abstinence + Change.

And believe me, it's true.

I haven't been clean for terribly long. There's a member of PS who's been sober for nearly as long as I have been alive and you know what? That gives me hope. It proves to me that there is life after using drugs.

Re: Mood disorders / mental illness and addiction. My mother was schizophrenic and self-medicated with alcohol. Indirectly it lead to her death two months ago. I have my own issues with anxiety and depression. I have stood on both sides of that abyss: watching my mother destroy her life because she couldn't control the demons inside and hurting myself because, bizarre as it sounds, it made me feel better. Believe me, DiamondSeeker2006, I know it isn't easy. Many years ago when seeking answers about my mother's illness I was told you didn't cause it, you can't cure it, you can't control it. Please try to remember that.

PS, Thank you, Yssie.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Thanks Tacori and Trekkie!

Trekkie, I am happy to hear of your progress and hope you will totally break that cycle that has caused such pain in your family. Let me say that I am 100% for support groups for my son. His issue with them (and he has tried) is that he has such social anxiety that he dreads them. But we have moved to a new area and I think that he might be willing to try with a new group of people. {{{{hugs}}}}

 

[risingsun]

DS, I am so sorry. You know you can e-mail me anytime. I agree with RS, unfortunately no one can make anyone do anything they don't want to do. One of my professors always say, "we didn't break them, we can't fix them." That is not to say it is easy for the family to accept. I am a huge supporter of Al-Anon. It is a wonderful support program for family and friends of addicts. Research shows that when the family helps, the substance abuser has a better chance of recovery. Most addicts have some form of mental illness. They have Dual Diagnosis AA meetings.

RS, I never thought I would be into family/systems-based therapy but my professor is so we watching a John Edward's training video. I really like his ideas. Family sculpting looks really powerful.

To Tacori: There are some forms of family therapy that work quite well in addicted family systems. My objection is to those theories that believe that all problems are caused by family dynamics. As along as addiction remains a primary diagnosis, we need to treatment the illness as well as the family dynamics.


To DS: having social anxiety makes treatment more difficult, since much of it is done in groups. If he attends an open meeting, he does not have to talk. He can say that he passes, if someone asks. In a closed meeting, he would be asked to identify himself as an addict or alcoholic. If it were possible for him to say that he has social anxiety and would prefer to listen, he may begin to gain the support he needs. Is he taking a non-addictive medication to lower his anxiety. Most of the SSRI type meds are used for both depression and anxiety. Some are more effective than others.

I have been in the field for many years. If there is anything that I can do, please let me know.

 

[AGBF]

So what do you pros recommend that a parent do with a grown child who has not yet found the right combination of help for an anxiety disorder and probably bipolar who abuses substances (on occasion) to self-medicate? Do you throw them out to let them completely self-destruct or do you continue trying to find different help? I do no want to be an enabler, but it is hard to kick out a grown kid who is SICK when they have absolutely nowhere to go but a homeless shelter????

diamondseeker-

I had not been following this thread. I want to say that at some point I want to talk to you on the phone. My daughter and your son seem to have a lot in common, with the exception that my daughter doesn't use alcohol or drugs. She has tried them a few times, but (thank God), she doesn't like them. She does not, however, get relief from medication from her psychological problems. Now that she is 18 my husband is refusing to pay her expenses and has initiated divorce proceedings against me, saying I should put her in the street, which I will not do. Whether there is an end in sight, though, I do not know!

Deb

 

[isaku5]

Deb, you are really being put beween a rock and a hard place - a lose, lose situation for which there doesn't seem to be any solution. My heart goes out to you on both counts .

I could never put a mentally or physically challenged teenager out on the street. I couldn't live with myself afterward. If I had the means to support my child and me, I could quite readily show my husband the door.

I'm certain that there are many issues here that I'm unaware of, but your husband sounds cold-hearted at best.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

So what do you pros recommend that a parent do with a grown child who has not yet found the right combination of help for an anxiety disorder and probably bipolar who abuses substances (on occasion) to self-medicate? Do you throw them out to let them completely self-destruct or do you continue trying to find different help? I do no want to be an enabler, but it is hard to kick out a grown kid who is SICK when they have absolutely nowhere to go but a homeless shelter????

diamondseeker-

I had not been following this thread. I want to say that at some point I want to talk to you on the phone. My daughter and your son seem to have a lot in common, with the exception that my daughter doesn't use alcohol or drugs. She has tried them a few times, but (thank God), she doesn't like them. She does not, however, get relief from medication from her psychological problems. Now that she is 18 my husband is refusing to pay her expenses and has initiated divorce proceedings against me, saying I should put her in the street, which I will not do. Whether there is an end in sight, though, I do not know!

Deb

Hey, Deb. Sure, we can talk sometime. I cannot imagine the scenario of your husband wanting to stop supporting your only child. She is only 18! I remember reading some of her problems in the past. I am so very sorry that she is still having difficulties. I have kept pretty quiet on mine before now, but this thread sort of caused me to post. PriceScope has been my escape and "happy place" through some dark times. I will try to email you if you still have the same email address (juno?). I have some info that might be useful to you regarding expenses.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

DS, I am so sorry. You know you can e-mail me anytime. I agree with RS, unfortunately no one can make anyone do anything they don't want to do. One of my professors always say, "we didn't break them, we can't fix them." That is not to say it is easy for the family to accept. I am a huge supporter of Al-Anon. It is a wonderful support program for family and friends of addicts. Research shows that when the family helps, the substance abuser has a better chance of recovery. Most addicts have some form of mental illness. They have Dual Diagnosis AA meetings.

RS, I never thought I would be into family/systems-based therapy but my professor is so we watching a John Edward's training video. I really like his ideas. Family sculpting looks really powerful.

To Tacori: There are some forms of family therapy that work quite well in addicted family systems. My objection is to those theories that believe that all problems are caused by family dynamics. As along as addiction remains a primary diagnosis, we need to treatment the illness as well as the family dynamics.


To DS: having social anxiety makes treatment more difficult, since much of it is done in groups. If he attends an open meeting, he does not have to talk. He can say that he passes, if someone asks. In a closed meeting, he would be asked to identify himself as an addict or alcoholic. If it were possible for him to say that he has social anxiety and would prefer to listen, he may begin to gain the support he needs. Is he taking a non-addictive medication to lower his anxiety. Most of the SSRI type meds are used for both depression and anxiety. Some are more effective than others.

I have been in the field for many years. If there is anything that I can do, please let me know.

He has been taking addictive medicine to help with the anxiety but it is strictly controlled. He has tried multiple SSRI's and he just can't tolerate them. He says he understands why there is increased incidence of suicide because it is extremely difficult to go off of them. However, he is in the hospital at the moment and they apparently have started him on Seroquel for the bipolar and a side benefit is that it helps with alcohol issues. He is saying that he already feels better and they aren't giving him hardly any anxiety medication. It may be the placebo effect where he just has some new hope (as has happened before), but I have to pray that there is one med in the world that will make a difference for him. On the other hand, these drugs are very scary.

 

[AGBF]

they apparently have started him on Seroquel for the bipolar and a side benefit is that it helps with alcohol issues. He is saying that he already feels better and they aren't giving him hardly any anxiety medication.

My daughter is taking herself off Effexor without her psychiatrist's permission. She is doing it slowly since she has done it quickly in the the past and knows that she gets terrible side effects from withdrawal unless she tapers off slowly. I am, of course, vehemently against this. Effexor was the only medication that worked for her. She does take it in combination with a low dose of Seroquel, which she needs for sleeping, however, and she has not taken herself off the Seroquel!!! In the past when she has tried to go off Effexor, she has had a breakdown and dissolved into deep depression with crying jags all day and terrible anxiety. She has clung to me and asked if she will be OK, and I have assured her she will be as long as she takes whatever medication her doctor prescribes. And I've left it up to her psychiatrist whether to switch from Effexor to something else. (We tried all the drugs commonly used for bi-polar illness except Lithium; tried every SSRI; and tried mixing in things like mood stabilizers with Effexor, too.) Usually we come back to a very high dose of Effexor as best....

Just wanted to mention that Seroquel is a part of the mix! Good luck with it!

Deb/AGBF

 

[risingsun]

DS~ I hope that the new med proves helpful to your son. It is so difficult to watch someone you love go through something like this. How are you doing? I hope you have been able to take care of yourself and find some respite from this ongoing cycle. If you need the support of a counselor for yourself, I hope you will seek out someone to provide this help. I know that it was helpful for the family members who were in counseling with me.