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Beware of Insurance Fraud at Gübelin Gem Lab

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AnastasiaBeaverhausen said:
Two things:

1) I would never fault someone for being supportive (as long as they're not fanning the flames so to speak); and

2) Holy beans, am I a veteran PSer now? [Checks history] OMG I really could be. Lol, somehow this makes me feel oldz. :eek2::eek2::eek2:
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Agreed! Hopefully members don't feel I'm inciting OP. My interest in this issue is quite earnest.

Yep, I do believe we're officially old-timers!
grandpa.gif
Though some of us have been here twice as long!!
 
OP, could we skip all the drama? There is no need to bring up the war in Ukraine, the issues with Amazon, or the performance of the Swiss media. Why not present the facts to us in a short summary?
 
@time0998 I had dealt with a months-long saga. On one of my posts, I tried to summarize the key events that had happened during a particular period of time. Here's my example. Hope it helps.

AnastasiaBeaverhausen said:
I’m grumpy because it’s late, there’s positive cases of COVID popping up at work every other day, and now you’re pissing me off.

”FULL REFUNDS”??? Dude, check your sources. Clearly the payment either you or one of your friends were supposed to send today never came through, cuz Ceylon still owes me money!

Here’s what happened since I last posted:

8/25 - Promised I would get full refund within 2 days.
8/27 - No $
8/29 - Almost 1/3 of what Ceylon was willing to refund me was sent to me! Sidenote: the $ was sent from a very familiar-looking account that’s not from @Module or from some dude in Russia. Draw your own conclusions. Anyways, Ceylon promised the balance will be sent by 8/30.
8/30 - No $.
9/17 - Promises the same client from 8/29 (let’s call them Client L) will send me another third on 9/18. Balance would be settled on 9/22.
9/18 - No $.
9/19 - $ from another client is sent to me. And yeah….I know it’s one of his repeat clients from PS because he’s given me that person’s personal info previously.
9/22 - No $.
9/29 - I ask Ceylon if he’s seriously going to just keep waiting for his repeat clients from PS to buy stuff from him and then have them send me their money. He says he has other clients, but he hasn’t done any business in the last 10 days (ha). I ask him again to just send the balance through his black market agent and eat whatever loss he might take since the amount of $ he has to convert is much lower now. He refuses. Asks for another week.
10/6 - No $.
10/7 - Says client will send me balance on 10/11 or 10/12.
10/12 - No $. You, @Ionysis, post on PS wrongly accusing me of having received a full refund.

Seriously, I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: quit trying to cover for CeylonSapphireGems. You just keep making things worse for him. At the very least, get your stories straight before stirring the pot again.

I was hoping to wait til this whole situation is resolved before I come back and post a quick update. But oh well, here we are. It’ll be interesting to see if I’ll ever get the rest of my money back now that this post is up.

Anywho…I can’t thank everyone enough for your support. I’m so sorry I didn’t post an update sooner. I promise if I ever get that last bit of money, I’ll let y’all know ASAP.

P.S. Please forgive any typos and the inconsistent use of past and present tense.
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If I’m reading between the lines correctly, and in this case, it’s not easy to do…

The appraisal or lab report came back significantly different than expected.

OP assumes this means the lab must have switched the gem.

OP requests photos of the gem.

(Gem Lab) provides photos.

OP refuses acceptance of the gem.

OP requests to file an insurance claim.

(Gem Lab) refuses to do so and offers OP the insurance premium back.

OP contacts law enforcement and the Swiss media for help.

OP takes to social media to draw attention to the perceived injustice.



I chose to leave the name of the lab out of my post. We all know by now which lab he is talking about. I’m assuming OP is male.

Time0998, whether you believe it or not, I (along with the other members) am truly trying to be helpful. If you really believe you have been the victim of a scam by someone at the lab, you need to find an attorney that will help and speak on your behalf. Your communication style is not helpful to your cause. I also agree with other members that it is more likely that you were misled by the party that you obtained the ruby from. Whether that was by intent or not, I don’t know. You haven’t shared those details with us.
 
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Here’s a couple more thoughts…

At first glance, it may seem shady that (gem lab) is offering to refund OP the insurance premium. However, they may be taking pity on him for spending $700 to insure a stone with little to no value. Then again, businesses don’t usually make decisions for purely altruistic reasons.

Even if OP hasn’t been able to secure the help of an attorney, I’m pretty certain that by this point because of the accusations, (gem lab) has turned this problem over to their legal counsel. This is why there likely will be no further response from them without following proper legal channels…certified letters, etc.

By the way, I’ve been wondering the same thing as other members about how the insurance process works when submitting a gemstone to (gem lab) from their collection location in Shanghai. If other members have experience with this, please share.
 
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thirdrock said:
Here’s a couple more thoughts…

At first glance, it may seem shady that (gem lab) is offering to refund OP the insurance premium. However, they may be taking pity on him for spending $700 to insure a stone with little to no value. Then again, businesses don’t usually make decisions for purely altruistic reasons.

Even if OP hasn’t been able to secure the help of an attorney, I’m pretty certain that by this point because of the accusations, (gem lab) as turned this problem over to their legal counsel. This is likely why there will be no further response from them without following proper legal channels…certified letters, etc.

By the way, I’ve been wondering the same thing as other members about how the insurance process works when submitting a gemstone to (gem lab) from their collection location in Shanghai. If other members have experience with this, please share.
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So far all the vendors I've worked with have insurance while my item is in their bands. And most have been willing to provide insured shipping labels (and if I made the request, then I'd cover the cost).
 
Does OP speak Chinese? Maybe it is a miscommunication with the Gubelin Shanghai staff? Stones collected by the Shanghai Branch will be sent to Hong Kong Lab for testing. Maybe it is still in the process?
 
fussykiki said:
Does OP speak Chinese? Maybe it is a miscommunication with the Gubelin Shanghai staff? Stones collected by the Shanghai Branch will be sent to Hong Kong Lab for testing. Maybe it is still in the process?
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From what the OP shared, I didn’t get the impression that the gem was actually lost. I think he refused to accept the stone because the report came back with results that he felt were inaccurate. He then assumed that the gem was switched with another stone.

I believe he is a native of China.
 
America is indeed a great country with responsible leaders. It was the United States that first proposed the "Foreign Corrupt Practices Act" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Corrupt_Practices_Act), which means that bribing foreign law enforcement officers abroad by Americans is also a violation of U.S. law. The American people not only do not favor their own people, but also take the initiative to undertake the national obligations of a "rogue state".
I will now talk about the performance of the Swiss government to demonstrate the strength of Gübelin. After my conflict of interest with Gübelin, I have been trying to resolve the dispute through negotiation. The bottom line of my negotiation is "request Gübelin to execute the contract and return my gems safely. The additional clause is that I can sign a non-disclosure agreement with Gübelin" . I even hired a Swiss arbitration lawyer who proposed the following way to resolve the dispute, which I sent to Gübelin headquarters, but unfortunately Gübelin ignored it. At first I didn't understand why Gübelin was reluctant to solve the problem in the most economical and simplest way, but then I learned that Gübelin has the ability to control the government and the media that you can't imagine. So Gübelin doesn't need to take me, an ordinary consumer, to heart. If it wasn't for this platform for me to speak, there is no way you would have known this horrific information. If you don't know this information, it means that Gübelin did nothing. If this platform continues to let me speak, I will present all the truth to you. Below is one of the emails my Swiss arbitration lawyer sent me for your reference.

“

Many thanks for your email and no, you would never disturb me.



I understand the situation, both in terms of your desire to find a solution quickly, as well as the position of tamedia.ch.



In principal, I would be able to act as a mediator in a mediation between you and Guebelin. The correspondence we had so far would, in my view, not yet preclude such role.



A mediation with Guebelin would try to seek a resolution to the challenging circumstances you encounter. This resolution will be based on your and Guebelin’s interests, not on the law and facts. As a mediator, I would facilitate the conversation between you and the company, clarifying issues and, where appropriate, encouraging the parties to propose options how to move forward towards finding mutually agreeable solutions.



The latter is key to the mediation. Every solution you and Guebelin would develop and accept needs to be developed consensually between the parties. As a mediator, I will not decide the dispute between the two parties based on law.



It is possible for me to contact Guebelin for you. My approach to the company would indicate that you have approached me, suggesting a mediation with Guebelin and also suggesting me as the mediator.



Because mediation will only ensue if both parties agree, you would need to wait and see what Guebelin’s response to your suggestion will be. It is possible that they refuse to mediate; it is also possible that they do agree, but do not wish to have me serve as mediator. For either scenario, you need to have a Plan B.



It would be possible to include your conditions in the correspondence with Guebelin. This would have the advantage that some of your key interests are communicated. The down side would be that such approach would solidify positions at a very early stage. In this instance, this could lead to Guebelin refusing to mediate because they will not accept the terms you set as a condition.



However, please note that as I am not your counsel, and may act as mediator in this matter, I need to remain completely neutral in this matter. Therefore, I cannot advise you on how you wish to conduct the mediation. Whether you wish to include the conditions at the outset, or whether they are some negotiation positions you wish to put in the mediation, is entirely your choice.



If you wish to proceed, and before I contact Guebelin, we need to agree on a mediation contract. This contract will set out the parameters of my engagement as a mediator and the same contract must be signed by Guebelin. The contract will be the framework within which the mediation will be conducted.



The reason why I must insist on this contract at this stage is the inclusion of a confidentiality clause. The clause is very broad and protects the parties and myself from any information imparted prior to the mediation, as well as during the mediation, from being shared publicly. This strict confidentiality is a fundamental pilar of mediation as it encourages frank and free negotiations between the parties.



I trust the above explains the approach well, but, of course, if you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact me. As I said at the outset, you do not disturb me at all!


Kindest regards
”
 
thirdrock said:
From what the OP shared, I didn’t get the impression that the gem was actually lost. I think he refused to accept the stone because the report came back with results that he felt were inaccurate. He then assumed that the gem was switched with another stone.

I believe he is a native of China.
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After reading so many posts by the OP, we have yet found out what actually happened. If OP can tell the story better in Chinese (assuming he is native of China), I do not mind translating for him/her.
 
Jadaph said:
OP, why do you insist on writing such long post, but refuse to give a short narrative on what happened? Not sure what the Swiss lawyer's email proves, assuming it was written by a Swiss lawyer...
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There are very obvious reasons why no one is willing to represent the OP as a lawyer and/or to 'expose' this (via media). Unfortunately for OP,those reasons relate to him having zero coherent evidence of anything, and having a clear history of conspiratorial/tangential ideas.
 
fussykiki said:
After reading so many posts by the OP, we have yet found out what actually happened. If OP can tell the story better in Chinese (assuming he is native of China), I do not mind translating for him/her.
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Given how the OP is able to write paragraph upon paragraph with relatively proper use of English grammar, punctuation, and vocabulary (yet continually espouses "Chinese bad, Swiss and USA good"), I don't think a language barrier is the issue here.
 
I have another suggestion for you Time0998.

You stated that you had taken photos sometime prior to dropping off the gem/gems at the collection center. I would suggest taking these photos, along with the ones the lab sent you, to a graduate gemologist. Ask if they can determine if they are indeed the same gems. If they say they are, I suggest accepting their determination and moving on with your life. If they conclude that they are truly different stones, you will have some evidence to further your cause.
 
thirdrock said:
I have another suggestion for you Time0998.

You stated that you had taken photos sometime prior to dropping off the gem/gems at the collection center. I would suggest taking these photos, along with the ones the lab sent you, to a graduate gemologist. Ask if they can determine if they are indeed the same gems. If they say they are, I suggest accepting their determination and moving on with your life. If they conclude that they are truly different stones, you will have some evidence to further your cause.
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To add on, OP, you also mentioned that one of the stones in the pics the lab sent you showed a "crack" going in the opposite direction. Is there any chance the photo might have just been flipped/reversed?
 
thirdrock said:
From what the OP shared, I didn’t get the impression that the gem was actually lost. I think he refused to accept the stone because the report came back with results that he felt were inaccurate. He then assumed that the gem was switched with another stone.

I believe he is a native of China.
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This is what I initially thought, then it sounded like he was claiming something else occurred, and now I'm back to this theory. It makes the most sense to me. We've all asked him very pointed questions, which he seems to be evading. I'm not sure why. But I think my curiosity has been satisfied.
greatideamaybenot.gif
 
I am a Chinese and I can tell you here through my experience. Americans value interests and justice. In the eyes of the Swiss, they only value interests and ignore justice. This article (https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/nazis/readings/sinister.html) says that while the Americans are fighting for justice for all mankind and the Nazis, the Swiss are fighting with The Nazis did business for huge profits. By the way deceive and embezzle Jewish property. These things happened during World War II, and there are certainly some who say there is insufficient evidence.
However, as an ordinary Chinese consumer, I am being deceived and bullied by the Swiss government controlled by Gübelin. This can be clarified through dialogue and investigation with Gübelin.

Don't worry, I will tell all the facts slowly. This platform has fake accounts hired by Gübelin to slander me by saying "why do I have a long talk". How to expose what the crooks do without going into a long story? So many films about persecution of Jews have been made, why make them more?
 
Please stop accusing people on this forum of having fake accounts. We do not, these are real users who are trying to help you. If you continue to make accusations and not share your personal story, we will remove these threads.
 
Ella said:
Please stop accusing people on this forum of having fake accounts. We do not, these are real users who are trying to help you. If you continue to make accusations and not share your personal story, we will remove these threads.
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Except for this message I did not disclose the facts, all my other posts are revealing what happened. The purpose of my last post is to explain that the facts I want to state are very complex and cannot be stated in full in one post. And I'm very worried that I violated your rules again (I didn't mean to) and got deleted by you all. That way my time is wasted.
So I want you to agree, can I provide the facts one after the other? I also have other work to do, and I can't spend all of my time and state everything in one post.
 
Ella said:
Please stop accusing people on this forum of having fake accounts. We do not, these are real users who are trying to help you. If you continue to make accusations and not share your personal story, we will remove these threads.
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To show my sincerity (I didn't mean to violate your rules), I would like to speak in a "review" way. That is, the articles I will publish will be sent to the moderators first, and the moderators will review them before publishing them. I request this voluntarily, is it okay? I'm also worried that my inappropriate remarks will cause problems for moderators.
 
Ella said:
Please stop accusing people on this forum of having fake accounts. We do not, these are real users who are trying to help you. If you continue to make accusations and not share your personal story, we will remove these threads.
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Due to repeated threats from this platform to delete my comments. I declare if you can't see my speech on this platform. I will write my experience into a book and sell it in the jewelry section on ebay and other online shopping platforms for $1 each. I have lost freedom of speech and this is yet another proof that Gübelin has a huge capacity to hurt you.
 
Might not 100% related to your case, but I have a not so similar experience with SSEF, the other famous yet smaller gem lab from Switzerland. I suddenly received a call from them that they accidentally drop my gem and chip it a little bit. And guess what they did? they not only asked me for the receipt and reimburse it 100%, but also returned the gem. the gem was recut with 20% weight loss. I asked them if they want part of the compensation back and they refused. they said it was their bad. This level of integrity is expected from all top gem lab like Gubelin, SSEF, AGL, GIA, GRS, AIGS.

if OP think otherwise, you can always sue Gubelin as long as you have all the evidences. Baseless accusation means nothing. I dont understand why you only want to reveal the evidences slowly. Sue Gubelin, I will wait for the hearing
 
Cognition said:
Might not 100% related to your case, but I have a not so similar experience with SSEF, the other famous yet smaller gem lab from Switzerland. I suddenly received a call from them that they accidentally drop my gem and chip it a little bit. And guess what they did? they not only asked me for the receipt and reimburse it 100%, but also returned the gem. the gem was recut with 20% weight loss. I asked them if they want part of the compensation back and they refused. they said it was their bad. This level of integrity is expected from all top gem lab like Gubelin, SSEF, AGL, GIA, GRS, AIGS.

if OP think otherwise, you can always sue Gubelin as long as you have all the evidences. Baseless accusation means nothing. I dont understand why you only want to reveal the evidences slowly. Sue Gubelin, I will wait for the hearing
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Thank you for your attention. Because the moderator deleted my message many times. For example, "Who will oversee jewelry appraisal agencies?"
Today the moderator threatened to delete my message again. I'm very insecure and I need to confirm that I really have freedom of speech before I can take the next step. Also, as I've said repeatedly, what I'm about to disclose is so complicated that it's impossible for me to state the facts clearly in very few words. If you look at my previous records, I have done my best to disclose the facts. Is the amount of text I disclose every day low? How many words of content do you think I should disclose per day to be reasonable? Also, this forum has rules, how much do I have to disclose each day to be compliant? Can I schedule disclosures based on my free time each day? Or does this forum have specific rules on how to disclose? If there is, please let me know.
Also, the moderator said I "make accusations", I think the existence of any credible platform is to allow consumers to "make accusations" within the scope recognized by law, consumers just like to watch "make accusations", consumers Go to various forums, hoping to learn about various scams. The excellent quality of SSEF you mentioned usually appears in mainstream media advertisements.
Thanks!
 
time0998 said:
what I'm about to disclose is so complicated that it's impossible for me to state the facts clearly in very few words.
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You’ve certainly done a sterling job so far of staying absolutely nothing in many words.

Why not slowly drip feed your story and proof into a word document and cut and paste the full disclosure here (edited, concise & factual) once you’re ready? No need to slowly disclose nothing on a daily basis.
 
lissyflo said:
You’ve certainly done a sterling job so far of staying absolutely nothing in many words.

Why not slowly drip feed your story and proof into a word document and cut and paste the full disclosure here (edited, concise & factual) once you’re ready? No need to slowly disclose nothing on a daily basis.
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Today the moderator threatened to delete my message again. I'm very insecure and I need to confirm that I really have freedom of speech before I can take the next step.
 
I think it's clear that OP has no proof of anything.
 
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