Been holding out...

[monarch64]

TGal, thank you for sharing that. I am trying to get the same point across to WE here. Kids just don''t grow up and forget about the drama. It is possible to love your parents and harbor a lot of ill will against them at the same time and that makes for a very difficult relationship with them, and it carries over into every other relationship. My issues are more towards my mother than with my father. I resent my mother for not being strong enough to follow through with her plans to leave (which was like every six months for years and years...and by years and years I mean from the time I was 2 or 3 until oh, MAYBE 5 years ago when my father got cancer.) By the time I was 18 I was telling her to s*it or get off the pot, that I was sick of hearing about it. Winks, you have two daughters. Can you handle their resentment and hatred later in life? Again, just something you need to think about.

 

[Girlrocks]

Date: 4/9/2010 1:16:48 PM
Author: decodelighted
Girlrocks,
When you tell a community that your ex-husband is a) a serial cheater and b) an alcoholic ... is it really ''uncalled for'' to refer to him using the words ''cheating'' and ''boozing''? Its unrealistic to think that people aren''t going to remember things. Winks even admitted (in this thread title) that she''d ''been holding out'' because she realized people here might have the same negative opinions about her decisions & her situation AS THE PEOPLE IN HER REAL LIFE DO.

We can all look at our toes and hum a merry tune and ''polite'' this to death but, honestly, is that the most helpful thing to do right now? REALLY?

Maybe not, but I don''t recall that she ever asked for anyone''s "help" or for their advice.

 

[E B]

Wink's Elf, I don't usually comment on these types of posts because you're right- there's so much we as faceless names behind a computer screen don't know about your life. But, what we do know (that you've chosen to share with us) is pretty shocking.

Please do some research on the "cycle of abuse" before walking down the aisle a second time. Partners who endure the cycle of abuse (physical, emotional, verbal) often stay with or return to the abuser because "next time will be different."

I wish you the best of luck.

 

[luckynumber]

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

you said it, einstein!



this reads like a bad soap opera. i feel incredibly sorry for you WE. I can only imagine how worried your real life friends and family must be.

 

[vintagelover229]

Winks Elf. I''ve debated all day if I should post on this thread or not. But what''s happening in your life hits a chord with me and I wanted to reach out to you. I know that you said that you''re a Christian and one of the reasons one of your engagements broke off is because of the difference in beliefs. I know you didn''t come here asking for advice. I want you to be honest with yourself. Ask yourself if you are happy with YOU in your life. If your happy with the events of this past year. If someone told you you''re story to you, and you weren''t apart of it, what advice would you give them? I''m not one to give advice, because I feel like I can relate to what you''re going though, not fully, but parts of it. I see your STRENGTH and you''re desire to love someone unconditionally. You deserve only the best, no matter "what it looks like on paper." Wink, sit down, take some time alone and really really HONESTLY think this though. If you believe in God, pray and ask for his guidance. No matter what decision you make, the road is going to be a very very long and difficult journey for everyone involved.

I know people can change. I''ve seen it happen. I''ve made changes. Not like the ones your ex if facing, but I know that anything is possible. But I also am a firm believer in proving it. You have so much to offer Wink. Your an amazingly strong woman, most women wouldn''t have been able to endure what you''ve gone though. Hold your head up high no matter what happens, but always remember to put your kids and yourself first. Take time to reflect on who you are as a woman, and where you are in your life. Your happiness comes first, and it needs to come from within. Just remember that the people posting here care about you. I know it seems insane to think that there are folks all over the world thinking about your well being. Wink, I want you happy and healthy. If you must take that journey with just your kids and yourself, perhaps God, then take it that way. If your spirit is telling you (be honest with yourself) that you need to do this for your family and you honestly believe he''s really changed, make him prove it. I''m not saying not to get married, but MAKE HIM WORK FOR YOU AND YOUR KIDS! Make him show you the changes that he says he''s made.

I wish you the best Wink. I love the ring btw, simple and beautiful.

 

[Girlrocks]

Date: 4/9/2010 1:25:35 PM
Author: monarch64

Date: 4/9/2010 1:16:48 PM
Author: decodelighted
Girlrocks,
When you tell a community that your ex-husband is a) a serial cheater and b) an alcoholic ... is it really ''uncalled for'' to refer to him using the words ''cheating'' and ''boozing''? Its unrealistic to think that people aren''t going to remember things. Winks even admitted (in this thread title) that she''d ''been holding out'' because she realized people here might have the same negative opinions about her decisions & her situation AS THE PEOPLE IN HER REAL LIFE DO.

We can all look at our toes and hum a merry tune and ''polite'' this to death but, honestly, is that the most helpful thing to do right now? REALLY?

Well certainly! The ostrich pose (burying head in sand) is what comes to mind when I read Girlrocks'' post. Very healthy! Sunshine and rainbows all around!!!

Wow-that''s what you got from my post??? Which part exactly was unhealthy...when I said I wouldn''t judge someone that I know NOTHING about or because I said people shouldn''t be questioning her parenting skills?

 

[dragonfly411]

WE - congratulations. But After reading this thread, I strongly encourage you to go to counseling and therapy, and also read books like co-dependent no more. I wish you the best!

 

[monarch64]

Date: 4/9/2010 2:23:02 PM
Author: Girlrocks

Date: 4/9/2010 1:25:35 PM
Author: monarch64

Date: 4/9/2010 1:16:48 PM
Author: decodelighted
Girlrocks,
When you tell a community that your ex-husband is a) a serial cheater and b) an alcoholic ... is it really 'uncalled for' to refer to him using the words 'cheating' and 'boozing'? Its unrealistic to think that people aren't going to remember things. Winks even admitted (in this thread title) that she'd 'been holding out' because she realized people here might have the same negative opinions about her decisions & her situation AS THE PEOPLE IN HER REAL LIFE DO.

We can all look at our toes and hum a merry tune and 'polite' this to death but, honestly, is that the most helpful thing to do right now? REALLY?

Well certainly! The ostrich pose (burying head in sand) is what comes to mind when I read Girlrocks' post. Very healthy! Sunshine and rainbows all around!!!

Wow-that's what you got from my post??? Which part exactly was unhealthy...when I said I wouldn't judge someone that I know NOTHING about or because I said people shouldn't be questioning her parenting skills?

Edited.

ETA: edited again. Maybe you should read the entire thread first before offering your insight.

 

[havernell]

Is there a reason you and your ex-husband can''t just "date" for a while (live in separate houses, see each other a few times a week like a newly dating couple) just to see how things go before deciding to re-marry?

 

[janinegirly]

Date: 4/9/2010 2:40:20 PM
Author: havernell
Is there a reason you and your ex-husband can''t just ''date'' for a while (live in separate houses, see each other a few times a week like a newly dating couple) just to see how things go before deciding to re-marry?

Exactly. Because it''s looking like there is an unhealthy need here to NEVER be alone and also an addiction to the rush of drama (engagement whirlwind and telling everyone). Otherwise why not take it slow, take your time, focus on self first! I think people here tend to be supportive in most cases, but in this case it is very difficult to be.

 

[jjc]

Wow, I just had a good long cry with FI about this topic last night. WE, I’d like to offer another perspective, from further down along the road. My mom did leave my abusive, sociopathic father just about a month ago, after 35 years of marriage and countless years of the back and forth ‘I’m leaving’ dance. We are now in hiding and receive daily death threats from my father. Ultimately, I’m so unbelievably happy for my mom finally being free, and think that what we’re facing now is worth it for her to have a chance at happiness.

However, this is a small sampling of how my parents’ marriage has impacted my life – alcoholic at age 14, PTSD from all the suppressed rage that I, as a child and growing up, had no understanding of, having to walk away from a top 15% seat at a top 50 law school, and now, after working up the strength to return to law school after 3 years, having to stall that again. If I had graduated on time, I would have been part of the last graduating class before the complete tanking of the legal job market. Now, I can’t go outside for fear of my father somehow finding us, and killing us. I’ve been in survival mode all of my life, and am now just so tired that I simply don’t have any focus. The cold hard fact is that I am a mule, collateral damage. That is not to be dramatic, but it’s simply the reality of my life. Another poster mentioned the difficulties for a child to simultaneously love and resent their parent, and I can’t even begin to agree with that statement enough. While I don’t resent my mom, and I would do all of this ten times over again in a heartbeat, I am bound by my love for her. I will always be stuck between making decisions to do things that every fiber of my being is opposing, or the possibility of my mom being hurt. And I’ll never let the latter happen, so I’ll always do the hard, sh*t things that no one else wants to do. I’m almost 30 years old, I think only about ten years younger than you, and I don’t know what it means to live my *own* life, or make decisions based on what I *want*. I would never tell any of this to my mom, so please consider the possibility that one day your children may feel similarly trapped in their lives, although they may never let on that they feel that way.

One last thing, please do consider how your choices will affect your children’s relationships in the future. I’m getting married in 6 months from today. The only fear or reservation I have in getting married is having my FI, who I love dearly and is the world to me, be bound to me forever. I’m damaged in ways that make me want to tell him to run for his life. Of course he knows everything about my life and my past and loves and understands me, but from my perspective, I wish for more for him. Everything that has gone in my life up to this point has been okay, because it only affected me and was for me to handle. But now, inevitably, he is there to help me deal with everything, which is wonderful and great, but I doubt you’d ever want your daughter to feel guilty about giving someone her damaged heart.

I truly wish you all the best.

 

[princesss]

JJC, that was a wonderful, heartfelt post. Thanks for sharing. Stay safe, and I''m glad you have a wonderful FI who is excited to marry you - you deserve it.

 

[Winks_Elf]

Yes, I am involved with Al-Anon, just as he is going through AA and an intensive therapy program, in addition to the actual detox program he went through. We both realize that his treatment is not an overnight thing. He has a disease that will affect him, me, and our children for the rest of our lives.

I''m not going to revisit this thread again. I think all that needs to be said has been said.

 

[decodelighted]

Learning is a lifelong process of obtaining, ABSORBING, UTILIZING and sharing knowledge.

 

[oddoneout]

Date: 4/9/2010 1:26:38 PM
Author: FrekeChild

Date: 4/9/2010 12:46:17 PM

Author: Girlrocks

I''m so sorry how this thread has turned out.

I can relate to you...I am also a mom of 4 and (I guess) probably around the same age as you, and I just wanted to say that I wish you and your family the very best. You came on to show your beautiful new ring and this thread has taken on a whole new context. I would never begin to judge your capabalities as a parent based on what else is going on in your personal life, and I think it''s wrong of anyone else to do so. And you are absolutely right...you have only allowed a very tiny portion of your life to be exposed on this forum, as any normal person would do, especially with 4 young children to protect. So what if you b****ed about your ex or talked bad about him, we all do that in the heat of the moment. And I think it was in very poor taste of someone to dig up an old post of yours and post it in this thread.


I would not begin to judge you, your ex, or offer any advice as to whether or not I think this or any other relationship is wrong or right. I don''t know you, don''t know any details, and don''t know the past. I do know that people grow and change and anything in life and love is possible.


You didn''t ask for anyone''s advice, and I think people should keep their opinions to themselves.


Your ring is lovely, and exactly appropriate for this stage in your life. I find myself wearing a 3mm plain band and channel set eternity band daily because it is more practical for my lifestyle nowadays.


Again, good luck to you and your family. I hope that everything turns out exactly as you want it to!

Well I''ve done it before, and it''s inevitable that I''m going to do it again.


I am the daughter of a divorce attorney. He went into divorce law because of his miserable divorce where his wife screwed him out of time with his kids and bankrupted him for child support. I have two brothers with various issues. One is in a miserable marriage, and the other has major anger management issues, and these are stemming from ONE divorce.


I do care about Winks Elf. I think she''s a fantastic woman, with a smart head on her shoulders, and I''m just imploring her to take her time and not jump into anything. I don''t want to see her get hurt again, the way she obviously has been, as evidenced by the post that I linked to. I did not intend to hurt her feelings and stir up more drama. Sometimes YOUR OWN WORDS will have more of an effect than anything someone else can say.


I will take my ''poor taste'' lashing ANY DAY OF THE WEEK IF IT MAKES A PERSON SIT DOWN AND THINK ABOUT WHAT THEY ARE DOING. I don''t like people looking back at their lives and regretting things if there was some possibility that I could help prevent that. Unfortunately, it often doesn''t help, and they do what they want anyway, but I feel better knowing at least I tried.


That was my try.


I wish nothing but the best for Winks Elf and her children. I want nothing but the happiest of lives for them, no matter HOW it happens.

 

[oddoneout]

Date: 4/9/2010 2:10:46 PM
Author: redrose229
Winks Elf. I''ve debated all day if I should post on this thread or not. But what''s happening in your life hits a chord with me and I wanted to reach out to you. I know that you said that you''re a Christian and one of the reasons one of your engagements broke off is because of the difference in beliefs. I know you didn''t come here asking for advice. I want you to be honest with yourself. Ask yourself if you are happy with YOU in your life. If your happy with the events of this past year. If someone told you you''re story to you, and you weren''t apart of it, what advice would you give them? I''m not one to give advice, because I feel like I can relate to what you''re going though, not fully, but parts of it. I see your STRENGTH and you''re desire to love someone unconditionally. You deserve only the best, no matter ''what it looks like on paper.'' Wink, sit down, take some time alone and really really HONESTLY think this though. If you believe in God, pray and ask for his guidance. No matter what decision you make, the road is going to be a very very long and difficult journey for everyone involved.


I know people can change. I''ve seen it happen. I''ve made changes. Not like the ones your ex if facing, but I know that anything is possible. But I also am a firm believer in proving it. You have so much to offer Wink. Your an amazingly strong woman, most women wouldn''t have been able to endure what you''ve gone though. Hold your head up high no matter what happens, but always remember to put your kids and yourself first. Take time to reflect on who you are as a woman, and where you are in your life. Your happiness comes first, and it needs to come from within. Just remember that the people posting here care about you. I know it seems insane to think that there are folks all over the world thinking about your well being. Wink, I want you happy and healthy. If you must take that journey with just your kids and yourself, perhaps God, then take it that way. If your spirit is telling you (be honest with yourself) that you need to do this for your family and you honestly believe he''s really changed, make him prove it. I''m not saying not to get married, but MAKE HIM WORK FOR YOU AND YOUR KIDS! Make him show you the changes that he says he''s made.


I wish you the best Wink. I love the ring btw, simple and beautiful.

Very well put.

 

[oddoneout]

Date: 4/9/2010 3:32:31 PM
Author: jjc
Wow, I just had a good long cry with FI about this topic last night. WE, I’d like to offer another perspective, from further down along the road. My mom did leave my abusive, sociopathic father just about a month ago, after 35 years of marriage and countless years of the back and forth ‘I’m leaving’ dance. We are now in hiding and receive daily death threats from my father. Ultimately, I’m so unbelievably happy for my mom finally being free, and think that what we’re facing now is worth it for her to have a chance at happiness.


However, this is a small sampling of how my parents’ marriage has impacted my life – alcoholic at age 14, PTSD from all the suppressed rage that I, as a child and growing up, had no understanding of, having to walk away from a top 15% seat at a top 50 law school, and now, after working up the strength to return to law school after 3 years, having to stall that again. If I had graduated on time, I would have been part of the last graduating class before the complete tanking of the legal job market. Now, I can’t go outside for fear of my father somehow finding us, and killing us. I’ve been in survival mode all of my life, and am now just so tired that I simply don’t have any focus. The cold hard fact is that I am a mule, collateral damage. That is not to be dramatic, but it’s simply the reality of my life. Another poster mentioned the difficulties for a child to simultaneously love and resent their parent, and I can’t even begin to agree with that statement enough. While I don’t resent my mom, and I would do all of this ten times over again in a heartbeat, I am bound by my love for her. I will always be stuck between making decisions to do things that every fiber of my being is opposing, or the possibility of my mom being hurt. And I’ll never let the latter happen, so I’ll always do the hard, sh*t things that no one else wants to do. I’m almost 30 years old, I think only about ten years younger than you, and I don’t know what it means to live my *own* life, or make decisions based on what I *want*. I would never tell any of this to my mom, so please consider the possibility that one day your children may feel similarly trapped in their lives, although they may never let on that they feel that way.


One last thing, please do consider how your choices will affect your children’s relationships in the future. I’m getting married in 6 months from today. The only fear or reservation I have in getting married is having my FI, who I love dearly and is the world to me, be bound to me forever. I’m damaged in ways that make me want to tell him to run for his life. Of course he knows everything about my life and my past and loves and understands me, but from my perspective, I wish for more for him. Everything that has gone in my life up to this point has been okay, because it only affected me and was for me to handle. But now, inevitably, he is there to help me deal with everything, which is wonderful and great, but I doubt you’d ever want your daughter to feel guilty about giving someone her damaged heart.


I truly wish you all the best.

Wow I cannot imagine what you''re going through. I want to say you''re an amazing daughter for helping your mom. I''ll be thinking of your safety and strength.

 

[NewEnglandLady]

WE, I know that you said you would not revisit this thread again, so this post may be in vain.

I have read that one of the cardinal rules of AA is that marriage does not enter the picture until at least 12 months of sobriety. The first year of AA is to simply focus on ones own health. The reason seems very obvious to me--it would be impossible to have a healthy relationship while still new to AA--the person in AA doesn't have the emotional tools to be able to have a strong marriage or be a true partner (regardless of how long you have been together before AA).

If he is in AA and you are in Al-anon, this rule is familiar to both of you. As many have previously said, I would strongly advise you to postpone the wedding until you have know you have a solid foundation first.

 

[rosetta]

is this for real?

 

[junebug17]

WE, you''ve said you weren''t going to return to this thread, so you probably won''t even see this, but I felt like posting anyway. You responded to this thread with anger and defensiveness, as I thought you would, and I guess I can''t blame you. Here''s what I hope...that five years from now you can start another thread telling some of us that we were completely wrong, everything worked out well, husband is healthy and doing great, you''re happy, and kids are happy and well-adjusted. Nothing would please me more than to be told my opinion was completely off-base and your family is doing really well. I would be thrilled to be wrong . I wish you the best and hope everything works out.

 

[junebug17]

Date: 4/9/2010 5:53:53 PM
Author: rosetta

is this for real?

Is what for real? Winelover''s comment? I didn''t get it either.

 

[rosetta]

Date: 4/9/2010 5:59:59 PM
Author: junebug17
WE, you''ve said you weren''t going to return to this thread, so you probably won''t even see this, but I felt like posting anyway. You responded to this thread with anger and defensiveness, as I thought you would, and I guess I can''t blame you. Here''s what I hope...that five years from now you can start another thread telling some of us that we were completely wrong, everything worked out well, husband is healthy and doing great, you''re happy, and kids are happy and well-adjusted. Nothing would please me more than to be told my opinion was completely off-base and your family is doing really well. I would be thrilled to be wrong . I wish you the best and hope everything works out.

I would like to add my support to that. Cynic in me tells me otherwise, but more than happy to be proven wrong in the long term.

 

[jewelz617]

WE, I don''t feel I know enough about you or your situation to make a real statement. Trust me, my husband and I have been through some very bad spots in our marriage. Nothing with abuse or cheating, but definitely things I would not want my daughter to be exposed to. We knew our #1 priority was to keep our family together and it was ROUGH. But we made it through. And again, I don''t know you but I do know if two people are 100% committed to making something work, nothing is impossible. I know you will do what is right for you and your family and I wish you the very best.

 

[PumpkinPie]

Thank you for sharing your story Tgal - I''m sorry you had so much pain in your life - I see a lot of damage caused by alcoholism in my practice everyday

 

[PumpkinPie]

Date: 4/9/2010 5:27:55 PM
Author: NewEnglandLady
WE, I know that you said you would not revisit this thread again, so this post may be in vain.


I have read that one of the cardinal rules of AA is that marriage does not enter the picture until at least 12 months of sobriety. The first year of AA is to simply focus on ones own health. The reason seems very obvious to me--it would be impossible to have a healthy relationship while still new to AA--the person in AA doesn''t have the emotional tools to be able to have a strong marriage or be a true partner (regardless of how long you have been together before AA).


If he is in AA and you are in Al-anon, this rule is familiar to both of you. As many have previously said, I would strongly advise you to postpone the wedding until you have know you have a solid foundation first.

Enormous ditto NEL!

 

[risingsun]

Just a suggestion...this book discusses the developmental model of recovery. It may help you to understand how people recover from addictions and why it is important to take the time needed to fully integrate one stage before moving on to the next. Recovery is a lifelong process. It should not be rushed. Please become familiar with the recovery process. Your ex may be making promises that he is not able to keep, if he has not yet achieved that milestone in his recovery.

http://www.relapse.org/custom/cart/edit.asp?p=117046

 

[HaloBelle]

It is unfortunate that you need to keep so low, this is an exciting time from what I can see! Don''t let anyone bring you down - enjoy it as much as you can.

This is a gorgeous ring, I wish the best happiness to the whole family!

 

[Upgradable]

Just thought I''d pass along the news that Winks is planning the wedding for this coming Saturday. I wish she and her family the best!

 

[PumpkinPie]

wow. I hope things work out well - good luck Winks!

 

[trillionaire]

The ring is beautiful! What a lovely piece!

I wish you both the best, and much happiness.