Burma Blues at NSC

[Sagebrush]

TL, et al,


For years spinel existed pretty much as a dealer's stone, only dealers were interested, the public was not. Perhaps this is because colorless spinel was used as a diamond substitute in the 19th Century and that "substitute" idea held on. Spinels were graded pretty much like tourmaline, as look-alike stones. A red spinel was graded by how close it resembled ruby, blue spinel, as sapphire and so on. Now, with the Mahenge material and the so-called cobalts from Sri Lanka (which hardly existed in the market 10 years ago) the light bright reds and the light bright blues are coming to the fore. So, should still be some good deals out there while the market re-calibrates.

Loving Diamonds, I was referring to the images posted by VapidLapid, I believe. You make the point that grading is "subjective" that means there are no objective criteria? Yet, you talk about gray, isn't that an objective criterion? You are simply wrong here. Hue/saturation/tone, cut, clarity eye clean, VVS, etc.), crystal are all definable, objective criteria. Logically, if there are no objective criteria, grading is impossible.

The crystal of the sapphire is smoky. Pretty common in sapphire, the hue is pure blue. The grade is based on the pure blue day color and the pure purple night hue. Again, you are telling me how an image looks on your monitor. You are talking about an image, I am talking about a stone.

Best,

 

[T L]

You are simply wrong here. Hue/saturation/tone, cut, clarity eye clean, VVS, etc.), crystal are all definable, objective criteria. Logically, if there are no objective criteria, grading is impossible.

That is why I prefer AGL color grading reports vs. in-house vendor grading, since objectivity can vary from vendor to vendor, making opinions more subjective. From AGL's website:

In establishing a base for international quality reference standards, AGL had to be sure that all gemstones from the best to the worst could be accommodated by the system. Therefore, the top of the scale has become almost a theoretical standard of excellence. Please do not ask for 1.00 to 2.00 color grades. Because of the AGL's stringent grading practices, a 3.5 color is usually the best color grade any gem will receive. A 3.5 colored gemstone on an AGL Grading Report is nearly synonymous with a D-color diamond on a GIA Diamond Grading Report. On rare occasion, AGL may find exceptional examples that will receive even better color grades.

http://www.aglgemlab.com/Services/Prestige.aspx

 

[Sagebrush]

TL,

I don't disagree. I like the AGL color-scan system. It has changed somewhat since I worked with it. For example, there are 2.5 colors in the original set and I have seen an occasional report with hue rating in the 2s and thought Beasley once told me that his "texture" is the equivalent of Crystal, it really isn't.

I am grading my own stones as a guide and as an antidote to the image problem. I am only as objective as a seller can be and some would argue that that is not objective at all.

BTW I was assuming that the Prestige Report was the one with the color pictures and binder, my mistake, I guess that is not correct from what I read following your link. So yes, that is the one to get.

 

[Gailey]

I wonder how AGL would grade Mr Wise's colour change sapphire?

 

[minousbijoux]

Mr Wise, besides secret pricing another thing that turns me off is someone constantly mentionining the books that he/she writes.
It is like talking to a billboard.

We know you write books.
We know they are for sale.
The sig line is bad enough.
People make buying decisions based on funny things.
Impressions matter.

IMHO the goal here is not to be nice or to be mean.
The goal is getting good gems out.
These two things prevented you from doing that in one customer, me, so I'm sincerely trying to offer a service by speaking up.
Usually when one persons mentions something there is a couple more who think it too.

Sure people vary, and many are not put off by these two things.
But wouldn't it be nice to reach even more customers?

A couple months ago on Rocky Talk secret pricing was discussed and as a restult Leibish & Co. put prices on the vast majority of stones that used to be "call for price".
I certainly respect every business person's right to make their own calls but being aware of trends and noticing what others do may be Wise.

Kenny:

I could follow you anywhere! Your posts are always interesting, very funny and often even cause me to hang in suspense, waiting for the responses...thank you for your excellent, and very funny, comments.

This is who I am: I am someone who has worked all my life. I have tried to be fair to everyone and to treat others as I would want to be treated. I am put off by arrogance.

I always wanted a sparkly engagement ring, but we couldn't afford it. I spent many years working hard to support my family - gems and jewelry were way too self-indulgent to be considered. So now finding myself on my own after almost 20 years of marriage, I realize that I can finally spend my hard-earned money the way I want to. After saving for years and being fairly prudent in spending, I have a certain amount of disposable income and a desire to collect stones, and I have now been buying gem quality stones for a while. Am I wealthy? Absolutely not. Can I afford to occasionally buy an excellent stone? Yes, if I'm careful. Will I buy it from someone who makes me feel like its an exclusive club where I must call for pricing? Never - I won't take the time. I buy from vendors who are welcoming, accommodating, and have high quality - and, with the help of the Psers, I am slowly finding them. Are there others out there like me? You can count on it.

I am always trying to learn more. There is a certain book I should probably read to further my knowledge, but the sledge hammer effect doesn't work that well on me...

Kenny, and everyone, thanks again.

 

[Michael_E]

I am put off by arrogance.

Sometimes it's not arrogance, but rather "filtering". A seller generally only has so much time and if you devote that time to the wrong people you are a goner.

Will I buy it from someone who makes me feel like its an exclusive club where I must call for pricing? Never - I won't take the time. I buy from vendors who are welcoming, accommodating, and have high quality - and, with the help of the Psers, I am slowly finding them. Are there others out there like me? You can count on it.

Interesting thinking, but you may not be doing yourself any favors. Here's the reality....when you are buying a gemstone worth thousands of dollars it IS an exclusive club. The higher the cost the greater the exclusivity. If you are not willing to make a call, then how are you willing to contact a vendor ? You want the price right up front, posted for all the world to see ...why ? So that you can compare the pictures of different things at different prices ? There are tons of great pictures of crappy stones on E-Bay. Do you really want to compare them to better stuff that is hidden from you, the access to which is filtered to make sure that a potential buyer is more likely to be a serious buyer ? If so then you may be relegating yourself to a lower tier of goods or to paying higher prices by deciding up front that the way that someone presents their business means that they are treating you badly....when in reality they may be the ones who would treat you the best, given the chance. If you are buying goods in the upper end I would recommend basing your buying decisions less on pictures and websites and more on a personal interaction with whichever sellers appeal to you after you contact them.

 

[Lula]

.....

 

[Lula]

I am put off by arrogance.

Sometimes it's not arrogance, but rather "filtering". A seller generally only has so much time and if you devote that time to the wrong people you are a goner.

If you are buying goods in the upper end I would recommend basing your buying decisions less on pictures and websites and more on a personal interaction with whichever sellers appeal to you after you contact them.

Well said. I agree with everything in your post, but these two snippets get to the heart of the matter, in my opinion.

 

[minousbijoux]

Michael:

That's food for thought. Thanks for your point of view.

 

[klewis]

The unpublished prices on Richard's website are just that, unpublished, but accessible to those that want to enquire - some of us do enquire, some don't. Calling them 'secret' is emotive and misrepresents the situation. I don't have a problem asking after prices from Richard Wise or any other vendor.

Positive references of gem buying experiences from Richard Wise may get me labeled a "Richard Wise groupie" but what the heck...

I was initally hesitant about buying a particular stone recommended to me from his inventory because the stone in the pic showed some brown and looked less crisp than what I wanted . He assured me the brown in the image didn't exist in the stone nor did the seemingly slightly sleepy appearance and on receiving the stone it was exactly as described on the website and in Richard's description of it in our phone conversations. The proof was in the pudding

 

[movie zombie]

[quote="Michael_EInteresting thinking, but you may not be doing yourself any favors. Here's the reality....when you are buying a gemstone worth thousands of dollars it IS an exclusive club. The higher the cost the greater the exclusivity. If you are not willing to make a call, then how are you willing to contact a vendor ? You want the price right up front, posted for all the world to see ...why ? So that you can compare the pictures of different things at different prices ? There are tons of great pictures of crappy stones on E-Bay. Do you really want to compare them to better stuff that is hidden from you, the access to which is filtered to make sure that a potential buyer is more likely to be a serious buyer ? If so then you may be relegating yourself to a lower tier of goods or to paying higher prices by deciding up front that the way that someone presents their business means that they are treating you badly....when in reality they may be the ones who would treat you the best, given the chance. If you are buying goods in the upper end I would recommend basing your buying decisions less on pictures and websites and more on a personal interaction with whichever sellers appeal to you after you contact them.[/quote]

amen.

it is also a P* rule that those "in the business" must indicate it in their signature....whether that is as an author, gem vendor, gem cutter, etc.

MoZo

ps
i would also say that what many think should be the norm for all vendors who have a website just is not the norm for high end vendors....i don't expect ebay vendors to have world class stones and i don't expect world class vendors to run their business like an ebay store. if anyone doesn't like a particular vendor, they don't like a particular vendor.....for what ever reason, it just doesn't matter: don't buy from them. however, to presume to tell a seller how to run his/her business seems a bit presumptious to me....and to keep harping on it seems to be more than expressing an opinion. yes, everyone has a right to his/her opionion......but its getting repetitious. realize that some vendors just may not need our business as much as we want access to their vault: their business, their rules. also, some vendors like a more personal interaction which making that phone call allows.....and i as a buyer also prefer that interaction. each to their own and each to their own choice of stones from the seller of their choice.

 

[Arcadian]

If you are buying goods in the upper end I would recommend basing your buying decisions less on pictures and websites and more on a personal interaction with whichever sellers appeal to you after you contact them.

Can that be the quote of the day?

I know that what I'm about to say is unpopular but sometimes relying on the sellers eyes isn't necessarily a bad thing! Matter of fact, there have been 2 sellers that I've used here that I've absolutely trusted their opinions and I've been very satisfied with the purchase.

I'm not saying we should drop the ball and not do due diligence because I think its a must, no matter if the purchase is 8 or 800,000.

But the reality is that when you're buying something in a high end category, you're not always going to be shown a price on a web page, because that type of transparency dosen't always exist.

And if you're the type to find that intimidating, then thats not the seller for you.

Of course we're all free to buy whomever we want, and to those who want more transparency as far as price, they SHOULD absolutely buy from those who are willing to give them that. But think about it from another angle, there are those who really don't want someone to know they just paid 50 grand for a gemstone. seriously, thats a lot of money for some, and while some won't way it (I will) it can get pretty catty on this forum. So for those people, there are sellers who don't show prices. There's someone out there for everyone at every pricepoint IMO.

At the end of the day, get to know who your seller is. If you can't trust your seller to some degree, then don't buy from them period.

-A

 

[T L]

...

 

[Aoife]

A lot of interesting and valuable viewpoints here. The one thing that made me laugh was the idea, probably true for a lot of people on PS, that if someone spent $$$'s+ on a gemstone that had its price posted online, they might not like other PSers to know how much they paid, because of course they'd want to show it off here! Personally, if I didn't want anyone to know how much I paid, I probably just wouldn't post about it

I'd stay at home, staring at my new treasure and cackling......

 

[T L]

it is also a P* rule that those "in the business" must indicate it in their signature....whether that is as an author, gem vendor, gem cutter, etc.

MZ, that is understood, but Richard constantly talks about his book. It does get a bit silly sometimes, and I've heard other people complain about it on other gemological related sites. I also think it's a bit unfair to other vendors who cannot sell their merchandise here, but Richard is constantly hawking his book. For example, in the colored diamond thread, he told me to read his book first and then he'll answer some questions. Many times he'll start a sentence with "in my book. . . " and he really doesn't need to do that. He just needs to state the information without citing his book as a reference guide all the time. JMO. As Kenny said, we all know he wrote a couple of books, and it is in his signature, so why do we have to keep getting cited references from it? It's almost like it's a commercial.

 

[klewis]

it is also a P* rule that those "in the business" must indicate it in their signature....whether that is as an author, gem vendor, gem cutter, etc.

MZ, that is understood, but Richard constantly talks about his book. It does get a bit silly sometimes, and I've heard other people complain about it on other gemological related sites. I also think it's a bit unfair to other vendors who cannot sell their merchandise here, but Richard is constantly hawking his book. For example, in the colored diamond thread, he told me to read his book first and then he'll answer some questions. Many times he'll start a sentence with "in my book. . . " and he really doesn't need to do that. He just needs to state the information without citing his book as a reference guide all the time. JMO. As Kenny said, we all know he wrote a couple of books, and it is in his signature, so why do we have to keep getting cited references from it? It's almost like it's a commercial.

.

I also notice Richard mentions his book often but it doesn't bother me but if you think it is so unfair to other vendors the correct procedure would be to take it up with the forum Moderators.
Although I don't post in them, I do hang out on a couple of other gem related sites too and the only time I have ever seen the complaint you mention in the sites I visit, was from you TL.
I notice you sem to be super critical when any thing to do with Richard Wise comes up on PS. Recently you were even advising him he should learn how to use a camera and honestly TL, your own pictures are often far from clear - not a problem for me until you start advising others to do what you yourself could do. As a buyer of Richard's stones perhaps I too am being defensive and so I understand your feelings about the generalization 'ebay "junk"' and you won't hear it from me.

 

[T L]

I also notice Richard mentions his book often but it doesn't bother me but if you think it is so unfair to other vendors the correct procedure would be to take it up with the forum Moderators.
Although I don't post in them, I do hang out on a couple of other gem related sites too and the only time I have ever seen the complaint you mention in the sites I visit, was from you TL.
I notice you sem to be super critical when any thing to do with Richard Wise comes up on PS. Recently you were even advising him he should learn how to use a camera and honestly TL, your own pictures are often far from clear - not a problem for me until you start advising others to do what you yourself could do. As a buyer of Richard's stones perhaps I too am being defensive and so I understand your feelings about the generalization 'ebay "junk"' and you won't hear it from me.

Klewis,
Richard has his groupies around here, and they are always defensive when it comes to him, so when I do talk about Richard in not so perfect a light, I do ruffle some feathers, I know that. You will never ever find me vehemently defending a vendor if someone finds questionable information about them, even those vendors I buy from. I am very neutral and I do not claim to favor anyone in such a 100% blind manner on this board. I wouldn't be doing people a service if I did that. I do not believe I am critical of Richard Wise, but I will question ANY vendor that I think states questionable information, or that I need clarification on. Richard has made some comments on this board today that I really think need explaining. For example, since you do mention photos. He has said in the past that he uses one of the best photographers in the world, but claims the cc sapphire is the incorrect color in the photo. That makes absolutely no sense to me.

By the way, the comments or complaints about Richard Wise on the other gemological site were not initiated by me. In fact, I think I only mentioned him once after someone did complain about his "book hawking." I do think it's unfair to other vendors, but it's up to the "Pricescope powers that be" to decide that, not me.

As for my photography skills, I admit, they stink. I think the only advice I would give, or have given to Richard regarding his photography, is to get a better photographer or learn how to take photos better, but I don't think I ever told him how to take photos (did I?). As I do not sell gems, I don't think it's as important for someone like me to take great photos. I was simply advising Richard, that good photography is an important selling point from a consumer standpoint, and most people would agree I think. I believe he needs to get better photographers and offer to take more photos of gems when people request them. He has refused to do the latter.

I will say that Richard has always been cordial to me, and I believe I have been to him. We have had some interesting discussions on this board, and I am just trying to give him some consumer feedback most of the time, or I would like some clarification. I would hope, as a vendor, he would take the criticism on his photography, and book plugs, as a consumer giving an opinion. If I were a vendor, I would want consumer feedback. Many vendors do come here for that purpose in order to better themselves. No vendor is above getting critiqued.

 

[klewis]

I also notice Richard mentions his book often but it doesn't bother me but if you think it is so unfair to other vendors the correct procedure would be to take it up with the forum Moderators.
Although I don't post in them, I do hang out on a couple of other gem related sites too and the only time I have ever seen the complaint you mention in the sites I visit, was from you TL.
I notice you sem to be super critical when any thing to do with Richard Wise comes up on PS. Recently you were even advising him he should learn how to use a camera and honestly TL, your own pictures are often far from clear - not a problem for me until you start advising others to do what you yourself could do. As a buyer of Richard's stones perhaps I too am being defensive and so I understand your feelings about the generalization 'ebay "junk"' and you won't hear it from me.

Klewis,
Richard has his groupies around here, and they are always defensive when it comes to him, so when I do talk about Richard in not so perfect a light, I do ruffle some feathers, I know that. You will never ever find me vehemently defending a vendor if someone finds questionable information about them, even those vendors I buy from. I am very neutral and I do not claim to favor anyone in such a 100% blind manner on this board. I wouldn't be doing people a service if I did that. I do not believe I am critical of Richard Wise, but I will question ANY vendor that I think states questionable information, or that I need clarification on. Richard has made some comments on this board today that I really think need explaining. For example, since you do mention photos. He has said in the past that he uses one of the best photographers in the world, but claims the cc sapphire is the incorrect color in the photo. That makes absolutely no sense to me.

By the way, the comments or complaints about Richard Wise on the other gemological site were not initiated by me. In fact, I think I only mentioned him once after someone did complain about his "book hawking." I do think it's unfair to other vendors, but it's up to the "Pricescope powers that be" to decide that, not me.

As for my photography skills, I admit, they stink. I think the only advice I would give, or have given to Richard regarding his photography, is to get a better photographer or learn how to take photos better, but I don't think I ever told him how to take photos (did I?). As I do not sell gems, I don't think it's as important for someone like me to take great photos. I was simply advising Richard, that good photography is an important selling point from a consumer standpoint, and most people would agree I think. I believe he needs to get better photographers and offer to take more photos of gems when people request them. He has refused to do the latter.

I will say that Richard has always been cordial to me, and I believe I have been to him. We have had some interesting discussions on this board, and I am just trying to give him some consumer feedback most of the time, or I would like some clarification. I would hope, as a vendor, he would take the criticism on his photography, and book plugs, as a consumer giving an opinion. If I were a vendor, I would want consumer feedback. Many vendors do come here for that purpose. No vendor is above getting critiqued.

"Groupies" has a negative connotation which I dislike, it implies a blind follower. The people I see commenting positively about Richard Wise are, but not only, his customers. Are these the "groupies" you Refer to?

 

[T L]

"Groupies" has a negative connotation which I dislike, it implies a blind follower. The people I see commenting positively about Richard Wise are, but not only, his customers. Are these the "groupies" you Refer to?

It does have a negative connotation, so I will not mention names or people. However, I dislike whenever I see a person blindly follow any vendor, and think they are above criticism, or everything they have in their inventory is perfect, and they are beyond perfection. That is just unrealistic. I've seen that happen too many times on Pricescope, and I'm not just referring to Richard Wise. I will say that the landscape here seems to be changing and I am seeing less of that blind bias (toward any vendor), and I would hope it will continue.

 

[klewis]

"Groupies" has a negative connotation which I dislike, it implies a blind follower. The people I see commenting positively about Richard Wise are, but not only, his customers. Are these the "groupies" you Refer to?

It does have a negative connotation, so I will not mention names or people. However, I dislike whenever I see a person blindly follow any vendor, and think they are above criticism, or everything they have in their inventory is perfect, and they are beyond perfection. That is just unrealistic. I've seen that happen too many times on Pricescope, and I'm not just referring to Richard Wise. I will say that the landscape here seems to be changing and I am seeing less of that blind bias, and I would hope it will continue.

Since you see the problem of generalizations when referring to ebay vendors, could you also see that by implication "Richard Wise groupie"s is also a generalization that tars many with a negative brush. Again, you could take your own advice, this time with generalizations.

 

[T L]

"Groupies" has a negative connotation which I dislike, it implies a blind follower. The people I see commenting positively about Richard Wise are, but not only, his customers. Are these the "groupies" you Refer to?

It does have a negative connotation, so I will not mention names or people. However, I dislike whenever I see a person blindly follow any vendor, and think they are above criticism, or everything they have in their inventory is perfect, and they are beyond perfection. That is just unrealistic. I've seen that happen too many times on Pricescope, and I'm not just referring to Richard Wise. I will say that the landscape here seems to be changing and I am seeing less of that blind bias, and I would hope it will continue.

Since you see the problem of generalizations when referring to ebay vendors, could you also see that by implication "Richard Wise groupie"s is also a generalization that tars many with a negative brush. Again, you could take your own advise, this time with generalizations.

In hindsight, perhaps I should have used another word besides "groupie," but I don't know how else to describe people that have blind bias towards a vendor. Unfortuantely, to me, they do exist on this board. There are some vendors that you cannot say a bad thing about, or you will get an uprising. I don't believe this is a generalization as I have observed this behavior from some, but not all, people about a particular vendor. A generalization is something that states something is true about a whole class. Not all customers of RW are groupies, nor are all Pricescopers, RW or anyone's groupies. I don't see it as a generalization as you do since this only involves a small select few. As I said, I am seeing less and less of this behavior toward any one vendor, and I find it to be refreshing. I used to be fearful of saying things about any one vendor, and now I have less fear.

Klewis,
This behavior does exist. For example, I recently had someone from Pricescope follow me to another forum and try to make my life miserable because I bought a stone from a vendor that I didn't like, and I returned it and gave my honest opinion about it. She didn't like what I said about the stone and was worried that as a result, her favorite vendor wouldn't be able to sell the gem. I mean, this could really be in another thread, but it is important to not be fearful of what you say for fear of offending someone. Everyone has a right to their opinion, but people shouldn't berate others if they do not like, or they criticize or disagree with a favorite vendor. I like Tan, but people have criticized him on this board. So be it, that's their opinion.

I had another person berate me on this forum because I said something negative about my experience with Multicolour.com. This is foolish behavior, and I do not condone it at all.

 

[Burberrygirl]

Wow, this thread has been very interesting. I think I commented early on but somehow overlooked the last six pages until now. I'll keep my opinions to myself because many people have already said pretty much what I would've.

 

[klewis]

"Groupies" has a negative connotation which I dislike, it implies a blind follower. The people I see commenting positively about Richard Wise are, but not only, his customers. Are these the "groupies" you Refer to?

It does have a negative connotation, so I will not mention names or people. However, I dislike whenever I see a person blindly follow any vendor, and think they are above criticism, or everything they have in their inventory is perfect, and they are beyond perfection. That is just unrealistic. I've seen that happen too many times on Pricescope, and I'm not just referring to Richard Wise. I will say that the landscape here seems to be changing and I am seeing less of that blind bias, and I would hope it will continue.

Since you see the problem of generalizations when referring to ebay vendors, could you also see that by implication "Richard Wise groupie"s is also a generalization that tars many with a negative brush. Again, you could take your own advise, this time with generalizations.

In hindsight, perhaps I should have used another word besides "groupie," but I don't know how else to describe people that have blind bias towards a vendor. Unfortuantely, to me, they do exist on this board.

"Groupie" describes what you are mean very well and I don't doubt they exist. I'm sure you're not referring to all who deal with Richard Wise and since you wisely won't name names, it is a very unfair generalization.

 

[empress]

Last night, trying to figure out how to put a picture in as an avatar, I reread the agreements we all made joining this forum. There are some points about not making disparaging remarks about other participants. After all, this is supposed to be about THE STONES. I couldn't figure out how to do the avatar - can you tell?

My grandmother (my mother was a different story) taught me to only say nice things about people - or be silent.

There's nothing wrong with talking about stones - but, gee, sometimes this gets well beyond criticizing the stone. Why? ( Those who do it can answer that for themselves.)

Does any dealer have stones that are less than perfect - pretty - fully saturated - (fill in the blank)? Of course. Harping on a single stone that doesn't meet your personal supposed photographic standard seems silly - and a waste of everyone's time - long after it's been rejected by the potential buyer.

I was lucky to be at the East Coast Gem Mineral Fossil Show today to hear a talk by Bill Larson from Pala. The room wasn't suited for presentations and his slideshow was almost unintelligible. You couldn't see color and in some instances, you couldn't really see the image. He talked about how many times he's been to Burma - 33, I believe. He repeated it often. It does not diminish his credibility. He brought about 250 specimens of his personal mineral collection as the feature of the show. Wow. The bad pictures do not change the quality of the minerals.

There seems to be some sort of expectation that dealers, retailers, etc. should provide you with free education. That's really why you want to see the price of high end stones, right? Then you can go and buy from some guy in Thailand that is selling on Ebay and think that his picture of a stone is similar to a picture of another high end stone and that you - a genius - are getting a deal.

I love the number of times that I have seen posts here where people say the stone is a different color and saturation than the picture (always much better, of course). Yet you want to hold dealers to a different standard...

Enough of my rant.

I am a groupie. A gem groupie....

 

[T L]

"Groupie" describes what you are mean very well and I don't doubt they exist. I'm sure you're not referring to all who deal with Richard Wise and since you wisely won't name names, it is a very unfair generalization.

I am very unclear about this statement, but since I'm talking about a small subset of people from different groups, I am unclear how this is a genearlization unless I'm generalizing about ALL groupies in general. Shall I say there are both good and bad groupies? Sorry, I love a good debate.

Since you said you're sure that I'm not referring to ALL that deal with Richard Wise, then I'm obviously not generalizing.

 

[empress]

The stones????

 

[klewis]

"Groupie" describes what you are mean very well and I don't doubt they exist. I'm sure you're not referring to all who deal with Richard Wise and since you wisely won't name names, it is a very unfair generalization.

I am very unclear about this statement, but since I'm talking about a small subset of people from different groups, I am unclear how this is a genearlization unless I'm generalizing about ALL groupies in general. Shall I say there are both good and bad groupies? Sorry, I love a good debate.

Since you said you're sure that I'm not referring to ALL that deal with Richard Wise, then I'm obviously not generalizing.

TL -my english can be confusing, sorry.
That's about all I have to say though, I think I've made my point and I'll let the thread continue!

 

[Harriet]

A few thoughts:

1. Re. Online comparison shopping:
Photography issues aside, stones are individuals. Even when I buy from one vendor, I need to see the candidates in person. I need to handle them and see if one 'screams' at me. Separately, many gems simply don't make it to the web, with or without list prices.

2. Re. Assessments by others:
If you're a confident collector, why do you need them (this doesn't apply to lab tests for treatment, e.g.)? If you feel that you need guidance, either (i) pay for it or (ii) bide your time and educate yourself.

 

[Harriet]

Klewis,
Your English is clear to me.

Empress,
You lucky thing! I would have been there, but for an emergency. Will you be at the Denver show? (Brief hijack.)

 

[Arcadian]

Empress, thanks for going into some detail about the show. Even though I'm in Massachusetts, its still 140 miles round trip for me...and one heck of a drive! I wish they had been closer.

Sorry for the threadjack all but I would dearly love to hear more about that show.


-A