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Before the invention of precise faceting machines when cutting was done by eye...

JRVAULTS

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 16, 2024
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Did cutters ever pre carve stones and carve desired cut layout lines prior to cutting said stone cutting? I have a stone in an oval cab shape. The carved lines on the bottom look like if you were to follow them it would end up with a step cut. On the top side a very light carving of a rectangle on the top of the oval and lines through to the edges of the stone past the rectangle...it would be an easy cut to make just eyeballing it. Has anyone ever heard of such a technique from the past?
 
There is a site geared towards professionals in the Trade including lapidaries. Although I am not allowed to link the site, you can find it quite easily by googling "gemology" and "forums" or "online."
 
Not 100% sure I am understanding your description. Yes, the final shape is roughed out first so only a little material is removed with the actual faceting (i.e., they would not start with a rough sphere for faceting a step-cut).

Some cabs have a faceted pavilion to afford some light return.

I don't think anyone would polish a cabochon crown in prep for later faceting so clearly the decision was made to go cab. Cutter might have uncovered some issues (feather, inclusions) that forced abandoning of the original plan. Or the shaped rough may have been sold, etc.

Others here will know more about the faceting process. Photos would help.
 
Sounds more like a preform not an old cut.
They were sold so beginners could finish the polishing as an easier learning step.

Some classes would have the advanced students cut preforms from rough for the other students as the next step up.
 
Did cutters ever pre carve stones and carve desired cut layout lines prior to cutting said stone cutting? I have a stone in an oval cab shape. The carved lines on the bottom look like if you were to follow them it would end up with a step cut. On the top side a very light carving of a rectangle on the top of the oval and lines through to the edges of the stone past the rectangle...it would be an easy cut to make just eyeballing it. Has anyone ever heard of such a technique from the past?

Screenshot_20241022-162011.jpgScreenshot_20241022-162015.jpgScreenshot_20241022-162018.jpgScreenshot_20241022-162021.jpg
 
The stone weighs between 4 and 5 grams. Any opinion or information is appreciated. Thank you for your time.
Screenshot_20241017-080235.jpg
 
Sounds more like a preform not an old cut.
They were sold so beginners could finish the polishing as an easier learning step.

Some classes would have the advanced students cut preforms from rough for the other students as the next step up.

I added some pics...is that what it is?
 
Oh the picture where it is lit up is using a regular phone flashlight...NOT UV light.
 
Is this what we have been talking about? That's just a carved cabochon. Those lines aren't for planning; they are the end result. I have seen this design mostly with transparent gems like emerald in Mughal beads.
 
Is this what we have been talking about? That's just a carved cabochon. Those lines aren't for planning; they are the end result. I have seen this design mostly with transparent gems like emerald in Mughal beads.

yea that makes sense.
 
I get the strong feeling that once cut and polished it becomes very transparent?
 
yea that makes sense.
In your opinion....with the way it lights up....once polished will it become clear? If it does isn't a 20+ carat ruby rare? This is one of a handful of stones that I got from a lady in NY that had them in a drawer for 46 years.
yea that makes sense.
 
In your opinion....with the way it lights up....once polished will it become clear? If it does isn't a 20+ carat ruby rare? This is one of a handful of stones that I got from a lady in NY that had them in a drawer for 46 years.
If its ruby or spinel its synthetic and I dont think its either.
 
I get the strong feeling that once cut and polished it becomes very transparent?

It is cut and polished and it is barely translucent, so no. It is closer to a rock than a gem -- you can polish all you want and that won't make it transparent. If the grain is fine enough, you could maybe make it shinier. Best of luck with it! Over and out.
 
The stone in question is a finished stone.

No amount of polishing is going to make it less solid-looking and more transparent and clear.

DK :confused2:
 
The stone in question is a finished stone.

No amount of polishing is going to make it less solid-looking and more transparent and clear.

DK :confused2:

Your the expert. Everything I say is only based on logic. This stone was carved on. When I use a rough grit sandpaper on anything no matter how clear...glass even...it becomes clouded. But after using finer and finer sandpaper and then eventually polishing it becomes clear again. What your saying is not logical.
 
Your the expert. Everything I say is only based on logic. What your saying is not logical.

Well then, you must be the expert and perhaps shouldn't be wasting your time with us illogical folks. There are sites that cater to trade members and lapidaries - I urge you to go there and ask them. We are simply consumers who love all things gemstone, whether it is jewelry or just collecting specimens.
 
If its ruby or spinel its synthetic and I dont think its either.

Every stone she sent so far has been natural...I was also assuming it was real based on the fact that it lights up like that with a flashlight. The first synthetic ruby was made longer than 46 years ago?Screenshot_20241022-205439.pngScreenshot_20241022-205932.png
 
Well then, you must be the expert and perhaps shouldn't be wasting your time with us illogical folks. There are sites that cater to trade members and lapidaries - I urge you to go there and ask them. We are simply consumers who love all things gemstone, whether it is jewelry or just collecting specimens.

I'm sorry I didn't mean to offend you. Sometimes what I think is normal seems argumentative and I genuinely don't mean it that way and appreciate any onsite on what I post. Any reply I give I'm just trying to convey my point of view in a very broken way. Sorry again
 
You can imagine I prefer to call people over texting...so many times when I type something without expression...when read sounds super rude....
 
It is cut and polished and it is barely translucent, so no. It is closer to a rock than a gem -- you can polish all you want and that won't make it transparent. If the grain is fine enough, you could maybe make it shinier. Best of luck with it! Over and out.

Based on the way the light shines through the entire stone and just looked cloudy makes me think that after a cut and then buffed and polished it would be clear. Please read this knowing I am a super polite person. Screenshot_20241022-222030.png
 
Is this what we have been talking about? That's just a carved cabochon. Those lines aren't for planning; they are the end result. I have seen this design mostly with transparent gems like emerald in Mughal beads.

Your right it sure does look like these beads... extremely inexpensive beads... If each of the beads was 4-5grams wouldn't it be a very heavy necklace?Screenshot_20241022-223902.png
 
I think bottom line is gia identification and origin report. If you made a necklace out of 20 carat Thai or Burmese ruby it would be worth millions.
 
I think bottom line is gia identification and origin report. If you made a necklace out of 20 carat Thai or Burmese ruby it would be worth millions.

Ruby origins were limited 46 years ago.
 
Your the expert. Everything I say is only based on logic. This stone was carved on. When I use a rough grit sandpaper on anything no matter how clear...glass even...it becomes clouded. But after using finer and finer sandpaper and then eventually polishing it becomes clear again. What your saying is not logical.

Not an expert, however, I have some knowledge about how minerals and other materials are formed.

Please polish a piece of granite that is solid to the core, using whatever means, to demonstrate your theory, that it is possible to increase the transparency or translucency of a heavily included mineral by polishing alone.

This is my last interaction with you and your posts.

DK :x2
 
You can imagine I prefer to call people over texting...so many times when I type something without expression...when read sounds super rude....

FWIW, I'm like you - logic rules and manners drool. :lol-2:
My brain's got a BS filter.
If it doesn't make sense to me, it doesn't get in.

Most people are not that way.
For most people logic and reason are NOT a priority ... Instead, it is always be polite and show respect for what others say - no matter how absurd it is.

I was in the US military for 6 years, mostly stationed overseas.
When arriving in a certain Asian country we had to attend a full week of 'Cultural Sensitivity Training' before being allowed to go off base.
Turns out Americans are clueless that they routinely insult locals with their blunt yankee frankness.
For example if the answer to a question is no, then we just say, "No.".
Easy Peasy, right? NO!

Who knew that a clear simple No could be highly offensive?
In that country/culture they don't just say, "No."
They dance around, and there is a certain art to the 'no dance' that others recognize as a no, but a proper and polite no.

Personally I'm blunt and ruthlessly logical, even compared to my fellow Americans.
It gets me into trouble with people.
My priority is truth and reason, not smooth and pleasant interpersonal relations.
Somehow that inexplicably deeply offends many, people even in America.

Sorry for the highjack. (actually I'm not) :mrgreen:
 
Your the expert. Everything I say is only based on logic. This stone was carved on. When I use a rough grit sandpaper on anything no matter how clear...glass even...it becomes clouded. But after using finer and finer sandpaper and then eventually polishing it becomes clear again. What your saying is not logical.

What you have are finished cut and polished cab with carved grooves on them. No amount of polishing will make them anymore transparent.
No cutter would do this to stones that could be faceted into transparent gems. Your best bet is to leave them alone.
 
In that country/culture they don't just say, "No."
They dance around, and there is a certain art to the 'no dance' that others recognize as a no, but a proper and polite no.

kenny, they do that in Kentucky. I worked on a book by the manager of Gainesway Farms and if we said something stupid he would agree and then explain carefully and obliquely why it was not true.
 
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