Bezel or prong setting for old cuts?

[LLJsmom]

@Cerulean your two settings are perfect examples of what bezels can do. Even the difference between a full and semi bezel is significant.

I am digesting what @yssie said yesterday more and more.

So @Cerulean your stone seemed to reflect more light with less bezel. But with the bezel, you could see the gorgeous faceting better. However, you have a very white stone, especially for an old cut. So your stone can withstand some reduction of light. But the warmer a stone gets, the less it can tolerate the reduction of light. So maybe a whiter stone can accommodate some reduction of light.

I have a K, and I loved seeing the faceting better with the almost-bezel I have. But I felt like I saw the color more and more over time, which is exactly what @yssie said. And maybe because I am not color tolerant, it bothered me more over time. I do feel like it was brighter when it was in a solitaire type setting. I do like seeing the faceting more clearly, but if I reset MK, I am going for an 8 prong. That's my preference.

@Cerulean , I also see what you see in your last photo (with MK), and I don't like it either. And over time, I feel like I have become more aware of and sensitive to the body color of the stone.

 

[Cerulean]

@Cerulean your two settings are perfect examples of what bezels can do. Even the difference between a full and semi bezel is significant.

I am digesting what @yssie said yesterday more and more.

So @Cerulean your stone seemed to reflect more light with less bezel. But with the bezel, you could see the gorgeous faceting better. However, you have a very white stone, especially for an old cut. So your stone can withstand some reduction of light. But the warmer a stone gets, the less it can tolerate the reduction of light. So maybe a whiter stone can accommodate some reduction of light.

I have a K, and I loved seeing the faceting better with the almost-bezel I have. But I felt like I saw the color more and more over time, which is exactly what @yssie said. And maybe because I am not color tolerant, it bothered me more over time. I do feel like it was brighter when it was in a solitaire type setting. I do like seeing the faceting more clearly, but if I reset MK, I am going for an 8 prong. That's my preference.

@Cerulean , I also see what you see in your last photo (with MK), and I don't like it either. And over time, I feel like I have become more aware of and sensitive to the body color of the stone.

So glad the comparison images are helpful. Yes it is important to note - the E color is a big factor.

I totally get why with a lower color stone, the more prominent body color would be undesirable (for color sensitive gals - all power to those who WANT warmth!!! I wish I did as it would be easier on my wallet )

There is a give and a take with each style, there is no question!

I also got my GIA report for those who are curious! I do believe - even for an OEC - it faces up a bit small.

 

[Dmndsr4evr11]

Just wanted some color in my life, andg give the old girl a rest. I see it enough on my hand. And seriously, this guy is my favorite ugly doll. I'll change it up and post one of his friends every now and then...

My girls collected them when they were younger . Love them too!

 

[Dmndsr4evr11]

I lack the technical knowledge of @yssie by a mile....

But I have both bezeled and semi-bezeled my OEC 3 stone. They are all the same stones. The semi bezel allows so much light in, that I suspect it isn't all too different from a prong mount. I also have photos comparing it while in a holder.

My GIA report is here. I am having a hard time getting my GIA report to even load...but I do know it has a larger table than typical of an OEC. It is the same center stone as my avatar!

Both the semi bezel and full bezel are beautiful, but I did notice a difference. I have pictures in similar lighting environments - they were taken in the same position in my home, or on my block. Obviously time of day is a factor, so this isn't perfect...

In the ring mount and semi bezel, the diamond is "brighter" - it's super crisp whiteness is palpable. I thoroughly enjoy seeing the white stone from the side, too. But facets seem slightly less defined (fewer, broader flashes of color), it's a little mushier, and the stone is a tad less fiery.

In the full bezel - the facets seemed more colorful and prominent. The downside, was that the overall stone seemed a little less bright overall. In some lighting, it seemed to go darker overall. But the contrast is WOAH.

If I had to do it all over, I may have stuck with a full bezel design. I love the current design of my semi bezel, but I think I prefer contrast over even brightness. Altho...after finding such a high color OEC, there is something really pleasing about the side view to me.

Hope this helps!

Ring mount (RM)
RM - Indoors

RM Outside - porch



Full bezel (FB)
FB Indoors


FB Outside - porch


FB - outside porch no 2 (see how it is ....a little less bright? it is so hard to explain...)

FB Outside - down the street


Semi bezel (SB)
SB Indoors


SB technically inside - - EXACT angle and almost same time of day as the 1st porch shot for the full bezel



SB Outside - down the street

Beautiful, @Cerulean! Thanks so much for all the photos. Your bezel setting is similar to what DK will be doing as we discussed. I’m waiting for him to send me the drawings tomorrow to compare with the prong setting drawings he sent. I am leaning more towards the bezel setting. Thanks again!!

 

[tyty333]

So, I bezeled a small, old stone. It unfortunately for me darkened the stone. I looked at the underside and the bezel that it is in is
rather long and it is not polished. It is open at the bottom. May be some of the things that caused it to go dark under the table.
I think if you want to go the bezeled way you need to pay attention to what @yssie has learned and make sure the design/workmanship
takes all that into account.

Here is what my bezeled stone looks like...I dont remember it being dark under the table before it was set. The facets will light up under
the table but they are in general, dark.

 

[lulu_ma]

@Dmndsr4evr11 Do you have any washers or driver sockets? You might be able to conduct an experiment...

 

[Dmndsr4evr11]

@Dmndsr4evr11 Do you have any washers or driver sockets? You might be able to conduct an experiment...

Oh cool!! Such a creative mind!

 

[Dmndsr4evr11]

So, I bezeled a small, old stone. It unfortunately for me darkened the stone. I looked at the underside and the bezel that it is in is
rather long and it is not polished. It is open at the bottom. May be some of the things that caused it to go dark under the table.
I think if you want to go the bezeled way you need to pay attention to what @yssie has learned and make sure the design/workmanship
takes all that into account.

Here is what my bezeled stone looks like...I dont remember it being dark under the table before it was set. The facets will light up under
the table but they are in general, dark.

Thanks so much. I will check with DK once he has the stones to see what he thinks as I am leaning towards bezel setting.

 

[caolsen]

I have a few older cuts in bezels. In have an OMC in a bold YG bezel. The girdle is thin and the shape is wonky, so the bezel helps on both fronts. My pear is an older cut, not truly antique, likely cut in the 1920’s & the girdle is paper thin so it’s a bezel for her.

I also have a OEC that’s in an origunal Art Deco sapphire target/halo bezel. Bezels were used in period, but not a hyper modern lots of high polished metal, bezel. There are bezels with fine miligraining and hand detailing In many an Art Deco piece.

And bezels let you set a stone low and secure which is a huge plus, for me. I WEAR my rings.

I think many folks think bezel and they think the yellow gold ‘kind’ bold, modern with lots of visible metal and not ones like the halo, detailed OEC Bezels can be hugely varied.




And here’s a bezel with a ruby surround, miligrain detailing and an air gap halo. You go go crazy with a bezel. Way crazier than with prongs!

 

[caolsen]

Oh, and color wise - all over the shop! The pear is a L, the OMC and a UX, the round OEC is a D (per GIA) and the rose cut is a very light FY no cup, but a YG bezel. All of the stones are VS clarity.

 

[Dmndsr4evr11]

I have a few older cuts in bezels. In have an OMC in a bold YG bezel. The girdle is thin and the shape is wonky, so the bezel helps on both fronts. My pear is an older cut, not truly antique, likely cut in the 1920’s & the girdle is paper thin so it’s a bezel for her.

I also have a OEC that’s in an origunal Art Deco sapphire target/halo bezel. Bezels were used in period, but not a hyper modern lots of high polished metal, bezel. There are bezels with fine miligraining and hand detailing In many an Art Deco piece.

And bezels let you set a stone low and secure which is a huge plus, for me. I WEAR my rings.

I think many folks think bezel and they think the yellow gold ‘kind’ bold, modern with lots of visible metal and not ones like the halo, detailed OEC Bezels can be hugely varied.




And here’s a bezel with a ruby surround, miligrain detailing and an air gap halo. You go go crazy with a bezel. Way crazier than with prongs!

LOVE all your rings!!

 

[caolsen]

LOVE all your rings!!

Thank you it’s taken me some trail and error but I think I have my look figured out and bezels are a HUGE part of that look.

 

[LightBright]

Oh. I would totally bezel that (not-itty-bitty!) baby. As long as my vendor thought the VTN girdle would be fine - and I can’t see any particular reason it shouldn’t be! I love bezels on stones this size

So interestingly enough many years ago I actually had three stones with really similar faceting - two a bit smaller than yours, one a little bigger. I was going to make earrings and a pendant for my wedding. (This was a long time ago!) And I was debating between prongs and bezels too... And my other half had one of the first consumer 3D metal printers available, and he made me three dummy mounts to try.

No actual setting of the stones, just cups with and without cutouts... I’m sure I posted photos somewhere on PS... I’ll search for them on the computer tomorrow Long story short - in the larger tables, deeper stones where the pavilion mains were driving light return faceup (@Karl_K’s excellent article here https://www.pricescope.com/articles/do_pavilion_mains_drive_light_return_modern_round_brilliant) I found that both prongs (well, pseudo-prongs) and enclosing the girdle of the stone (with minimal “lip” rising over the crown) but leaving the pavilion mostly open had very little effect on face-up. However. A bezel style that fully enclosed the pavilion, again with minimal “lip” rise over the crown - the shape of the pavilion enclosure made a difference.

It was, at the time, very surprising. Now I have some explanations - but I really need a ray tracing programme to prove anything! A rounded cup enclosing the pavilion, if the interior is polished - I clearly remember little visual reduction in brightness face-up but enhanced “contrastiness” (B&W chessboard effect of the facets turning on and off as you tilt the stone). A flat-sided pavilion enclosure, if the interior is polished - much less bright face-up but immensely more fire. That part is easy - less brightness = less interference = better odds of your eye catching a single wavelength of dispersion. And I suspect any pavilion enclosure with interior unpolished would yield a dull and dreary stone.

Real world bezels are never cups or straight-sided buckets, of course!! For one thing the underside is almost always open for cleaning. Often there are gallery cutouts. So... Okay, totally failed on the long story short bit, but - an ASET would tell you so much more. Are you able to acquire one? Either pics or a scope of your own? But... In general... My opinion on this would be to just keep the rise over the crown as low as possible and bezel away!!

Yssie’s observations led me to do an experiment with a leaky antique stone I have. I bezeled the stone with aluminum foil, creating a “cup” or a lip that supports the top half of the pavilion and obstructs light, but likely reflects light back as well. The diamond sits down into a metal frame with an open bottom. Light comes in from the bottom through the pavilion.

Observations:
When the leaky diamond with a high crown is pushed into the metal frame so that the girdle is covered just a little by metal (it’s not a bezel type coverage, it’s more like a “surround” like Dreamer’s original octagonal setting, the stone looks darker and has more fire than when it is loose on the hand or on prongs.

When the stone is loosely placed on top of the frame, leaving the girdle and a little bit of the pavilion exposed (but still providing a little lip of metal to set the diamond down into, the stone does not go dark, has much more facet definition, and is much more fiery than when it is pronged or has a covered girdle. I’m guessing this type of setting is a collet style setting, where the diamond sits on top of a metal surround, but is pronged so it sits above it. I also notice that Steven Kirsch sets his haloed diamonds like this, a little bit of the pavilion shows above his halos, they are not flush.

Thank you Yssie for sharing your knowledge. This actually gives me a good idea about how I would like to set my diamond. With my particular leaky stone, I think a collet style frame with a polished lip under part of the pavilion might look really good.

Sorry to thread jack, but I wanted to share this info in case a collet style bezel was being considered!

 

[lulu_ma]

@Dmndsr4evr11 @LightBright check out this great post I found of Sako’s. You might find it useful.

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[LightBright]

@Dmndsr4evr11 @LightBright check out this great post I found of Sako’s. You might find it useful.

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Interesting!! Sako has created a curved cup to patch up the leakiness and reflect light back, which does the work of the pavilion mains on a less leaky cut.

An observation: on leaky stones, the metal color of the basket or bezel accentuates the perceived color of the diamond quite a bit. Take that into consideration when setting a stone.

 

[Cerulean]

I set mine like this to protect the thin girdle and have prongs. I was scared to bezel my thin girdle, but that may be unfounded worry.

This is gorgeous! May I ask who did your setting?

 

[lulu_ma]

This is gorgeous! May I ask who did your setting?

Hi @Cerulean I haven’t seen @Mrs_Strizzle post for a while.

Here’s the thread on her gorgeous ring:

A new setting and band for Gilda, the OEC

As I posted before, last month I bought my dream OEC. Actually, I never dared to even dream of one as spectacular as she, so I am ecstatic. Since I'm one to name my cars I decided to name her too. Coming from the gilded age and being a creamy yellow, Gilda seemed to perfect. While she had a...

www.pricescope.com

 

[Cerulean]

Hi @Cerulean I haven’t seen @Mrs_Strizzle post for a while.

Here’s the thread on her gorgeous ring:

A new setting and band for Gilda, the OEC

As I posted before, last month I bought my dream OEC. Actually, I never dared to even dream of one as spectacular as she, so I am ecstatic. Since I'm one to name my cars I decided to name her too. Coming from the gilded age and being a creamy yellow, Gilda seemed to perfect. While she had a...

www.pricescope.com

Thank you so much!!!! <3