Big, glowy and included tsavorite... To buy or not?

[icy_jade]

Was looking out for a pair of tsavorites as I just got a ring when I came across this glowy big and super included tsavorite.

Slightly over 5 ct, and not trade ideal color which I understand is darker.


Do you think it’s worth getting? Irl it’s got a glow that caught my eye immediately (that I don’t think I’m completely capturing in the photo).

Was immediately quite intrigued and have been reading about inclusions in tsavorites (here1, here2, here3, here4) since I got home but still am undecided. It’s funny but irl the usual stores I go to usually only stock eye clean tsavs (and mostly in trade ideal/vivid green color) so this is really the first non-eye clean tsav that I’ve seen (or recall seeing). I suspect it’s the inclusions that makes it so glowy?

It comes with the usual local cert stating untreated etc.

I am very attracted to glowy gems in general so I’ve come to realize after buying a few stones that maybe my tolerance for inclusions is fairly high for glowy stones if that’s a factor.

Anything I’m missing or should be looking out for?

Is this clearly a red light stop don’t buy thing or should I go ahead?

Price is below USD 4.5k



Sounds rather silly but when I first put it on my hand I thought this could be one of the ‘Thanos’ gems


Tagging @ZestfullyBling and @ForteKitty who have bought tsavs with inclusions. Any regrets?

 

[Burmesedaze]

I don't think tsavs will reach the same acceptance of inclusions in emeralds (personal opinion) but if you like it, why not?

But not at that price no way!

 

[icy_jade]

@MJO and @Burmesedaze thanks for chiming in

What should be the ballpark price for an included tsav around 5 carats?

 

[qubitasaurus]

It depends how much you love it. On the one hand, garnets can be quite sparkly and it'll be a shame to lose that quality. On the other I am pretty sure a 5 ct one is super rare, and without inclusions I could see that stone going for at least 10k. So I guess it could swing either way.

Personally if you like it more than the one you just bought then it would probably be a yes for me. If you like it less then, realistically it might make sense to spend some time with your current one and see how you like it. If your answer is 'I like them both in different ways' then I would do some soul searching by drawing up a pros and cons list as usually I have a preference even if it isn't immediately clear to me.

 

[icy_jade]

It depends how much you love it. On the one hand, garnets can be quite sparkly and it'll be a shame to lose that quality. On the other I am pretty sure a 5 ct one is super rare, and without inclusions I could see that stone going for at least 10k. So I guess it could swing either way.

Personally if you like it more than the one you just bought then it would probably be a yes for me. If you like it less then, realistically it might make sense to spend some time with your current one and see how you like it. If your answer is 'I like them both in different ways' then I would do some soul searching by drawing up a pros and cons list as usually I have a preference even if it isn't immediately clear to me.

From what I’ve read anything above 3 ct is fairly rare and 5 ct and above extremely rare? I usually see <3 ct stones (but eye clean and “trade ideal” types). So seeing this 5 ct was a bit of a surprise and the inclusions and glow threw me off tbh.

I do like both stones in diff ways. I’m usually less of an objective thinker and more of a go by gut feel type when it comes to baubles/bling. I mean, I’m honestly at this point when I don’t need another ring right? Bought my recent tsav as I thought I might feel quite sick if it got sold, something which I didn’t feel in the past for other tsavs. Could be that I like this setting. Honestly don’t know why this particular tsavs and not the others.

 

[Arcadian]

Priced too high. Pretty though.

 

[qubitasaurus]

From what I’ve read anything above 3 ct is fairly rare and 5 ct and above extremely rare? I usually see <3 ct stones (but eye clean and “trade ideal” types). So seeing this 5 ct was a bit of a surprise and the inclusions and glow threw me off tbh.

I do like both stones in diff ways. I’m usually less of an objective thinker and more of a go by gut feel type when it comes to baubles/bling. I mean, I’m honestly at this point when I don’t need another ring right? Bought my recent tsav as I thought I might feel quite sick if it got sold, something which I didn’t feel in the past for other tsavs. Could be that I like this setting. Honestly don’t know why this particular tsavs and not the others.

Actually its gorgeous, so I think it was a good buy.

I am pretty sure above 5 ct is really rare, don't know how the presence of inclusions effects this factor though. But rare isn't a good enough reason to buy something, it should be something you'd be bereft if you lost.

I don't know I like eliminating things, it brings me a great sense of peace so I always go through it a bit mechanistically.

 

[Mrs_Strizzle]

I have one that is almost this one's twin. While I can't really comment on the price because it's been awhile and I bought from a private party. I will say that I personally love my stone, imperfections and all. I tend to take that attitude about all my gems however, and have very few trade ideals because I really only like larger stones and dislike trade idea prices!

 

[arkieb1]

Great size, really pretty colour possibly a bit over priced, but not badly, only you know if you can live with the inclusions or not. I like the colour of it.

 

[lovedogs]

I really like it! It seems expensive to me, but I've never seen a tsav that big, so hard to say.

 

[Nick_G]

The colour is gorgeous!

 

[NKOTB]

I’m not sure if those commenting on the price being high have actually looked for (or sold, in the case of the trade member) big tsavs lately? That size is extremely rare, the colour looks nice, for me it’s a matter of if it’s structurally okay to set, if you love it, and if you can afford it.

I have a 4 ct included tsav that I haven’t set yet. I plan to put it in a pendant.

 

[ForteKitty]

Tagging @ZestfullyBling and @ForteKitty who have bought tsavs with inclusions. Any regrets?

I have some tsabs with a lot of inclusions, some with really cool tube/needle inclusions, and some really really clean ones, one super clean and perfect one from Gene. I haven't set any of them so i can't say whether the inclusions would bother me or not. Mine were also at old, old pricing, so nowhere near $4500. That said, the tsav you're considering is really pretty and the perfect color to me personally. Are there any internal fractures that might compromise it if you hit it hard by accident? I wore my amazingly awesome 4.75ct Spess from @mastercutgems this weekend to the PS GTG and accidentally tapped it on the table and I freaked out. Wasn't even a hard knock on probably the halo, and it doesnt have nearly as many inclusions... but I still worry. Will you be able to tolerate that aspect?

 

[DauphineMucha]

The look reminds me of a lush Chivor emerald.

 

[ForteKitty]

You know what, can you get a picture of it with light coming in from the back? I wonder just how included it really is, and how much is finger smudges.

 

[elle_71125]

Personally, I find that inclusions can sometimes make a gem look more glowy. This is a really gorgeous color and a very large size for tsavorite. As long as the inclusions aren’t a problem structurally, I’d go for it. Maybe try bargaining a little...because it never hurts to ask.

 

[LemonMoonLex]

So I couldnt decide enough one way to vote so I wanted to comment on what I'm thinking;

For me personally, the inclusions dont matter one bit but there is something slightly odd about the stone and I couldnt put my finger on it until now;
its the shape.

The color is so damn lush but I realized that for me, the shape is just so strange and leaves something feeling undone or unfinished. As if the cutter couldnt decide between two shapes. I guess my heart just craves to see it either in a traditional emerald cut OR a oval cut but not being a mixture of the two shapes.

I really really adore the color though so this is a hard one.

For me, since a recut is probably not possible with the magical title of "5cts" and it being so included, I would probably pass.

BUT, if the shape doesn't bother you one bit, then I say go for it because a 5ct tsav this glowy is oh-so-fun to look at! I'd urge you to ask and see if you could get 10-20% off though! By the way, I WILL ALWAYS be supportive of your pursuit in becoming the great Thanos with gemstones! Its such an honorable one!

Just my two cents from my small corner of the world!

 

[qubitasaurus]

So I couldnt decide enough one way to vote so I wanted to comment on what I'm thinking;

For me personally, the inclusions dont matter one bit but there is something slightly odd about the stone and I couldnt put my finger on it until now;
its the shape.

The color is so damn lush but I realized that for me, the shape is just so strange and leaves something feeling undone or unfinished. As if the cutter couldnt decide between two shapes. I guess my heart just craves to see it either in a traditional emerald cut OR a oval cut but not being a mixture of the two shapes.

I really really adore the color though so this is a hard one.

For me, since a recut is probably not possible with the magical title of "5cts" and it being so included, I would probably pass.

BUT, if the shape doesn't bother you one bit, then I say go for it because a 5ct tsav this glowy is oh-so-fun to look at! I'd urge you to ask and see if you could get 10-20% off though! By the way, I WILL ALWAYS be supportive of your pursuit in becoming the great Thanos with gemstones! Its such an honorable one!

Just my two cents from my small corner of the world!

I think it is super common though for stones which are of a rare or scarce material, to be cut in a modified or mixed cut style that is a mixture of several different cuts.

Like NKOTB I am confused about the people saying it is expensive. Having recently watched distracts try to buy a 3 ct one (and seeming to remember this was already headed for 10+ k (sorry I am so busy and tired just going to give ball park figures and hope someone else works the details out) for the one which confirmed more with the 'trade ideal' label). Similarly I thought jewels by grace just sold a 5ct merlaine mint with a price tag of something like 25 k. Right at the moment they're rare and expensive.

I guess it never hurts to negotiate! If this seller is who I think it is then I would do it gently though, as he tends to offer his best price first and is quite old school (he also sometimes turns people away and just refuses to work with them -- it really isn't about closing a deal or making a sale for him. I suspect it is more about the 'art of his craft' as his jewelery is sublime and I think he just enjoys being a master of his craft.).

 

[T L]

Are you okay with the half ‘n half extinction?

You can find large included tsavorite cabochons for much less I think. I probably would not spend that much on such an included tsavorite. Inclusions in tsavorite are not as accepted as in emerald. The stone looks sleepy. Tsavorite should sparkle.

 

[ZestfullyBling]

@icy_jade I didnt vote on this one. I dont hate it but dont love it either. It has positiives and negatives.
No regrets with mine because I love how and where the glowy inclusions are in the stone, the shape and tone.

The one You are considering is HUGE and i like that tone of green because it will not have extinction in different lighting conditions. Not sure if the price is competitive with the inclusions though. But 5 cts is massive. Ultimately you have to be in love with it.

 

[lovedogs]

I keep coming to check this thread. It's a lovely stone. If you can afford it, go for it!

 

[NKOTB]

Are you okay with the half ‘n half extinction?

You can find large included tsavorite cabochons for much less I think. I probably would not spend that much on such an included tsavorite. Inclusions in tsavorite are not as accepted as in emerald. The stone looks sleepy. Tsavorite should sparkle.

Granted, this is bigger, but here’s a cab comparison, and I don’t like the colour as much.
https://www.ajsgem.com/garnet/tsavorite-garnet/tsavorite-garnet-8.73-carats.html

 

[T L]

Granted, this is bigger, but here’s a cab comparison, and I don’t like the colour as much.
https://www.ajsgem.com/garnet/tsavorite-garnet/tsavorite-garnet-8.73-carats.html

This cabochon is over 8 carats, which may account for the $1200/carat price. I’ve seen many tsavorite cabochons on Instagram, so it’s worth taking a look to price compare for a smaller stone.

That being said, with tsavorite, included or not, clarity enhancement must be considered. I would want a lab report ruling out clarity treatment, especially on included gems, faceted or cabochon.

 

[T L]

People have bought from this seller before, but just to give you a price idea for a moderately sized gem. I do not know if it’s clarity enhanced. Tsavorite prices are all over the place on eBay, but included stones are often very affordable.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/173866254336

 

[icy_jade]

Do apologize for not responding to each of your comments but truly appreciate everyone of you chiming in.

Are you okay with the half ‘n half extinction?

You can find large included tsavorite cabochons for much less I think. I probably would not spend that much on such an included tsavorite. Inclusions in tsavorite are not as accepted as in emerald. The stone looks sleepy. Tsavorite should sparkle.

The look reminds me of a lush Chivor emerald.

I haven’t seen included tsav cabs before... agree it’s sleepy but it’s glowy you know? Not like a tsav and more like an emerald indeed. Jardin and all

I have some tsabs with a lot of inclusions, some with really cool tube/needle inclusions, and some really really clean ones, one super clean and perfect one from Gene. I haven't set any of them so i can't say whether the inclusions would bother me or not. Mine were also at old, old pricing, so nowhere near $4500. That said, the tsav you're considering is really pretty and the perfect color to me personally. Are there any internal fractures that might compromise it if you hit it hard by accident? I wore my amazingly awesome 4.75ct Spess from @mastercutgems this weekend to the PS GTG and accidentally tapped it on the table and I freaked out. Wasn't even a hard knock on probably the halo, and it doesnt have nearly as many inclusions... but I still worry. Will you be able to tolerate that aspect?

Will definitely have to check re internal fractures... if I go back and see. I’ve some pretty included gems so I think I can tolerate that and I’m usually in the halo everything camp so should have some protection after setting

You know what, can you get a picture of it with light coming in from the back? I wonder just how included it really is, and how much is finger smudges.

Included. I mean there are definitely finger smudges cos I’ve oily fingers but it’s included. Will take a pic like that if I go back.

So I couldnt decide enough one way to vote so I wanted to comment on what I'm thinking;

For me personally, the inclusions dont matter one bit but there is something slightly odd about the stone and I couldnt put my finger on it until now;
its the shape.

The color is so damn lush but I realized that for me, the shape is just so strange and leaves something feeling undone or unfinished. As if the cutter couldnt decide between two shapes. I guess my heart just craves to see it either in a traditional emerald cut OR a oval cut but not being a mixture of the two shapes.

I really really adore the color though so this is a hard one.

For me, since a recut is probably not possible with the magical title of "5cts" and it being so included, I would probably pass.

BUT, if the shape doesn't bother you one bit, then I say go for it because a 5ct tsav this glowy is oh-so-fun to look at! I'd urge you to ask and see if you could get 10-20% off though! By the way, I WILL ALWAYS be supportive of your pursuit in becoming the great Thanos with gemstones! Its such an honorable one!

Just my two cents from my small corner of the world!

Hahahahaha your comment about being Thanos made me laugh. Thanks for your support!

I’m not a fan of the shape too but irl it’s the glow that captivates me.

I think it is super common though for stones which are of a rare or scarce material, to be cut in a modified or mixed cut style that is a mixture of several different cuts.

Like NKOTB I am confused about the people saying it is expensive. Having recently watched distracts try to buy a 3 ct one (and seeming to remember this was already headed for 10+ k (sorry I am so busy and tired just going to give ball park figures and hope someone else works the details out) for the one which confirmed more with the 'trade ideal' label). Similarly I thought jewels by grace just sold a 5ct merlaine mint with a price tag of something like 25 k. Right at the moment they're rare and expensive.

I guess it never hurts to negotiate! If this seller is who I think it is then I would do it gently though, as he tends to offer his best price first and is quite old school (he also sometimes turns people away and just refuses to work with them -- it really isn't about closing a deal or making a sale for him. I suspect it is more about the 'art of his craft' as his jewelery is sublime and I think he just enjoys being a master of his craft.).

Thanks for the tip! I did get a cheap spinel and rubellite to play with. You can see in this background:

Edit: you can see the fab color/glow that captivated me in this pic. From a distance it’s just the wonderful bright color and glow.

I did also see an over 7 ct unheated yellow sapphire that made me so glad to have gotten mine

 

[icy_jade]

Oh and this stone is a perfect candidate for this thread:
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/show-me-your-less-than-perfect-gems.171747/

Was just reflecting on my collection and I think it’s interesting that I’ve evolved from “perfect” gems only when I started to liking/buying silky/included gems.

 

[qubitasaurus]

Do apologize for not responding to each of your comments but truly appreciate everyone of you chiming in.




I haven’t seen included tsav cabs before... agree it’s sleepy but it’s glowy you know? Not like a tsav and more like an emerald indeed. Jardin and all



Will definitely have to check re internal fractures... if I go back and see. I’ve some pretty included gems so I think I can tolerate that and I’m usually in the halo everything camp so should have some protection after setting



Included. I mean there are definitely finger smudges cos I’ve oily fingers but it’s included. Will take a pic like that if I go back.



Hahahahaha your comment about being Thanos made me laugh. Thanks for your support!

I’m not a fan of the shape too but irl it’s the glow that captivates me.



Thanks for the tip! I did get a cheap spinel and rubellite to play with. You can see in this background:

Edit: you can see the fab color/glow that captivated me in this pic. From a distance it’s just the wonderful bright color and glow.

I did also see an over 7 ct unheated yellow sapphire that made me so glad to have gotten mine

Love the rubellite . Yes you've generally curated a really lovely collection. I also like included gems, lol I think in my case it is just that I love the glow and I have bad eyesight! So I have a pretty high tolerance for inclusions as long as the sparkle is still there and the stone isn't flat looking, I don't mind.

Re the seller -- yes he is super old school, so if someone is likely to hard ball negotiate on price I wince a little on recommending him (as I feel I won't be doing either party any favours as they'll just end up atwixt) -- having said that there is never anything wrong with asking things nicely, so I don't mean (and I would never mean) that people should feel uncomfortable asking if there is any leeway in a set pricing structure.

 

[T L]

Oh and this stone is a perfect candidate for this thread:
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/show-me-your-less-than-perfect-gems.171747/

Was just reflecting on my collection and I think it’s interesting that I’ve evolved from “perfect” gems only when I started to liking/buying silky/included gems.

Some of those “imperfect” gems would be clawed over by gem collectors today, especially those Paraiba cabs on page two!!

I think inclusions are fine, as long as the price is fair. Have you compared it side by side to an actual Chivor emerald that color though? Have you also seen it in various light sources?

 

[icy_jade]

Love the rubellite . Yes you've generally curated a really lovely collection. I also like included gems, lol I think in my case it is just that I love the glow and I have bad eyesight! So I have a pretty high tolerance for inclusions as long as the sparkle is still there and the stone isn't flat looking, I don't mind.

Re the seller -- yes he is super old school, so if someone is likely to hard ball negotiate on price I wince a little on recommending him (as I feel I won't be doing either party any favours as they'll just end up atwixt) -- having said that there is never anything wrong with asking things nicely, so I don't mean (and I would never mean) that people should feel uncomfortable asking if there is any leeway in a set pricing structure.

Office lighting with the rubellite.


It kills the OCD part of me a little that it isn’t perfectly square

Some of those “imperfect” gems would be clawed over by gem collectors today, especially those Paraiba cabs on page two!!

I think inclusions are fine, as long as the price is fair. Have you compared it side by side to an actual Chivor emerald that color though? Have you also seen it in various light sources?

Those paraiba cabs are tdf...

No and no. Didn’t see any comparable emerald in the store. But an emerald will cost far more ya?

 

[icy_jade]

So I asked my regular jeweller and he was shocked by the price - conclusion: price is too high. I tend to believe him as I’d seen a yellow unheated sapphire that wasn’t as good quality wise as mine (imho) but close in price to mine.

So looks like this stone is a no go but I’ve asked him to keep an eye out for glowy big tsavs (included to keep price down) for me.