Before and after photos of recut stones that changed color

[petit_bijou]

Re: Before and after photos of recut stones that changed col

Another one to add is Petit Bijou's grape spinel. By no means would I say that this was a failure (I think we all thought this worked out very well in fact), but it did change color and become lighter with significantly more brilliance.

I was just going to say, my recut turned out well in terms of brilliance and symmetry (it wasn't awful to start, I was being picky) but I was a bit sad that the colour turned out lighter, and shows more grey than it did before the recut. I am out of town for a few days, but when I get home I will try to take some new pictures in the same lighting environment. I forget whether I ever posted my own "after" photos or only showed Jerry's picture... As it was an inexpensive stone I wasn't too bothered by it, but I do sometimes look fondly at the "before" photos and wished I'd just left it alone.

ETA: Mine didn't lost much weight, and maintained the same face-up dimensions as it was only a pavillion recut. I also find it closes up in bright sunlight, but I can't recall to what extent it did that before the recut.

 

[corundum_conundrum]

Re: Before and after photos of recut stones that changed col

Would any cutters like to chime-in on red flags to look for in regards to the risk of color-change when deciding whether to recut a stone?

Many PS cutters don't recut others' stones, so this would be a good opportunity to give a disinterested opinion on what features of a stone might indicate that recutting will change the color markedly.

While I find this thread is currently serving as an important warning, I think it would be even MORE helpful if it could supply some information about when color-change is most probable...currently its more of a stop-sign than a road-map.

 

[Euphony]

Re: Before and after photos of recut stones that changed col

I am not a cutter, but I once had one take a beautiful, saturated blue sapphire, turn it upsidedown and stick it is a shallow pan of water. It went from looking spectacular to showing that the bulk of the colour was being held in the pavilion. The water changed the way the light refracted, and showed the zoning. Probably not always helpful, but it was in this case.

 

[ChrisA222]

Re: Before and after photos of recut stones that changed col

I am not a cutter, but I once had one take a beautiful, saturated blue sapphire, turn it upsidedown and stick it is a shallow pan of water. It went from looking spectacular to showing that the bulk of the colour was being held in the pavilion. The water changed the way the light refracted, and showed the zoning. Probably not always helpful, but it was in this case.

Question...if the stone looked spectacular face-up, why would it matter how it looked face-down in a pan of shallow water?

Maybe some of the vets can answer this or back me up, but I thought that color was judged based on how the stone faces up?

 

[ChrisA222]

Re: Before and after photos of recut stones that changed col

I don't want to give anyone the wrong impression--recuts are almost always a good thing. I have so many sucess stories with recuts-I will start a new thread of recuts that improved, before and after.

Here's my only other bad one. In this case, the color didn't change, but inclusions became more eye-visible when the stone was recut from a step-cut into a brilliant-style cushion. It has a lot more sparkle than it ever did...but the inclusions are able to be seen whereas before, the stone was eyeclean.

This is a golden hessonite Garnet, started 5.21ct and finished 4.45ct..the weight came out of the pavillion so the stone faces the same size. This was the same thing I had done to the mint Tourmaline above, it was not a complete recut.

 

[LD]

Re: Before and after photos of recut stones that changed col

I am not a cutter, but I once had one take a beautiful, saturated blue sapphire, turn it upsidedown and stick it is a shallow pan of water. It went from looking spectacular to showing that the bulk of the colour was being held in the pavilion. The water changed the way the light refracted, and showed the zoning. Probably not always helpful, but it was in this case.

As Chris says, coloured stones are judged face up (unlike diamonds). Have we missed something here or are you just saying that this was a way for you to see zoning better?

 

[LD]

Re: Before and after photos of recut stones that changed col

The aquamarine that Minou posted that was recut by Ulli started out at 20ct and ended up at 7ct! The poster was shocked at the weight reduction but it's important to note that as the recut was so drastic it is almost the same as the yield you'd get from rough to finish stone. Whilst the cut on the stone ended up being unarguably beautiful, coloured stones are judged usually by colour which was virtually eradicated in the end result. Of course, there's always a market for very well cut stones BUT I do wonder if the value was affected? After all, if you're looking for an Aqua you'll normally look for a blue one.

 

[Euphony]

Re: Before and after photos of recut stones that changed col

The stone was being repaired because of a natural flaw that the owner did not like. The cutter was trying to illustrate why it might be best to leave it by showing me the way it was zoned. It was well cut, so the zoning was not apparent at any angle until it was seen in the water. I was just throwing it out there because someone asked how a cutter might judge if a stone could be re-cut without it affecting the colour. I was not meaning to imply the zoning made the stone worth less, but that he thought fixing a natural surface flaw on the pavilion was risky, and this was his way of showing me that with this particular stone. Just thought it was interesting.

 

[PrecisionGem]

Re: Before and after photos of recut stones that changed col

Unless both the before and after pictures where taken in the same lighting set up, by the same camera, then the comparison sort of becomes meaningless doesn't it?

 

[chrono]

Re: Before and after photos of recut stones that changed col

Gene makes a valid and excellent point about keeping the camera and lighting identical. I've had a lapidary recut 2 blue spinels he sourced for me of good colouration. Both he and I were surprised by the end result though. The spinels showed a pronounced gray cast, somehow losing a lot of saturation even though the carat weight loss was minimal. I would like to post his pictures here but don't feel comfortable doing so because I've since returned both spinels.

 

[corundum_conundrum]

Re: Before and after photos of recut stones that changed col

Re: Before and after photos of recut stones that changed col
by Euphony » 24 Feb 2013 17:00
I am not a cutter, but I once had one take a beautiful, saturated blue sapphire, turn it upsidedown and stick it is a shallow pan of water. It went from looking spectacular to showing that the bulk of the colour was being held in the pavilion. The water changed the way the light refracted, and showed the zoning. Probably not always helpful, but it was in this case.

Thanks, Euphony. I saw exactly where you were going with this as an answer to my question about how to assess the risk of color change when contemplating a recut.

 

[jstarfireb]

Re: Before and after photos of recut stones that changed col

I don't think they're meaningless, but I agree that they're less meaningful because of the non-standardized conditions. It helps that the people posting the photos include descriptions of what they see in real life.

 

[LD]

Re: Before and after photos of recut stones that changed col

Photos are all we have to illustrate. If a poster comes on and says "I had a recut and I wasn't happy because (insert description)...." and the photos demonstrate this then we have a description and photos and the two combined are sufficient.

This thread is purely to serve as a warning that recuts don't always go to plan AND can be unexpected.

Gene - you don't do recuts and I understand why becaused you've shared before the reason but would you mind reitering why again please?

 

[PrecisionGem]

Re: Before and after photos of recut stones that changed col

I'll do recuts from time to time, but not of other peoples stones, only stones I buy. I also won't cut other peoples rough.

I prefer to work from rough because it's more exciting to take a rough stone, and turn it into a finished stone, see for the first time what the potential is. To take an already cut stone, and rework it, doesn't have the same rewards to me. However, some stone such as sapphire from Sri Lanka, it's not possible to buy rough. The government doesn't allow it out of the country. So these need to be re-cuts.

Sapphire can be one of the more tricky stones to recut as they are often zoned, and you need to make sure you care not cutting the color zone away. Buying sapphires as good candidates for recutting is not a task for the inexperianced.

 

[lambskin]

Re: Before and after photos of recut stones that changed col

I wonder if a darker sapphire could improve to a lighter color by recutting? I am not talking about overheated blue sapphires that look opaque black. But a sapphire that is in the very deep blues that looks bluer in certain lights and at certain angles. For example I have a 5 ct square step cut sapphire that probably has a low crown and large table. Face down it looks darker that if I get it in to sunlight or change the angle. It is not opaque. I wonder if a recut would improve the color?

 

[corundum_conundrum]

Re: Before and after photos of recut stones that changed col

While I can't comment on recutting darker tone stones in order to lighten them, since this thread was started as a warning, I can add that PS cutters have commented in the past that lighter tone stones may be especially risky candidates for recuts. Their light tones may appear even lighter after recutting. Cutters or others are welcome to jump-in to correct me.

 

[deorwine]

Re: Before and after photos of recut stones that changed col

lambskin, I had a sapphire (unfortunately synthetic so I can't post pics) recut by Jerry Newman that turned out dramatically lighter -- it was one of those darker stones like you postulate, sort of medium-darkish with beautiful deep blue flashes. In the recut it turned out as a brilliant medium-blue stone with somewhat less saturation -- it doesn't have any deep blue flashes now; it's all a much more even medium-ish blue. I honestly kind of preferred the color before, but the cut is very nice and bright.

For a natural example, I sent in the sapphire in my avatar (which is medium-to-medium-dark blue and somewhat wonkishly cut) a couple of years ago to Michael E to ask about a recut. Michael told me that it would probably end up much brighter, and also, he expected, a bit lighter and a tiny bit less saturated in color. He did not think the reduction would be much, and he recommended the recut, but I really like the electric saturated color, and because I was super-paranoid about losing even a bit of it, I elected not to do the recut. (But I really appreciated Michael's honesty!)

 

[chrono]

Re: Before and after photos of recut stones that changed col

In recutting a stone, not only can the tone be lightened, the saturation can decrease as well, looking more gray or brown, depending on whether it is a cool or warm coloured stone.

I would never recut a checkerboard into a brilliant cut as there was a reason it was done that way in the first place. Most often, it is used to mask inclusions, less often it is to bring out better colouration in stones that have a closed or dark C axis.