Find your diamond
Find your jewelry
shape
carat
color
clarity

Burmese ruby opinions

Yay, so I’m richer ha ha.
I found mine in a tatty cardboard box removed from a 1940s wardrobe and sold “as is” a deceased estate auction.
Who knew, I certainly didn’t.IMG_0679.jpeg
 
Sydneyphoenix said:
Thank you. I don’t know about brutal, will call it candid. It is true this ruby’s not perfect but doubt I will ever want to spend USD$20-30K on a 1ct ruby, and like the colour and general vibe quite a bit, not the same as $20K ruby but not bad compared to my expectations for the price. It does look better in real life than photos I took, though perhaps not quite the level of the videos vendor took. I am not sure if I would’ve bought with the photos I took yesterday but today’s photo would have satisfied me, which is somewhat like real-life representation. Maybe I am not picky enough unlike you. But I really appreciate your feedback.

The last photo I put up today is probably close to what I saw with eyes this morning, accounting for overcast weather.



Maybe not pink sapphire but I sometimes wonder if red spinels are better value than rubies.



Thank you. I think I might keep it, not a steal but not bad for the price I paid and I like overall colour a lot in real life. A bit of cloud inclusions but acceptable to me. Some of you talked about windowing, maybe less of an issue once set in a gold ring?



I appreciate your opinion it doesn’t look good. Out of curiosity how much would you have said was a fair price for this one, given it’s 1.07ct unheated Mogok?
I am asking the question you asked and at the moment I am thinking of keeping it, don’t know if I want to spend more energy and money for a 1-carat ruby given this one met much of expectations.



I do wonder how much the valuation will come up as-obviously without telling the price to the valuer beforehand; thinking of doing it. But yes Inken told me what would’ve cost $15K 2 years ago now go for $25-30K.



Very pretty. The design I am thinking is “Narya” with solitaire ruby without accent diamonds.
Click to expand...

Honestly i probably am not the person to ask about how much I'd pay for things like origin and heated/unheated. I don't care about that stuff at all, so I frankly wouldn't pay more. But of course my preferences don't aligj with reality in this case since unheated and mogok origin commands a premium. Your own opinion is truly all that matters in this case. If you like it and are happy, keep it!
 
Sydneyphoenix said:
Thank you all. I appreciate all your opinions, especially scathing ones. I am thinking this is as close as I will get to owning a fine untreated Burmese ruby, and I am kind of okay with that (haven’t seen ultra-fine rubies but this one looks good enough to me, maybe I am not strict enough), though will think about it in coming days. Might go for with a valuation with the local jeweller boutique in Canberra to see if I paid an okay price before the return period expires. I will give individualised replies to your feedbacks later today.

Just a photo I took this morning before work, still overcast in Canberra but maybe a bit better than yesterday…
IMG_8123.jpeg
Click to expand...

Now that’s much better :)

Reading all your comments it sounds like you are happy with it and that’s really all that matters. Not everyone should be as picky as I am :mrgreen:
 
lovedogs said:
Honestly i probably am not the person to ask about how much I'd pay for things like origin and heated/unheated. I don't care about that stuff at all, so I frankly wouldn't pay more. But of course my preferences don't aligj with reality in this case since unheated and mogok origin commands a premium. Your own opinion is truly all that matters in this case. If you like it and are happy, keep it!
Click to expand...

While not fully made up my mind, thinking of keeping it, hope to see its performance under sunlight tomorrow if weather improves.

VividRed said:
Now that’s much better :)

Reading all your comments it sounds like you are happy with it and that’s really all that matters. Not everyone should be as picky as I am :mrgreen:
Click to expand...

Glad you liked the last photo better, hopefully will show its full potential under sunlight.
 
Sydneyphoenix said:
haven’t seen ultra-fine rubies but this one looks good enough to me, maybe I am not strict enough
Click to expand...

No one can tell you how picky or strict you have to be, and no one should. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and the beauty of a gem is most certainly in the eye of its owner. It's perfectly valid to make a compromise on one aspect of a gem that is less important to you in order to achieve a different aspect that carries more importance. I did something similar when I bought my ruby - I compromised on the treatment, since I didn't care about that, and a little bit on the clarity. But I got the colour I wanted, and I have loved that colour and all its faces in all different lights every single day since I got it. And now I'm glad I decided to go for it because 2 years ago it wasn't a deal, and you got what you paid for the price, but today is a different story.

If you want to see something ultra-fine in order to create some visual idea for yourself, even a simple cz will do. It will be perfect in every way, the colour will be the ideal red, the flashes will be gorgeous, it will look beautiful even in a semi-dark room. You can try it, if you want something to compare, it would be super cheap and accessible to get one. In fact, I'm all for comparing, it's a pretty useful decision making tool. If your ruby still looks beautiful in your eyes, even after gazing upon perfection, you probably have your winner.

Sydneyphoenix said:
Some of you talked about windowing, maybe less of an issue once set in a gold ring?
Click to expand...

Windowing, just like any other flaw, is a tolerance issue. I can't stand windows, some people don't mind them. Recently Guild posted a nice visual guide on windows on their IG page. Since not everyone can access IG, I'm posting the images here:

"Well-cut gemstones enhance their scarcity through superior optical performance. In the market, well-cut gemstones are relatively scarce, especially cutters should consider the shapes and size of the raw material and ensure minimal waste during the cutting process. Therefore, well-cut gemstones that retain most of their original weight are more precious in the market, generating higher demand from collectors and investors."

1732697762800.jpeg

1732697785829.jpeg

1732697826447.jpeg

1732697844043.jpeg
 
Avondale said:
Okay, found it.

Red Spinel | Loupe Troop

loupetroop.com loupetroop.com

For some people spinel scratches the itch just as well as rubies. What do you think?
Click to expand...

Tempted to make that a next purchase, resisting it at the moment!

Avondale said:
No one can tell you how picky or strict you have to be, and no one should. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and the beauty of a gem is most certainly in the eye of its owner. It's perfectly valid to make a compromise on one aspect of a gem that is less important to you in order to achieve a different aspect that carries more importance. I did something similar when I bought my ruby - I compromised on the treatment, since I didn't care about that, and a little bit on the clarity. But I got the colour I wanted, and I have loved that colour and all its faces in all different lights every single day since I got it. And now I'm glad I decided to go for it because 2 years ago it wasn't a deal, and you got what you paid for the price, but today is a different story.

If you want to see something ultra-fine in order to create some visual idea for yourself, even a simple cz will do. It will be perfect in every way, the colour will be the ideal red, the flashes will be gorgeous, it will look beautiful even in a semi-dark room. You can try it, if you want something to compare, it would be super cheap and accessible to get one. In fact, I'm all for comparing, it's a pretty useful decision making tool. If your ruby still looks beautiful in your eyes, even after gazing upon perfection, you probably have your winner.



Windowing, just like any other flaw, is a tolerance issue. I can't stand windows, some people don't mind them. Recently Guild posted a nice visual guide on windows on their IG page. Since not everyone can access IG, I'm posting the images here:

"Well-cut gemstones enhance their scarcity through superior optical performance. In the market, well-cut gemstones are relatively scarce, especially cutters should consider the shapes and size of the raw material and ensure minimal waste during the cutting process. Therefore, well-cut gemstones that retain most of their original weight are more precious in the market, generating higher demand from collectors and investors."

1732697762800.jpeg

1732697785829.jpeg

1732697826447.jpeg

1732697844043.jpeg
Click to expand...

Thank you so much for your detailed response, including a masterclass in windowing. Upon a closer look I am wondering if the pale bit under the crown is a light silky cloud inclusion rather than windowing; for what it’s worth the stone’s depth ratio is 74.6%, not that appropriate depth means you are free from windowing, as proportion is only a part of cutting.

Thank you also for your personal account of ruby buying and suggestions of buying red CZ for comparison. Glad that you like your ruby; similar to you colour is the biggest factor for me, followed by origin and treatment status. I made compromise on clarity, and while visible, don’t notice the white inclusions too much unless looking very close up.

I might buy a synthetic ruby or CZ indeed for comparison against ultra-fine ruby colour (or a red spinel?) but also hoping the colour performance is better under the sunlight. That will likely determine if this is a keeper but I am reasonably satisfied with this ruby.
 
I wouldn’t either. If you keep going, you will see an independent London lab report. I have resubmitted anything I have bought with that lab’s report, and it has always gotten the same results at AGL.
Bron357 said:
Yes, but I wouldn’t trust an “in house” certificate.
Click to expand...
 
Avondale said:
I'll just say this - if your preference for this ruby survives @VividRed's scathing critique, chances are you'll love it 'till the end of times. :D

@Sydneyphoenix, I apologise for derailing your thread with this next bit.



What on earth is happening with ruby prices? Do you remember that at the start of last year, when I was in the process of buying a ruby myself, you suggested one for me - a carat, untreated, honestly quite lovely? It was somewhere around 3k. Back then someone said they were being quoted only half that literally the previous year. And now we're talking 7k, and it still comes with a considerable clarity compromise. This is madness territory right now.
Click to expand...

I suspect we are entrenched in a "narrative-driven economy."

People talk about prices going up and that they will only go higher as if it were fact.

Next thing we know, people get worried and start paying absurd prices for subpar stones because the narrative says the material is valuable and "This is the best you will get....it will only get harder in the future."

There is nothing more compelling than a receding opportunity.

When we fully buy into the narrative, we act accordingly and start paying top-dollar for low-quality goods. This only validates and further reinforces the narrative - and prices continue to go up.

My stance, at this point, is to bow out of the madness.

Burmese rubies were once prized because the very finest rubies in the world came out of Mogok.

Just because the finest rubies came from Mogok however, it doesn't mean that all material that comes out of Mokok is of fine quality, beautiful or inherently valuable.

It's not. There are definitely some ugly stones that come out of Mogok. Pedigree ain't everything.

Personally, I am reticent to play into the "narrative-driven economy" any more that I already have. I'll shop for beautiful stones and, if I can't find one at a price I'm comfortable paying, I'll just do without.

....BTW, you can still find still some very nice rubellite, screaming red garnet & vividly-colored, highly fluorescent red spinel for a small fraction of the price of Mogok rubies. Sure, they're not the same. I'm still willing to bet that you can find one helluva breathtaking gem for $7k if you open yourself to the possibility of enjoying other species.

press.princeton.edu

Narrative Economics

From Nobel Prize–winning economist and New York Times bestselling author Robert Shiller, a groundbreaking account of how stories help drive economic events—and why financial panics can spread like epidemic viruses
press.princeton.edu press.princeton.edu
 
Last edited:
Planning on submitting the ruby for valuation tomorrow…
 
As @Dr_Diesel said, a label alone doesn’t mean quality.
Old Mogok Rubies, like old Kashmir sapphires had/have a unique quality together with beauty and rarity.
It’s, to my mind, weird that people place so much emphasis on origin. Treatment levels I understand, natural beauty is best, but does it really matter where it came from?
I do believe that the “best” gems, best in terms of representative of “the lore and legends” is the old material.
The problem of course with that is that the supply is only what already exists and as more and more people decide that that’s their desired gem, prices react due to supply and demand.
And the other weird thing I find is the abhorrence for lab grown material.
If visual impact, carat weight, clarity, precision cutting and preferred tone and hue exist for less than $50 a carat, why on earth are people paying thousands for bland, lack lustre natural gems?
Us humans are just weird. You could have a ring just as beautiful as the $34M plus Sunrise Ruby for probably $5,000 using a lab grown ruby and lab grown diamonds and I would challenge anyone not knowing the difference to tell the difference.
I might feel special and smug knowing I’m wearing the worlds most valuable Ruby but looking down at it on my hand the lab version will look just as pleasing to the eye.
When people have more money than sense they are wasteful in my opinion.
Remember that Banksy art piece that was sold for $1.4M originally, it was put then through a shredder and afterwards resold for over $25M!
Seriously.
 
Dark room photo with flashes from the phone camera.

IMG_8172.jpegIMG_8170.jpeg
 
Are you taking your pics through the glass lid of the gem jar? If so, you might want to take a few photos of it sitting on your hand. That would be more representative of how one would see it if set in jewelry
 
minousbijoux said:
Are you taking your pics through the glass lid of the gem jar? If so, you might want to take a few photos of it sitting on your hand. That would be more representative of how one would see it if set in jewelry
Click to expand...

No, the ruby is sitting above the plastic lid of the box. But thank you for the advice on taking shots sitting on the hand. It’s pouring heavy rain in Canberra at the moment…
 
Sydneyphoenix said:
Recommendation is now $25-30K USD, for example a stone he/she sold recently for $28K…
www.enhoerning-jewelry.com

1.08 ct Unheated Burma Ruby, Mogok, Pigeon's Blood Red, GRS/GIA — Enhoerning Jewelry

www.enhoerning-jewelry.com www.enhoerning-jewelry.com
Click to expand...

Wow... the saturation is extraordinary. Are you looking for top color? And does is have to be Burmese? Because Mozambique rubies from the Maninge Nice region can be quite stunning. They're generally less pink and a truer red, but with vivid saturation and strong fluorescence... and oftentimes a much better price tag.
 
Autumn in New England said:
Wow... the saturation is extraordinary. Are you looking for top color? And does is have to be Burmese? Because Mozambique rubies from the Maninge Nice region can be quite stunning. They're generally less pink and a truer red, but with vivid saturation and strong fluorescence... and oftentimes a much better price tag.
Click to expand...

Good colour, enough for GRS vivid/pigeon blood red is the aim. Have bought a 1.07ct stone above but have until tomorrow to decide whether to return it.

Mozambique rubies are beautiful, just many of them do not have good fluorescence, and those with decent fluorescence have a premium like Burmese anyway.
 
Hmmm.
It’s got a silk cloud right in the centre so its facets aren’t reflecting well and making it look hazy (hence the thought it was photographed through the gem jar lid).
That not withstanding, it is a lovely colour but the difference between this one and the one sold for $28k is a lot.
An extra $20k? Not convinced of that but the issue is that there obviously isn’t alot of high quality material around hence the eye watering prices.
If you don’t really love it I’d return it and keep looking and waiting for the one.
 
FWIW my eyes don’t see a huge difference between your ruby and the $28k one. I think there is an uneven edge on yours compared to the $28k. The $28K is a better colour but both stones have windows and the $28k is also fairly dull (I don’t think rubies are supposed to sparkle so I don’t think this is an issue).

Even if you coughed up another $21K you’re not getting much more imo.

I would just go full on Rubellite but that’s me! I’m running wild with heated blue sapphires right now :lol-2:
 
Bron357 said:
Hmmm.
It’s got a silk cloud right in the centre so its facets aren’t reflecting well and making it look hazy (hence the thought it was photographed through the gem jar lid).
That not withstanding, it is a lovely colour but the difference between this one and the one sold for $28k is a lot.
An extra $20k? Not convinced of that but the issue is that there obviously isn’t alot of high quality material around hence the eye watering prices.
If you don’t really love it I’d return it and keep looking and waiting for the one.
Click to expand...

Yeah base colour is lovely but silky clouds are holding its performance back. If I was to return it lose USD $800 I paid on import fees to Australia but that should be considered a tuition fee in appraising ruby.

mellowyellowgirl said:
FWIW my eyes don’t see a huge difference between your ruby and the $28k one. I think there is an uneven edge on yours compared to the $28k. The $28K is a better colour but both stones have windows and the $28k is also fairly dull (I don’t think rubies are supposed to sparkle so I don’t think this is an issue).

Even if you coughed up another $21K you’re not getting much more imo.

I would just go full on Rubellite but that’s me! I’m running wild with heated blue sapphires right now :lol-2:
Click to expand...

Thanks for your feedback. Yes the one I got seems to have a couple of chips on girdle that’s visible face-up. Surprised this one had a windowing given depth of 75% but guess suboptimal cutting, or maybe cutting is fine and pale area in the centre may be due to silky clouds. Whereas the USD $28K one from Inken had 51% depth ratio so some windowing isn’t surprising. But as I said baseline colour is just lovely for the one I got.

Why are you going heated sapphires, unlike rubies no-heat sapphires are quite affordable, unless going for big stones?
 
Last edited:
Sydneyphoenix said:
Yeah base colour is lovely but silky clouds are holding its performance back. If I was to return it lose USD $800 I paid on import fees to Australia but that should be considered a tuition fee in appraising ruby.



Thanks for your feedback. Yes the one I got seems to have a couple of chips on girdle that’s visible face-up. Surprised this one had a windowing given depth of 75% but guess suboptimal cutting, or maybe cutting is fine and pale area in the centre may be due to silky clouds. Whereas the USD $28K one from Inken had 51% depth ratio so some windowing isn’t surprising. But as I said baseline colour is just lovely for the one I got.

Why are you going heated sapphires, unlike rubies no-heat sapphires are quite affordable, unless going for big stones?
Click to expand...

Affordable is a relative term. We’re still talking thousands of dollars for a small gem. Not everybody can or wants to spend that kind of money ;)
 
Also, not everyone cares for heated vs unheated, especially when heated gives you so many more options to choose from. If one were to limit themselves to unheated, they’d quickly discover a reality not to dissimilar to unheated rubies. Top colour is difficult to find and often comes with other compromises.
 
VividRed said:
Affordable is a relative term. We’re still talking thousands of dollars for a small gem. Not everybody can or wants to spend that kind of money ;)
Click to expand...

Avondale said:
Also, not everyone cares for heated vs unheated, especially when heated gives you so many more options to choose from. If one were to limit themselves to unheated, they’d quickly discover a reality not to dissimilar to unheated rubies. Top colour is difficult to find and often comes with other compromises.
Click to expand...

Fair points. Yes good colour in unheated rubies certainly come with compromises in most cases.
 
Sydneyphoenix said:
Why are you going heated sapphires, unlike rubies no-heat sapphires are quite affordable, unless going for big stones?
Click to expand...

I have a 14 carat lighter non heat and an 8+ carat (Lotus cornflower) non heat. Projects are purely for practical use now and the lower the price the better as I use them for rummage rings hence the heat/no heat is the easiest condition to get rid of!
 
mellowyellowgirl said:
I have a 14 carat lighter non heat and an 8+ carat (Lotus cornflower) non heat. Projects are purely for practical use now and the lower the price the better as I use them for rummage rings hence the heat/no heat is the easiest condition to get rid of!
Click to expand...

Good point. Your sapphire rings are lovely.

Okay after much consideration have returned the 1.07ct ruby to the vendor, the clarity issues meant while I like the stone a lot wasn’t confident I will love it forever. This has been a learning experience, and I know what kind of colour, clarity and cut parameters I should look for. As soon as I get the refund for the ruby I returned, I will be hunting for another ruby.
 
Sydneyphoenix said:
Good point. Your sapphire rings are lovely.

Okay after much consideration have returned the 1.07ct ruby to the vendor, the clarity issues meant while I like the stone a lot wasn’t confident I will love it forever. This has been a learning experience, and I know what kind of colour, clarity and cut parameters I should look for. As soon as I get the refund for the ruby I returned, I will be hunting for another ruby.
Click to expand...

Probably for the best.
It’s too much money to spend to not love it.
I’ve always found the journey to the treasure more fun than the end result.
Keep your eye open for any auctions or other sources like 1st Dibs etc because the right ruby might be set in an antique ring, brooch or pendant.
Even watch eBay, my favourite hunting ground, with time and patience treasures do turn up so keep your eyes open.
If I see anything suitable, I like a search project, I’ll post it up for you.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
GET 3 FREE HCA RESULTS JOIN THE FORUM. ASK FOR HELP

Featured Topics

Jewelry Blog
PriceScope-Concierge-Ad
Find prime cuts.
Top